AI and PCT: Some Thoughts

RenegadeRows

RenegadeRows

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
This is a contreversial topic. I'm going to give my thought and opinions, then I want others to chime in with experiences and thoughts as well. This is by no means a FAQ or fact, but I hope we will come to some conclusion regarding this.

Why AI during cycle?
Estrogen is high during PCT. AI kills estrogen. Anything else? Seriously though. Who wants to be bloated, full of estrogen waiting to attack once you stop the nolva. becuase theres gonna be a plethora of estrogen waiting to get at your receptors once you stop. Nolva will increase test and therefor estrogen. That's why people mistake estrogen bloat on Nolva for Gyno. "My nolva isn't working!!!" No. Your just holding water. Even if your test / estrogen level has balanced, there is still excess estrogen from the first week of your cycle. AI's will limit the risk of gyno forming, bloating and other unwanted sides.

I was 3 days into a PCT using 120mg Toremefine and started to develop gyno (it was really water holding in my chest but looked gross.) I consulted Dr D and he recommended I start a high AI regiment immediately. The "gyno" went away.

When to start an AI?
I would say 3 days in. AI's kill aromatase, not estrogen. Once your nolva starts working, it's the best time to introduce an AI. This will boost strength, test, limit estrogen and help you keep gains. It's a little premature to start the day you start Nolva, but once your body produces test and starts producing aromatase, it's a good bet to start.

How much?
If your running an aromatizing compound, you may want to run a low dose throughout cycle. But during PCT, I recommend this:

CHOOSE YOUR WEAPON
Week 2: 50mg ATD / 600mg 6oxo / 200mg 6bromo
Week 3: 50mg ATD / 600mg 6oxo / 200mg 6bromo
Week 4: 25mg ATD / 300mg 6oxo / 150mg 6bromo
Week 5: (stop nolva and continue dosing week 4)

At this point one or two weeks would be alright, but its better to stop dosing and let your body readjust. Since the products I listed are suicide inhibitors you SHOULDNT have a problem with rebound but its good to keep a few caps around to dose EOD or a little nolva to dose (10mg) JUST IN CASE

The thing to remember is ESTROGEN IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, but you need her to complete the job (health and muscle gains.) The idea is to surpress it, not annihilate it. I strongly recommend you not use an non-steroidal inhibitors such as Letro, as it's too much for PCT. Your basically doing the opposite you hope to acheive during PCT which is to balance your hormones while minimizing ill sides.

----

Regardless of your views on AI during PCT, I have found increased gains and less sides during PCT. The one caution I warn you is if your running an anti-estrogen compound such as Epidrol, supressing estrogen for 8+ weeks theres a risk of rebound so be wary in the coming weeks and have emergency stash on hand.

Renegade Digital

PS some people run it inversely. I find nothing wrong with this view, but don't adhere to it myself. The main thing is you have some sort of AI during PCT.
 
dmangiarelli

dmangiarelli

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
The only problem I have with this is that you cannot make a blanket recommendation like this without stressing you need blood work to see where your estrogen and test levels are so you can gauge the best compounds to use during PCT.

From my last cycle, Bold/P-Plex/Trena I assumed that since I used compounds that aromatize my estrogen would be high but it was low (no AI on cycle). Had I started in on an AI right after my cycle I most likely would have suffered an unsuccessful PCT due to low estrogen levels and even more suppression on top of that with an AI. Not to mention the fact that I would have shot SHBG through the roof.

Bottom line is, GET BLOOD WORK DONE!
 

dcall7

New member
Awards
0
with the superdrol craze going on right now, whats your take on serm+ai/atd for sdrol pct? obviously im asking in light of rebound gyno.
 
RenegadeRows

RenegadeRows

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
with the superdrol craze going on right now, whats your take on serm+ai/atd for sdrol pct? obviously im asking in light of rebound gyno.
I beleive starting an AI during week 3-4 and overlapping would be a good idea, but always have some on hand a few months down the road.
 

CDONDICI

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
From everything I have read I think a solid PCT if your using a SERM and an AI would look something like this.

Say your going with nolva and atd (which I wouldn't recommend for PCT bc of libido issues, but just for example)

Week 1 Nolva 40
Week 2 Nolva 30
Week 3 Nolva 20 ATD 25 mg
Week 4 Nolva 10 ATD 50 mg
Week 5 ATD 50 mg
Week 6 ATD 25 mg

Maybe add in a quality Test booster and other supports and you're good to go.
 
pistonpump

pistonpump

Banned
Awards
2
  • Established
  • Legend!
200mg of 6bromo? that seems like a god awful amount...

i thought 75mg was a high end dose...never heard of someone going 200mg.
 
RenegadeRows

RenegadeRows

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
200mg of 6bromo? that seems like a god awful amount...

i thought 75mg was a high end dose...never heard of someone going 200mg.

Maybe I'm confused. 50mg of bromo in hyperdrol, you take 4 caps per day ... thats 200mg, right?
 
Brian5225

Brian5225

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Okay, I also didn't see Formestane mentioned, thats a favorite among a lot of people. How would someone dose that? Also, I see a large occurrence of ATD in posts, but from what I've read, ATD will also block androgen receptors, am I wrong? If I'm not, how would this effect PCT? I would think it would bring about bad effects and make it hard to gain anything.
 
dmangiarelli

dmangiarelli

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
Okay, I also didn't see Formestane mentioned, thats a favorite among a lot of people. How would someone dose that? Also, I see a large occurrence of ATD in posts, but from what I've read, ATD will also block androgen receptors, am I wrong? If I'm not, how would this effect PCT? I would think it would bring about bad effects and make it hard to gain anything.
I believe if you have a low estro count at the end of a cycle and use ATD it will cause the increased test to bind to SHBG? Anyhow, SHBG levels rise which is not good in PCT.
 
building mass

building mass

New member
Awards
0
formestane decrease SHBG, upregulates HTPA, and increase igf-1 by a significant amount. I think formestane is a great AI choice for PCT. (Yes it does convert to 4-hydroxy-test but it is still extremly mild and not suppressive.)
 
pistonpump

pistonpump

Banned
Awards
2
  • Established
  • Legend!
formestane decrease SHBG, upregulates HTPA, and increase igf-1 by a significant amount. I think formestane is a great AI choice for PCT. (Yes it does convert to 4-hydroxy-test but it is still extremly mild and not suppressive.)
and how would you reccommend it be dosed in PCT?
 
building mass

building mass

New member
Awards
0
Depends on weight but, inversed to serm. So start the AI low and serm high. Finish with the AI high and the serm low.
 
building mass

building mass

New member
Awards
0
Well for TD formestane I would do 20/40/60/80
 
RenegadeRows

RenegadeRows

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
No taper back down afterwards? Does this not leave a good chance of estro rebound?
Dr D said that there was no chance of rebound with a suicidal inhibitor. I'd still taper it personally, though.
 
thundergod

thundergod

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Well for TD formestane I would do 20/40/60/80
Are you quite sure on these dosages? They seem crucially low to me. Are these dosages for a once per day application? 20 and 40 mg. of transdermal formestane per day seems really low to me. I usually go 40 mg. twice per day (12 hours apart)at the beginning of PCT and then bump it up to 60 mg. twice per day for the latter 2 weeks. This yeilds 80 mg. per day the first 2 weeks and 120 mg. per day the last 2 weeks. Then I ramp it back down to 20 mg. twice per day (total of 40 mg. per day) for 2 extra weeks after PCT. Am I using too much AI here?:think: I don't want to use too much, eradicate estrogen, or just plain 'ol waste money. Someone critique this for me please! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:
 
RenegadeRows

RenegadeRows

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Are you quite sure on these dosages? They seem crucially low to me. Are these dosages for a once per day application? 20 and 40 mg. of transdermal formestane per day seems really low to me. I usually go 40 mg. twice per day (12 hours apart)at the beginning of PCT and then bump it up to 60 mg. twice per day for the latter 2 weeks. This yeilds 80 mg. per day the first 2 weeks and 120 mg. per day the last 2 weeks. Then I ramp it back down to 20 mg. twice per day (total of 40 mg. per day) for 2 extra weeks after PCT. Am I using too much AI here?:think: I don't want to use too much, eradicate estrogen, or just plain 'ol waste money. Someone critique this for me please! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:
From Neo's form faq
- I personally see almost immediate results with as low as 20mg/dose at 2x/day
The post quoted is actually a good dosing scheme for PCT though.
 
thundergod

thundergod

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Well for TD formestane I would do 20/40/60/80
Are these once per day dosages or twice per day? For instance, did you mean 20 mg. twice per day, then 40 mg. twice per day, and so on.....? Thanks. I don't want to overuse my AI's. THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:
 
building mass

building mass

New member
Awards
0
I would only dose it once a day in morning personally. Although estro is higher at night formestane is a mild PH and dosing it in the morning lessenes the chance of suppression.
 

andreas

New member
Awards
0
hey what pct would anyone would recomend for h drol am very confused some say take nolva other say nolva is not needed for such a mild steroid what do u think?
I bought perct PCT from ax ?
 

Similar threads


Top