8 weeks in Anadrol and 500mg test e cycle(pics)

manifesto

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As fast as salt intake goes. Your overthinking it....just eat a fast food burger from time to time and you will be good on sodium
 
Smont

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What’s your guys opinion on salt? I feel like ever since I start cutting my calories I’ve been eating heavier amounts of salt. Popcorn, I’ll throw pink Himalayan salt on it, pickles have so much sodium, drinking Zero calorie drinks with sodium. Would this hinder fat loss or dehydrate me? I feel like it helps keep me feeling full (stomach and muscles) while on lower calories. Would it just make me hold water and not make me look as good? When I cut out the salt will the water shed?
I put salt on almost everything when I'm at home. I probably take in around 4000 to 5000mg per day
 
MrKleen73

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So if your macros are 2000, you spend all day catabolic, your body leaching amino acids from your muscle, yes you burn fat faster too but basically starve yourself all day then eat 2000 calories in a small window, sounds like a eating disorder. Ppl can come out with all these stupid fad diets or whatever but at the end of the day, there's a reason the majority of top athletes at whatever there sport be, or the large majority of all successful bodybuilders eat there 4 to 8 meals evenly spaced through the day. Because it works best.
Fasting is most definitely catabolic all day, any form of fat loss due to caloric deficit is catabolic. Catabolism means the break down of tissue for energy. You can not lose fat without being catabolic. However fasting provides protein sparing catabolism as to where simple caloric restriction does not. This has been proven in studies and is programmed into our biology. The differences are not huge but this has been proven.

You are correct for most performance based athletes and definitely body builders in the process of trying to build lean mass multiple spaced out meals a day is superior. Anything beyond 4 only benefits in aiding digestion. MPS is increased from protein feedings however it has to be during a lower protein blood levels to really provide a spike in MPS which doesn't happen for about 4 hours after a feeding. Not dissing 5-8 meals a day but there is no more improvement on MPS, and arguably a slight decline in overall MPS with too frequent of feedings however nitrogen retention is often higher. The additional growth in that situation comes more from being able more comfortably to maintain the caloric surplus required for growth. Now for someone on gear it doesn't really matter because their MPS is already at a super physiological level from the gear so they can eat all day baby!!! For a natty though... 3-4 meals is going to provide a slightly higher level of MPS.

For performance purposes, having a fast supply of energy in the blood stream at any time of high performance is known to increase performance levels so one could A. eat regularly throughout the day, or B, break their fast with easily digestible meal an hour or so before their workouts or performance based event. I would think for an athlete eating regularly throughout the day is going to be the superior here.

You are also correct that many can develop disordered eating from fasting, or more to the point people with disordered eating are more likely to gravitate toward intermittent fasting. However to be honest most people do not have a healthy relationship with food including those eating massive amounts of calories over many meals a day.

And natural gh and testosterone boosts stay within the "normal" ranges which provides no benefits to muscle growth. And even if it did. What use do you think your body has for extra gh and whatever other hormones when it does not have the raw materials to build muscle or maintain muscle in the first place. It's like saying I got 500hp motor in a car with no gas
Yes gh and testosterone stay within normal ranges but GH levels stay at high normal ranges much longer while fasting. GH and lack of insulin and high glucagon levels all go hand in hand during fasting which protects protein and directs catabolism toward fat specifically. This is a well known scientific fact.

Now during intense physical activity while fasting there is often a mix of both protein and lipid catabolism because the fats ATP production is slower than say glutamine being broken down to create ATP. Glutamine being the number 1 amino that is broken down during this as it is the easiest to create ATP from. Also very easy to replace as glutamine is mostly stored in muscle more than being a part of the actual contractile tissue. Hence people glutamine loading to increase muscle volume and density. However intense physical activity ALWAYS causes catabolism no matter if fed or not. All hard workouts are catabolic, the adaptations following are what is anabolic.

So there is more to it than what you are simplifying it down to with your admittedly convincing but incorrect analogy. The muscles have stored energy in the form of glycogen, and lipids the fat has stored energy in the form of lipids. Both are the equivalent of "gas tanks". The glycogen stores will not have been completely emptied because the hormonal balance alongside low intensity activity will result in most energy coming from fat stores. So the glycogen will still be available for the intense workouts. Besides the point of fasting portion is muscle sparing fat loss, not muscle building. The muscle building for someone doing intermittent fasting is during the feeding window and the several hours after while digesting which is often during rest/sleep when most growth happens. Now granted they are still not getting in as many MPS stimulating meals, basically losing 2 of the 4 majors for the day. However they are also not lowering nitrogen balance as much throughout the day as someone practicing regular multiple meal caloric restriction.

You ask what would the use be? To manipulate hormones during a deficit to spare muscle tissue. That is really about it, other than that it being a lot more convenient for many it allowing some more satisfying or caloric dense options is another reason. Not saying pie and crap cheeseburgers which is how some choose to try to use it. Most often unsuccessfully. Again I agree that is disordered but in the same manner as those having pie, pizza and burgers regularly in their bulking diets.

If your goal is to grow or gain muscle mass the most efficiently you need at least 3-4 meals a day. That is just that... However when cutting or recomping there a plenty benefits to intermittent fasting. However it needs to be done correctly. People talk about IF as if it was a diet, but intermittent fasting is a feeding schedule not a diet. If it works for your goals and is more convenient for someone and easier to adhere to then it is the right one for them. However they should not convince themselves that it is magical or that it is as good for muscle building as multiple feedings spread out throughout the day. It's strengths and benefits lend themselves to recomp and or cutting. I would also not recommend it to someone with a relatively fast metabolism. Although they often do not need any assistance with leaning up so why they would be looking into it I do not know.


What’s your guys opinion on salt? I feel like ever since I start cutting my calories I’ve been eating heavier amounts of salt. Popcorn, I’ll throw pink Himalayan salt on it, pickles have so much sodium, drinking Zero calorie drinks with sodium. Would this hinder fat loss or dehydrate me? I feel like it helps keep me feeling full (stomach and muscles) while on lower calories. Would it just make me hold water and not make me look as good? When I cut out the salt will the water shed?
If you are drinking enough and getting in enough potassium it is only going to benefit you so long as you are not sodium sensitive. Which most people are not.

I put salt on almost everything when I'm at home. I probably take in around 4000 to 5000mg per day
Yeah salt gets a bad rep just because maybe 2% of the population has a problem with it... For an athlete higher levels equal better hydration, joint lubrication, and performance.
 
loganyy

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12/20
Shoulders & triceps-

Warmup:
20% incline 2.5 speed 10 minutes

Rep scheme for workout:
4 seconds down - 1 second up(4:1)

smith BB military press seated:
95 1x16 115 2x12 155 1x10 135 1x12

Standing DB lateral raise:
20 1x?(Lost count, to focused on the set) 15 1x13 10 2x12(long hold and slower dicentric)

Standing Upright barbell row:
40 1x12 50 2x12 60 1x12

DB shoulder press seated:
45 2x12 (switched to standing) 1x8

Face pulls/superset w DB shrugs:
FP:50 1x12 - 80 1x10 - 65 2x12
Shrug: 45 1x16 1x16 1x30- 90 1x10

Triceps:
Cable Rope extensions:
80 1x12 50 2x? (Superset Switch to behind head) didn’t count, just did 10-15 then switch to behind the head for 6-8 more reps)

Assisted Dips:(tricep focused)
1x15 100lb assist

Chest fly machine:
110 2x12 slow controlled with squeeze

Cool down/cardio:
20 minutes 20% incline 2.2 MPH

Kind of sloppy format but this is what my shoulder-based pushed day looks like. Then later in the week I do
chest, light shoulders, triceps.
I don’t do real delts on shoulder day, I do them on back day. I also do traps on back day sometimes. But usually my split looks like this:

Chest/triceps/shoulders
Legs
Off
back/rear delts/biceps
Shoulders/triceps/chest
Off
Improvement(arm, trap, calf, serratus)etc.
Legs
Off day
repeat

2 on 1 off. Cardio is everyday, abs are often on an off day.
Today was more of a volume day. My next heavy day will either be heavy back or legs.
Let me know if you guys like these logs, I’ll keep them coming if people like to read them.
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Shoulder and triceps pumped.
Morning weight=207.
Today felt good. I went off my diet yesterday for the first time in a week just to keep sanity, and keep Metabolism going, but now I’m right back at it, low carbs clean food. Let’s get it.
 
loganyy

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Also, Wednesday I did some deadlifts. 2 sets of 405 for 2, 3 sets of 5 with 365, then drop down to 315 and hit that for a set of 10. Felt great.
View attachment 189408
205.8 with clothing on. I might be losing to fast or just shedding water
 
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MrKleen73

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Also, Wednesday I did some deadlifts. 2 sets of 405 for 2, 3 sets of 5 with 365, then drop down to 315 and hit that for a set of 10. Felt great.
View attachment 189408
205.8 with clothing on. I might be losing to fast or just shedding water
Your look is improving for sure. As for the weight, didn't you cut out a lot of carbs? I feel like that is what I remember you saying. If so then a drop of 7-10lbs in a week or two is not a big deal when you have a lot of muscle. Your are not going to be losing muscle at 2500 calories with all the SARMS and a TRT dose. Can't remember if you stopped them or not. Either way it is unlikely you are losing muscle if getting in 2500 calories. Your energy expenditure is not through the roof so you should be pretty solid.
 
loganyy

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Your look is improving for sure. As for the weight, didn't you cut out a lot of carbs? I feel like that is what I remember you saying. If so then a drop of 7-10lbs in a week or two is not a big deal when you have a lot of muscle. Your are not going to be losing muscle at 2500 calories with all the SARMS and a TRT dose. Can't remember if you stopped them or not. Either way it is unlikely you are losing muscle if getting in 2500 calories. Your energy expenditure is not through the roof so you should be pretty solid.
I’m at or below 2500 calories a day, low carb, and most of the carbs I eat are filled with fiber or are fruit. Protein is high and moderate fat. No more sarms everyone convinced me to come off. I’m on 125mg of test E a week.
 
Smont

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I’m at or below 2500 calories a day, low carb, and most of the carbs I eat are filled with fiber or are fruit. Protein is high and moderate fat. No more sarms everyone convinced me to come off. I’m on 125mg of test E a week.
Stick with that, I'd also increase cardio over cutting calories to start. You don't wanna end up at like 1800 calories then starting to add cardio, it will be miserable.
 
loganyy

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385 for 3 deadlift today. Gonna stop going heavy on those. I know I’ll snap something if I keep this trend up.
Adjustments.JPG

Had a sh*ty back day because I’m not at my home gym and i started getting text messages from people filled with drama and it just messed with my mood. I’ll get back at it Monday.
 
manifesto

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Hopefully Logan doesnt mind, but I have a diet related question for you guys. I figured it is info that can benefit most of us...

I have been on restricted calories for quite some time. I have been eating at or below maintenance for what feels like forever. I will have occasional cheat meal that will push me over.

I quit drinking a couple months back as well, so that took away alot of calories. I lift consistently and do a lot of cardio. Im trying to recomp, but feel like progress is stalled big time.

I'm wondering if I have killed my metabolism by having cals restricted for so long.

Would it be a good idea to eat in a surplus for a bit to ramp it back up?

Or, am I being weak and do i need to cut cals/ increase cardio ?
 
loganyy

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Hopefully Logan doesnt mind, but I have a diet related question for you guys. I figured it is info that can benefit most of us...

I have been on restricted calories for quite some time. I have been eating at or below maintenance for what feels like forever. I will have occasional cheat meal that will push me over.

I quit drinking a couple months back as well, so that took away alot of calories. I lift consistently and do a lot of cardio. Im trying to recomp, but feel like progress is stalled big time. B

I'm wondering if I have killed my metabolism by having cals restricted for so long.

Would it be a good idea to eat in a surplus for a bit to ramp it back up?

Or, am I being weak and do i need to cut cals/ increase cardio ?
Are you on low carb? Maybe you just need a day to eat like 400-500g of carbs to fill out and feel better/look better then continue trekking on
 
manifesto

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Yeah, I typically stay between 100-200 grams...

I'm 6'0" 195 lbs
 
manifesto

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I eat around 2000 cals per day
 
manifesto

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It's just been like an ongoing thing for a couple years...I was struggling with alcohol for a bit, so i would try to keep calories low to avoid gaining too much weight.

I cant remember the last time I ate in a surplus...? I still would like to loose around 10 pounds. I've ran a couple half marathons, and lift consistently.

I just dont feel like my body is where it should be with the discipline I show; calorie wise. Food choices could be better.

I'm also on TRT.
 
loganyy

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It's just been like an ongoing thing for a couple years...I was struggling with alcohol for a bit, so i would try to keep calories low to avoid gaining too much weight.

I cant remember the last time I ate in a surplus...? I still would like to loose around 10 pounds. I've ran a couple half marathons, and lift consistently.

I just dont feel like my body is where it should be with the discipline I show; calorie wise. Food choices could be better.

I'm also on TRT.
No surplus in over 6 months? Catabolic, and metabolism is crashed.... eat more.
 
manifesto

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There has probably been the occasional surplus, due to a drinking binge or something. But nothing for longer than a day or so
 
loganyy

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There has probably been the occasional surplus, due to a drinking binge or something. But nothing for longer than a day or so
A alcohol surplus isn’t going to jump the metabolism again. Hit a nice high carb day fill out feel good and keep going.
 
Resolve10

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It's just been like an ongoing thing for a couple years...I was struggling with alcohol for a bit, so i would try to keep calories low to avoid gaining too much weight.

I cant remember the last time I ate in a surplus...? I still would like to loose around 10 pounds. I've ran a couple half marathons, and lift consistently.

I just dont feel like my body is where it should be with the discipline I show; calorie wise. Food choices could be better.

I'm also on TRT.
And how much weight did you lose in that period?

How much weight have you lost recently?
 
manifesto

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I lost about 20 lbs two years ago, and have kept them off...

I'm just struggling to get leaner. Then I started thinking back, and I've just been in a deficit or maintenance for a long time.

Never any planned refeeds or anything. I've just been on a perpetual state of "recomping" but staying the same BF
 
manifesto

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How many days should I splurge to boost metabolism a bit?
 
manifesto

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How many cals and carbs should I go for?
 
manifesto

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I'm 300 in right now and feeling pretty good
 
Resolve10

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If you have been at a long period of weight maintenance (no loss or gain) then even if you think you are in a deficit (even if that amount was once a deficit for you) then you are no longer in a deficit and in a net maintenance.

If it really has been that long of a period you may have just hit a point where you downregulated the metabolism a bit to a new "baseline" (don't assume that means you have crashed it or ruined it or anything crazy, it is just probably a bit lower than it had been).

Reversing the thermogenic adaptiveness of dieting is not always a super short fix though. Most research shows that refeeds or even short diet breaks don't fully reverse all the processes that have been down regulated by dieting (but may provide tons of great psychological benefits). Only an extended period of time in an actual surplus will fully offset these processes.

At the end of the day that is me just talking a lot with not a lot of action. I'd say take a small surplus (200-300 calories to start) above whatever you are currently maintaining on. Keep slowly adding (another couple hundred calories) if after a week or two you don't gain or gain very little. You may find that as you slowly add some of these calories you don't actually gain weight (although there may be an initial bump first couple of days, especially in water and carb storage if you increase carb intake which would be a good thing!).

As you add you should hopefully feel better and get things moving in the right direction. After a decent period of time doing this (I'd say a month at the absolute minimum) you should have a much easier transition back into losing weight when you try to go back to a deficit.

Sorry for the derail to the thread but hope this helps!
 
manifesto

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Great info thanks. I think Logan would agree that this type of information can benefit the both of us...

I had 300 grams of carbs last night (most I have had in a while) and increased calories by a couple hundred. I look leaner today, and muscles are full. Stomach slimmer. 🤷‍♂️
 
loganyy

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I’m unfortunately experiencing a side effect that I never wanted to encounter...... back hair.... there is a long annoying growth of hair on both sides of my lats. F*ck.
 

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I’m unfortunately experiencing a side effect that I never wanted to encounter...... back hair.... there is a long annoying growth of hair on both sides of my lats. F*ck.
Hahaha man i am the only sick mfer around here who likes to see more hair growth on his arms, legs and chest lol. I looked liie a damn high school teenager before cycle as far as hair growth goes.

and i swear my facial shape changed a bit. I have a more rugged face, while previously it was much more child-like, my mother also noticed and said it must be from anabolics.
 
loganyy

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Adjustments.JPG
Adjustments.JPG

Hit chest today but I thought my legs looked better then my chest. Compared to my stomach, hips, and chest, I hold barely any fat on my legs.
 
manifesto

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Looking solid
 
manifesto

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Dude, so upping my carbs and calories a little. Already looking s feeling better. Its crazy
 
loganyy

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Dude, so upping my carbs and calories a little. Already looking s feeling better. Its crazy
Yeah, I think that’s the way to go for your situation. Your body can only go so long on low carbs before you just stall progress
 
Cmseabee24

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Dude, so upping my carbs and calories a little. Already looking s feeling better. Its crazy
Vertical diet is what you want add some calories for each week to get metabolism going again then next week add 100 then next week add 100 and so on.
 
loganyy

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Does weed have an effect on gains? Before bed I like to get a little rocked, but I don’t let it affect what I eat and how I diet. I also do it sometimes(not often) before the gym. I might just sound like a pothead but I swear it gets me a better mind muscle connection when I do it. I just hate coming home after the gym and being in that dazed state of mind after words from the weed wearing off. I’ve read it burns calories because of an acceleration in heart rate(similar to caffeine). But is there any evidence it raises estrogen, decreases hypertrophy, or does something detrimental to the gains?
 

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Does weed have an effect on gains? Before bed I like to get a little rocked, but I don’t let it affect what I eat and how I diet. I also do it sometimes(not often) before the gym. I might just sound like a pothead but I swear it gets me a better mind muscle connection when I do it. I just hate coming home after the gym and being in that dazed state of mind after words from the weed wearing off. I’ve read it burns calories because of an acceleration in heart rate(similar to caffeine). But is there any evidence it raises estrogen, decreases hypertrophy, or does something detrimental to the gains?
Marijuana has anti-androgen (estrogenic) activity in breast tissue, so it can possibly cause or exacerbate gyno.

I don't think think it's that strong of an effect though, more people than you think blaze it up on this forum.
 
Smont

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Marijuana has anti-androgen (estrogenic) activity in breast tissue, so it can possibly cause or exacerbate gyno.

I don't think think it's that strong of an effect though, more people than you think blaze it up on this forum.
Its not gonna do anything gyno related. The effects on the anti androgen stuff is miniscule. To the original question, just about everyone I know that's big into bodybuilding or powerlifting is also a pothead, I wouldn't be concerned
 
Smont

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I actually try not to take pics often cus then I can't see changes. If I take them every week or 2 it gives me a better judgement on what has changed. I do weight myself all the time. Just out of habit when I wake up
 
MrKleen73

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As far as the carbs coming mostly from fruit and fiber then yeah most of that quick weight loss was probably water and muscle glycogen. I would not worry about losing "too fast" while on your TRT and congrats on making a great decision! Just ride the train and don't let weight loss freak you out.
 
loganyy

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IMG_3902.JPG

Haven’t weighed myself in a few days.... cant say I want to... the holidays killed my diet. A lot of traveling, a lot of food. But I’ve kept the training and protein intake consistent.
 
MrKleen73

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No worries, just fix it and move on. Did the same thing myself. Not gonna punish myself.
 
loganyy

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IMG_3936.JPG

Pics in the morning, no pump, No food , no drink, after the restroom. Can’t complain because I’ve been cheating on my diet at the 3 Christmas parties I attended. Haven’t weighed myself so I’m unsure what my BW is.
 
manifesto

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Yeah, he looks 15
 

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