1, 4 andro

[scotty2]

I noticed 1fast is having a sale on the 1,4 andro. I'm waiting for the T1 pro to be available to start my cycle. This being my first cycle, is it a good idea to include the 1, 4 andro? Will there be 1, 4 andro offered here at a similar or better price? I'm not all that familiar with the 1, 4 andro, anybody have suggestions?

 

[Chemo]

1,4 is a great oral PH that gives very lean gains. Most are happy with the results but had to ingest upwards of 600-900 mg per day (which can get very expensive). IMO, oral 1,4-andro should be used to increase appetite and transdermal *anything* to grow. Of course, *anything* should be 1-test and/or 4-AD as this is the most effective out there now...

I will be offering 1,4-DIOL precapped at 100 mg x 60 caps for $30. This is a little more expensive than what 1fast is currently selling his for two reasons:

• I could not get more than 1 kilo capped (already purchased kilos of other powders) so this drove up the price somewhat for me.
• I have decided to offer the 1,4-DIOL and not the cheaper 1,4-DIONE. It costs almost twice as much to purchase the DIOL powder and this is reflected in the price.

Also, to illicit the appetite increase this lower dose will be effective --> 1fast's 1,4 is focused on lean mass growth as a standalone PH supplement whereas mine is targeted at letting your own appetite drive your growth (plus some 1-test )

Chemo

 

[scotty2]

And if appetite is of no concern? I currently consume about 4200 cals/day and am still hungry. Should I just stick eith the T1 pro?

 

[scotty2]

Also, I noticed that it is advised to stay on 1, 4 andro for about 8 weeks. If I do T1 pro for 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 weeks on cycle, how would you suggest 1, 4 andro be included?

 

[Alpha Dog]

I have decided to offer the 1,4-DIOL and not the cheaper 1,4-DIONE. It costs almost twice as much to purchase the DIOL powder and this is reflected in the price.

Is it worth it at twice the price? I have seen it argued (by Bill L. and others) that with the case of 1,4 Ando, the dione is the better choice of the two. Big Cat argued in his original prohormone article in favor of the diol version. So whats up?

 

[Chemo]

I chose the diol modification for a few reasons...believe me...paying twice the amount for the powder was not something I wanted to do but felt it would make for a better product for the bros.

I consulted with a professor and several peers and solicited their opinions on both the dione and diol. The molecule (in general, regardless of whether it is a dione or diol) should prefer to have either a keto group at C3 or an aromatic alpha ring.

Chemo

 

[ndn diablo]

Chemo, any idea on what the conversion rate is on 1,4andro diol? or is the same as dione?

 

[Chemo]

Is anyone else having trouble with the quick reply down at the bottom of the page??

 

[dg806]

Is it not suppose to be 45%?

 

[Alpha Dog]

......The molecule (in general, regardless of whether it is a dione or diol) should prefer to have either a keto group at C3 or an aromatic alpha ring. [/B]

errrrrrr. Yea. I got it. So the diol's better.

Or no. ugggg.

OK, I have no idea what you said. Me feel not so smart anymore.

Can you dumb that statement down a bit?

 

[Matthew D]

Okay I can help with part of it bow.. the C3 carbon is the 3rd carbon in the chain that makes up 1-test and an aromatic ring is ? Okay I forgot that part from organic chem.

 

[dg806]

Ok....next question. If you buy pre-capped 1,4 say from Molecular at 100 mg/capsule. It has filler in it right? So, if you buy the powder and cap it yourself at 100mg/capsule, how much more 1,4 are you getting??? (Need to know this in case I want to cap my own, I know how many to take)

 

[curt2go]

Good question. I have lway wondered that? Talk to ya!

 

[Lifeguard]

Ok....next question. If you buy pre-capped 1,4 say from Molecular at 100 mg/capsule. It has filler in it right? So, if you buy the powder and cap it yourself at 100mg/capsule, how much more 1,4 are you getting??? (Need to know this in case I want to cap my own, I know how many to take)

I would think that you are getting 100mg/capsule regardless of the filler or not, JMO

 

[Resolute]

Ok....next question. If you buy pre-capped 1,4 say from Molecular at 100 mg/capsule. It has filler in it right? So, if you buy the powder and cap it yourself at 100mg/capsule, how much more 1,4 are you getting??? (Need to know this in case I want to cap my own, I know how many to take)

I would think the equation (beginning product-left over product)/(# of caps filled), would give you a good estimate on mg/cap.

 

[DevilSmack]

1,4-andro price

I think at four dollars a gram 1,4-andro cost too much. Heck you can buy QV Bold 200 (10ml, 200mg) for $90.00 if you know where to get it and are willing to take the risk of using illegal androgens.

 

[curt2go]

And stick a needle in your leg!!!!! Talk to ya...

 

[Lifeguard]

Re: 1,4-andro price

I think at four dollars a gram 1,4-andro cost too much. Heck you can buy QV Bold 200 (10ml, 200mg) for $90.00 if you know where to get it and are willing to take the risk of using illegal androgens.

You're my kind of guy!

 

[ndn diablo]

Ok....next question. If you buy pre-capped 1,4 say from Molecular at 100 mg/capsule. It has filler in it right? So, if you buy the powder and cap it yourself at 100mg/capsule, how much more 1,4 are you getting??? (Need to know this in case I want to cap my own, I know how many to take)

The filler is just simply inactive material that is there simply there to fill up the rest of the capsule. If your bottle says one capsule contains 100mg, then each capsule will contain 100mg active material (that is unless you bought the product from HDT).

 

[Lifeguard]

(that is unless you bought the product from HDT).

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

ROFLMFAO

Thats some funny ****!!

 

[DevilSmack]

And stick a needle in your leg!!!!! Talk to ya...

Are you scared of needles curt? Now that's HARDCORE! Just kidding bro!

 

[DevilSmack]

Re: Re: 1,4-andro price

You're my kind of guy!

If we could just get a bootlegger like RSOC to make us a boldenone product with a shorter ester like propionate that would rock! Bro, check out the new article on Anabolic Extreme "INITIAL THOUGHTS ON SHORT CYCLING" Best article I have ever read on AAS in a long time.

 

[Lifeguard]

Re: Re: Re: 1,4-andro price

If we could just get a bootlegger like RSOC to make us a boldenone product with a shorter ester like propionate that would rock! Bro, check out the new article on Anabolic Extreme "INITIAL THOUGHTS ON SHORT CYCLING" Best article I have ever read on AAS in a long time.

That's interesting...Boldenone Propionate...that would ROCK!!

I'd hit it!

 

[BrKonman]

Re: Re: Re: 1,4-andro price

If we could just get a bootlegger like RSOC to make us a boldenone product with a shorter ester like propionate that would rock! Bro, check out the new article on Anabolic Extreme "INITIAL THOUGHTS ON SHORT CYCLING" Best article I have ever read on AAS in a long time.

Agreed, I love that article. It was posted elsewhere awhile back, and it just fueled my love for 2 weekers even more.

 

[Lifeguard]

that article was badass

I'm gonna try that in a few years!

 

[Aneas]

Re: Re: Re: 1,4-andro price

If we could just get a bootlegger like RSOC to make us a boldenone product with a shorter ester like propionate that would rock! Bro, check out the new article on Anabolic Extreme "INITIAL THOUGHTS ON SHORT CYCLING" Best article I have ever read on AAS in a long time.

Its already being done by a better bottleger than gac/rsco will every be. It cost the same as regular EQ so it would be very expenisve to run a whole cycle with this.


Also $90 for QV EQ is to much.

 

[Aneas]

And stick a needle in your leg!!!!! Talk to ya...

Do you prefer bi's?

 

[Boarder1]

Also, I noticed that it is advised to stay on 1, 4 andro for about 8 weeks. If I do T1 pro for 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 weeks on cycle, how would you suggest 1, 4 andro be included?

As scotty2 had asked, what is the suggest length of use for 1,4 during a four week cycle of either T-1 or T-1 Pro. Would using the 1,4 for 6 weeks (2weeks into recovery) keep the body's test production in a complete shutdown state for the 6 weeks, or would the the cessation of the T-1 product be enough stimulus to restart the body's test production?

 

[Lifeguard]

As scotty2 had asked, what is the suggest length of use for 1,4 during a four week cycle of either T-1 or T-1 Pro. Would using the 1,4 for 6 weeks (2weeks into recovery) keep the body's test production in a complete shutdown state for the 6 weeks, or would the the cessation of the T-1 product be enough stimulus to restart the body's test production?

As long as you are giving you body an outside source of hormones it will continue to not produce any of its own...

My suggestion would be to run T-1 Pro and 1,4-andro for 6 weeks (I have a homebrewed T-1 pro and 1,4-andro) that is what I am doing.

And since estrogen will not be a problem on a cycle like this I would suggest FUZU 6 caps/day starting week 5 of your cycle

Heres my cycle:

http://www.bdcnutrition.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171&highlight=final+cycle

Check it out.

 

[DevilSmack]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 1,4-andro price

Its already being done by a better bottleger than gac/rsco will every be. It cost the same as regular EQ so it would be very expenisve to run a whole cycle with this.


Also $90 for QV EQ is to much.

Yes, I have seen QV Bold for as low as $55.00. Please sent me a private message about this "better bootlegger than RSOC" if you would. The product would be great for short cycles.

 

[bigbadboss101]

Molecular makes Boldione. Who make Boldiol? Looking at 1AD and 1,4 andro, what is the advantage of each over the other? I have read the big cat article. Boldione is supposed to help increase red blood cells, and help endurance. It might be more androgenic?

 

[DevilSmack]

No, Boldione is less androgenic than androst-1-ene(1-test) or 1-Ad and 4-AD.

 

[Supa Freek 420]

An interesting thread on 1,4Adiol and its disadvantages...

It's scary when Pat and Bill agree, even if for different reasons.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48609&highlight=boldiol

 

[Supa Freek 420]

The previous post was in no way meant to insult your judgement Chemo, just wanted your feedback on what Pat and Bill had to say, if you, or anybody else have anything to add.

 

[Chemo]

First, let me paraphrase what they were saying and then chime in my opinion:

PA: The bioavailability should be similiar or the same between the diol and dione.
PA: 1,4-diol MAY have estrogenic activity in the unconverted form. [Chemo note: EQ or boldone is known to be a rather aromatic compound to begin with so this is no departure from reality]
Bill: 1,4-dione works well enough...WHY even consider the diol?

My opinion:
Since the parent compound is know to be rather aromatic it is no surprise that the diol (and dione) would be similiar with respect to intrinsic activity. This cannot be an argument since it applies to both equally. I firmly believe in the AA effects of the compound(s) in the UNCONVERTED forms...my experience with injected 4-AD convince me of this. If it applies to 4-AD it should also apply to 1,4. So this suggsets that both are equally bioavailable, aromatic, and somewhat active in the unconverted state. Now it comes down to which will convert to the parent compound at a faster rate. I believe that both compounds will have similiar activity and the one factor that will separate the two, in terms of effectiveness, will be enzymatic conversion to the parent compound. This is basically the 3-HSD VS 17-HSD argument at this point.

Now, keep this in mind --> the intended use of the 1,4-diol is not for the mass gaining anabolic effects but rather the appetite increase that characterizes it. I will be stacking this with a 1-test product so the lion's share of anabolic activity will be done by that...the 1,4 will give the appetite increase that will facilitate the nitrogen requirements. Also, the estrogenic activity will be a welcomed addition for overall mass gain.

Chemo

 

[deaconbill]

If I am going moderate dosing on T-1 Pro what amount of Boldione should I use daily.  Decided to add it to my cycle even though I won't begin the Boldione until one week into cycle.  Thanks.

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by deaconbill
If I am going moderate dosing on T-1 Pro what amount of Boldione should I use daily.  Decided to add it to my cycle even though I won't begin the Boldione until one week into cycle.  Thanks.

I've been on 600 mg daily for a few days now and my appetite is intense.  I'm at 6 meals and still can't get enough...that's why I'm here at 2 AM --> eating and typing

Chemo

 

[deaconbill]

Awesome.  Can't wait till mine comes in.  I'm still up too.

 

[BrKonman]

Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo


I've been on 600 mg daily for a few days now and my appetite is intense.  I'm at 6 meals and still can't get enough...that's why I'm here at 2 AM --> eating and typing

Chemo

On another post in the Cycle Length(I think?) forum, you said it only took 4 days and you had an intense appetite with the DIOL, rather than a week(in your experience) with the DIONE? Hmmmm.... very interesting. This has major promise for 2 on 2 off guys like me, who don't allow enough time, in most opinions, for 1,4 to be worthwhile. Is the standard muscle hardening occuring as well, in this short time frame? Also, could 1,4 be frontloaded to feel the effects even sooner than 4 days in? As if that wasn't soon enough

Of course, an increase in my appetite might scare the **** out of some people. It's 3 am, and of course... I'm up eating. As if the meals every 2 hours from 8 am to midnite weren't enough

 

[dg806]

Come Wednesday, I will be on 1,4 for two weeks. I have been eating like crazy. I stepped on the scales this morning and I have gained 7-8 lbs! (note: I am stacking it with super one+)

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by BrKonman
Is the standard muscle hardening occuring as well, in this short time frame? Also, could 1,4 be frontloaded to feel the effects even sooner than 4 days in?

I haven't noticed any of the vascularity and hardening effects of 1,4 but it may be masked somewhat by the high levels of 1-test.

Chemo

 

[windwords7]

My 1, 4 Andro cycle stopped as quickly as it started. Something went haywire in my sytem and I got sick. I was stacking it with 7keto. I have stopped both and now I'm on to Super ONE+ for 4 weeks.

I really want to do 1, 4 but I will have to start at lower dose and titrade up instead of going straight to 300mg doses.

 

[antonio]

So, if you do a 4 week cycle of either T1 or T1 pro and you want to stack it with 1,4 andro for how long should you run the 1,4 andro? And at what doses( 600-900???)?
Thanks

 

[windwords7]

Originally posted by antonio
So, if you do a 4 week cycle of either T1 or T1 pro and you want to stack it with 1,4 andro for how long should you run the 1,4 andro? And at what doses( 600-900???)?
Thanks

1, 4 is a PH that should be ran for as long as possible within the context of a cycle so if your cycle is 4 weeks then run it the whole time.

Your dosage depends somewhat on which 1, 4 product you buy. But at least 200mg 3 times a day seems to be the low end of the dosing scale. I would start there and build up as necessary.

 

[antonio]

1, 4 is a PH that should be ran for as long as possible within the context of a cycle so if your cycle is 4 weeks then run it the whole time.

Your dosage depends somewhat on which 1, 4 product you buy. But at least 200mg 3 times a day seems to be the low end of the dosing scale. I would start there and build up as necessary.

Thanks a lot.

Which 1,4 do you recommend?

 

[windwords7]

There are not a lot of options. You could do Boldione by Molecular and go as low as 100mg 3 times a day, or you could go with 1fast's 300mg caps.

 

[antonio]

There are not a lot of options. You could do Boldione by Molecular and go as low as 100mg 3 times a day, or you could go with 1fast's 300mg caps.

Thanks for your quick reply.

Now, If i go with boldione why only go 100 mg 3 times a day? Only 300 mgs a day????
And if i go with 1 fast's do you mean 900 mgs a day at 3 caps total?

Thanks. Hope you can clarify it for me please.

 

[windwords7]

Well there is some interesting thoughts about the dosing. Some believe that you can not get an effective benefit from only 300mg a day. There is some differing thoughts on whether or not you can only take it 2 times a day or if you have to go 3 times a day.

If you go with 1fasts you might try 2 times a day and see how it goes. That will still be 600mg a day. If that does not seem to be enough then bump it 900mg a day.

For the money, the best deal for now is 1fast. When BDC gets his in I'm sure he will be the best deal around. I'm not sure what his plans are in application of it as it is the one PH that is better taking in oral from rather than transdermal.

WW7