Trt at 23?

New guy

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I am the sams age as you op and had low t 2 years ago (checked before i went on 1st cycle), only difference is i d3cided to go to the dark side. I personally felt test levels dropping around 18 yo (loss of libido) but for few years i tried doing "everything right" (enough fat, zinc, magnesium, d3 sleep etc) didnt help. At 21 i was regressing in the gym hence i said fuk it.

If clomid didnt w9rk i am afraid nothing except trt will. If clomid didnt work you likely have primary hypogonadism. Even after 8 months on gear after clomid pct test was higher (509) than it was before cycle (300s).
So have you gotten on trt yet? Or is your test staying around that 500 level?
 
Hyde

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I do my cruise test shots with a 27g 1/2” insulin syringe in my delts, side & front. It’s just so convenient. I have done some shots in my quads but just prefer delts.

For real shots with a 25g I put my bigger oil shots in the glutes, and 1cc or less in delts and ventroglutes. Just preferences.

* You can use a 29g even, but it draws miserably slow. It’s probably less than 60 seconds, but it’s just not worth it to me when you can’t feel the 27g anyway. I do my carnitine daily with 27 even if that tells you how mild that is.
 
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New guy

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Had the call with my doc today, went over everything and he's a super cool dude that realized I had at least a little knowledge and didn't treat me like an idiot. He strongly recommended going along with TRT but that I need one more blood test between 8 and 10 AM to be completely "qualified" as my first blood test was done around noon. He said he doesn't recommend trying a second restart because of how low the odds are of a successful restart if my second blood test netted slightly less than the first. Later we went over my goals for powerlifting and he asserted that TRT would be the right choice.

I'll be going back in the next few weeks for a third (and hopefully final) blood draw and then he wants to get me on testosterone and aim for an average level of around 700 ng/dl. He said I'll have some say in the ester length and dosing protocol which is nice. The most common seems like test cyp and 100-150mg per week.

The one thing he was curious of is that my free T was 64 which was fully in range but that with my low total and the symptoms I've had that I definitely have low T due to primary hypogonadism as my pituitary function is good. With everything else in good range and no bloodwork finding an underlying cause he only has one last hail Mary and wants to check for fluctuations in my SHBG level on the last blood test.
 
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I appreciate all the input from everyone, the doc was fairly impressed with the questions I had and how thorough I was with ensuring that trt was truly the best option. All in all I'm just excited to start feeling better and be able to function normally
 
Hyde

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I’m very happy for you. You seem confident and comfortable in your decisions (in spite of the information we’ve all presented), & from experience if you know you intend to cycle AAS to compete this is a smarter safer path. Most importantly, this doctor seems like he cares about your HEALTH. He is worried about treating symptoms, not just levels. He is shooting initially at healthy longterm numbers - 700s, using 100-150mg, hopefully no AI or ancillary needed, and we wants to double check bloodwork before even continuing. And he knows your goals and isn’t dismissive of them. This isn’t some hotrod clinic in south Florida that is just trying to sell you Tren replacement & a stack of up charged gear
 

Uncle_E

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Had the call with my doc today, went over everything and he's a super cool dude that realized I had at least a little knowledge and didn't treat me like an idiot. He strongly recommended going along with TRT but that I need one more blood test between 8 and 10 AM to be completely "qualified" as my first blood test was done around noon. He said he doesn't recommend trying a second restart because of how low the odds are of a successful restart if my second blood test netted slightly less than the first. Later we went over my goals for powerlifting and he asserted that TRT would be the right choice.

I'll be going back in the next few weeks for a third (and hopefully final) blood draw and then he wants to get me on testosterone and aim for an average level of around 700 ng/dl. He said I'll have some say in the ester length and dosing protocol which is nice. The most common seems like test cyp and 100-150mg per week.

The one thing he was curious of is that my free T was 64 which was fully in range but that with my low total and the symptoms I've had that I definitely have low T due to primary hypogonadism as my pituitary function is good. With everything else in good range and no bloodwork finding an underlying cause he only has one last hail Mary and wants to check for fluctuations in my SHBG level on the last blood test.
Where did you find this doctor? Is it a clinic or your primary care/ covered by insurance?

When I asked to get my T levels checked at 35, my primary care doctor was such an @$$ hole about it, he labeled me as a drug seeker.
 
MadStax

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Where did you find this doctor? Is it a clinic or your primary care/ covered by insurance?

When I asked to get my T levels checked at 35, my primary care doctor was such an @$$ hole about it, he labeled me as a drug seeker.
Yikes! It is actually pretty common for Drs to label people as drug seekers these days. I have friends that this has happened to and they definitely aren't rec drug users.
 
Njs0416

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I’d love some opinions here.
I used to be a pretty competitive powerlifter before I starting having a hard time competing, training, and even just lifting for fun. One of my lifting partners said I had all the symptoms of low T but my doctor told me that at 20 and being so active I was crazy for thinking that. Considered doing a cycle to keep progressing but decided to wait it out. Fast forward a few months and I had to stop lifting because I was taking far longer to recover, and getting weaker no matter what I did and feeling like sh*t. Took a few months off and tried to come back, made me feel like crap and constantly lethargic again. Stopped lifting again and after a few months developed early gyno. Dropped my old doc and found one who would do bloodwork, found low T at 277ng/dl and tried an HPTA restart with clomid. Came back a month after finishing the “restart” and had 271ng/dl but my gyno was gone. All my other bloodwork was completely in range and my doc thinks I need to get on TRT. I understand the long term ramifications but would like to hear some personal opinions. I want to start lifting and competing again and would love to get rid of the sleep and rest issues and the other side effects that I’ve been dealing with. I’ve heard the stories of guys cycling too young, looking for experience with getting on TRT young. Thanks in advance.
Once you plan on running cycles I’d do it. 277 isn’t necessarily out of range, this is a reference from my recent labs. I’m at 228 however my blood was drawn late in the day, regardless it’s out of range. That’s when it’s time to consider TRT, or if you plan on cycling as you mentioned.
250 - 827 ng/dL

My doctor told me today Low T can pose the same exact health risks as High T/test cycles. If you’re constantly running on the low end, that’s interesting. Most men start high and end low during the day. I’d see an endo. Most docs can’t treat low T and even a lot of endos aren’t good with it. Most of them are extremely knowledgeable regarding diabetes especially in the US 💀, but when it comes to test it’s iffy. Treating symptoms is never a good idea, but it honestly does sound like low T. Can’t be over training, hard to do in the powerlifting realm assuming your training is structured appropriately (deloads/active rest periods). The details matter though like time of day you get blood drawn and what not. They should take an AM and PM test and see what the deal is. Luckily for me I have low T but very mild symptoms. I’ve toyed with quite a few AAS however since I was 17 years old, and I’ve always recovered extremely well. Some just have good genetics.

Just make sure it’s actual Low T if you want to continue naturally for a while. Something else could be the cause of a lot of the issues you are experiencing and you might even get a little more out of your genetic potentially if it’s what you truly want. If you do have Low T, send it brother. Totally necessary if you’re going to cycle from a health and well being standpoint, and I learned that the hard way, and my opinion is based on my own personal experiences and interactions I’ve had with my doctor. I’m a stickler when it comes to doctors too. They can’t know everything. I prefer the doctor that will tell me they are unsure and would like to get a second and even third opinion rather than bullshit me for the sake of keeping my trust, which I’m going to lose anyways when I realize my doctor is giving me an answer just because. I once had a doctor tell me it was ok to stop taking Klonopin, a powerful benzodiazepine, cold turkey. That right there told me everything I needed to know about the current state of that profession in the United States at least.
 
New guy

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I’m very happy for you. You seem confident and comfortable in your decisions (in spite of the information we’ve all presented), & from experience if you know you intend to cycle AAS to compete this is a smarter safer path. Most importantly, this doctor seems like he cares about your HEALTH. He is worried about treating symptoms, not just levels. He is shooting initially at healthy longterm numbers - 700s, using 100-150mg, hopefully no AI or ancillary needed, and we wants to double check bloodwork before even continuing. And he knows your goals and isn’t dismissive of them. This isn’t some hotrod clinic in south Florida that is just trying to sell you Tren replacement & a stack of up charged gear
He's been really great to deal with so far. He discussed that it could be an option to try another restart but that in his experience he thinks that none of the other options are going to be successful (unless the SHBG results on this next test bring up a new issue) which would bring us right back here. I was pretty worried that he would either be non-receptive of considering trt or that he would be trying to put me on several compounds which seems to be the two far ends of the spectrum that a lot of people have to deal with. The main goal is exactly what you said, trying for a healthy dose to keep my body working and not need any ancillaries which is exactly what I was hoping for. Before the call I was 95 percent ready for trt if he recommended it but with his experience and opinions, and being able to explain why he wants to do what he does, now I'm 100 percent comfortable with him taking the reigns from here.
 
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Where did you find this doctor? Is it a clinic or your primary care/ covered by insurance?

When I asked to get my T levels checked at 35, my primary care doctor was such an @$$ hole about it, he labeled me as a drug seeker.
Primary care, but a new one after my first doctor refused to take me seriously. After the first series of bloodwork though I've been dealing with the head of endocrinology instead of my doctor which is really nice
 
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Well this took a weird turn, despite my total levels being at ~270 my doc had my free test on the third blood test done and it came back at 99 pg/ml which is in range. My SHBG is at 8 nmol/l which is low as hell, my LH is 2.8mlu/l and my fsh was 5.6 mlu/l. He said that because my free test is within range and all of my other tests came back within range (besides shbg) that I must be healthy and that my symptoms must not be from low T. As such he wants me to wait until September and follow up with him to do more bloodwork and determine what it could be, because its "obviously not a testosterone issue".

I'm pretty confused because in the past he was adamant about TRT because all of my tests were normal range except total test was incredibly low. Now he doesn't think I should go after any form of TRT or restart protocol because my free test is within range. I don't know why he had a complete 180 on his opinion at all and he wont schedule an appointment until September.

I'm a little at a loss here as my sides seem to be getting worse daily. I can get 6,8,10,12 hours of sleep at night and still never wake up feeling rested. I got a full 9 hours the other day, went out riding for just 2 or three hours and when I got home I was so worn out I just took an involuntary nap. My Dad recently got on trt after dealing with similar issues to me and has said its night and day.
 
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I'm in a little pickle because insurance won't cover me starting over with a new doctor, and being in college it's out of the question to pay the exorbitant fees out of pocket to go to a trt clinic. I don't necessarily want to go on self prescribed trt without bloodwork and have to source test vials which seems to leave me with two options, one was a recommendation to run something like epi or 4 andro for a 2 month cycle and then pct, because it would be hard for my levels to be lower post pct anyways and I would feel better while on it. The second would be to try another restart, possibly with nolva instead of clomid because clomid didn't work and had some pretty crappy mental sides. I don't want to jump into some half baked scheme but I also am pretty damn frustrated and would like to start feeling normal again and being able to "function" as soon as possible.
 
Hyde

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I would try to wait the 6 weeks to September and get bloods again with this doctor. They could come back lower perhaps, and you could try pleading your case further.

If you run Nolva now you’re basically assured levels will be higher still in 6 weeks (it keeps working for a while in your system) and you won’t get on TRT.

If you cycle now and then show up you’re basically guaranteed to be shut down further (low LH) and will probably get put on TRT but you won’t really know if it was the right move. What if there is something else going on that could get glossed over if you sabotage your own levels just to get out on TRT?
 
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I would try to wait the 6 weeks to September and get bloods again with this doctor. They could come back lower perhaps, and you could try pleading your case further.

If you run Nolva now you’re basically assured levels will be higher still in 6 weeks (it keeps working for a while in your system) and you won’t get on TRT.

If you cycle now and then show up you’re basically guaranteed to be shut down further (low LH) and will probably get put on TRT but you won’t really know if it was the right move. What if there is something else going on that could get glossed over if you sabotage your own levels just to get out on TRT?
That's a good point, I'm just starting to feel like I'm getting jerked around a little bit. I don't want to miss something else that could potentially be wrong but I'm having a hard as hell time dealing with the constant lethargy, brain fog, shitty sleep, and mood swings. In September I start my final quarter of college with by far my hardest class load and I'm pretty concerned with not being able to function well enough to pass my classes.

Got any tips for how to deal with these symptoms without living off of caffeine and melatonin?
 
Hyde

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That's a good point, I'm just starting to feel like I'm getting jerked around a little bit. I don't want to miss something else that could potentially be wrong but I'm having a hard as hell time dealing with the constant lethargy, brain fog, shitty sleep, and mood swings. In September I start my final quarter of college with by far my hardest class load and I'm pretty concerned with not being able to function well enough to pass my classes.

Got any tips for how to deal with these symptoms without living off of caffeine and melatonin?
Try to use other nootropics & stimulants, and stop using melatonin (helps you get to sleep but not stay asleep, and using it messes up your endogenous melatonin hormone production creating a cycle of dependency).

Staying hydrated, taking short walks, eating decent nutrition and avoiding simple sugars that will cause big fluctuations in blood sugar, drinking a lot of fresh brewed green tea, raising choline intake, things like taurine, ALCAR, tyrosine. Use like 8mg Noopept 2-3 times per week before the most important studying sessions to drive learning. Adrafanil, modafanil, that family of drugs can really create wakefulness for large time periods - they will jack your sleep up though if you over use or take later than first thing in the morning.

Do make sure you are taking a zinc supplement inbetween meals in the morning, and taking magnesium before bed. These are things you don’t want to be deficient in for lots of testosterone, mood, neurological reasons, and most people are magnesium deficient and most men could stand to consume more zinc. It’s also a rate limiter for muscle growth if insufficient (even in AAS users not worried about natural test levels).

There’s probably many more ideas, but I would also say just believe in yourself. Believe in your ability to do this, to learn & that you can make it through. Sometimes things are hard & it’s going to take some grit, and you’re not going to like it. But you have to believe that if you just keep going you can make it out the other side successfully. In a word, perseverance.
 
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@Hyde I’ll check into all that stuff! In terms of lifestyle stuff I’m eating healthy and still exercising, and I’m thirsty as heck lately and downing water like crazy. I drink a ton of homemade unsweetened iced tea too. I haven’t looked into any of those nootropics or zinc/magnesium besides what I get in my daily multivitamin.
Looks like I’ve got plenty of stuff to research which should keep me busy for a while!
 
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I hate melatonin and the way I feel the next day so I only use it on days I really need it maybe 1-2 times a week but I’ll cut that out. Caffeine is daily but it doesn’t help with the brain fog and forgetfulness as much. DMHA helps a ton with the mental stuff and also energy but I don’t like taking it more than once a week
 
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Zma used to be a very popular but I've seen many products over the years adding things to it so I just buy all 3 separately now, I prefer benadryl for an occasional sleep aid.
 

Uncle_E

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That’s an interesting situation you have @newguy. I had low total and free T when I went on. I think that getting free T to the top of the range is what is giving me much of the mental benefits that you are seeking, so maybe TRT would not address your issues to the extent you think it might.

I agree with Hyde, don’t add anything now and wait for the September bloods.

Wild-@$$ guess, but could it be something like chronic fatigue syndrome or other issue like that?

Also, you said that you’re going into your last year of college and want to hit it hard - if you haven’t heard of or read David Goggins “Can’t Hurt Me” get a copy of that today. No matter how motivated and productive you think you are, this guy makes you realize that you’ve only been operating at 40% of your capacity, it’s good stuff.
 
TyMan14

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I’m 24 and started trt at 21. Best choice of my life. I started hormones way younger than i should have and wrecked my test. My total test was at 49 before i got on… i knew when i started cycling it was a possibility and accepted that and now have to deal with the consequences of my actions.

That being said, i feel amazing on trt. The only downside is constantly injecting. I hate doing it but i feel amazing all of the time. Unless you can get a restart to stick, i say do it.
 
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@Uncle_E I’m not gonna rule anything out for being the culprit, whatever it is I want to figure it out. I’m just kind of confused on why his prognosis changed 100 percent from low T the first two tests to not on the third. I love listening to David’s interviews but I’ve never read the book, I’ll look into that. I’m making life work and pushing through but the tired and forgetfulness is worrying me. I’ll give that a read because he is motivational as h*ll
 
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I’m 24 and started trt at 21. Best choice of my life. I started hormones way younger than i should have and wrecked my test. My total test was at 49 before i got on… i knew when i started cycling it was a possibility and accepted that and now have to deal with the consequences of my actions.

That being said, i feel amazing on trt. The only downside is constantly injecting. I hate doing it but i feel amazing all of the time. Unless you can get a restart to stick, i say do it.
The first restart failed completely, I guess I’ll see what doc says in September about another or TRT. Still never cycled but he thinks I may have had a tainted supplement with a pro hormone or hormone in it. Regardless I’m hoping to get it figured out
 
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Well after about a year since the start of all my symptoms I had to switch endocrinologists because of his scheduling. New doctor came highly recommended but after a few visits gave me a scrip for nolvadex to take care of my gyno but told me that I couldn’t possibly have low testosterone because my free T was low but “in the range” even though my total has been consistently in the 200’s range for ng/dl. He also said “I’ve never heard that before but it could be correct” when I clarified with him that “the nolvadex may help restart the HPTA similar to clomid correct?” Which was concerning…

Lh, Fsh, e2, albumin, all thyroid, and all other tests were within range. SHBG was low and out of range at 8nmol/liter. Hcg was less than 1 miu/ml which is in the range. Total test was the only thing wayyyyy out of range but despite showing all symptoms of low T he thinks that I don’t need treatment for that and continued to specify that the nolvadex was only to reduce the gyno.

Insurance totally covers the nolvadex so I’m going to see how these three months of nolva treats me and I might try to stack mtest with it? Also looking into ashwaganda for libido.
 
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Thanks to everyone that’s come in here and offered advice and shared experiences. Figured I would give an update for anyone interested. At the very least I should be able to halt the gyno flare ups and take care of libido and energy through other ways and supplements until I can figure out the cause.
 
Hyde

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I like tamoxifen; you should definitely see a big increase in total test, and your gyno to shrink right up.

If your SHBG is too low, that low, it can also negatively effect sexual function. There’s other ways to raise it I don’t know about, but one cap per day of Turkesterone at basically any dosage you can buy will help elevate SHBG some. Plus the ERb-mediated collagen synthesis (good repair for heavy lifters), and potential anabolic effects of course. I think IML is the most affordable brand I’m aware of that I trust. At one cap a day, it’s reasonable.

SHBG is normally something guys have to try to lower to help get their free test UP, but yours being so low is why yours is so high despite your low total t. Basically none of the test you make is getting bound to SHBG so it’s all available all the time.
 
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I like tamoxifen; you should definitely see a big increase in total test, and your gyno to shrink right up.

If your SHBG is too low, that low, it can also negatively effect sexual function. There’s other ways to raise it I don’t know about, but one cap per day of Turkesterone at basically any dosage you can buy will help elevate SHBG some. Plus the ERb-mediated collagen synthesis (good repair for heavy lifters), and potential anabolic effects of course. I think IML is the most affordable brand I’m aware of that I trust. At one cap a day, it’s reasonable.

SHBG is normally something guys have to try to lower to help get their free test UP, but yours being so low is why yours is so high despite your low total t. Basically none of the test you make is getting bound to SHBG so it’s all available all the time.
^^ Exactly.

@New guy , what was your Free Test # ?
What is the range?
 
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I like tamoxifen; you should definitely see a big increase in total test, and your gyno to shrink right up.

If your SHBG is too low, that low, it can also negatively effect sexual function. There’s other ways to raise it I don’t know about, but one cap per day of Turkesterone at basically any dosage you can buy will help elevate SHBG some. Plus the ERb-mediated collagen synthesis (good repair for heavy lifters), and potential anabolic effects of course. I think IML is the most affordable brand I’m aware of that I trust. At one cap a day, it’s reasonable.

SHBG is normally something guys have to try to lower to help get their free test UP, but yours being so low is why yours is so high despite your low total t. Basically none of the test you make is getting bound to SHBG so it’s all available all the time.
yeah, wes has sold me on trying the IML turk.
 
Hyde

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yeah, wes has sold me on trying the IML turk.
I am going to grab some at some point purely for the joint repair potential. You don’t need a large amount for that effect at all. I already take 20 grams of collagen peptides per day as well to ensure I have substrate available for repair. Can’t train if I’m injured, so repair is #1 priority in my book.
 
thebigt

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I am going to grab some at some point purely for the joint repair potential. You don’t need a large amount for that effect at all. I already take 20 grams of collagen peptides per day as well to ensure I have substrate available for repair. Can’t train if I’m injured, so repair is #1 priority in my book.
yup, i'm 63 so i can 100% relate to that!!!
 
New guy

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^^ Exactly.

@New guy , what was your Free Test # ?
What is the range?
The free test varies a decent bit despite my total test being within a few percent each time. Over the last year it’ll consistently be anywhere from 45 pg/ml up to 77pg/ml with one strange outlier being 99 on a reference range of 47-175. It’s low end of normal but still in range on that low end with the one exception being the 45.
 
New guy

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I like tamoxifen; you should definitely see a big increase in total test, and your gyno to shrink right up.

If your SHBG is too low, that low, it can also negatively effect sexual function. There’s other ways to raise it I don’t know about, but one cap per day of Turkesterone at basically any dosage you can buy will help elevate SHBG some. Plus the ERb-mediated collagen synthesis (good repair for heavy lifters), and potential anabolic effects of course. I think IML is the most affordable brand I’m aware of that I trust. At one cap a day, it’s reasonable.
I’ll look into Turk, I’m gonna look into some more natural supplements to help and that one seems to come very highly regarded. I didn’t know IML had brought a Turk product out so I’ll check that out. I also had not heard of the joint healing properties but I’m always happy to have that.

I’m certain I’ll like the nolva too. Within a few days I was an emotional wreck on clomid but I’ve heard that nolvadex is easier on the emotions. I also saw no test boost from clomid on my restart so a little test boost from the nolva would be absolutely amazing if it works.
 
thebigt

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I’ll look into Turk, I’m gonna look into some more natural supplements to help and that one seems to come very highly regarded. I didn’t know IML had brought a Turk product out so I’ll check that out. I also had not heard of the joint healing properties but I’m always happy to have that.

I’m certain I’ll like the nolva too. Within a few days I was an emotional wreck on clomid but I’ve heard that nolvadex is easier on the emotions. I also saw no test boost from clomid on my restart so a little test boost from the nolva would be absolutely amazing if it works.
i tagged you in wes's log on IML turk.
 
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Very interested in the IML Turk. Looks super promising and more affordable by a fair bit than gorilla mind’s turk. Also looking at SNS products and their ksm-66 and PEA-500. I’ve found a few people who say that ashwaganda helps a lot with libido and pea can be a great option for focus and concentration.
 
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Very interested in the IML Turk. Looks super promising and more affordable by a fair bit than gorilla mind’s turk. Also looking at SNS products and their ksm-66 and PEA-500. I’ve found a few people who say that ashwaganda helps a lot with libido and pea can be a great option for focus and concentration.
WES15 is his discount code at IML and all over if you ever buy any.

KSM66 is a great natty product to help normalize total test - so if it’s lower, it will help raise it some. Also very good to help with stress & anxiety - I have used it to take the edge off when I was on too much gear. Just helps you enjoy life more and not get feathers ruffled, not like in a sedative way. A natural calming. SNS includes in their Stress & Anxiety formula.
 
BMW4Life

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I did it at 22, due to complications as well. Never regretted it a day. Prepare to donate blood, do regular blood work (at first at least) and being horny all the time. Other than that, it's the best decision ever.
 
thebigt

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I did it at 22, due to complications as well. Never regretted it a day. Prepare to donate blood, do regular blood work (at first at least) and being horny all the time. Other than that, it's the best decision ever.
how old are you now?
 
cheftepesh1

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I did it at 22, due to complications as well. Never regretted it a day. Prepare to donate blood, do regular blood work (at first at least) and being horny all the time. Other than that, it's the best decision ever.
So except for blood work it’s like being a normal 22 year old.
 
LondonerTWBULLY

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I like tamoxifen; you should definitely see a big increase in total test, and your gyno to shrink right up.

If your SHBG is too low, that low, it can also negatively effect sexual function. There’s other ways to raise it I don’t know about, but one cap per day of Turkesterone at basically any dosage you can buy will help elevate SHBG some. Plus the ERb-mediated collagen synthesis (good repair for heavy lifters), and potential anabolic effects of course. I think IML is the most affordable brand I’m aware of that I trust. At one cap a day, it’s reasonable.

SHBG is normally something guys have to try to lower to help get their free test UP, but yours being so low is why yours is so high despite your low total t. Basically none of the test you make is getting bound to SHBG so it’s all available all the time.
Hi I’ve noticed a lump too only very small from Rebound of cycle last year.
I’ve got lots of boxes of nolvadex/tamoxifen and also a couple of boxes of letozole.
I don’t know how much to take for reversal and if to take tamoxifen or the letrozole.
any info appreciated thanks.
 
New guy

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Hi I’ve noticed a lump too only very small from Rebound of cycle last year.
I’ve got lots of boxes of nolvadex/tamoxifen and also a couple of boxes of letozole.
I don’t know how much to take for reversal and if to take tamoxifen or the letrozole.
any info appreciated thanks.
My doctor has me on 20mg of nolva a day for three months. Not medical advice, just my experience.
 
Hyde

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Hi I’ve noticed a lump too only very small from Rebound of cycle last year.
I’ve got lots of boxes of nolvadex/tamoxifen and also a couple of boxes of letozole.
I don’t know how much to take for reversal and if to take tamoxifen or the letrozole.
any info appreciated thanks.
You can’t really reverse gyno. You can shrink it for a while by starving the receptors of most all estrogen via big doses of tamoxifen or ideally Raloxifene, but when you come off the receptors will occupy with estrogen again and more or less swell back up to their normal size. Surgery is the only real solution.

Do NOT use letrozole to crush your estrogen systemically just to starve the chest receptors. It’s awful. You need estrogen to function. Use tamoxifen, Toremifene, or Raloxifene for local starvation. Letrozole is basically for guys taking large amounts of Trest or testosterone who find they can’t sufficiently control the aromatization with any amount of Exemestane or Anastrazole and still insist on using those doses of the drugs.
 
BMW4Life

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long way to go-eh?
Well, hopefully. The newer research is quite promoting. Most of the beliefs that TRT shortens life expectancy has actually been debunked. There are actually a lot more benefits to TRT.

It is a life long commitment however. Not just pinning every Sunday for the rest of your life, but making sure everything is in normal ranges etc. All and all, I find it worth it.
 
LondonerTWBULLY

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You can’t really reverse gyno. You can shrink it for a while by starving the receptors of most all estrogen via big doses of tamoxifen or ideally Raloxifene, but when you come off the receptors will occupy with estrogen again and more or less swell back up to their normal size. Surgery is the only real solution.

Do NOT use letrozole to crush your estrogen systemically just to starve the chest receptors. It’s awful. You need estrogen to function. Use tamoxifen, Toremifene, or Raloxifene for local starvation. Letrozole is basically for guys taking large amounts of Trest or testosterone who find they can’t sufficiently control the aromatization with any amount of Exemestane or Anastrazole and still insist on using those doses of the drugs.
Thanks for the advice,it’s only a very small lump(smaller Than a pea)
just wanted to rid it if I could.
I had similar issue before a couple of years ago and it went when I took superdrol.
you think I shall take tamoxifen for few weeks 20-40mg daily then go on to superdrol and test cycle,
in hope it goes away?
i can buy any ai or serm very easily to go with cycle too.
 
Hyde

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Thanks for the advice,it’s only a very small lump(smaller Than a pea)
just wanted to rid it if I could.
I had similar issue before a couple of years ago and it went when I took superdrol.
you think I shall take tamoxifen for few weeks 20-40mg daily then go on to superdrol and test cycle,
in hope it goes away?
i can buy any ai or serm very easily to go with cycle too.
Did you read what I wrote, or what you want to hear?

You starve it, it shrinks. You feed it estrogen or prolactin, it swells & grows. There’s not a magic compound that just unmakes the cells that were created.

Let me know when you find Thanos’s glove and you can just snap tissue entirely out of existence though.
 

Jeremyk1

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You can’t really reverse gyno. You can shrink it for a while by starving the receptors of most all estrogen via big doses of tamoxifen or ideally Raloxifene, but when you come off the receptors will occupy with estrogen again and more or less swell back up to their normal size. Surgery is the only real solution.

Do NOT use letrozole to crush your estrogen systemically just to starve the chest receptors. It’s awful. You need estrogen to function. Use tamoxifen, Toremifene, or Raloxifene for local starvation. Letrozole is basically for guys taking large amounts of Trest or testosterone who find they can’t sufficiently control the aromatization with any amount of Exemestane or Anastrazole and still insist on using those doses of the drugs.
I’ve seen a bunch of guys say raloxifene is better than tamoxifen for gyno. I tried some of MA’s and didn’t notice any difference. The tamoxifen had it shrunk down to nothing in like 2 weeks. Am I just weird?
 

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