I'm a Carnivore

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by hairygrandpa View Post
    There is this bro-science that you can't (or hardly can) gain muscles on a keto diet. Has to do with insulin response to carbs and whatnot. Wanna see if its true.
    You don't need a huge insulin spike to gain muscle. The carbohydrate my body is making from gluconeogenesis is likely enough to trigger an insulin / glut4 response. My glycogen stores are full as far as I am aware - I do not feel flat and typical glycolytic activity like 8 sets of 15 reps on squats are being achieved just as easily as when I was eating a lot of carbohydrate

    I think as long as glycogen stores are kept full there should be no issue with building muscle and muscle memory is giving me good strong gain so far. Bare in mind that my diet isn't "ketogenic". I may or may not be in ketosis I have no idea but that is not the point. The meat I am eating is typically 10-15% fat where as traditional ketogenic diets are 50-70% fat. I'm eating upwards of 400g of protein a day so there is likely a lot of gluconeogenesis going on to restore and add glycogen


  2. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    You don't need a huge insulin spike to gain muscle. The carbohydrate my body is making from gluconeogenesis is likely enough to trigger an insulin / glut4 response. My glycogen stores are full as far as I am aware - I do not feel flat and typical glycolytic activity like 8 sets of 15 reps on squats are being achieved just as easily as when I was eating a lot of carbohydrate

    I think as long as glycogen stores are kept full there should be no issue with building muscle and muscle memory is giving me good strong gain so far. Bare in mind that my diet isn't "ketogenic". I may or may not be in ketosis I have no idea but that is not the point. The meat I am eating is typically 10-15% fat where as traditional ketogenic diets are 50-70% fat. I'm eating upwards of 400g of protein a day so there is likely a lot of gluconeogenesis going on to restore and add glycogen
    That's why I'm interested! Go, go, go -let see some gainz!
    Life is fair it's your expectations that aren't.
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  3. I'll start dumping nutrition information in between training.
    Full disclosure - I'm an IT shift worker doing a critical role for Australia's largest bank. I do two day shifts followed by two night shifts. Then I get 4 days off. These shifts are 12 hours long - 7 until 7.

    Because it's an 8 day roster the week doesn't line up exactly. So I have four training days. I can't train on the day shifts. I can train during the day when I'm on night shift, however if that happens to be the weekend I do not train as I'll be with my family. The days off I'll train. So for this week I am working Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun. Because the night shifts are over the weekend I'll be doing all my training Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs

  4. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    I'll start dumping nutrition information in between training.
    Full disclosure - I'm an IT shift worker doing a critical role for Australia's largest bank. I do two day shifts followed by two night shifts. Then I get 4 days off. These shifts are 12 hours long - 7 until 7.

    Because it's an 8 day roster the week doesn't line up exactly. So I have four training days. I can't train on the day shifts. I can train during the day when I'm on night shift, however if that happens to be the weekend I do not train as I'll be with my family. The days off I'll train. So for this week I am working Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun. Because the night shifts are over the weekend I'll be doing all my training Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs
    I have a critical role too. I'm the one who has to feed 3 cats, without me they go hungry. LOL

    Life is fair it's your expectations that aren't.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by hairygrandpa View Post
    I have a critical role too. I'm the one who has to feed 3 cats, without me they go hungry. LOL

    For me feeding the cat is easy as we have the same diet
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    For me feeding the cat is easy as we have the same diet
    In more ways than one

  7. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    You don't need a huge insulin spike to gain muscle. The carbohydrate my body is making from gluconeogenesis is likely enough to trigger an insulin / glut4 response. My glycogen stores are full as far as I am aware - I do not feel flat and typical glycolytic activity like 8 sets of 15 reps on squats are being achieved just as easily as when I was eating a lot of carbohydrate

    I think as long as glycogen stores are kept full there should be no issue with building muscle and muscle memory is giving me good strong gain so far. Bare in mind that my diet isn't "ketogenic". I may or may not be in ketosis I have no idea but that is not the point. The meat I am eating is typically 10-15% fat where as traditional ketogenic diets are 50-70% fat. I'm eating upwards of 400g of protein a day so there is likely a lot of gluconeogenesis going on to restore and add glycogen
    I believe you are mostly right here...or maybe I don't understand something - but insulin causes glut4 translocation, not carbs.

    But eating 400 grams of carbs means you probably have no chance of being in ketosis. 150 g of protein on a PSMF keeps me out of ketosis for the most part.

    But maybe you will prove some of that wrong with this experiment.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    I believe you are mostly right here...or maybe I don't understand something - but insulin causes glut4 translocation, not carbs.

    But eating 400 grams of carbs means you probably have no chance of being in ketosis. 150 g of protein on a PSMF keeps me out of ketosis for the most part.

    But maybe you will prove some of that wrong with this experiment.
    I believe a lot of people think that because insulin is required for GLUT4 signalling to store glycogen and build muscle that more insulin = better
    I don't believe that is the case, especially not in physiological amounts.

    Even the bodybuilders that use insulin, they are using it to return their blood glucose to normal levels which is elevated due to HGH use.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    I believe a lot of people think that because insulin is required for GLUT4 signalling to store glycogen and build muscle that more insulin = better
    I don't believe that is the case, especially not in physiological amounts.

    Even the bodybuilders that use insulin, they are using it to return their blood glucose to normal levels which is elevated due to HGH use.
    You the one who will proof us wrong -or right! Very interesting indeed. Personally, I expect only marginal lean muscle growth on that diet, even though strength might go up good.
    Life is fair it's your expectations that aren't.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by hairygrandpa View Post
    You the one who will proof us wrong -or right! Very interesting indeed. Personally, I expect only marginal lean muscle growth on that diet, even though strength might go up good.
    The biggest hurdle I see is managing to eat enough calories

  11. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    I believe a lot of people think that because insulin is required for GLUT4 signalling to store glycogen and build muscle that more insulin = better
    I don't believe that is the case, especially not in physiological amounts.

    Even the bodybuilders that use insulin, they are using it to return their blood glucose to normal levels which is elevated due to HGH use.
    Yeah - I was just saying that gluconeogenesis produced carbs won't translocate glut4. Insulin does, but insulin also inhibits gluconeogenesis.

    Not saying it will have a big short term effect. Long term it may induce some insulin resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    The biggest hurdle I see is managing to eat enough calories
    I bet. That's a lot of meat. (@sfreed - setting it up for you here )

  12. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Yeah - I was just saying that gluconeogenesis produced carbs won't translocate glut4. Insulin does, but insulin also inhibits gluconeogenesis.

    Not saying it will have a big short term effect. Long term it may induce some insulin resistance.



    I bet. That's a lot of meat. (@sfreed - setting it up for you here )
    Not exactly the most scientific thing I've said here but humans and our ancestors ate meat exclusively from 2.5 million - 10,000 BC
    Without the ability to gain muscle in the complete absence of plants or carbohydrate we would not have survived. I might not be able to explain it correctly but we are the most adaptable animals in existence

    I actually think the bigger more important question will be "How much fat will be gained"

  13. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Not exactly the most scientific thing I've said here but humans and our ancestors ate meat exclusively from 2.5 million - 10,000 BC
    Without the ability to gain muscle in the complete absence of plants or carbohydrate we would not have survived. I might not be able to explain it correctly but we are the most adaptable animals in existence

    I actually think the bigger more important question will be "How much fat will be gained"
    Exclusively meat? I know that itís clear that humans developed/evolved to eat meat, and the ability to eat calorie-dense foods like meat played a role in our developing larger brains that require a lot of energy/fuel, but I donít recall reading that humans ate EXCLUSIVELY meat, as in literally no fruits, vegetables, etc ever. Could they survive without them? Yeah, but when/if they did, Iíd say it was likely out of necessity, not choice. Anyway, can you post up a source for the ďonly ate meatĒ claim please? Iím genuinely curious.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Exclusively meat? I know that it’s clear that humans developed/evolved to eat meat, and the ability to eat calorie-dense foods like meat played a role in our developing larger brains that require a lot of energy/fuel, but I don’t recall reading that humans ate EXCLUSIVELY meat, as in literally no fruits, vegetables, etc ever. Could they survive without them? Yeah, but when/if they did, I’d say it was likely out of necessity, not choice. Anyway, can you post up a source for the “only ate meat” claim please? I’m genuinely curious.
    Edible plants didn't exist in high quantities back then and most vegetables we eat these days have been selectively bred for more pulp. What they did have was root vegetables but they were incredibly woody and it would have been impossible for them to supply a large amount of calories from them

    Now obviously I can't say that they never ate things that were not from an animal (that would be wrong) - but I definitely can say that humans would not be able to survive if they could not survive eating only meat

    There is also not one single vitamin or mineral that humans need that cannot be found in meat
    I'll try and find some good sources for you... There is plenty but I don't want to link up some time.com article - I want to find the real deal for you

  15. I have the information here for you but it's in PDF form. Please let me know how I can upload this or I can email it

  16. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Edible plants didn't exist in high quantities back then and most vegetables we eat these days have been selectively bred for more pulp. What they did have was root vegetables but they were incredibly woody and it would have been impossible for them to supply a large amount of calories from them

    Now obviously I can't say that they never ate things that were not from an animal (that would be wrong) - but I definitely can say that humans would not be able to survive if they could not survive eating only meat

    There is also not one single vitamin or mineral that humans need that cannot be found in meat
    I'll try and find some good sources for you... There is plenty but I don't want to link up some time.com article - I want to find the real deal for you
    Iím not saying that humans canít survive eating only meat, only that itís not ideal and is more likely to lead to some nutritional imbalances than a more balanced diet. That doesnít mean that it WILL lead to deficiencies, only that the potential is higher if youíre not careful about it. Also, Iíd like to point out that survival of a species is different than optimal heath for an individual. The species may survive, but it may not be optimal, and some individuals may suffer or even die out.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    I have the information here for you but it's in PDF form. Please let me know how I can upload this or I can email it
    Was the PDF accessed from a website? You could link that up. Is it a published paper or study? If you post the name of it I can almost definitely get a full text myself. Thanks.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I’m not saying that humans can’t survive eating only meat, only that it’s not ideal and is more likely to lead to some nutritional imbalances than a more balanced diet. That doesn’t mean that it WILL lead to deficiencies, only that the potential is higher if you’re not careful about it. Also, I’d like to point out that survival of a species is different than optimal heath for an individual. The species may survive, but it may not be optimal, and some individuals may suffer or even die out.

    Was the PDF accessed from a website? You could link that up. Is it a published paper or study? If you post the name of it I can almost definitely get a full text myself. Thanks.
    It's a powerpoint presentation from a PHD I have saved on my laptop. The title is called Homo Carnivorus by Barry Groves

  18. You don't need to be that careful about nutrition though on this diet. It's actually pretty easy. Steak, liver and eggs have a complete nutritional profile on their own

  19. Plants and vegetation would also be seasonal. There would be months at a time almost exclusively meat unless reserves were had.
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  20. I'm a Carnivore


    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    You don't need to be that careful about nutrition though on this diet. It's actually pretty easy. Steak, liver and eggs have a complete nutritional profile on their own
    Thanks for posting it up. So you never have any fiber? Also, where are you getting your Vitamin C from? If I recall, liver only has a pretty small amount, as does milk. Iím not saying you absolutely need a lot of Vitamin C to be healthy, but itís typically a good idea, and I donít see any reason not to supplement a diet like this with some things like Vitamin C unless you just really care about the semantics of saying you eat nothing but meat, which itself already isnít technically true if youíre eating spices and peppers, so why not add some basic vitamins?
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Thanks for posting it up. So you never have any fiber? Also, where are you getting your Vitamin C from? If I recall, liver only has a pretty small amount, as does milk. I’m not saying you absolutely need a lot of Vitamin C to be healthy, but it’s typically a good idea, and I don’t see any reason not to supplement a diet like this with some things like Vitamin C unless you just really care about the semantics of saying you eat nothing but meat, which itself already isn’t technically true if you’re eating spices and peppers, so why not add some basic vitamins?
    He mentioned eggs too.... and if milk is involved he could eat cheese too. It would be a animal based diet -not "meat only".
    Life is fair it's your expectations that aren't.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by hairygrandpa View Post
    He mentioned eggs too.... and if milk is involved he could eat cheese too. It would be a animal based diet -not "meat only".
    Yeah, my mistake on the terminology, but I did address that even milk and eggs don't exactly contain a lot of Vitamin C. Then there's also the fiber issue. Of course, I'm not saying that it can't be done, only that it seems logical to at least add some Vitamin C and fiber, even if it would mean not technically following a 100% carnivore diet, which we've already established he's technically not doing if he's eating herbs, seasonings, and peppers.
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  23. People be nitpicking about seasoning.. lolol.. yes perhaps carnivore isn't the right term.. predat0r diet would be more apt.. as a predat0r would eat the eggs of prey if found.. or whatever helped them to survive..

  24. Quote Originally Posted by D3x View Post
    People be nitpicking about seasoning.. lolol.. yes perhaps carnivore isn't the right term.. predat0r diet would be more apt.. as a predat0r would eat the eggs of prey if found.. or whatever helped them to survive..
    Yeah, but my point is if it's acceptable for him to have seasonings and peppers even though they're not animal products (meat was the wrong word fro me to use), then why not also technically break the carnivore/animal rule by also having some Vitamin C and fiber.
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