CrossFit and bad form? A reality?

Lukewarmth94

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I have heard a million different opinions on CrossFit and there "form". Hardcore lifters say if they want to injure themselves training they will do some bench press with no spotter. Hardcore crossers say that with a "unique" approach to this death defying full body workout, is they never felt they could achieve there fitness goals without it. All in all, it's preference.

Now for the ratings
CrossFit: 97/132 over 75% due to the sport's "unique" approach
Lifting: 24/112 under 30% due to lack of knowledge when it comes to proper form

You decide...
 
muscleupcrohn

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What are these ratings? 97/132? 24/112? Also, 97/132 is 0.7348, or 73.48%, which is under 75%. I'm genuinely confused by this post.
 
Lukewarmth94

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That's how many people get injured.
Sorry for being unclear.
Does anyone on this site NOT hate everybody else??lol and I don't think you hate me ahaha
Or I would cry
 
muscleupcrohn

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That's how many people get injured.
Sorry for being unclear.
Does anyone on this site NOT hate everybody else??lol and I don't think you hate me ahaha
Or I would cry
I don't hate you at all man, I'm just confused and like memes, haha. Where are the % and # ratings coming from?
 
Lukewarmth94

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Well the CrossFit was a study by west virginia, and the lifting was a personal count from a few different studies. Which include west Virginia also
 
muscleupcrohn

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Well the CrossFit was a study by west virginia, and the lifting was a personal count from a few different studies. Which include west Virginia also
A study testing/observing what? What do the numbers represent?
 
Lukewarmth94

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The first numbers are the injured the second number is total people involved. The percentages are the percent injured. Might have meant to put under 75%. Just trying to put that out there before people try CrossFit.or lifting on a regular basis
 

bosskardo

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The first numbers are the injured the second number is total people involved. The percentages are the percent injured. Might have meant to put under 75%. Just trying to put that out there before people try CrossFit.or lifting on a regular basis
Actually, I think a lot of people get injured in first few times due to lack of knowledge and tring new movements. If they make it long enough to become a regular then their supporting muscles should support enough to avoid some injuries and maybe they learned sth too.
 
Lukewarmth94

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Actually, I think a lot of people get injured in first few times due to lack of knowledge and tring new movements. If they make it long enough to become a regular then their supporting muscles should support enough to avoid some injuries and maybe they learned sth too.
Agreed. They are both awesome. I do want to try CrossFit for sure, but that's really expensive. 90a week
 
BRUstrong

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Agreed. They are both awesome. I do want to try CrossFit for sure, but that's really expensive. 90a week
$90/week is insane. I pay $130/month for unlimited. If you can find a reasonable box (with good coaching) give it a try. I lifted for years before trying crossfit. After 2 years of crossfit (with strength training mixed in), I'm leaner, faster, and stronger. I never drank the kool-aid so I am not going to say that crossfit is the greatest program on earth. But many people who knock it have never tried it.

Just as an example, before CF my DL max was 315. After 2 years it's 425. I weigh between 155-160 pounds (depending on the day). Can you make that progress without CF? Sure! But my point is that CF will not destroy your gainz as long as you program properly.
 
Lukewarmth94

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$90/week is insane. I pay $130/month for unlimited. If you can find a reasonable box (with good coaching) give it a try. I lifted for years before trying crossfit. After 2 years of crossfit (with strength training mixed in), I'm leaner, faster, and stronger. I never drank the kool-aid so I am not going to say that crossfit is the greatest program on earth. But many people who knock it have never tried it.

Just as an example, before CF my DL max was 315. After 2 years it's 425. I weigh between 155-160 pounds (depending on the day). Can you make that progress without CF? Sure! But my point is that CF will not destroy your gainz as long as you program properly.
Yeah, only 37$ for my gym membership. I weight the same also. Have not 1rm in a while though
 
justhere4comm

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Just program better. HST.
Hypertrophy Specific Training.

Look it up.
Fukc crossfit.
 
TheMovement

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Read the lawsuit from Crossfit and the NSCA. Determine the rest for yourself but it was eye opening.
 
B5150

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You're comparing apples to oranges.
Both fruits though...right?

Bodybuilding IME has zero functional benefits and over time is functionally detrimental.

When I see s guy my size and weight clean and jerk for reps more weight than I can bench press I know who is more functionally fit and conditioned and is usually leaner t'boot ;)
 
Lukewarmth94

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It's all preference, but I'll stick to weights so I can ALWAYS lift without injury. Again, preference
 
muscleupcrohn

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Both fruits though...right?

Bodybuilding IME has zero functional benefits and over time is functionally detrimental.

When I see s guy my size and weight clean and jerk for reps more weight than I can bench press I know who is more functionally fit and conditioned and is usually leaner t'boot ;)
Bodybuilding, on a competitive level at least, may not have functional benefits relative to other forms of exercise, but, at the end of the day, it's lifting and resistance training, which is good for your health long term compared to not lifting IMO. Of course, bad form, excessive weight, and obviously copious drug use isn't good for your health, but that's something else entirely, as I'm sure there are crossfiters, powerlifters, and gym-bros using steroids as well.

One issue I have with crossfit is when people treat EVERY session as a competition for time, instead of training. It's one thing to sacrifice a little form and technique to get extra reps or a better time during a game/competition (not very frequently), but it's another to do this EVERY workout, multiple times a week, focusing more on the weight lifted or time than proper form. A powerlifter shouldn't max out every workout, and a bodybuilder shouldn't train past failure and do partial reps or use momentum to get more reps/weight every set of every workout. Granted, not all crossfit gyms/boxes advocate this nonsense, but some do. You can't treat every practice like a game. Also, top crossfiters (everyone brings up Froning or however you spell it), didn't get that big and strong doing only WODs, kipping pull ups, and burpies. I'm sure they also do more traditional lifting, which will help even in WODs and whatnot. Crossfit, when used correctly, can be fun and a nice chance of pace, but only if it's done right, and should probably also include some "normal" lifting as well.
$90/week is insane. I pay $130/month for unlimited. If you can find a reasonable box (with good coaching) give it a try. I lifted for years before trying crossfit. After 2 years of crossfit (with strength training mixed in), I'm leaner, faster, and stronger. I never drank the kool-aid so I am not going to say that crossfit is the greatest program on earth. But many people who knock it have never tried it.

Just as an example, before CF my DL max was 315. After 2 years it's 425. I weigh between 155-160 pounds (depending on the day). Can you make that progress without CF? Sure! But my point is that CF will not destroy your gainz as long as you program properly.
No, it won't destroy your gains, and you can make progress doing it, but it's obviously not the most efficient (in terms of cost or time) to build a "Bodybuilding" physique. Of course, not everyone wants a bodybuilding physique, but for those who do, Crossfit probably isn't the best way to go after it, at least not exclusively. I also find that many Olympic lifts really aren't suited for beginners, especially if you're doing them for high reps and time. Focus should be primarily on form for a while before worrying about time, or form will inevitably go out the window in the pursuit of a better time. Of course, I'm sure some boxes place emphasis on form before throwing them to the wolves with snatches for time, but some don't, since people who just start out or want to try it for a week or so want to do a cool WOD, not spend hours getting proper form down for a snatch and clean and jerk. Also, screw kipping pull ups, haha. I saw someone doing weighted kipping Pullups the other day. Doesn't that defeat the entire point of both? Why kipp to make it easier, then add weight to make it more difficult?
 
Lukewarmth94

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Bodybuilding, on a competitive level at least, may not have functional benefits relative to other forms of exercise, but, at the end of the day, it's lifting and resistance training, which is good for your health long term compared to not lifting IMO. Of course, bad form, excessive weight, and obviously copious drug use isn't good for your health, but that's something else entirely, as I'm sure there are crossfiters, powerlifters, and gym-bros using steroids as well.

One issue I have with crossfit is when people treat EVERY session as a competition for time, instead of training. It's one thing to sacrifice a little form and technique to get extra reps or a better time during a game/competition (not very frequently), but it's another to do this EVERY workout, multiple times a week, focusing more on the weight lifted or time than proper form. A powerlifter shouldn't max out every workout, and a bodybuilder shouldn't train past failure and do partial reps or use momentum to get more reps/weight every set of every workout. Granted, not all crossfit gyms/boxes advocate this nonsense, but some do. You can't treat every practice like a game. Also, top crossfiters (everyone brings up Froning or however you spell it), didn't get that big and strong doing only WODs, kipping pull ups, and burpies. I'm sure they also do more traditional lifting, which will help even in WODs and whatnot. Crossfit, when used correctly, can be fun and a nice chance of pace, but only if it's done right, and should probably also include some "normal" lifting as well.
No, it won't destroy your gains, and you can make progress doing it, but it's obviously not the most efficient (in terms of cost or time) to build a "Bodybuilding" physique. Of course, not everyone wants a bodybuilding physique, but for those who do, Crossfit probably isn't the best way to go after it, at least not exclusively. I also find that many Olympic lifts really aren't suited for beginners, especially if you're doing them for high reps and time. Focus should be primarily on form for a while before worrying about time, or form will inevitably go out the window in the pursuit of a better time. Of course, I'm sure some boxes place emphasis on form before throwing them to the wolves with snatches for time, but some don't, since people who just start out or want to try it for a week or so want to do a cool WOD, not spend hours getting proper form down for a snatch and clean and jerk. Also, screw kipping pull ups, haha. I saw someone doing weighted kipping Pullups the other day. Doesn't that defeat the entire point of both? Why kipp to make it easier, then add weight to make it more difficult?
BC that's cool don't you know.lol
 
BRUstrong

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Bodybuilding, on a competitive level at least, may not have functional benefits relative to other forms of exercise, but, at the end of the day, it's lifting and resistance training, which is good for your health long term compared to not lifting IMO. Of course, bad form, excessive weight, and obviously copious drug use isn't good for your health, but that's something else entirely, as I'm sure there are crossfiters, powerlifters, and gym-bros using steroids as well.

One issue I have with crossfit is when people treat EVERY session as a competition for time, instead of training. It's one thing to sacrifice a little form and technique to get extra reps or a better time during a game/competition (not very frequently), but it's another to do this EVERY workout, multiple times a week, focusing more on the weight lifted or time than proper form. A powerlifter shouldn't max out every workout, and a bodybuilder shouldn't train past failure and do partial reps or use momentum to get more reps/weight every set of every workout. Granted, not all crossfit gyms/boxes advocate this nonsense, but some do. You can't treat every practice like a game. Also, top crossfiters (everyone brings up Froning or however you spell it), didn't get that big and strong doing only WODs, kipping pull ups, and burpies. I'm sure they also do more traditional lifting, which will help even in WODs and whatnot. Crossfit, when used correctly, can be fun and a nice chance of pace, but only if it's done right, and should probably also include some "normal" lifting as well.
No, it won't destroy your gains, and you can make progress doing it, but it's obviously not the most efficient (in terms of cost or time) to build a "Bodybuilding" physique. Of course, not everyone wants a bodybuilding physique, but for those who do, Crossfit probably isn't the best way to go after it, at least not exclusively. I also find that many Olympic lifts really aren't suited for beginners, especially if you're doing them for high reps and time. Focus should be primarily on form for a while before worrying about time, or form will inevitably go out the window in the pursuit of a better time. Of course, I'm sure some boxes place emphasis on form before throwing them to the wolves with snatches for time, but some don't, since people who just start out or want to try it for a week or so want to do a cool WOD, not spend hours getting proper form down for a snatch and clean and jerk. Also, screw kipping pull ups, haha. I saw someone doing weighted kipping Pullups the other day. Doesn't that defeat the entire point of both? Why kipp to make it easier, then add weight to make it more difficult?
You sir, are correct. And that's why I'm not "all in" on crossfit. I'll never preach that it's the greatest form of exercise, because exercise is user-dependent. I care more about strength and speed, which is why I follow 5/3/1 with metcons added in. I don't want to look like a bodybuilder. I'd rather be able to snatch 185 pounds than have 20" biceps (but I'm not saying you can't do/have both). Plus, I go to a box that does preach form first, and the rate of injury is extremely low through all age groups (we have high school kids to 65-year-olds). Everything is scaled appropriately. A 65-year old is not going to be doing box jumps, she'll do low step ups instead.

The problem with crossfit is that it has become too much of a business. In order to become crossfit affiliated (so you can label yourself as a crossfit box), you have to agree that you will not make any of your employees/coaches sign a non-compete. Crossfit HQ wants a box on every block. That leads to sh*tty "coaches" opening up boxes because they think they'll make money.

So I definitely agree with you. If you find good coaches and are willing to educate yourself, you can make crossfit work exceptionally well - if that's how you want to exercise. But I won't ever hate on someone for doing a bro-split if that's how they want to work out.

Haha, and I get the beef with Kipping pull-ups. I do weighted, strict pull-ups on my 5/3/1 overhead press day as accessory work. I only bust out kips during a metcon when I'm focused on speed. To me, they are more of a conditioning exercise than anything else.
 
muscleupcrohn

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You sir, are correct. And that's why I'm not "all in" on crossfit. I'll never preach that it's the greatest form of exercise, because exercise is user-dependent. I care more about strength and speed, which is why I follow 5/3/1 with metcons added in. I don't want to look like a bodybuilder. I'd rather be able to snatch 185 pounds than have 20" biceps (but I'm not saying you can't do/have both). Plus, I go to a box that does preach form first, and the rate of injury is extremely low through all age groups (we have high school kids to 65-year-olds). Everything is scaled appropriately. A 65-year old is not going to be doing box jumps, she'll do low step ups instead.

The problem with crossfit is that it has become too much of a business. In order to become crossfit affiliated (so you can label yourself as a crossfit box), you have to agree that you will not make any of your employees/coaches sign a non-compete. Crossfit HQ wants a box on every block. That leads to sh*tty "coaches" opening up boxes because they think they'll make money.

So I definitely agree with you. If you find good coaches and are willing to educate yourself, you can make crossfit work exceptionally well - if that's how you want to exercise. But I won't ever hate on someone for doing a bro-split if that's how they want to work out.

Haha, and I get the beef with Kipping pull-ups. I do weighted, strict pull-ups on my 5/3/1 overhead press day as accessory work. I only bust out kips during a metcon when I'm focused on speed. To me, they are more of a conditioning exercise than anything else.
Is the snatch really a functional movement though? Clean and jerk I could see, and squats and deadlifts, shoulder/push press, etc I could see being "functional." Who has ever naturally lifted something by snatching it? I also think that people underestimate the functionality of strong biceps, haha. They're great for carrying boxes and stuff if you have to hold them out in front of you. Higher rep sets and direct bicep work make carrying things easier, and most people are more likely to carry lighter objects around than lift a few hundred pounds above their heads on an average day, no? Plus, who doesn't like big biceps.
 
smith_69

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telling someone to incorrectly lift something or jerk their body over a bar in the worst form possible just shows that cross fit needs its own category- the same category that defines ridiculousness and stupidity.
 
BRUstrong

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Is the snatch really a functional movement though? Clean and jerk I could see, and squats and deadlifts, shoulder/push press, etc I could see being "functional." Who has ever naturally lifted something by snatching it? I also think that people underestimate the functionality of strong biceps, haha. They're great for carrying boxes and stuff if you have to hold them out in front of you. Higher rep sets and direct bicep work make carrying things easier, and most people are more likely to carry lighter objects around than lift a few hundred pounds above their heads on an average day, no? Plus, who doesn't like big biceps.
The snatch is probably the most debated Oly lift in the CF setting. They are optional at our box - if you don't feel comfortable doing them, the coaches will sub another exercise for you. We also do not do high reps with heavy weights. Basically, the snatch is a ballistic movement. It's functionality comes from its ability to increase your overall power output, which helps with sprinting and jumping.
 
muscleupcrohn

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The snatch is probably the most debated Oly lift in the CF setting. They are optional at our box - if you don't feel comfortable doing them, the coaches will sub another exercise for you. We also do not do high reps with heavy weights. Basically, the snatch is a ballistic movement. It's functionality comes from its ability to increase your overall power output, which helps with sprinting and jumping.
That's good, but I wouldn't recommend high rep snatches even with light weight haha. But it does sound like you found a pretty decent box, especially compared to what's out there.
 
BRUstrong

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That's good, but I wouldn't recommend high rep snatches even with light weight haha. But it does sound like you found a pretty decent box, especially compared to what's out there.
Yea, plus I educated myself quite a bit. A lot of people just blindly listen to others. Haha and I will admit that I do hit an arm session every once in awhile after a metcon or a 5/3/1 day...I wouldn't mind 20 inch biceps!
 
Lukewarmth94

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You sir, are correct. And that's why I'm not "all in" on crossfit. I'll never preach that it's the greatest form of exercise, because exercise is user-dependent. I care more about strength and speed, which is why I follow 5/3/1 with metcons added in. I don't want to look like a bodybuilder. I'd rather be able to snatch 185 pounds than have 20" biceps (but I'm not saying you can't do/have both). Plus, I go to a box that does preach form first, and the rate of injury is extremely low through all age groups (we have high school kids to 65-year-olds). Everything is scaled appropriately. A 65-year old is not going to be doing box jumps, she'll do low step ups instead.

The problem with crossfit is that it has become too much of a business. In order to become crossfit affiliated (so you can label yourself as a crossfit box), you have to agree that you will not make any of your employees/coaches sign a non-compete. Crossfit HQ wants a box on every block. That leads to sh*tty "coaches" opening up boxes because they think they'll make money.

So I definitely agree with you. If you find good coaches and are willing to educate yourself, you can make crossfit work exceptionally well - if that's how you want to exercise. But I won't ever hate on someone for doing a bro-split if that's how they want to work out.

Haha, and I get the beef with Kipping pull-ups. I do weighted, strict pull-ups on my 5/3/1 overhead press day as accessory work. I only bust out kips during a metcon when I'm focused on speed. To me, they are more of a conditioning exercise than anything else.
Kips are where your moving to do your pull up??
The only time I do that is when I do burpees come up and do a pull up
 
muscleupcrohn

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TL;DR, kipping pull ups aren't intended to build your back, but are a movement used in competition, therefore it should be practiced by those who have to do it in competition?

If that is the case, and that's a fair argument, then they should only be practiced if one intends to do Crossfit competitions (where proficiency and practice would be necessary). If one is doing Crossfit purely to get in shape or build muscle, they don't really serve a purpose that can't be achieved in a more efficient manner by a different movement or exercise. Part of the problem is people wanting to say they can do 20 pull ups (kipping) rather than 5 (strict).
 
Lukewarmth94

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I thought I came up with that. Technically I did.just not first, and I knew CrossFit was a sport. Just didn't know how large it was. Alot of lifters think they can't compete, but they have competition for all kinds of weight classes. Hopefully I join one here in a couple months
 
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TL;DR, kipping pull ups aren't intended to build your back, but are a movement used in competition, therefore it should be practiced by those who have to do it in competition?

If that is the case, and that's a fair argument, then they should only be practiced if one intends to do Crossfit competitions (where proficiency and practice would be necessary). If one is doing Crossfit purely to get in shape or build muscle, they don't really serve a purpose that can't be achieved in a more efficient manner by a different movement or exercise. Part of the problem is people wanting to say they can do 20 pull ups (kipping) rather than 5 (strict).
But people can compete with themselves everyday. So it's not just for actual competition. You can train to become more proficient at kipping PU so you can beat a previous time in a certain metcon. I'm not arguing that they are better than strict pull ups. Each serves a different purpose. I can do 15 strict pull ups, but I can do 15 kips faster
 
muscleupcrohn

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But people can compete with themselves everyday. So it's not just for actual competition. You can train to become more proficient at kipping PU so you can beat a previous time in a certain metcon. I'm not arguing that they are better than strict pull ups. Each serves a different purpose. I can do 15 strict pull ups, but I can do 15 kips faster
That's true, but it goes back to the difference in your purpose in doing Crossfit. If you're doing it to get in shape and/or fun/competition, then they're fine I suppose. But my issue with them is that some people go to do Crossfit primarily with the intention of building muscle and "looking like Rich Froning" and just blindly follow the Crossfit dogma of doing whatever they're told without questioning why they're doing it, or if there is a better option. Although that's a problem with personal trainers in "normal" gyms and people doing bro splits too.
 
BRUstrong

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That's true, but it goes back to the difference in your purpose in doing Crossfit. If you're doing it to get in shape and/or fun/competition, then they're fine I suppose. But my issue with them is that some people go to do Crossfit primarily with the intention of building muscle and "looking like Rich Froning" and just blindly follow the Crossfit dogma of doing whatever they're told without questioning why they're doing it, or if there is a better option. Although that's a problem with personal trainers in "normal" gyms and people doing bro splits too.
I hear ya. Guys like Froning were jacked before they started CF. Plus, Froning trains 3-4 times per day. You're not gonna put on mass like that just doing the WOD and calling it day
 
muscleupcrohn

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I hear ya. Guys like Froning were jacked before they started CF. Plus, Froning trains 3-4 times per day. You're not gonna put on mass like that just doing the WOD and calling it day
Exactly. It's like saying playing basketball, only playing an actual game every day, will make you look like LeBron. It's not going to happen. Practice should be different than actual games. Now, just to fuel the fire, do you think guys like Froning are on some sort of PEDs?
 
BRUstrong

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Exactly. It's like saying playing basketball, only playing an actual game every day, will make you look like LeBron. It's not going to happen. Practice should be different than actual games. Now, just to fuel the fire, do you think guys like Froning are on some sort of PEDs?
I think so, and a lot of other people feel the same. It would be very interesting to see what would happen if they tested athletes who qualify for the Games
 
muscleupcrohn

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I think so, and a lot of other people feel the same. It would be very interesting to see what would happen if they tested athletes who qualify for the Games
It only makes sense that at least some of the top crossfitters would be, no? If there isn't testing, which I'm not sure if there is or isn't, it seems obvious that some people would use to try to gain an advantage, and we all know how big of an advantage it can be in a sport that does still involve a lot of lifting.
 
Lukewarmth94

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It only makes sense that at least some of the top crossfitters would be, no? If there isn't testing, which I'm not sure if there is or isn't, it seems obvious that some people would use to try to gain an advantage, and we all know how big of an advantage it can be in a sport that does still involve a lot of lifting.
If there's no testing I might try it after my first lift comp
 
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It only makes sense that at least some of the top crossfitters would be, no? If there isn't testing, which I'm not sure if there is or isn't, it seems obvious that some people would use to try to gain an advantage, and we all know how big of an advantage it can be in a sport that does still involve a lot of lifting.
The top competitors are either on PEDS or are absolute freaks of nature. Not just their speed, strength, and endurance, but also their recovery
 
muscleupcrohn

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The top competitors are either on PEDS or are absolute freaks of nature. Not just their speed, strength, and endurance, but also their recovery
PEDs would help with that. You'd also figure that the desire to win, and make money, would certainly push some people to using, if they aren't already. There's actually pretty big money to be had there. If someone was close to winning naturally, and there isn't testing, which I'm not sure of, it'd be hard not to use it to win. As for the organization, it may be in their best interest to pretend to be ignorant to drug use, as it leads to bigger and stronger competitors, which Crossfit can then use to promote the sport/cult. "Look at this guy. Crossfit is why he looks like this. Do Crossfit."

As for freaks of nature, some football players are insane, like Vernon Davis. 6'3" 240+ and ran a 4.38, benched 225x33, and had a 42" vertical at the combine.
 
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I have done Xfit a number of times. IMO, there is nothing wrong with the actual movements, although the PU are debatable, and are used for speed.

Speed and the clock are my biggest concern. Once the clock starts ticking, everyone goes all ape shi* and losses form. What's funny is, you do a warm up, then strength training. Everything is good at that point, most people have good form and the coach (if they are good) will walk around helping people. THEN the work out of the day (WOD) begins and the clock starts ticking. I don't care who you are, you throw 100lbs over your head 20 times as fast as you can, and you are going to lose form. That is all there is to it, some workouts just should not be rushed. This is where I think the majority of injuries occur.
 
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The top competitors are either on PEDS or are absolute freaks of nature. Not just their speed, strength, and endurance, but also their recovery
I think that virtually everyone at the comp level is on PED's. Especially in xfit, these guys/gals are beating the crap out of their body, then coming back the next day and doing it again. No normal person can recover like that.
 
BRUstrong

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I have done Xfit a number of times. IMO, there is nothing wrong with the actual movements, although the PU are debatable, and are used for speed.

Speed and the clock are my biggest concern. Once the clock starts ticking, everyone goes all ape shi* and losses form. What's funny is, you do a warm up, then strength training. Everything is good at that point, most people have good form and the coach (if they are good) will walk around helping people. THEN the work out of the day (WOD) begins and the clock starts ticking. I don't care who you are, you throw 100lbs over your head 20 times as fast as you can, and you are going to lose form. That is all there is to it, some workouts just should not be rushed. This is where I think the majority of injuries occur.
This is so true. Sometimes our coaches will stop people (whether they like it or not) when they are just getting out of control. I'll take not having the fastest time over getting hurt and being sidelined for a few weeks/months any day.
 
Lukewarmth94

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I've never watched a competition for CrossFit, but do points count against your form??
 
BRUstrong

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I can't wait to see what crazy stuff they pull out for this year's Games. Those ring handstand push ups though...
 
DGator86

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I'm going to chime in on this...
Going to the original point and title of the post, Crossfit can encourage bad form, but let's analyze.

Let's say you picked up golf on your own. Without coaching, just bought some clubs and whacked around some balls. How good do you think your form would be? Now, let's say you got a coach. Not a good one, but a coach nonetheless. Your form would more than likely improve to some degree. Now, let's say you got a great coach with experience. Someone who cued form, speed, strength and created a training program to make you a better golfer. How do you think you would be after?

Bottom line, as with anything with a high degree of technicality, coaching is key. Not to undermine the "bodybuilder" mentality, but if that's what you are looking for then Crossfit probably is going to be a major shift for you. It is entirely separate. Will you get skinnier? Yes. Will your muscles get bigger? Yes. But more than likely, the type of gains you will have will be force over looks.

I used to train in a typical "globo gym" as we say. Motivation was hard. I had no idea how to program, and knew nothing about how a body gets stronger. Now, 6 years into Crossfit my deadlift is 515lbs, back squat 405lbs, I can run a 6:30 mile, Row a 2k in less than 7 minutes, and perform a wide variety of gymnastic movements. My coach programs and guides me and the other members of our gym with constantly varied training over a variety of time domains.

As with most things, it's about quality. Coaching quality.

Also, as a side note, yes times are important. But these are a measure of the intersection of strength and conditioning. Chances are if your form sucks and you do it fast you're going to pay in the long run. Whether or not you listen to your coach.

Just my $0.02...
 
muscleupcrohn

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I'm going to chime in on this...
Going to the original point and title of the post, Crossfit can encourage bad form, but let's analyze.

Let's say you picked up golf on your own. Without coaching, just bought some clubs and whacked around some balls. How good do you think your form would be? Now, let's say you got a coach. Not a good one, but a coach nonetheless. Your form would more than likely improve to some degree. Now, let's say you got a great coach with experience. Someone who cued form, speed, strength and created a training program to make you a better golfer. How do you think you would be after?

Bottom line, as with anything with a high degree of technicality, coaching is key. Not to undermine the "bodybuilder" mentality, but if that's what you are looking for then Crossfit probably is going to be a major shift for you. It is entirely separate. Will you get skinnier? Yes. Will your muscles get bigger? Yes. But more than likely, the type of gains you will have will be force over looks.

I used to train in a typical "globo gym" as we say. Motivation was hard. I had no idea how to program, and knew nothing about how a body gets stronger. Now, 6 years into Crossfit my deadlift is 515lbs, back squat 405lbs, I can run a 6:30 mile, Row a 2k in less than 7 minutes, and perform a wide variety of gymnastic movements. My coach programs and guides me and the other members of our gym with constantly varied training over a variety of time domains.

As with most things, it's about quality. Coaching quality.

Also, as a side note, yes times are important. But these are a measure of the intersection of strength and conditioning. Chances are if your form sucks and you do it fast you're going to pay in the long run. Whether or not you listen to your coach.

Just my $0.02...
What you say about times being measures of the intersection of strength and conditioning is true when utilized properly. This is a case where proper coaching is of vital importance. As you say, if you sacrifice form for time, you'll suffer in the long run (if you don't suffer an acute injury at the time), but one issue is that some people are incapable, or unwilling, to look at the big picture and long term, and would rather put up a quick time to either impress people, or compete against or beat other people (or themselves; wanting "progress" to show too quickly).

Crossfit isn't inherently bad, and can actually be a great way to look good and get in good overall shape, it's just the perversion and dilution that comes with the growth and spread of Crossfit, as well as the desire to maximize profits from it. Unfortunately, not every box/coach is good, or even decent, and many beginners would have no way of ascertaining this, much in the same way that a beginner may not know that their local LA Fitness or YouFit trainer may not be a good, or even decent, trainer.

What do you mean by "undermine the 'bodybuilder' mentality? Typical "bro splits" and programming? As I've said before, you can certainly get big and strong by doing crossfit, but you're not going to get "bodybuilder big" by doing it, but that's not what everyone who goes to the gym and lifts wants, even those people who do follow "bro" or "bodybuilding" splits and programming. Most people just want to get in shape and be relatively lean and muscular. Look at some mainstream Hollywood actors, and many of them that people say are very muscular and people want to have a physique like aren't all that big to many of us here, and certainly aren't "bodybuilder size" by any means. So, yes, most people can still notice muscle growth with crossfit, but a "bodybuilder," someone at a competitive level, likely won't "grow" doing only Crossfit, and I argue that crossfit is never the quickest or most ideal way to purely gain muscle, but that's not the point of it, so it's not really even a valuable comment, haha.

At the end of the day, what type of exercise and programming you do ultimately comes down to a couple of factors. One being what your goal is. If you want to lift as much as possible, then consider strongman/powerlifting. If you want to be as muscular as possible, consider bodybuilding. If you want to get in better shape and/or "overall fitness" then you can consider crossfit. Now, that shouldn't be taken to mean that pursuing one goal means forfeiting the others, because powerlifters can be, and often are, very muscular, bodybuilders are often very strong, and Crossfit people can also be quite strong and muscular. It also depends on your health and what your body does well, especially if you want to compete at a decent level. Some people, frankly, aren't meant to lift a ton of weight (enough to be competitive powerlifters), and some people just don't have the genetics to be competitive bodybuilders. Again, that's not to say that most people can't have fun and make good progress doing something even if they're not genetically or naturally gifted at it. Injuiries also play a role here. Ever since I tore a ligament in my lower back during wrestling practice, I don't/can't deadlift super heavy, and even tend to keep squats at a non-maximal weight the vast majority of the time. That, to me, puts powerlifting out of the question, and even makes me hesitant to do a significant amount of Crossfit. Luckily for me, I've always enjoyed bodybuilding oriented training and goals the most, so it's all good.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day, hopefully it's somewhat relevant and coherent.
 
DGator86

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What you say about times being measures of the intersection of strength and conditioning is true when utilized properly. This is a case where proper coaching is of vital importance. As you say, if you sacrifice form for time, you'll suffer in the long run (if you don't suffer an acute injury at the time), but one issue is that some people are incapable, or unwilling, to look at the big picture and long term, and would rather put up a quick time to either impress people, or compete against or beat other people (or themselves; wanting "progress" to show too quickly).

Crossfit isn't inherently bad, and can actually be a great way to look good and get in good overall shape, it's just the perversion and dilution that comes with the growth and spread of Crossfit, as well as the desire to maximize profits from it. Unfortunately, not every box/coach is good, or even decent, and many beginners would have no way of ascertaining this, much in the same way that a beginner may not know that their local LA Fitness or YouFit trainer may not be a good, or even decent, trainer.

What do you mean by "undermine the 'bodybuilder' mentality? Typical "bro splits" and programming? As I've said before, you can certainly get big and strong by doing crossfit, but you're not going to get "bodybuilder big" by doing it, but that's not what everyone who goes to the gym and lifts wants, even those people who do follow "bro" or "bodybuilding" splits and programming. Most people just want to get in shape and be relatively lean and muscular. Look at some mainstream Hollywood actors, and many of them that people say are very muscular and people want to have a physique like aren't all that big to many of us here, and certainly aren't "bodybuilder size" by any means. So, yes, most people can still notice muscle growth with crossfit, but a "bodybuilder," someone at a competitive level, likely won't "grow" doing only Crossfit, and I argue that crossfit is never the quickest or most ideal way to purely gain muscle, but that's not the point of it, so it's not really even a valuable comment, haha.

At the end of the day, what type of exercise and programming you do ultimately comes down to a couple of factors. One being what your goal is. If you want to lift as much as possible, then consider strongman/powerlifting. If you want to be as muscular as possible, consider bodybuilding. If you want to get in better shape and/or "overall fitness" then you can consider crossfit. Now, that shouldn't be taken to mean that pursuing one goal means forfeiting the others, because powerlifters can be, and often are, very muscular, bodybuilders are often very strong, and Crossfit people can also be quite strong and muscular. It also depends on your health and what your body does well, especially if you want to compete at a decent level. Some people, frankly, aren't meant to lift a ton of weight (enough to be competitive powerlifters), and some people just don't have the genetics to be competitive bodybuilders. Again, that's not to say that most people can't have fun and make good progress doing something even if they're not genetically or naturally gifted at it. Injuiries also play a role here. Ever since I tore a ligament in my lower back during wrestling practice, I don't/can't deadlift super heavy, and even tend to keep squats at a non-maximal weight the vast majority of the time. That, to me, puts powerlifting out of the question, and even makes me hesitant to do a significant amount of Crossfit. Luckily for me, I've always enjoyed bodybuilding oriented training and goals the most, so it's all good.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day, hopefully it's somewhat relevant and coherent.
If it gets you off your ass, and makes you feel good, I say do it! You are 100% correct about good and bad gyms. I've seen some bad ones and get out as fast as I can.
I didn't mean to offend with the bodybuilder comment, so if I did I apologize. I was trying to point out the difference in the goal at hand. Bodybuilding is just what the name says. It's more about aesthetics and building the body to look a certain way. Powerlifting is about pure power, strong AF and usually pretty big to go along with it. CrossFit's name is same way, cross-functional fitness.
We are not in disagreement, just talking over the fence.
 
Ricky10

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Both fruits though...right?

Bodybuilding IME has zero functional benefits and over time is functionally detrimental.

When I see s guy my size and weight clean and jerk for reps more weight than I can bench press I know who is more functionally fit and conditioned and is usually leaner t'boot ;)
Well said...can't agree more. I am sure that something like crossfit would get me in the best shape I have been in since my 20's. Problem is, I am not much of a group workout person though. I love my time in the weight room with my IPod...in the zone from OL CU and thinking about nothing else. It is my therapeutic me time which is very hard to substitute.
 
Ricky10

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I have done Xfit a number of times. IMO, there is nothing wrong with the actual movements, although the PU are debatable, and are used for speed.

Speed and the clock are my biggest concern. Once the clock starts ticking, everyone goes all ape shi* and losses form. What's funny is, you do a warm up, then strength training. Everything is good at that point, most people have good form and the coach (if they are good) will walk around helping people. THEN the work out of the day (WOD) begins and the clock starts ticking. I don't care who you are, you throw 100lbs over your head 20 times as fast as you can, and you are going to lose form. That is all there is to it, some workouts just should not be rushed. This is where I think the majority of injuries occur.
I agree...that is just downright ignorant. You may as well just plan on getting injured..
 

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