Sparkss journey to recovery

Sparkss

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In July of 2013 I fell down a flight of stairs. I was 46 and roughly 175 lbs (5'10"). In the process I tore my bicep and rotator cuff (did not know this until much later). It bothered me for a while, but I was able to function, but it did keep me out of the gym. I went to my GP who sent me to an orthopedic surgeon. After many hoops (all for insurance purposes), x-rays and MRIs I finally had a diagnosis and scheduled surgery.

The last week in December (2013) I went under the knife, as it were. It was scheduled to be a 45 minute operation. 3 1/2 hours later they were still working and trying to beat the clock (the anesthesia they used was apparently not intended for that duration and the nerve block for my weight had a time limit. Or so I was told later). The doctor told me that the MRI did not show the full detail of the damage. In addition to reattaching/suturing several tendons they ended up severing my bicep where it comes over the top of the outside arm/shoulder bone, drilled a hole in my shoulder blade, threaded the top of the bicep through and attached it with two nylon screws to the back of my shoulder. Needless to say that when I came out of surgery I was extremely sore. Anecdotally I ended up back in the ER later that night for pain management (morphine drip).

My right (dominant) arm was completely immobilized, with the surgeon telling me that the screws that held my bicep in place were only rated for 5 lbs of force and that if I lifted more than that before it was healed I would end up with the long head of my bicep rolled up in the crook of my elbow (where he said it was unlikely they could salvage it). So, again, needless to say my physical therapy took on a whole different color of fear for me. After PT I still had a diminished Range Of Motion ROM), so I went back to the Ortho. He felt that my shoulder was "frozen" and wanted to "go back in to break up the capsule", which just means to cut all of the newly formed scar tissue on the shoulder capsule. I decided to just "go my won way" to regain my ROM.

Fast forward a couple of months (9+ post PT, 14+ post surgery), between a lack of activity and an abundance of comfort food (feeding my self-pity along with my gut) and I eventually grew to over 200 lbs (wife says I was 220 at one point, but I don't recall) and m BF% was 28%+. Until May of 2015.

the tail end of May 2015 I came down with a heavy duty fever that left me more or less bedridden for 10 days (between trying to self-manage the symptoms to realizing it had become a bacterial infection, and going to the doctor for anti-biotics, and those taking time to take affect). I ate very little during that period, mostly chicken soup, and still scant amounts of even that. I lost 15 lbs across that 1.5 week period. Not healthy, not intentional, but it gave me a bit of a boost towards my goals and helped jumpstart a healthy eating program. The viral infection I had started in my sinuses (not uncommon in Florida). While I had recovered from the virus, I was still suffering from massive nasal congestion. So my doctor directed me to take an OTC decongestant, that was when I started taking Claritin-D 24 hour pills each day.

Coming out of the illness I noticed that my appetite was pretty well non-existent. I (incorrectly) assumed that it was the illness, or a lack of calories having "reset" my appetite (leaner/smaller stomach needing less food, or something like that). It turns out it was the pseudophedrine (sp?) in the Claritin-D that was squashing my appetite. The impact was that I no longer had "snack attack" cravings. Not for carbs, simple sugars, anything. I almost had to remind myself to eat my normal meals, much less crave any in-between meal snacks. By January 2016 I was down to between 150 and 155 lbs (solely through diet, or more specifically portion control and cutting out all sweets/sodas/pastries/etc.). I don't remember how far down I got and my journal was lost in a computer crash (thought it was included in my backups, but I was mistaken). I may have gotten down almost to 150 (I seem to recall 150.8, but am not going to swear to anything).

I got all into the science of cutting/leaning. I picked up a glucose meter and found my fasting baseline, then worked on which foods, times and supplements would help me to control any insulin spikes. I spent a fair amount of time researching and experimenting along the way. I also included BCAA and Glutamine in my supplement regime to try to reduce muscle mass loss during this time (since I also was not doing any physical activity, outside of yard work/chores (honey-dos).

So then I moved on to the next phase, trying to put on muscle mass. I bought a power block set, small weight bench and started exercising at home. Added in protein powder (bulk) and a few other supps to come up with pre/intra/post/evening shake "recipes" (as I referred to them). Constantly tweaking and experimenting with what worked for me (since everyone is different).

I am up to 166 lbs, according to a BF scale I am at 12% (give or take a %) and I (and my wife and daughter) can see a difference. But I am still struggling with ROM issues that prevent many exercises (I have no outward rotation). One example is that overhead presses are physically not possible. Take the typical "two-gun" bicep pose, that I often equate to a (3 candle) candelabra pose. I cannot rotate my right arm above 70 degrees (if 90 degrees is perpendicular to the floor).

Here is me @ 4 1/2 months most surgery (already showing my *bad* weight gain)
2014-04-16 (Cropped-Scaled).jpg


No back definition to speak of (providing for progress/comparison purposes)
2014-04-16 back (Cropped).jpg


Here I am near my "peak" weight, This is the end of January 2015 and those are 36" waist jeans. I look sort of "big" in the picture, but I am really just "fat".
2015-01-30 (Cropped-scaled).jpg


The next two were taken last week and show my ROM issues with my shoulder. According to my (new) Ortho I have almost no scauplar movement. He thinks it is due to bone spurs that formed post-surgery. Also during the original surgery the surgeon had in his notes that I had advanced (I think stage-4 was the term?) arthritis. It is believed that when I sent down the stairs the bone jarring in the socket sheared all of my cartilage in my shoulder. Again, my right shoulder is the one that doesn't move (when my arm moves).
Front view
2016-05-20 shoulder front (Cropped).jpg


Back view (also notice that I can only raise my arm so high too)
2016-05-20 shoulder back (Cropped).jpg
 
Sparkss

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Here are some pictures taken last week (May 2016). I still cannot seem to get rid of the spare tire/flanks/back fat, no matter what. Maybe some industrial strength fat burners will help :)

I am not flexing in any of these

At least I have some back/lats to speak of :)

2016-05-20 07.33.44 (Scaled).jpg


You can also see that I have a slight curvature of my spine due to L4, L5, S1 discs that are bulging (confirmed by an MRI) and pinching a (sciatica) nerve. Hence my use of an inversion chair from time to time. The pinched nerve makes me lean to one side and makes my flank "fat" more pronounced at times (sigh), not that it needs any help in that area (I mean in making itself more visible)

2016-05-20 front (Cropped-scaled).jpg


And my favorite pose, to minimize the flanks. I am not holding in my breath or anything, but the twist/pose does pull the lower abs in a bit on its own, which is nice for a pict :)).

2016-05-20 front-side (Cropped-scaled).jpg
 
Sparkss

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Reserving for updates
 
smith_69

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and subbed for a follow along. glad you have this up bro
 
Sparkss

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Current progress pictures just went up. I will work in supplements and workouts. Although I am more of an instinctive workout person. I don't plan ahead of time, outside of a few core exercises, what I am going to do to work the target muscle group of the day. Since I workout in my "little" home gym, I can jump on you-tube if I am not feeling the form just right in a new exercise.


I also was having what I thought were possibly low-T symptoms a month or two back and went to my GP (who specializes in TRT/HRT). I just got my blood work back on that. I have a follow up with him next week to go over the results. I will be 49 in 6 weeks, so I am using that age for the "average" (I know, numbers aren't everything). Here is what the values came back with (forgive me if I leave any important values out, I am honestly just learning about TRT and how to interpret the test results):

Total Test 556 ng/dL
Free Test 90.5 pg/mL
BioAvail Test 197.9 ng/dL
SHB 26 nmo/L
Estradiol 32 pg/mL

I am not sure if I am happy or upset with those numbers.... I will find out what the doctor recommends next week. But if I am interpreting the data correctly, I likely am not needing, nor am a candidate for, TRT. So unless I am wrong, I will be sticking with natty supps. Oh, I have never run a cycle of anything before (and looks like I might be waiting a bit until I start.. wanted to have TRT to run a test base, plus have medical supervision for any support meds, call me nancy :))
 
Sparkss

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and subbed for a follow along. glad you have this up bro
Thanks Smith. Honored to have you along! Try not to steal too much glory with pictures of your decadent hair and out-of-control arms!!! :D
 
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Sparkss

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LOL

Hmmm, that pasta looks good.... (wait, is that pasta?)
 
hairygrandpa

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Subbed! I like your enthusiasm and dedication, let's see how you progress!
 
Sparkss

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Subbed! I like your enthusiasm and dedication, let's see how you progress!
Thanks HG. Like they always say, bodybuilding is a journey not a destination. :)
 
sparks2012

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Subbed buddy, didn't realise how extensive your injuries were until reading through this. Awesome willpower to start (and stick with) a controlled diet and exercise program despite having all sorts of issues physiologically. Subbed for updates!
 
Sparkss

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Subbed buddy, didn't realise how extensive your injuries were until reading through this.
Yea, I am pretty much a mess :). Plus not having a massive set of machines makes things interesting :). You can see my entire gym behind me in the pictures above, well minus the fold up roman chair that I use for back hyper extensions (that is in the other corner and it really help with my sciatica and overall stabilization by strengthening my lower back). But its all good. This is the new "normal" for me. It is the framework within which I work to push out my workouts. You really learn to get creative to be able to hit the muscles in any worthwhile fashion :)

Awesome willpower to start (and stick with) a controlled diet and exercise program despite having all sorts of issues physiologically. Subbed for updates!
Much appreciated. I am pretty good about self-control for that stuff (mostly).

Although the last 3 days my diet has been for crap :D. A confluence of events rained down (adding in that I have not worked out since Monday either.. I am absolutely itching to pick up something heavy!!! LOL). Long story short my daughter came home sick Monday afternoon, running a 104+ fever. So not much sleep Monday night, applying the normal procedures (ice packs, cold compresses, ibuprofen/tylenol "hop scotch doses). Tuesday she was still running a high fever, so off to the doctor (was too late to take her Monday and we were able to bring her temp down, so nothing else to do until morning). Running on fumes all day Tuesday (so no work out... not enough sleep). Tuesday night was a repeat of Monday night. She awaoke Wednesday morning and her fever had broken, and did not return throughout the day. Yea, still too tired to safely or effectively work out. Fast forward to the evening, and we all tried to go to bed early, mostly because we had to get up at 3 AM to drive to the airport for the non-refundable international flight that the girls (wife and daughter) had planned (the doctor cleared her to go, so they both went this morning). I got home from the airport around 6:30 this morning and still have not been back to bed. Day 3, too fatigued to work out. Then add in the comfort food and cokes (one yesterday and one today) to try to prop myself up to make it through the day in general.

Ok, guess that was a long story long LOL :)

bed early tonight, lots of sleep, and going to hammer chest tomorrow!
 
sparks2012

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Ok, guess that was a long story long LOL :)

bed early tonight, lots of sleep, and going to hammer chest tomorrow!

Nothing is too long on AM threads, lol. I feel you on the lapse of diet/training. When my wife broke her foot, it was rough trying to train, eat my meals (healthy ones at that), sleep, and be worth a shyt at work. I was still working nights, so I'd be up from 5-ish one evening to 3 or 4 in the afternoon the next day at the least, so it totally threw off any prepping or training ideas for the next day. Don't feel bad about it, just go back and hit it hard tomorrow!
 
hairygrandpa

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Nothing is too long on AM threads, lol. I feel you on the lapse of diet/training. When my wife broke her foot, it was rough trying to train, eat my meals (healthy ones at that), sleep, and be worth a shyt at work. I was still working nights, so I'd be up from 5-ish one evening to 3 or 4 in the afternoon the next day at the least, so it totally threw off any prepping or training ideas for the next day. Don't feel bad about it, just go back and hit it hard tomorrow!
Totally agree with you. If something in your life throws you of balance, it's hard working out. Then you realize how much the CNS is involved.
 
Sparkss

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Totally agree with you. If something in your life throws you of balance, it's hard working out. Then you realize how much the CNS is involved.
I couldn't agree with you more


I almost forgot to add that also bought a foam roller after reading about it in MrKleen73 and BamBam0319 's thread. I tried it out on Monday (it was shoulder/traps day). So how do you SMR your traps and delts ?!?!? I gave it a go, but my limited mobility and general difficulty in hitting those muscles I must have looked like a walrus flopping around on the floor trying to roll them out LOL.

Would they be the "smaller" muscles that some people feel do not benefit from SMR?
 
UncleSarm

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Subbed for the inspiration and dedication.

As sparks2012 said, your willpower is impressive. But that's good, it will serve you well. Don't let the doctors tell you what you can or cannot do, because they are used to dealing with wienies so when the going gets rough they won't even try (I've had them punk out on me and had to show them the light). So be gentle and mindful, but keep pushing hard. Don't worry about losing a battle here or there, you are winning the war. You have come a long way and I get the feeling you are not done.

:usa:
 
Sparkss

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Thanks for the encouragement UncleSarm. And you are right, I am not done yet :).

I really want to hear what my doctor says about my lab results next week, although I think I already know the answer. I am also hoping for some feedback and suggestions from the AM community, based on the blood work, and my goals, what sort of a natty (non-suppresive) stack would be a good one to give a try.

I have a confession. I admit that I chickened out on something. My new Orthopedic surgeon (only changed because we moved) wrote me a PT script. He warned me ahead of time that it would be "very painful", but "may" bring some ROM improvements. Well, there are 2 PT offices within 5 minutes or less of my house, but I have been too chicken ***t to take in the script to either of them (and let them "twist me like a pretzel"). In addition to the pain quotient I just know it will goof up my workout potential for several days following the PT. Maybe I can shoot for next Friday or something, and convalesce over the weekend.
 
sparks2012

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I couldn't agree with you more


I almost forgot to add that also bought a foam roller after reading about it in MrKleen73 and BamBam0319 's thread. I tried it out on Monday (it was shoulder/traps day). So how do you SMR your traps and delts ?!?!? I gave it a go, but my limited mobility and general difficulty in hitting those muscles I must have looked like a walrus flopping around on the floor trying to roll them out LOL.

Would they be the "smaller" muscles that some people feel do not benefit from SMR?
Interesting you mentioned Myofacial Release. If you watch Donnie Thompson's vids on YouTube (superdtv), he's a huge proponent of ART/Myofacial Release. Basically he has steel rollers of various weights that are meant for "body tempering", best I can describe it as is a hardcore, bada$$, steel version of a foam roller. Only difference is that it rolls on you (In Soviet Russia, roller rolls you). My buddy had one made, roughly 150lbs, and it's done wonders to breaking up tissues that build up over the years. In the few times I've used it, it's realigned some stuff in my back that I could never "pop" myself and I seem to use my posterior chain more effectively. I've only been training for about 5 or so, and I'm 22 so I'd imagine someone with a couple more years on me and a lot more time to let "gunk" build up in muscle tissue would benefit greatly from something like that. Obviously I wouldn't recommend rolling 150lbs onto your delts, but I am having a smaller one made, roughly 80lbs, to work limbs independently and to work bi's/tri's/delts in general. It is painful on certain areas, no doubt, but it's similar to body floss in the aspect that with that much weight being steamrolled on to you, it forces old blood out of the area and once removed will flush the area with new, nutrient rich blood. To my knowledge there isn't any solid medical research that could be considered widely credible by the medical community, but I have a lot of faith in general in the benefits and longevity that can be offered with the use of SMR/ART. I've always been more of "holistic" heading kind of guy anyway. I've never been to doctor about my shoulder, except in basic because I had to, and I've injured it more than once. Same with my lower back, injured it pretty badly and the docs didn't even want to do X-Rays, they just sent me home with Percocet and muscle relaxers. I didn't use them at all and researched ways to make my mobility better and train around the direct injury, all the while strengthening the area of effect. My squat and deadlift are better than ever now, and I (knock on wood) don't suffer from anything lower back related, even with ramping up weights and frequency recently. In short, check out his stuff if you'd like and like UncleSarm said, don't always trust what the docs say. They're used to treating sedentary wusses who'll give up at the first sign of having to work through an injury without someone holding their hand.

EDIT: I'm not knocking the fear of pain or fear of slowing results because you want to step forward and try and better yourself when I referenced the docs being used to wusses who need their hands held. I wasn't trying to be condescending whatsoever, I just have a sore spot for people who complain things they can change but will not put forth the effort because it's "too hard". You're obviously not that type of person, seeing as how you're still pushing despite your circumstances.
 
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Looking good!
 
Sparkss

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Interesting you mentioned Myofacial Release. If you watch Donnie Thompson's vids on YouTube (superdtv), he's a huge proponent of ART/Myofacial Release. Basically he has steel rollers of various weights that are meant for "body tempering", best I can describe it as is a hardcore, bada$$, steel version of a foam roller. Only difference is that it rolls on you (In Soviet Russia, roller rolls you). My buddy had one made, roughly 150lbs, and it's done wonders to breaking up tissues that build up over the years. In the few times I've used it, it's realigned some stuff in my back that I could never "pop" myself and I seem to use my posterior chain more effectively. I've only been training for about 5 or so, and I'm 22 so I'd imagine someone with a couple more years on me and a lot more time to let "gunk" build up in muscle tissue would benefit greatly from something like that. Obviously I wouldn't recommend rolling 150lbs onto your delts, but I am having a smaller one made, roughly 80lbs, to work limbs independently and to work bi's/tri's/delts in general. It is painful on certain areas, no doubt, but it's similar to body floss in the aspect that with that much weight being steamrolled on to you, it forces old blood out of the area and once removed will flush the area with new, nutrient rich blood. To my knowledge there isn't any solid medical research that could be considered widely credible by the medical community, but I have a lot of faith in general in the benefits and longevity that can be offered with the use of SMR/ART. I've always been more of "holistic" heading kind of guy anyway. I've never been to doctor about my shoulder, except in basic because I had to, and I've injured it more than once. Same with my lower back, injured it pretty badly and the docs didn't even want to do X-Rays, they just sent me home with Percocet and muscle relaxers. I didn't use them at all and researched ways to make my mobility better and train around the direct injury, all the while strengthening the area of effect. My squat and deadlift are better than ever now, and I (knock on wood) don't suffer from anything lower back related, even with ramping up weights and frequency recently. In short, check out his stuff if you'd like and like UncleSarm said, don't always trust what the docs say. They're used to treating sedentary wusses who'll give up at the first sign of having to work through an injury without someone holding their hand.

EDIT: I'm not knocking the fear of pain or fear of slowing results because you want to step forward and try and better yourself when I referenced the docs being used to wusses who need their hands held. I wasn't trying to be condescending whatsoever, I just have a sore spot for people who complain things they can change but will not put forth the effort because it's "too hard". You're obviously not that type of person, seeing as how you're still pushing despite your circumstances.
Part of my initial post-PT therapy included ART from a licensed practitioner, so I am intimately familiar with the practice and methods LOL. I actually attribute the ROM that I have today to the treatments I received from her. I tracked an appreciable, measurable improvement in my outward and inward rotation after those sessions. Right now I have great inward rotation (ability to reach behind you using the same motion as if someone has you in a arm hold, just not raised that far up your back, if that makes sense?)

I have not been able to find an ART therapist (close by) since we moved down here and my ART person in NC did not know of any to recommend either.

EDIT: And yes, it hurt like h***, for days afterwards, but it was worth it. I went twice a week. It was hard, but then again anything worthwhile usually is. She actually brought tears to my eyes more than once during those sessions LOL

EDIT2: The ART sessions were something I researched and pursued myself after my doctor told me he wanted to cut again to "free the capsule" in my shoulder. It was not something he (intentionally) put me on the path towards.
 
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just catching up on the thread and I am cringing. I need to have surgery on my left shoulder; cartilage is just about gone between the bone and socket. Dr said they would go in and scrap away both sides to reduce contact. almost throwing up even thinking about this now.

left shoulder however over the past 2 years has gotten better, but now the right is starting to bother me. might look into bionics lol
 
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just catching up on the thread and I am cringing. I need to have surgery on my left shoulder; cartilage is just about gone between the bone and socket. Dr said they would go in and scrap away both sides to reduce contact. almost throwing up even thinking about this now.

left shoulder however over the past 2 years has gotten better, but now the right is starting to bother me. might look into bionics lol
Seriously? Sounds scary as hell.
How did you get this? Lifting?
You are much too young for having this kind of problems, bro...
 
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Seriously? Sounds scary as hell.
How did you get this? Lifting?
You are much too young for having this kind of problems, bro...
43 and never stretching correctly years ago, always heavy wgts etc. I really got into lifting seriously back in 98-99 so I was able to get a lot of great stuff. size and strength came on faster so. its not that I cant move both shoulders and thankfully it isn't a rotator issue. then I would be up sh1ts creek
 
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43 and never stretching correctly years ago, always heavy wgts etc. I really got into lifting seriously back in 98-99 so I was able to get a lot of great stuff. size and strength came on faster so. its not that I cant move both shoulders and thankfully it isn't a rotator issue. then I would be up sh1ts creek
What is the worst case scenario when you avoid surgery?
 
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What is the worst case scenario when you avoid surgery?
if I did surgery, would not be able to lift for 6 weeks min. shoulder would be repaired to 90-95% HOWEVER dr said that if I continue to lift with heavy wgts or do certain exercises the mobility would diminish again. othro surgery so in and out same day.

I hit 260 on military so that was my goal. that's it done with anything over 225
 
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Up in here for support and possibly wrong but well-meaning advice :D
 
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if I did surgery, would not be able to lift for 6 weeks min. shoulder would be repaired to 90-95% HOWEVER dr said that if I continue to lift with heavy wgts or do certain exercises the mobility would diminish again. othro surgery so in and out same day.

I hit 260 on military so that was my goal. that's it done with anything over 225
The way my shoulder has been feeling, I'm thinking much the same thing regarding presses. Pulls on the other hand, I just can't go light on deads. It's like an addiction...
 
Sparkss

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left shoulder however over the past 2 years has gotten better, but now the right is starting to bother me.
That is something that happens, it happened to me too. When one side/joint (arm, shoulder, etc.) get injured the other side picks up the slack, often subconsciously, to the point where it takes more wear and abuse than it is accustomed to. My left (non-surgery) shoulder actually pops and grates more than my right (surgery) shoulder does. This started about a year or so post-surgery.
 
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Well, the wife and daughter are about 3/4 of the way from Tokyo to Bangkok (per Flight Track). About another hour and they should be on approach to the airport there. *sigh*, I had a lackluster workout this morning (that I will post later today), possibly because of still catching up on lost sleep and possibly because I a bit down. They will be gone 2 months and the house is quite empty and quiet now. Their travel time is 30+ hours (roughly 25 in the air, the rest (2) layover times). It was a lot easier when we lived in SF and flew out of SFO. Less stops and a lot shorter overall flight. Oh well :)

I will feel a whole lot better when they are safely on the ground and safely to her parents house.
 
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Well, the wife and daughter are about 3/4 of the way from Tokyo to Bangkok (per Flight Track). About another hour and they should be on approach to the airport there. *sigh*, I had a lackluster workout this morning (that I will post later today), possibly because of still catching up on lost sleep and possibly because I a bit down. They will be gone 2 months and the house is quite empty and quiet now. Their travel time is 30+ hours (roughly 25 in the air, the rest (2) layover times). It was a lot easier when we lived in SF and flew out of SFO. Less stops and a lot shorter overall flight. Oh well :)

I will feel a whole lot better when they are safely on the ground and safely to her parents house.
My wife went often on vacation with the kids alone, while I attended the business. The first 3 days without them are wonderful, walking naked around the house, scratching my butt and sleeping diagonal in bed. After 3 days I become lethargic. All is so quiet.
So, I know how you feel.
 
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My wife went often on vacation with the kids alone, while I attended the business. The first 3 days without them are wonderful, walking naked around the house, scratching my butt and sleeping diagonal in bed. After 3 days I become lethargic. All is so quiet.
So, I know how you feel.
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smith_69 is never alone.
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:toofunny:
 
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imo, you aren't missing much not being on trt...my 7 years on it was a real ordeal...unless you have insurance that will cover it or lots of money to go to a clinic that specializes in trt, going thru a GP is a true struggle, at least it was for me.
 
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imo, you aren't missing much not being on trt...my 7 years on it was a real ordeal...unless you have insurance that will cover it or lots of money to go to a clinic that specializes in trt, going thru a GP is a true struggle, at least it was for me.
Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I also get that I am "not missing anything" in not having to go on TRT, but at the same time I half-hoped the labs would show the need, to help explain my other symptoms. It's all good, I just need to focus on the natty/test boost supps. Didn't you mention that you had some that you used with good results?
 
thebigt

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Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I also get that I am "not missing anything" in not having to go on TRT, but at the same time I half-hoped the labs would show the need, to help explain my other symptoms. It's all good, I just need to focus on the natty/test boost supps. Didn't you mention that you had some that you used with good results?
get diesel DTHC V2 is a good natty sup, so is alphamax...I've never tried t3estify but profile looks good and it's on sale.

if you really want a boost in test, I had amazing results running epi andro/4-ad.
 
hairygrandpa

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I'm a bit the black sheep here. No docs visited but on TRT -or better : cruising and blasting.
If it's an ordeal and cost prohibitive in US, like thebigt said, I would think twice too.

On the other hand, one can spend a lot of money on test boosters and supps too, I switched recently to no-name bulk BCAA and protein for this reason.
 
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get diesel DTHC V2 is a good natty sup, so is alphamax...I've never tried t3estify but profile looks good and it's on sale.
Thanks for the tips. I try not to use 4-letter words, but you used one that I just love to hear "sale" :). I know a lot of places are having Memorial Day sales going on right now, so the timing is right. I just need to do my due diligence before I put my $$ down :). I am starting at a bottle of AnaBeta Elite that I purchased a short while ago, since it could be used on/off TRT. If I recall some like stacking it with alphamax. Well, off to do a bunch of reading LOL :)

if you really want a boost in test, I had amazing results running epi andro/4-ad.
I thought that was suppressive? Guess I need to restart my research now that my focus has been swung to natty/non-suppressive supps
 
Sparkss

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I'm a bit the black sheep here. No docs visited but on TRT -or better : cruising and blasting.
If it's an ordeal and cost prohibitive in US, like thebigt said, I would think twice too.

On the other hand, one can spend a lot of money on test boosters and supps too, I switched recently to no-name bulk BCAA and protein for this reason.
I had balanced out the cost of TRT against test boost supps and/or any cycle agents + on cycle support + PCT, and the cost was not that much different from what the Doctor had quoted me per-month for the TRT, plus with TRT I had the "built in" medical support for blood work (insured), pharma AI or SERM meds, or whatever else might come up. That aside, I have never been on anything suppressive, and TRT is technically suppressive, so I would prefer to wait to start anything like that until after my natural production was too low to sustain my lifestyle on its own. My fear is that I will be that one guy (out of a 100, 1,000, or whatever) that never recovers normal HPTA health, if I ever want to stop the TRT, or at the end of a cycle (if I go on a suppressive cycle of anything).

And I buy all (well, almost all) of my protein and BCAAs (and most other supps) in bulk. There are a couple of good companies here in the US that sell/ship them.
 
hairygrandpa

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I had balanced out the cost of TRT against test boost supps and/or any cycle agents + on cycle support + PCT, and the cost was not that much different from what the Doctor had quoted me per-month for the TRT, plus with TRT I had the "built in" medical support for blood work (insured), pharma AI or SERM meds, or whatever else might come up. That aside, I have never been on anything suppressive, and TRT is technically suppressive, so I would prefer to wait to start anything like that until after my natural production was too low to sustain my lifestyle on its own. My fear is that I will be that one guy (out of a 100, 1,000, or whatever) that never recovers normal HPTA health, if I ever want to stop the TRT, or at the end of a cycle (if I go on a suppressive cycle of anything).

And I buy all (well, almost all) of my protein and BCAAs (and most other supps) in bulk. There are a couple of good companies here in the US that sell/ship them.
I thought so too at first.
After rethinking:

-do I want more kids? -no
-do I want feel like 10 years younger? -yes
-do I want look -and be strong again? -yes
-do I hate PCT? -yes
-do I accept the risks involved going on test forever? -hmmm....yes

I'm not that long on test yet and I bet I could go back like thebigt did after years. Was it worth it until now? YES!
I feel on 250mg/week test like a teenager, no TRT dose, I know.
In two weeks I will lower the dose to 250mg/every 12 days and see how I feel.
thebigt , how do you feel now in comparison to when you were on TRT?
What is your actual test now and how much did you on TRT?
 
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I thought so too at first.
After rethinking:

-do I want more kids? -no
-do I want feel like 10 years younger? -yes
-do I want look -and be strong again? -yes
-do I hate PCT? -yes
-do I accept the risks involved going on test forever? -hmmm....yes

I'm not that long on test yet and I bet I could go back like thebigt did after years. Was it worth it until now? YES!
I feel on 250mg/week test like a teenager, no TRT dose, I know.
In two weeks I will lower the dose to 250mg/every 12 days and see how I feel.
thebigt , how do you feel now in comparison to when you were on TRT?
What is your actual test now and how much did you on TRT?


haven't had blood test in awhile, I got pissed off with the va..they took me off trt because of too much-too thick blood[polycythemia]-I said just just take some blood every month which is the standard treatment, but they refused. I actually feel pretty good these days, natty supps and the occasional epi/4ad cycle followed by clomid is working well for me...I was on 200mg weekly test cyp, then they cut me back to 100mg weekly, then they wanted to go to 50mg every 2 weeks...I told the f'ing VA to kiss my ass!!!
 
hairygrandpa

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haven't had blood test in awhile, I got pissed off with the va..they took me off trt because of too much-too thick blood[polycythemia]-I said just just take some blood every month which is the standard treatment, but they refused. I actually feel pretty good these days, natty supps and the occasional epi/4ad cycle followed by clomid is working well for me...I was on 200mg weekly test cyp, then they cut me back to 100mg weekly, then they wanted to go to 50mg every 2 weeks...I told the f'ing VA to kiss my ass!!!
Damn, the only thing you would have needed is a friend who is a nurse.
Yes, secondary polycythemia is my concern too.
Whats your natural test now?
 
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Damn, the only thing you would have needed is a friend who is a nurse.
Yes, secondary polycythemia is my concern too.
Whats your natural test now?
lol...I said I haven't had it tested in awhile...actually I've missed several appointments-the VA really pissed me off!!!
 
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I thought so too at first.
After rethinking:

-do I want more kids? -no
-do I want feel like 10 years younger? -yes
-do I want look -and be strong again? -yes
-do I hate PCT? -yes
-do I accept the risks involved going on test forever? -hmmm....yes
I agree with all of your answers HG. The last one is my only concern, because it is really a huge unknown. As you noted there are others that have been on (traditional) TRT for years and have successfully transitioned back to natural production (by "successfully" I mean that their test numbers are back to roughly where they were prior to starting TRT, IE: not any worse off than before they started).

My doc is a huge proponent of the pellets, so basically come in once every 4 ~ 6 months and get a huge needle shoved in your posterior. Then blood work every XX weeks as a follow up. He quoted approximately $120 per month (all depends on the # of pellets). If I recall it was more specifically $650 ~ $700 for 6 months worth.
 
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Sub'd. Man, you had a rough couple of years there.
 
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Sub'd. Man, you had a rough couple of years there.
Thanks. I try not to get too bogged down in the negative of it all (that is a fast sinking mess that would give quicksand a bad name). I am hoping that by sharing my bad times, and how I dealt with them (some successes, more than a few failures/restarts) that it might help someone else out down the road.

I have a few posts that I have that I want to put up, but have been pretty buried here the last couple of days, between recovering from a severe lack of sleep to being bummed about my family being half-way round the world. So I have been throwing myself into my work, both professionally, and last night and through this weekend, knocking out honey-dos around the house. I didn't even work out today but I am sore all over LOL.
 
hairygrandpa

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I agree with all of your answers HG. The last one is my only concern, because it is really a huge unknown. As you noted there are others that have been on (traditional) TRT for years and have successfully transitioned back to natural production (by "successfully" I mean that their test numbers are back to roughly where they were prior to starting TRT, IE: not any worse off than before they started).

My doc is a huge proponent of the pellets, so basically come in once every 4 ~ 6 months and get a huge needle shoved in your posterior. Then blood work every XX weeks as a follow up. He quoted approximately $120 per month (all depends on the # of pellets). If I recall it was more specifically $650 ~ $700 for 6 months worth.
That doesn't sounds sooo much. But hey, if your levels are good for your age, I would not consider it. Maybe some stims can cheer you up.
My main problem is (as an black market user), I have trouble to inject myself IM. What happens when I travel, what happens when my contact does not provide any pharmacy grade stuff anymore, what if my 75 yo private nurse dies, who does the injections? That is my main concern, not so much possible sides.
Will try subcutaneous peptides for healing on my own and think I can pull that off -but IM, no way.
 
hairygrandpa

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How is it going?
 

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