The High-Jinx Log: Celebrations of My Reincarnations

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  1. Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html


  2. You're awesome, dude. Perhaps we can salvage this ass-torn log after all, with some prep H, of course.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate
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  3. Jinxie - quick question on your numbers.

    OHP
    45 x 10
    95 x 8 (ouch; done)

    I assume by OHP, this is with a barbell? Are you pressing just the bar in your first set, then adding some weight?
    I'm surprised this hurt you if you're pressing 45# DBs! The OHP press is more of a compound movement, so I would've expected less pain. Where is the pain located for you when doing OHP?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Jinxie - quick question on your numbers.

    OHP
    45 x 10
    95 x 8 (ouch; done)

    I assume by OHP, this is with a barbell? Are you pressing just the bar in your first set, then adding some weight?
    I'm surprised this hurt you if you're pressing 45# DBs! The OHP press is more of a compound movement, so I would've expected less pain. Where is the pain located for you when doing OHP?
    You would expect less rotator cuff pain with an OHP because it's a compound movement? That makes no sense to me.


    FWIW, my wife has a torn labrum (probably), and she can't properly lock out a barbell OHP because she can't get the weight back at the top and it ends up being a little in front of her. NG stuff seems to be ok though jinxie, in case you hadn't tried that yet.

  5. A compound movement utilizes various stabilizers to assist in the movement whereas an isolation movement puts more force on the direct target (rotator cuff).

    Lifting 100 pounds overhead with DBs is much harder on the rotator cuff than 100 pounds via barbell, since the force is much more targeted...On a barbell, the load is spread out and shared bilaterally.....or so I would think, it's just logical.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    FWIW, my wife has a torn labrum (probably), and she can't properly lock out a barbell OHP because she can't get the weight back at the top and it ends up being a little in front of her. .
    I've recovered from 1 labrum repair, and now have a 2nd tear I'm dealing with. Seems like SLAP tears are so much more common than I had thought!!

    The weight at the top of an OHP, when locked out, is supported via the traps and triceps, but mainly by the traps. Where is the pain occurring for her at the top of her OHP? Perhaps it's a mobility issue. I would have her do the broom stretch daily, and do band work for the rotator cuff. This is exactly what I do for my current tear, and it's not causing any issues anymore (no need for surgery at the moment on the new tear).

  7. Ohp's are murder on my repaired labrum, and the one that's torn now - by MRI.



  8. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post

    I've recovered from 1 labrum repair, and now have a 2nd tear I'm dealing with. Seems like SLAP tears are so much more common than I had thought!!

    The weight at the top of an OHP, when locked out, is supported via the traps and triceps, but mainly by the traps. Where is the pain occurring for her at the top of her OHP? Perhaps it's a mobility issue. I would have her do the broom stretch daily, and do band work for the rotator cuff. This is exactly what I do for my current tear, and it's not causing any issues anymore (no need for surgery at the moment on the new tear).
    But, there are many different ways you can injure the RC, they might all be torn labrum but the location of the tear can be different which would cause different movements to hurt different people.


    When done correctly the bench press is not an issue for her, and it is a mobility thing to a point. I already have her do all of that, and it helps to a point, but the fact remains that due to the injury she cannot OHP without pain.

    And, as per your thoughts on barbell to dumbbell, the dumbbell will use more stabilizers but there isn't a fixed bar path so it doesn't force the shoulder to move in a certain way like holding onto a BB can. With a DB, the motion can be tweaked in ways that don't cause pain, but with BB movements the bar path is fixed (like I mentioned) so it is harder to minimize the associated pain.

    Plus, working the stabilizers of the rotactor cuff is a good thing if the labrum is torn because strengthening the surrounding muscles can create a false labrum to help keep the joint stable.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    But, there are many different ways you can injure the RC, they might all be torn labrum but the location of the tear can be different which would cause different movements to hurt different people.

    When done correctly the bench press is not an issue for her, and it is a mobility thing to a point. I already have her do all of that, and it helps to a point, but the fact remains that due to the injury she cannot OHP without pain.

    And, as per your thoughts on barbell to dumbbell, the dumbbell will use more stabilizers but there isn't a fixed bar path so it doesn't force the shoulder to move in a certain way like holding onto a BB can. With a DB, the motion can be tweaked in ways that don't cause pain, but with BB movements the bar path is fixed (like I mentioned) so it is harder to minimize the associated pain.

    Plus, working the stabilizers of the rotactor cuff is a good thing if the labrum is torn because strengthening the surrounding muscles can create a false labrum to help keep the joint stable.
    I was actually thinking the barbell would be easier overall, since I'm able to load up far more weight on it vs dumbbells. I think that goes the same for most people. I certainly can't bench 125# DBs, but I can bench 250 with a barbell for reps normally. The barbell utilizes compounds movements, more muscle groups, so the load is spread out more vs how targeted DBs are. So I'm still confused with how OHP can be an issue for some people vs DB press, if mobility isn't the main issue. I'm learning though since I'm going through this myself, so I'm not challenging as much per say as explaining the logic that I see.

    Is it the position of the movement that stresses the repair in a specific way?
    OHP is something that I just completely cut out after my surgery, out of caution. I just use bands and cables and for size it's been completely fine, but I'd love to work OHP back into my routine. I used to be able to 1RM 185# OH, and want to blast that number away one day..just worried about reinjuring by going overhead again.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Ohp's are murder on my repaired labrum, and the one that's torn now - by MRI.



    Yeah I've cut them completely out. I was doing them for a while after my surgery but then I decided I just didn't want to risk it. The strange thing is I got to the point post-op (last summer) where I was OHP'ing 135 for reps with no pain, while having 1 SLAP repair (w/bicep tenodesis) and another unrepaired SLAP tear. I hadn't pressed overhead at all up till then, and just decided to test it out and see what I could work up to, and everything felt fine. I really want to work this back in...just really worried about pressing any weight off form / with internal rotation. Lately all I've been working on are corrective exercises because I've been so paranoid about causing further injury.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post

    I was actually thinking the barbell would be easier overall, since I'm able to load up far more weight on it vs dumbbells. I think that goes the same for most people. I certainly can't bench 125# DBs, but I can bench 250 with a barbell for reps normally. The barbell utilizes compounds movements, more muscle groups, so the load is spread out more vs how targeted DBs are. So I'm still confused with how OHP can be an issue for some people vs DB press, if mobility isn't the main issue. I'm learning though since I'm going through this myself, so I'm not challenging as much per say as explaining the logic that I see.

    Is it the position of the movement that stresses the repair in a specific way?
    OHP is something that I just completely cut out after my surgery, out of caution. I just use bands and cables and for size it's been completely fine, but I'd love to work OHP back into my routine. I used to be able to 1RM 185# OH, and want to blast that number away one day..just worried about reinjuring by going overhead again.
    Why would you think a barbell OHP would use more muscles than a DB OHP? They are the same compound (multi-joint) movement, involving the same muscles, except the DB works the stabilizer muscles more.


    The BB is going to be easier as far as weight moved is concerned because it doesn't require as much stabilization. But, that doesn't make it easier on the joint because of the fixed bar path and grip angle. With the DBs you can rotate the wrists freely to allow for less RC stress and ultimately less pain/inflammation.


    As far as your case is concerned, I would say you could do any exercises that don't hurt the injury. That's what we do with my wife, if it hurts we cut it and use another alternative, then a few months later (with the constant rehab exercises) we try again to gauge her progress.

  12. Fwiw, I can't say the OHPs hurt meaningfully more than the seated DB presses. I was already somewhat fatigued from the Arnold Presses. I usually go up to around 45 or so on those, but even 35s is a fair amount of weight if done strictly 8/8/5 with flyes, as I do them.However, I generally concur with @jimbuick and @napalm. Though I am quite relatively strong on OHPs, when I get to 155+ (even though 135 x 10 is no problem), things start to hurt across clavicle and a/c joints moreso than heavy seated DB presses.As a matter of further background, I have had 7 shoulder surgeries. Bilateral distal clavicular excision with subacromial decompression. Bilateral labral repairs and RC debridement. Bilateral biceps tenodesis, along with further labral repairs and acromplasty. And then a corrective tenodesis after a full rupture, one week post surgery. So at this juncture, I am pretty dialed in on what I can and can't do, and what's causing the pain. YMMV.Appreciate the input. Just a friendly reminder, I would like to keep my log a civil place, though spirited debate is promoted, and I thank you each for your valuable input.Happy Thanksgiving all!
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate

  13. Happy turkey day ma man. Best Holliday ever. It won the award...for best Holliday ever. Over eat and watch football for the win.
    Training Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/271254-what-aw-hell.html
    "Jackie Treehorn treats objects like woman man."

  14. Quote Originally Posted by rob112 View Post
    Happy turkey day ma man. Best Holliday ever. It won the award...for best Holliday ever. Over eat and watch football for the win.
    Like wise, and thanks much Rob!

    Weather is sucking here in South Fla.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Like wise, and thanks much Rob! Weather is sucking here in South Fla.
    Screw you lol cold n windy here!!
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  16. Is it like the commercials where like a cloud floated by and you were like "it was much nicer yesterday?" Lol
    Training Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/271254-what-aw-hell.html
    "Jackie Treehorn treats objects like woman man."

  17. South FL? Whatcha doing there?
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    South FL? Whatcha doing there?
    I imagine eating Cuban food, looking at girls in thongs on South Beach, binge drinking, and killing people alongside Dexter.

    That's my imagination at least..
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    I imagine eating Cuban food, looking at girls in thongs on South Beach, binge drinking, and killing people alongside Dexter.

    That's my imagination at least..
    That's a pretty fcking good imagination.
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html

  20. Omg Toro...you're a genius.

    We can finally say " Fck "

    Fck yes!
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Fwiw, I can't say the OHPs hurt meaningfully more than the seated DB presses. I was already somewhat fatigued from the Arnold Presses. I usually go up to around 45 or so on those, but even 35s is a fair amount of weight if done strictly 8/8/5 with flyes, as I do them.However, I generally concur with @jimbuick and @napalm. Though I am quite relatively strong on OHPs, when I get to 155+ (even though 135 x 10 is no problem), things start to hurt across clavicle and a/c joints moreso than heavy seated DB presses.As a matter of further background, I have had 7 shoulder surgeries. Bilateral distal clavicular excision with subacromial decompression. Bilateral labral repairs and RC debridement. Bilateral biceps tenodesis, along with further labral repairs and acromplasty. And then a corrective tenodesis after a full rupture, one week post surgery. So at this juncture, I am pretty dialed in on what I can and can't do, and what's causing the pain. YMMV.Appreciate the input. Just a friendly reminder, I would like to keep my log a civil place, though spirited debate is promoted, and I thank you each for your valuable input.Happy Thanksgiving all!

    Happy thanksgiving man!

    You've definitely had more work (surgeries) done than I have had, perhaps I'm being too cautious by not going overhead anymore. I hope you don't mind me picking apart your routine and asking questions and such like above. Trying to learn, since I'm in a similar situation atm, and doubt I'll be starting up a log anytime soon. I'm pretty far back in my training, it would be like a PT training log pretty much, don't think that will get much involvement here, so I'll just follow along yours and try some of the things that you're trying I think, for now.

    I've had the labral repair in my left shoulder, subacromial decompression and bicep tenodesis. Right shoulder has mild AC joint arthritis and an unrepaired SLAP tear. Only the right AC joint is causing me issues at times but structurally it's not requiring surgery. I'm getting no pain deep in the side delt on that shoulder or in front, where the bicep tendon attaches, so there's no need for surgery on that side yet.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Happy thanksgiving man!You've definitely had more work (surgeries) done than I have had, perhaps I'm being too cautious by not going overhead anymore. I hope you don't mind me picking apart your routine and asking questions and such like above. Trying to learn, since I'm in a similar situation atm, and doubt I'll be starting up a log anytime soon. I'm pretty far back in my training, it would be like a PT training log pretty much, don't think that will get much involvement here, so I'll just follow along yours and try some of the things that you're trying I think, for now.I've had the labral repair in my left shoulder, subacromial decompression and bicep tenodesis. Right shoulder has mild AC joint arthritis and an unrepaired SLAP tear. Only the right AC joint is causing me issues at times but structurally it's not requiring surgery. I'm getting no pain deep in the side delt on that shoulder or in front, where the bicep tendon attaches, so there's no need for surgery on that side yet.
    Glad to help, E dawg. And you have my correct phone number, bud. I was traveling when you left me a text. Fwiw, i never trained OHPs with any regularity whatsoever, and exactly one year after bilateral SLAP repairs and 3 biceps tendonsis, and 5 months post bilateral epicondylectomies (medial side) and a lateral elbow suture tack and release, and I hit 175 lbs on OHP after a fair amount of work. While I did not injure myself, I did conclude that heavy OHP work is not worth how it leaves me feeling -- chronically in pain -- despite the fact that it renders me yoked as fawked. It's too bad, as I otherwise would be good for a 225+ lbs OHP. In my 20s, I could rep 225 lbs on a seated press for sets of 6-8. But those days are long past me since being diagnosed with a connective tissue disorder.Please know, none of this is bragging, just trying to illuminate things to assist you.Don't know if you celebrate Turkey Day, but if so, have a good one.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate

  23. I started powerlifting just over 2 years back, so my main lifts were bench, deadlift, squat and standing OH press. The standing OHP and bench days were my favorite, but now I can't do either...at least not yet. When I started powerlifting, it really started cleaning up my form, all around. The standing OHP really helped me lock in my core, and to get used to engaging it during big lifts, and keeping it (or trying to keep it) neutral. It also made my traps explode after I started doing them. If you're doing seated OHP, you should try them standing - you'll definitely get more out of the movement that way - pushing your head forward 'through the window' so to speak, really engages the traps at the top. Not sure if you're doing this or seated OHP, but yeah...I really miss doing these, cleans, clean and press, etc. I just want to start training with barbells again period. Oh well, one day again!

    Yeah I'm Canadian and Thanksgiving has passed up there already, but I've been in NYC for 7 years now, so I consider myself a New Yorker now and I live by all the US holidays at this point.

    Btw, those numbers are great. In all the times we've spoken in the past about our medical stuff, I never really knew you were into powerlifting for some reason. I know I'm mainly in for a life of volume training now. I'm just happy to be training again. I don't know how people like Wendler have these types of surgeries and then continue on with their powerlifting careers.

  24. Semantics/pedantics alert: OHPs are always standing with a barbell, unless expressly stated otherwise, i.e., DB OHPs. And they are seated DB or BB presses, and if behind the neck, it's a BTNP.

    And yeah, I knew you were Canadian mate, which is why I asked if you were gonna celebrate.

    As for how the other guys do it, it is because they want it. You can do it too man. My surgeries aren't holding me back, it is my connective tissue syndrome, which means that my tendons will tear again under heavy loads, and even sooner if close to maximal efforts. I was putting up some really good weight last summer, all things considered, just a few months after my 3 shoulder/biceps surgeries.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate

  25. Since you're on TRT, have you thought about cruising on a low dose of EQ to counter your connective tissue disease? I've done this with great results the past year, until I stupidly fell asleep (drunk) on my shoulder, with my arm overhead all night. Woke up with major AC joint pain and impingement, took two months to get rid of that. Hematocrit wasn't an issue on a low dose.

    Btw, what is the name of the issue with your connective tissue? You don't have rheumatoid arthritis do you? I knew about the CNS issue, but not about your connective tissue disease.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Since you're on TRT, have you thought about cruising on a low dose of EQ to counter your connective tissue disease? I've done this with great results the past year, until I stupidly fell asleep (drunk) on my shoulder, with my arm overhead all night. Woke up with major AC joint pain and impingement, took two months to get rid of that. Hematocrit wasn't an issue on a low dose.

    Btw, what is the name of the issue with your connective tissue? You don't have rheumatoid arthritis do you? I knew about the CNS issue, but not about your connective tissue disease.
    Nope. I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Type I, classical form. No consideration of EQ, tren, etc. Perhaps hGH, but only if scripted, which could happen as my doc raised it and GHB at my last appt. But alas, my ANS issues cause blood-sugar issues, so hGH may not be a good fit. I take berberine despite the deleterious impacts on protein synthesis.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate

  27. Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Nope. I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Type I, classical form. No consideration of EQ, tren, etc. Perhaps hGH, but only if scripted, which could happen as my doc raised it and GHB at my last appt. But alas, my ANS issues cause blood-sugar issues, so hGH may not be a good fit. I take berberine despite the deleterious impacts on protein synthesis.
    Yeah I would never touch tren, let alone cruise on it. Horrible stuff. Anything progestin based is just nasty (deca is horrible as well). EQ on the other hand is very mild in my experience, very safe, and boosts collagen synthesis over 340%. From my research, it has even less potential sides than hGH. No carpel tunnel-like issues, no water retention, no blood sugar issues. Great for joints, mood, energy and sex drive/function - which makes sense since it's DHT based. I don't want to sound like I'm preaching haha..but yeah, it was a great experience for myself with little to no sides at all, and I cruised on it for 8 months at various dosages.

    I just looked up berberine, it's main use is for heart issues?

    On the topic of collagen and inflammation, have you ever tried a paleo diet or similar, to control inflammation?

  28. I wouldn't worry about berberine. Forskolin can trigger the AMPK cascade and has studies showing lean muscle mass.

    Edit: worry about blocking protein synthesis that is. I'm a fan.
    Training Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/271254-what-aw-hell.html
    "Jackie Treehorn treats objects like woman man."

  29. It's also fairly easy to get injectable AMP, and legally. Great stuff.

  30. Yeah, not masteron eligible here, on finasteride for vanity and to keep the prostate toned.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate
  

  
 

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