Losing Weight Without Losing Muscle

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Cool Losing Weight Without Losing Muscle


    I am looking for some advice on what my routine should look like. My overall goal is just body fat reduction. I don't care what I weigh, I just want to maintain the muscle I have now (of course I wouldn't mind more...) and lose body fat (basically look amazing without a shirt on. Is that so much to ask?). I have dropped 60 lbs (from 235) in the last year or so but I am no longer making much fat loss progress. My muscles continue to grow but it seems like they are even growing at a slower pace now.

    I am constantly reading about cutting cycles and bulking cycles. Is it not possible to cut fat while building muscle? Cutting is more important to me right now, but not at the expense of the muscle I already have..

    BACKGROUND INFO:

    Age: 25
    Sex: Male
    Weight: 175lbs
    Height: 5'8"
    BF %: approx 21%
    Daily Macro Breakdown: Approx 2200-2500 cal/day - 45% protein, 35% carbs (almost all complex), and 20% fat (mostly unsaturated) and I restrict almost all sugar
    Supplements: Creatine Ethel-Ester, CLA, BCAA's, Fish Oil, Flax Oil, Whey Protein, Nitrix Pills, Ephedrine, and MultiVitamin

    WORKOUT SCHEDULE:

    Mon, Wed, Fri - Intense Weight Lifting for about an hour, 30 minute light swim

    Tues, Thurs, Sat - Run 7 miles on elliptical in 1 hour (Level 15 on the incline & 10 on the resistance) & 45 minute moderate swim

    Sunday - REST & occasional diet cheat


    Please let me know what your thoughts are. How can I speed progress back up? If you need any additional info, let me know. Thanks.

  2. New Member
    Canadianguy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  179 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    140
    Rep Power
    152
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    70.41%

    we all eventually hit a plateau man. by the looks of it youve done a damn good job at this point.

    building muscle adn burning fat at the same time is a very difficult process andtheres a really fine line.

    if u want to burn more fat then your muscle building is gona take a bit of a hit. u can possibly gain a samll amount of muscle but for the most part to rally brun fat youll more less be holding to and maintaining ur hard earned muscle mass.

    id say u mihgt be over training to a degree.

    id separate my cardio sessions from weight sessions by at least 2 meals, roughly 4-6 hours. cardio on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning or before ur last meal before bed.

    ur bf% seems kinda high for what ur describing. ur height weight and u said ur mucle growth is great.

    ur calories are quite low to be building some serious muscle. like i said if u wanna gain muscle and keep pretty lean, thats a combo of good diet and weights/cardio in moderation.
    so basically what im saying is choose one. keep ur muscle where it is and lose some fat or keep ur fat and build ur muscle.

    some ppl im sure are gona have other opinions, thats just my 2 cents.
  3. Senior Member
    SoCo4Fun's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,018
    Rep Power
    589
    Level
    25
    Lv. Percent
    0.32%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    In order to build mass you need a calorie surplus (eat more than you burn during the day)
    In order to lose fat you need a calorie deficit (eat less than you burn during the day)

    Now there are exceptions to this rule but you need to be quite in tune to your body and you need to use supplements to do both at the same time.

    If I were you I would follow the poster above me's advice and stick to one...at your bf% I would cut for a while and then think about bulking.
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    we all eventually hit a plateau man. by the looks of it youve done a damn good job at this point.

    building muscle adn burning fat at the same time is a very difficult process andtheres a really fine line.

    if u want to burn more fat then your muscle building is gona take a bit of a hit. u can possibly gain a samll amount of muscle but for the most part to rally brun fat youll more less be holding to and maintaining ur hard earned muscle mass.

    id say u mihgt be over training to a degree.

    id separate my cardio sessions from weight sessions by at least 2 meals, roughly 4-6 hours. cardio on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning or before ur last meal before bed.

    ur bf% seems kinda high for what ur describing. ur height weight and u said ur mucle growth is great.

    ur calories are quite low to be building some serious muscle. like i said if u wanna gain muscle and keep pretty lean, thats a combo of good diet and weights/cardio in moderation.
    so basically what im saying is choose one. keep ur muscle where it is and lose some fat or keep ur fat and build ur muscle.

    some ppl im sure are gona have other opinions, thats just my 2 cents.
    Thanks for your response. Ya, my priority is definitely maintaining muscle while losing fat. Like i said, muscle growth wouldnt be frowned on, but lean is my priority right now. I'm not trying to claim that I'm super muscular. I just don't want to lose what I DO have.

    Thanks again..
  5. Professional Member
    Rugger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,060
    Rep Power
    4772
    Level
    44
    Lv. Percent
    65.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I think you could go lower on calories. I weight 25# more than you will much less BF and I'm eating about the same calories on a cut. Just my opinion.
  6. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Ok thanks. I could be wrong about the bf%. Ill have it checked today. I havent in a while and I am still losing weight. I may be down a bit by now.

    Any other suggestions anyone?

    -routine differences
    -supps I should add/remove/replace?

    I'm looking for the fastest cut possible while maintaining lean body mass.
  7. Senior Member
    datBtrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,173
    Rep Power
    842
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    57.68%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    Any other suggestions anyone?
    Stop dieting for a while. Give your body a break and just maintain. Heck go ahead and gain back 5 pounds.

    Then you can rechallenge using a better approach such as carb cycling.

    One set of circuit training type routines that are very effective at getting that metabolism churning is p90x. Sounds hoaky but who cares. You can find the videos on the web rather than buying the DVDs and try it out. Disregard their diet advise.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    I'm looking for the fastest cut possible while maintaining lean body mass.
    Peptides, androgens, clen, T3 ...oh my!
  8. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Peptides, androgens, clen, T3 ...oh my!

    Are these something you stack together or just different suggestions?
  9. Senior Member
    datBtrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,173
    Rep Power
    842
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    57.68%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    Is these something you stack together or just different suggestions?
    Nope they aren't suggestions....just mentions...but not suggestions.
  10. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    LoL ok. Thats confusing. What do you SUGGEST then?
  11. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    One set of circuit training type routines that are very effective at getting that metabolism churning is p90x. Sounds hoaky but who cares. You can find the videos on the web rather than buying the DVDs and try it out. Disregard their diet advise.
    I got this downloading now. You're the second or third person to mention it. I typically run as fast as I can in the opposite direction of any fitness/wellness products sold by infomercial, but I have heard good things. I will indeed check it out. Thanks!
  12. New Member
    paulygon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    144
    Rep Power
    157
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    90.82%

    I did a very similar drop. I went from 260 to about 210, and 10.5% BF. I did it with an extremely strict diet, of chicken, veggies, and usually a side dish of health chili- turkey burger, turkey burger patties, or meat loaf i make with turkey burger.

    I cut out all soda of any kind.

    I used Recreate, which evidently my body loves, because that **** is still working after my third bottle, however I also tired LR, which worked great. I stack it with DCP as well, and they seem to work great together.

    I also take green tea extract in the morning and at noon, fish oil three times daily, evening prime rose oil (evidently it helps, or at least thats what Cutler preaches, lol), CLA, and Super Cissus.

    I eat 5-6 times a day, 4-5oz chicken, half cup veggies, and then usually a little slice of meat loaf, a turkey burger, or 1/4 chili.--Seems to work, and for breakfast I have a packet of low sugar, apple and cinn. oatmeal and a shake of 40 grams of ProComplex.

    For workouts i use Teamskip from TP.com, i love this ****. 30 grams, mixed with 11-13 grams of their synthetic carb, 4 grams of Beta Alainine, and 4-5 grams BCAA's. This has really helped my workouts, i take this concoction before and after i hit the gym.

    Um my workouts are very structured, Running a 5 on 1 off, or 4 on 2 off, depending on how heavy i am going.

    I say cut your running down considerably. I have read a few articles that link fat retention to running a lot. Cut that **** down to about 2-3 times a week. I have done a good deal of my cutting without running that often.

    Make our workouts intense and very driven, keeping your heart pumped the whole time, then you don't have to run as much.

    Keep the fat down, but not out, cutting it out will kill your muscle.

    Don't cheat. Ever. Rule your body with an iron fist, and you will see results.

    Good luck, and remember it isn't about the lbs, it is about the BF%, don't think weight, think BF!

    Pauly
  13. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852765
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.85%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Peptides, androgens, clen, T3 ...oh my!
    you left out dnp
  14. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852765
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.85%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    lower your carbs, raise your fats with all healthy fats, go heavy on MCTs (coconut oil primarily) if you want to continue to just drop weight. But I agree with datbrute that doing a short term cautious bulk may be the best thing, raise your calories to around 3000-3200 while maintaining your current regimen for 6 weeks. Also, maybe just switching up the workout routine in general may help get over a plateua whether it is fat loss or muscle gain
  15. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5604
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    99.34%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    you left out dnp
    haha, good catch.

    To the OP: idk if anyone has mentioned it yet, but I've found that Anabolic Pump is very decent at retaining muscle while in a caloric deficit. IMO, it's a great supp. all around.
  16. New Member
    MattRoeske's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  206 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    286
    Rep Power
    237
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    56.57%

    paulygon
    I say cut your running down considerably. I have read a few articles that link fat retention to running a lot. Cut that **** down to about 2-3 times a week. I have done a good deal of my cutting without running that often.

    I have learned about that in class, basically what you're doing is storing that fat till the next time you run those 7miles, Do you eat anything before you run even some sort of snack?
    Because of lack of something in your stomache means your burning off the muscle you worked so hard for, I did that for 3 weeks HIT on an Empty stomache thinking it was the correct way... And i started to shrink and shrink and shrink, Not loosing primarily fat, but Muscle :-/ But now im back at 174 and like 9% Bf So its all good.

    Do you know how many calories your burning? Or have a heart rate monitor to chart that, and how much from fat?

    Also congrats to the weight loss at one time i was 220 - and then lost 50 lbs
    But after that it becomes very hard it comes down to diet and working out effectively, and smart,
    That is where the general public is confused and thinks if they arent dieing then they aren't doing anything,
    but most of my clients break a small sweat and burn usually 50-70% of their calories from fat when we are working out, and remember it takes 3500fat calories to burn one lb of fat.

    And with your cardio you have understand the 5 different zones.
    To get the most effective fat burning zones, U hit Zone1-3

    And this coming from my clients as witnesses, i started personal training 1.5 months ago and knew nothing about that.
    My client Raymundo has lost eleven pounds in 3 weeks. It's very effective when you train in the correct zones, primarily from fat.

    I incorporated a website which should be helpful for you to calculate your heart rate needed
    Training With 5 Exercise Heart Rate Training Zones
    and Also check Out Polar Heart Rate monitors we use them at Xsport, as well as they are used at Lifetime Fitness ( a very effective fat burning tool )
  17. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    The elliptical says I'm burning about 750 calories during that hour. I don't know how much fat I'm burning. My heartrate averages about 140 during that time, but I throw in some sprints every 10 minutes or so that gets it up to about 160-165bpm.
  18. New Member
    MattRoeske's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  206 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    286
    Rep Power
    237
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    56.57%

    Well heres what makes it interesting, with that, The eliptical is saying you're burning 750 per hour, but... Usually 30% from fat, and unless you have a direct monitor to your heart, it isn't giving you your direct reading because it is going thru your hand, not at your heart, thus its a possibility to have a lower heart rate in your hand then your chest, thus meaning a possible blood clot. And if you're putting your finger on your throat you're getting your pulse rate- not heart rate :P

    Check out the polar's for $100 it's one hell of an investment. Because right now you're fitting into the people who waste to much time killing themself, and i don't want you to be
  19. Advanced Member
    atjnutrition2's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    609
    Rep Power
    386
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    55.58%

    In regards to your cardio, I would say cut from the long distance cardio into shorter sprint/interval sessions. Sure the longer cardio burns raises your metabolism higher/longer while you're doing it, but the sprint/interval type workout keeps it higher for longer throughout the day. For an example of the results of this in the real world, look at the difference in body types of sprinters versus long distance runners. Sure their bf% are probably very close to the same, but the difference in muscle mass is quite dramatic. Long distance cardio at a steady state tends to be very good at waisting your hard earned muscle mass, while sprint work utilizes a different muscle fiber type while not burning muscle for fuel. I would suggest not much longer than 30 min. sessions of high intensity sprints while walking in between each individual sprint. That's my .02 anyway. It worked for me while getting ready for my first BB show. I dropped 30+ lbs in 12 weeks while losing very little of my muscle mass.
  20. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Thanks a lot guys. This is great information. This is exactly what I was looking for. I love this community. So much knowledge is so easily accessible.

    And to Matt - I check my heartrate using a reebok watch that has it built in. I don't know if that makes a difference. That and the HR monitor on the elliptical are usually pretty close to one another. Unless I'm sweating too much on the machine. LoL
  21. New Member
    MattRoeske's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  206 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    286
    Rep Power
    237
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    56.57%

    Haha sounds like a plan man, good luck if you ever got questions just shoot me a message.
  22. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Any thoughts on adding some USPLabs Anabolic Pump & Recreate to my regiment?

    I'm seeing lots of good reviews, but I know USP has a tendency to whore out their free product in exchange for those. Lol.

    GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS!!!
  23. New Member
    paulygon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    144
    Rep Power
    157
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    90.82%

    I say go with the recreate, just make sure your diet is in check before you start anything. I think people feel their is a magic pill they take and the fat flies off, but it just isn't true.

    I actually had a guy the other night ask me what I did to lose weight, cut, whatever you wana call it. I told him, "diet, relentless, unwavering diet." His response was, "thats exactly what I didn't want to hear." I was a little thrown off by this, but I think is the general population's sentiment. Everyone wants the effect, but isn't willing to put in the time for the cause. -- Sorry to go off on a tangent.

    Use Recreate, i have had great results from it. Stack it with green tea extract and DCP. I also had great results on LR.

    I have never used Anabolic Pump, so I guess my question is the same as your's in regards to that sup.

    Pauly
  24. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Pauly - Thanks for your input. Can you describe your experience with recreate a little for me?

    As far as diet goes - I have really cleaned it up lately. I believe that I have a good macro balance with very clean calories. I've dropped about 60 lbs over the last year and people at work keep wanting to know what my magic pill is as well. No one wants to work for results. Those are the people that drive me in the gym. Oh, and my girlfriend who told me I would never be able to look like some of the people on these boards because of my "genetics". **** that. I'm doing it.

    I'm just hoping to find something that will help me off this plateau I've hit..
  25. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852765
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.85%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    really just change things up for 4-6 weeks. that should break the plateau regardless of supplements.
  26. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    change things up how? Do I really have to bulk now before I can continue to cut?
  27. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852765
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.85%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    not really, but make a significant shift in workout routine and diet for a little while. go to a sub 75g of carbs a day diet, change your rep ranges (up or down doesn't matter), switch from barbells to dumbbells, etc. its more about breaking your body's adaptation to your current regimen. bulking a little first would not hurt, but you dont have to.

    its hard to switch to bulking, I know. I was 245 a year and a half ago at like 50% bf having done nothing for physical activity for almost 20 years (since high school ended).... I got as low as 185 and around 15-16% bf, and have now bulked back up to 200 at the same bodyfat, and will go a little higher before starting a slow measured cut to get to 10% or so. this last month of bulking has not been easy
  28. New Member
    paulygon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    144
    Rep Power
    157
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    90.82%

    I like recreate because it doesn't give me the stim feeling others do. It is a controlled feeling. Their aren't really any "experiences", no jitters, no craziness. I just am not as hungry, and my body likes whatever else is in recreate and rewards me by losing fat. I don't know what else to tell ya. It is good ****e.

    Also DCP- warms me up and really keeps me sweaty during a workout. --Helps with the whole fat loss.

    It is good stuff.

    Also, you're not alone. I have been told I would never get where I am as well. Genetics is huge, don't get me wrong, but you can outwit them.

    Be sure to drink lots of water with any supplement you take, like DCP, Recreate, anything like that, helps to keep your liver and kidneys happy.

    Also, try increasing your carbs hard core one day. Research carb loading. Once your body is kinda shot, and has gotten accustomed to your new diet, it will level off. To help break this, I will go to a Sunday brunch buffet, and eat myself retarded, then go to the gym and lift as heavy as I can. This usually helps me press the reset button on my body. Or flip flop, for a week, try to eat more carbs, and kinda trick your body that way. Do a little poking around on the site, and you will see a ton of ideas. I like the brunch.

    Switch up your workouts every 4-6 weeks. Do something a little different. I actually like to switch it up a little each workout. I stick to the same core, but with little stuff I like to switch. Take shoulders for instance, I have kind of a solid idea of what i need to do: Press, rear delt, full body press, side raises, rear delt. So usually i start with a rear delt after I warm up, sometimes flies, sometimes iso, or bent over cable cross. For my presses i like seat military -behind the neck one week, infront the next, seated dumbbell, smith machine press, arnolds. For my body press I like to do clean and presses, or push presses. Side raises i go between cable in front, cable behind, dumbbell, laying on my side, etc. And then whatever i didn't do for my rear delt in the beginning i do at the end. Rear delts are a stick point for me, so i have to work them harder to get growth. But as you can see, i have a lot of different stuff that gets all the same jobs done, so i switch it up every week or every other, that way I never really see a long lasting stall in growth.

    Just a thought- make a list of exercises you can do for each body part, then make a schedule of when you want to switch it up, or when you are going to do something new. Keep a log of everything. I have logs dating back from when I was a senior in high school.
  29. New Member
    MattRoeske's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  206 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    286
    Rep Power
    237
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    56.57%

    Plateaus are very common, Try Diff rep variations, For Example... Slower/Faster Tempo, Supersets (One Set right after the other to keep your heart up as well as burning calories, best for staying lean), Tri Sets (3 Sets in a row something like front raises,lat raises, rear delt raises/presses), Drop Sets (Hitting heavy on the 6-8 reps then dropping the weight off by about 1/2 and hitting it hard with 10-15reps, great for exhaustion and last sets of your workout), or Dumbbell to Barbell, or Inc More Machines, or Diff Angles, For Example if you always do Hammer Curls or Bicep Curls standing try on an incline bench, Those are the good ones.
  30. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    You guys rock my world. Thanks for all the great advice. I'm stoked again. I've been slowly losing motivation as this plateau has grown longer and longer. Now I'm pumped to try these new things and beat this. For myself, and all the haters/naysayers out there.
  31. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    I have a quick question for anyone who knows the answer...

    I'm trying to cut right now while preserving (or gaining) muscle. So naturally I decided to go with an AP/Recreate stack. I have heard rave reviews about these products individually and even better while they are stacked. The only thing I hear negatively (in my opinion) about the Recreate is in the energy and appetite suppressant categories. Now, I've been an ephedrine/stimulant junkie for a while now, and because I don't get much sleep, I rely on my stims to get me through my work day alert and focused. Is it a problem to take a low dose of ephedrine or hydroxycut in the mornings with these USP products? I just don't want to hurt my stack progress or my body.

    Other supps i take in case it matters or you have any advice include:
    -Fish Oil
    -Flax Seed Oil
    -Multi-Vitamin
    -Creatine (I have both ethel-ester and Pre-Alkalyn 1500. Which should I be using?)
    -Protein Shakes
    -BCAA's (approx 20g/day)
    -3300 Elite (hi-healths version of Nitrix by BSN)
  32. Senior Member
    datBtrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,173
    Rep Power
    842
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    57.68%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    ...I'm trying to cut right now while preserving (or gaining) muscle. So naturally I decided to go with an AP/Recreate stack.
    Naturally. Goes without saying bro... I mean who in their right mind would attempt such a thing without that stack ...I shudder to think.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    Now, I've been an ephedrine/stimulant junkie for a while now, and because I don't get much sleep, I rely on my stims to get me through my work day alert and focused. Is it a problem to take a low dose of ephedrine or hydroxycut in the mornings with these USP products? I just don't want to hurt my stack progress or my body.
    Here is the root of your entire problem bro. If you would have mentioned it to begin with we could have simplified the advise.

    STOP using stimulants. STOP relying on ephedrine for weight loss. STOP dosing all stimulants...let your body recover first before you continue on.


    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    Other supps i take in case it matters or you have any advice include:
    -Fish Oil
    -Flax Seed Oil
    -Multi-Vitamin
    -Creatine (I have both ethel-ester and Pre-Alkalyn 1500. Which should I be using?)
    -Protein Shakes
    -BCAA's (approx 20g/day)
    -3300 Elite (hi-healths version of Nitrix by BSN)
    Supps aren't what is gonna get it done bro. The fish oil & multi-vitamin should part of your daily diet... everything else is just "everything else".
  33. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Hey, dat.

    Thanks for all the sarcasm. That will help me to have a better day and I assume it has already made you feel much better about yourself...

    By naturally, I didn't mean it couldn't be done without supps, i just meant, if i was looking for a supp stack to help, that was a pretty good and/or obvious choice from everything I have read about it.

    Nowhere did I mention that I rely on stims for fat loss, and I dont. I just live an extremely strenuous lifestyle and work a **** ton of hours and the only way for me to get more sleep would be to cut out my gym time. So I use stims to allow me to stay alert and focused while I am on the clock. The "Junkie" term was just a joke to let you know I've used them for a while. I take them first thing in the morning when I get up and that's it.

    ...And I'm sure you're right. Protein, creatine, and BCAA's are just "everything else". They are not at all staples for building/preserving muscle. My bad...
  34. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852765
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.85%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    really too though, inadequate sleep robs you of the ability to maximize muscle growth. So i'd defintiely stick with separate bulk phase and cut phase as you will need the help if you arent getting 8 hours + a nite.
  35. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    Thanks easy.

    I am cutting. Not bulking. But I am just trying to cut without losing muscle. Simple as that. Want to get my bf% down while maintaining what muscle i have.

    Really all I was wondering was about the effect the stims and the USP products might have on each other...

    Of course, being fairly new to all this, I am ALWAYS open for advice and constructive criticism, assuming it can be done without trying to make people feel stupid... ::cough cough::
  36. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    On a side note, dat, I know you are a well respected member of this community and I don't mean to knock that. Just use some tact man. Don't make people afraid to ask questions by answering them with sarcasm and rudeness.

    LEARN, TEACH, LEAD
  37. Senior Member
    datBtrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,173
    Rep Power
    842
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    57.68%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    Hey, dat.

    Thanks for all the sarcasm. That will help me to have a better day and I assume it has already made you feel much better about yourself...
    No bro. I'm just tired of the supplement mind set bleeding over into all things bodybuilding. I'm tired of getting asked on all boards IF this CJC stuff will help me lose all of my fat in one month. My answer is NO. Then I get "right Dat but what do you think of this dose or that stack will that do it."

    Quick fixes...and hope. Thats what people are buying most of the time.

    Then I pick up a MD magazine and I see an ad that claims Powerful is "just like & even better than Growth Hormone"...

    I'm not bagging on this company...shoot I bought up plenty of Powerful when it was sold in bulk by NP. But its not better than GH.

    SO now I'm suppose to apologize because I hurt your feelings. But let me ask you did you ever post up your diet in this thread?

    I understand you posted the macros but you never identified the foods you eat and meal structures. You don't think its important?

    I know you want to use AP but have you ever used a glucose disposal agent? Have you ever manipulated the Glycemic load with fiber?

    Do you know what carbs make the smallest impact on blood glucose? For that matter what is your normal blood glucose pattern between meals?

    What is your meal spacing?

    At what points during your day do you expend the most energy? Do you match those moments in time with the proper fuel?

    At what points in the day are you using carbs for energy? When are you using fat for energy?

    Do you eat a lot of eggs? Are you natural or are you a steroid user? Again do you eat eggs?

    Are you using high GI carbs PWO or mid GI carbs post workout?

    Do you rely on shakes for meals? Does the protein you use have an impact on blood glucose levels or is it slower digesting. If you use a shake why do you use it in place of whole foods?

    Blah, blah, blah...

    Diet is important.

    AND IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED WHEN THINGS STALL!

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    Nowhere did I mention that I rely on stims for fat loss, and I dont. I just live an extremely strenuous lifestyle and work a **** ton of hours and the only way for me to get more sleep would be to cut out my gym time. So I use stims to allow me to stay alert and focused while I am on the clock. The "Junkie" term was just a joke to let you know I've used them for a while. I take them first thing in the morning when I get up and that's it.
    E everyday is not good. IF you are taking it every morning it doesn't matter what you call it. It is not good.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    ...And I'm sure you're right. Protein, creatine, and BCAA's are just "everything else". They are not at all staples for building/preserving muscle. My bad...
    No whole foods are the staples. I rarely ever use a protein shake. I'm not alone. But believe what you want bro.

    You were correct about one thing. I had no business sticking my nose into your thread and abusing your illusions.

    Finally bro you don't owe me any respect so please don't give it to me. If you feel like saying f@ck off Dat...then do it. Here I'll do it for you ..."Dat go f@ck yourself! You are one condescending muthaf@cker. What you think I didn't already know all that? I was asking about supplements. This is for you Dat"

    Feel better? I do. That was kinda fun. "Dat you are a condescending muthaf@cker." Yep I think I kinda is!

    Come on bro lighten up ...I already have.
  38. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    dat,

    I just want to give you a quick response and then be done with the pissing contest.

    First of all, I have worked my ass off in the gym for the last year to finally do something about my weight problem. In fact, I recently realized I was overtraining and working MUCH HARDER than I even needed to. I tell you this because it bothers me that you are so quick to lump me into the category of fat lazy f#cks that want a magic pill to make them Muscle Mag's cover model. I don't and I am not at all afraid to shed some blood, sweat, and tears for results.

    Also, I do not in any way try and portray myself as a fitness expert, physiology brainiac, or nutritionist. I have done a lot of reading and research on the things that interest and pertain to me and my goals, but there is a vast amount of knowledge left for me to soak up. That's why I spend at least an hour a day browsing the AM forums.

    But let me ask you did you ever post up your diet in this thread?
    No I did not. I asked a question. That was merely it. If i did not provide enough info for you to answer it, then by all means, let me know what I neglected and I would gladly provide the necessary info.

    You were correct about one thing. I had no business sticking my nose into your thread and abusing your illusions.
    I never claimed you had no business in my thread. I'd be a fool to post something in a public domain and not want people to get involved. It sucks that the "one thing I was right about" was something I didn't even say, nor do I feel that way...

    Finally bro you don't owe me any respect so please don't give it to me. If you feel like saying f@ck off Dat...then do it. Here I'll do it for you ..."Dat go f@ck yourself! You are one condescending muthaf@cker. What you think I didn't already know all that? I was asking about supplements. This is for you Dat"

    Feel better? I do. That was kinda fun. "Dat you are a condescending muthaf@cker." Yep I think I kinda is!
    This is not at all what I was intending to say to you. In fact I believe just a few posts ago in this thread I thanked you and all the other responders for the wealth of information and encouragement. I do respect you and everyone else in this community that has the dedication to the sport of bodybuilding or just nutrition/health in general. Like I said, I spend hours browsing this and other sites trying to soak up a small percentage of what you and others like you already know. It is worthy of respect.

    Really, all in all, I was merely pointing out that when you do attack someone with sarcasm and make them feel stupid for asking a question, it is only going to encourage people to go out and buy supplements they know nothing about, but are too afraid to ask so they trust product marketing campaigns. Its exactly what you said you are tired of, yet your lack of tact enforces it.

    I asked the same question in a different AP thread and this is the response I got from Mullet. The funny thing is, he advises pretty much the same thing, just in a much more considerate way:

    SD,

    Many of the complaints from ReCreate, ironically, stem from users who have used the more stimulant-based ECA stack. I say ironic, as such a stack, while effective, is often counterproductive in the context of fat loss. Sleep is the greatest aid to both muscle preservation and fat loss - beyond what any supplement may contribute. Keeping that in mind, we deliberately designed ReCreate to supersede these adverse effects. In my opinion, I would avoid the EC/Hydroxycut, and enjoy the undisturbed sleep one may attain with ReCreate.

    In terms of focus and energy, ReCreate provides clean sustainable energy via endogenous beta-2 agonism. Rather than synthetically stimulate adrenergic (energy) receptors, ReCreate increases levels of the master adrenergic hormone and neurotransmitter - Norepinephrine. This produces very clean, very sustainable energy without the crash which comes adjacent with most fat-burners.

    Further, ReCreate increases levels of the active T3, and promotes conversion of the somewhat inactive T4. This obviously produces affect on nutrient metabolism, but significantly contributes to stable energy levels as well. I think if you were to cut out the more 'hardcore stimulants' for some time, you would actually realize your need for them was born out of adrenergic fatigue!

    This all creates a confluent effect on fat loss - both direct stimulation of lipolysis (fat loss) via the above mentioned mechanisms, but also by utilizing the body's already VERY potent fat loss mechanisms. Some may not realize it, but your body liberates stored triglycerides into Fatty Acids during the night. It is known as nightime lipolysis. Without adequate levels of sleep, this process is perturbed, and you miss out on all that fat loss! I guarantee you: Lay off the stimulants for awhile, and you will NOT be disappointed with ReCreate.
  39. Senior Member
    datBtrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,173
    Rep Power
    842
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    57.68%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    I really like Mullet. He's very knowledgeable...even tempered...patient... with the ability to kick some @ss when appropriate.

    Of course he is more considerate. You're a potential customer.

    I on the other hand have nothing to sell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyDraven View Post
    That's why I spend at least an hour a day browsing the AM forums.
    Do yourself a favor. Skip all of the reading on supplements on this forum for lets say the last couple of years and go back into the archive. Look for posts by Bobo...you'll learn a lot & from them you'll pick up on a few other knowledgable guys including the very knowledgeable "alan aragon". All those posts/threads from back then are gold brother.

    I learned a long time ago that it doesn't matter what the intent was...what matters is how it was perceived. You perceived my comments as making you "feel stupid for asking a question". So I apologize. I do not think you are a fat lazy bastard. I know that you are someone who has made very good gains in your transformation. I am not belittling you. To the extent that I have come across as diminishing you or your efforts I apologize.

    I like you. I respect you. No worries bro.
  40. New Member
    SimplyDraven's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    138
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    93.03%

    I really appreciate the response man. Thanks for clearing up the drama. LoL.

    Do yourself a favor. Skip all of the reading on supplements on this forum for lets say the last couple of years and go back into the archive. Look for posts by Bobo...you'll learn a lot & from them you'll pick up on a few other knowledgable guys including the very knowledgeable "alan aragon". All those posts/threads from back then are gold brother.
    I will definitely take your advice on that. I'm even going to try really hard not to picture "Bobo" as a grown man with big floppy shoes, a red foam nose, and white face paint, that goes around touching little boys.

    Thanks for the props on the gains (or good losses actually). I appreciate it.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Losing weight with HCG. Next want to gain muscle!
    By FreshlyBlend in forum Bulking
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-23-2010, 04:32 AM
  2. New here, losing weight.
    By 03SVTCobra in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-04-2009, 02:03 PM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-03-2009, 07:51 PM
  4. Help im losing to much weight
    By jspillane08 in forum Bulking
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-29-2008, 01:26 PM
  5. please help with losing weight and gaining muscle mass
    By aintfrreshazi in forum Bulking
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-20-2007, 09:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in