Tylenol and Advil vs. Protein Synthesis...how bad do they inhibit? - AnabolicMinds.com

Tylenol and Advil vs. Protein Synthesis...how bad do they inhibit?

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    Tylenol and Advil vs. Protein Synthesis...how bad do they inhibit?


    I have seen this come up at bb.com before but I have never really seen anyone give real world numbers as to how much it will actually effect gains. For someone in the know on this subject can you help to quantify what kind of inhibiting results will really come out of using these products and their effect on protein.

    This is America after all and we consume pain meds like candy!

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    so you wanna know how bad pain killers are for protein synthesis, aye??

    From the June 2001 issue of Muscle Media, "Research Update" by David Kennedy.

    I interject my commentary to make it easier for the bros here that are not science buffs

    Q: "Will using common over-the-counter analgesics like ibuprofen and acetaminophen negetively affect muscle growth?"

    A:"Dr. Todd A Trappe abd collegues from the Unervisty of Arkansas for Medical Sciences and the University of California, Berkeley, examined the effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on muscle protein metabolism following high-intensity resistance exercise.  The researchers randomly assigned 24 males to one of three groups that received either the maximal OTC dose of ibuprofen (1200mg/day), acetaminophen (4000mg/day) or a placebo following 10 to 14 sets of 10 heavy eccentric repetitions on a leg-extension machine..."

    so some bros were told to bust their ass doing high-volume negatives on leg extensons and then take some pain killers or a placebo....sounds good.

    "....Results showed that post-exercise muscle protein synthesis increaesd by an average of 76% in the placebo group..."

    "....but was, disturbingly, UNCHANGED, in the groups taking acetaminophen or ibuprofen...."

    AWW CRAP!!....no change in protein synthesis...in other words, the pain killers STOPPED MUSCLE GROWTH....that can't be good

    "...These results suggest that both ibuprofen and acetaminophen suppress skeletal muscle protein synthesis following eccentric exercise...and may work through a common mechanism to influence protein metabolism in skeletal muscle."

    In other words...it keeps you from growing, AND could use muscle proteins for energy (not good at all)....

    So do yourself (and your muscles) a favor and kick the Tylenol and Advil to the curb

    This should help a great deal.

     

    LG.
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    OK, thanks LG. It still seems exagerated that you would not grow at all! I mean I have grown a lot while using them and so have a hundreds of thousands of others. In the study they were using EXTREME amounts of pain killers. So again, I am still wanting to know how much would infrequent, normal dosages of painkillers really effect gains?
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    personally I dont think it would effect it that much (if at all) of you took them every once in a while (i.e.once a week or something like that) and at a lower dosage...

    I think that in that study....the scientists had the subjects take the full days dose at one time....sounds like that to me....

     

    LG.
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    I have been using ibuprofin as an anti-inflamatory, about 20 pills a day for shin splints and foot pain, can't be helping me in the least. Anyone have a suggestion for an anti-inflamatory?
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    Originally posted by BigBenn
    I have been using ibuprofin as an anti-inflamatory, about 20 pills a day for shin splints and foot pain, can't be helping me in the least. Anyone have a suggestion for an anti-inflamatory?
     

    Ummmm.....Naproxen Sodium (Aleive) might be good....I think....

     

     

    LG.
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    Originally posted by BigBenn
    I have been using ibuprofin as an anti-inflamatory, about 20 pills a day for shin splints and foot pain, can't be helping me in the least. Anyone have a suggestion for an anti-inflamatory?
    Vioxx! Not to go off topic but Medial Tibial Stress Syndrom (shin splints) are ****ty, as you already know. But do you have stress fractures also or do you know? You may need X-Rays if you havent had them yet. Ice massages are kick ass for pain relief and a momentary cure of shin splints. (Get a paper cup fill it up with water, put it in the fridge and when it freezes take it out and cut half the cup away so its half ice, half cup, then you can rub the ice end up and down your medial-anterior tibia for shin splints and thats one of the best treatments, we do it with all our athletes for shin splints) Foot pronation is the leading cause for shin splints, so you might want to check into a custom orthtics Ben, that'll help prevent any worsening. Ok, now back to the topic...

    Im with Jake, I think this is highly over rated, but if they conclude its hampering synthesis of protein, theres always Nubian
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    Originally posted by BigBenn
    I have been using ibuprofin as an anti-inflamatory, about 20 pills a day for shin splints and foot pain, can't be helping me in the least. Anyone have a suggestion for an anti-inflamatory?
    It depends on your needs...Because you are popping so many damn ibuprofen, the pain must be pretty severe. Go to a doctor and get him to write you a prescription for Vioxx, or get him to give you some free samples. Vioxx isn't abused so it shouldn't be an issue for him to give it to you.

    If you want to stick it out with OTCs, go for Aleve.

    Good luck bro.
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    yep yep, just went for orthotics mold the other day, should be here tuesday, so I have just been downing pills till that takes care of it. I'm not sure if you remember me complaining of that foot pain, but it seems to have subsided a bit, and the foot doc says it most likely has to do with my pronation. I will try the aleve.
    Originally posted by YellowJacket


    Vioxx! Not to go off topic but Medial Tibial Stress Syndrom (shin splints) are ****ty, as you already know. But do you have stress fractures also or do you know? You may need X-Rays if you havent had them yet. Ice massages are kick ass for pain relief and a momentary cure of shin splints. (Get a paper cup fill it up with water, put it in the fridge and when it freezes take it out and cut half the cup away so its half ice, half cup, then you can rub the ice end up and down your medial-anterior tibia for shin splints and thats one of the best treatments, we do it with all our athletes for shin splints) Foot pronation is the leading cause for shin splints, so you might want to check into a custom orthtics Ben, that'll help prevent any worsening. Ok, now back to the topic...

    Im with Jake, I think this is highly over rated, but if they conclude its hampering synthesis of protein, theres always Nubian
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    hmm, I had orthotics when I was younger for flat feet.

    Anyway ,

    It just so happens that I use Aleve and love it, but I agree that the study, when translated into "real world" results, probably shouldn't merit throwing away your tylenol, if you use that crap.

    The subjects were give 1200mg tylenol post workout. Considering that this is usually not the case for most taking OTC pain relievers (at least it shouldn't be, and if it is, you have issues!), we can't come to the conclusion that irregular doses of acetaminophen will inhibit protein synthesis to the same degree. With that in mind, just don't take large amounts of tylenol or Bayer post workout and you'll be OK. My opinion anyway
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    Very interesting. I never knew this I have learned something new today. WW7 keep it up man. You keep on with the enlightenment there bro.
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    Helpful, too. YJ's not as big an ******* as he let's on.
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    Another vote for Vioxx... and ditch the standard ibuprofen if you're taking a ridiculous daily dose. Pick up an NSAID like Celebrex or Mobic. Gotta think of the internals, ya know?

    Just a comment on this... When I started a few friends on a new/awkward to them routine, I also had a couple try out using my little pre-workout concoction. It was basically 600 - 800 mg ibuprofen, with at least 300mg caffeine, or more, before every workout. The gains seen between all friends over the course of 12 weeks were almost identical. This was on a 3 day / week split, all ectomorphs as well. Same deal for myself... never seen a change between being on pain meds and being off, and I take 1 celebrex or mobic every 12 hours, in addition to an occasional 600 mg ibuprofen(probably 2 or 3 times a week.) Then add in the pre-workout concoction and theres a big ol' dosing of light pain meds. Tried not taking them for a few weeks, and all I got was lots of pains, no additional gains I wouldn't put much stock in pain meds having a drastic affect on muscle growth... though as with everything else, there are exceptions.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
     

    theres always Nubian
    How did I know that was coming????

     

    LG.
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    Food for thought on the use of NSAIDs and training. WW7
    <P class=byline><B>By Dr. Phil Maffetone</B>

    Many athletes are frequently injured and often rely heavily on non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) to control symptoms, and indirectly, to control performance.
    <P class=text>These substances are the most commonly recommended and prescribed drugs in the world. While their use may not correct a particular injury, it often decreases discomfort or pain, and allows the continuation of training and racing (which can further worsen the problem).
    <P class=text>If NSAIDs make you feel better, it may be due to an imbalance in your eicosanoid system. Aspirin, and all other NSAIDS, including Advil, Motrin, Naprosyn and Nuprin, function by temporarily blocking an enzyme required to produce inflammatory series 2 eicosanoids. While this reduces the proinflammatory eicosanoids, these drugs also eliminate anti-inflammatory series 1 and 3 eicosanoids along with their beneficial properties. This may result in an improvement of symptoms, but it also turns off the important anti-inflammatory mechanism.
    <P class=text>The potential danger from the continued use of aspirin and other NSAIDs can be extensive. The side effects range from muscle dysfunction and exercise-associated muscle damage, to impaired cartilage repair, impaired fracture healing, and suppression of melatonin and disturbances in sleep patterns. NSAIDs also come with the side effect of intestinal bleeding, which occurs most of the time, with the risk of ulcers.
    <P class=text>Ask yourself if you need to take drugs like aspirin or other NSAIDS to feel better. If they do make you feel better, you can be almost certain that your body is not making enough of its own anti-inflammatory chemicals. In other words, you have a possible imbalance of eicosanoids.
    <P class=text>It's possible to achieve the same anti-inflammatory effects as NSAIDs through properly balancing the fats in your diet. Increasing your omega-3 fats through the diet or supplementing with EPA fish oil or flaxseed oil, such as that in Nature's Dose Anti-Inflammatory Complex, may help balance your eicosanoids, allowing your body to produce more of its own anti-inflammatory chemicals. In doing so, you'll improve your recovery from training and racing.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    [B] NSAIDs also come with the side effect of intestinal bleeding, which occurs most of the time, with the risk of ulcers.
    &nbsp;
    Heh, that's why I suggested Celebrex and Mobic as NSAIDs of choice. They are actually COX-2 inhibitors, versus standard NSAIDs, and have very low risks of gastrointestinal side-effects.

    &nbsp;

    ... in a hurry, but I'll post later with a good article on 'em
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    [BIt's possible to achieve the same anti-inflammatory effects as NSAIDs through properly balancing the fats in your diet. [/B]
    Hmm....I dont think comparing an essential fatty acid to a synthetic anti-inflammatory is a fair one
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Hmm....I dont think comparing an essential fatty acid to a synthetic anti-inflammatory is a fair one
    Nor do I bro. But you can reduce your need overall I would guess.
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    can u take a pain killer while on hdrol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeguard View Post
    so you wanna know how bad pain killers are for protein synthesis, aye??

    From the June 2001 issue of Muscle Media, "Research Update" by David Kennedy.

    I interject my commentary to make it easier for the bros here that are not science buffs

    Q: "Will using common over-the-counter analgesics like ibuprofen and acetaminophen negetively affect muscle growth?"

    A:"Dr. Todd A Trappe abd collegues from the Unervisty of Arkansas for Medical Sciences and the University of California, Berkeley, examined the effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on muscle protein metabolism following high-intensity resistance exercise.&nbsp; The researchers randomly assigned 24 males to one of three groups that received either the maximal OTC dose of ibuprofen (1200mg/day), acetaminophen (4000mg/day) or a placebo following 10 to 14 sets of 10&nbsp;heavy eccentric repetitions on a leg-extension machine..."

    so some bros were told to bust their ass doing high-volume&nbsp;negatives on leg extensons and then take some pain killers or a placebo....sounds good.

    "....Results showed that post-exercise muscle protein synthesis increaesd by an average of 76% in the placebo group..."

    "....but was, disturbingly, UNCHANGED, in the groups taking acetaminophen or ibuprofen...."

    AWW CRAP!!....no change in protein synthesis...in other words, the pain killers STOPPED MUSCLE GROWTH....that can't be good

    "...These results suggest that both ibuprofen and acetaminophen suppress skeletal muscle protein synthesis following eccentric exercise...and may work through a common mechanism to influence protein metabolism in skeletal muscle."

    In other words...it keeps you from growing, AND could use muscle proteins for energy (not good at all)....

    So do yourself (and your muscles)&nbsp;a favor and kick the Tylenol and Advil to the curb

    This should help a great deal.

    &nbsp;

    LG.

    Maxmium daily doses will effect muscular gain.
    Regular doses will not.

    Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2008 Jun;33(3):470-5.
    The effects of ibuprofen on muscle hypertrophy, strength, and soreness during resistance training.
    Krentz JR, Quest B, Farthing JP, Quest DW, Chilibeck PD.

    High doses of ibuprofen have been shown to inhibit muscle protein synthesis after a bout of resistance exercise. We determined the effect of a moderate dose of ibuprofen (400 mg.d-1) consumed on a daily basis after resistance training on muscle hypertrophy and strength. Twelve males and 6 females (~24 years of age) trained their right and left biceps on alternate days (6 sets of 4-10 repetitions), 5 d.week-1, for 6 weeks. In a counter-balanced, double-blind design, they were randomized to receive 400 mg.d-1 ibuprofen immediately after training their left or right arm, and a placebo after training the opposite arm the following day. Before- and after-training muscle thickness of both biceps was measured using ultrasound and 1 repetition maximum (1 RM) arm curl strength was determined on both arms. Subjects rated their muscle soreness daily. There were time main effects for muscle thickness and strength (p < 0.01). Ibuprofen consumption had no effect on muscle hypertrophy (muscle thickness of biceps for arm receiving ibuprofen: pre 3.63 +/- 0.14, post 3.92 +/- 0.15 cm; and placebo: pre 3.62 +/- 0.15, post 3.90 +/- 0.15 cm) and strength (1 RM of arm receiving ibuprofen: pre 18.6 +/- 2.8, post 23.4 +/- 3.5 kg; and placebo: pre 18.8 +/- 2.8, post 22.8 +/- 3.4 kg). Muscle soreness was elevated during the first week of training only, but was not different between the ibuprofen and placebo arm. We conclude that a moderate dose of ibuprofen ingested after repeated resistance training sessions does not impair muscle hypertrophy or strength and does not affect ratings of muscle soreness.
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