[ryano]

Originally Posted by Schwaugher

Any time man, and the reps are much appreciated, thanks.

Reps for ya

[SprtNvolcoM]

Date: 02/20/06, Monday (day 15)

Starting Weight: 192.8lbs (Morning Weigh)
Current Weight: 183.4lbs
Total Loss 9.4lbs!!!
BF% Unknown (15%-ish @ start)

Supplimints:
- DNP 400mg ED (200mg 2x daily)
- Benedryl 50mg ED (25mg 2x daily)
- Nolvadex 20mg ED
- Lipo-Ultra + CLEN Dermal: 2x daily (morning & evening after cap-hp application)
(read about it here: Lipderm-Ultra + Clen Info.)
- Capzasin-HP: 2x daily (morning & evenings)

Others:
- Multi Vitamin
- Vitamin B12
- Vitamin E
- Vitamin C
- Cranberry
- Milk Thistle
- Garlic
- Fish Oil
- Selenium
- Chromium
- Pyruvate
- Glycerol

Diet:
Diet is back on track ... I loved the results of cutting the carbs later in the evenings yesterday. It really seemed to help in the reductions, leaving me at 183.4 for the first time this cycle. I believe the absence of carbs increased the metabolism of fat due to the already depleted glycogen stores -- its as if my body entered full ketosis and went immediately to using BF as fuel instead of carbs. I tried it again tonight, but was unable to be as strict as I was with yesterdays meals. I did eat carbs, but mostly low GI oats and whole grains. I hope to drop another .5lbs by tomorrow's morning weigh in. My next cycle of DNP will be low carb during evening hours for sure. Wish me luck.

Training:
I did train today. Surprisingly, the workout went great. Today's training was full body, low volume, intense as I could possible go. In total have probably worked out 4 times during this intire cycle; aside from cardio, which was also minimal. Even with minimal activities I have dropped 9.4lbs thus far. I'M STOKED!!!

Personal Note: What can I say ... besides YeeeeeAH (lil jon)!!! day 15 @ 400mg ED and I have officially lost 9.4lbs -- that's an average .63lbs a day. lol, I'm giddy. What do you all think? Am I right on target in terms of goals and normal DNP experiences; despite the fact I saw/experienced practically zero side effects??? I'd say super-exceeded my expectations, but missed my goal by .6lbs. Its not over yet; I have 2 days left @ 400mg ED. I

Here are my plans post DNP cycle:
Continue to run Lipoderm-Ultra without the clen (I have two bottles, which I will cycle 1wk off/1wk off). I'll continue to use Cap-HP 2x ED. I will also add also bought CLA and plan on running that along side Pyruvate daily. I have Liquid Clen & Albuterol on hand (don't plan on running these until later. I also bought Avant Labs Phenogen. I'll somehow incorrperate these products into my off time of DNP (14 to 30days or so) before jumping back into another cycle; next DNP cycle will start out at 400mg, however. Hopefully the lack of DNP will allow me to bring my WOs and cardio sessions up a notch, at least back to normal in terms of intensity, volume, and loads. What has been your guys experience POST PCT? Any information in regards to your past experiences will be greatly appreciated.

2 more days, I'll keep you posted:
Sprt

[The Godfather]

I am not too sure if Phenogen would be the wisest idea to take at your body fat. Spook (Avant's guy who formulated it) did not recommend it for people who are relatively lean due to its mode of action. You may find it useful to ask if it is recommended for your BF% on the Avant section here or on the Avant forums

Edit: Maybe it will still be useful but I think that Salvia Miltiorrhiza is only effective for those above their setpoint.

As can be read in the 12th post on this page http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...topic=10296&hl= Spook says that both GPA and SM ar eonly particularly effetcive for those above their setpoint (i.e. the overweight) or those bulking below their setpoint

Here is the full product write-up from Spook it is a very good read
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:9L8JGxXJk2IJ:www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-246.html+phenogen&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=1

[GoFast]

Would like to throw in a word of caution with longer bouts of DNP, although it does seem that you've decided against it. Long term effects include damage to your eyes form what I recall, there are threads around where older guys are coming out admitting that past DNP usage was far from the best idea. Not knocking you at all here, your cycle has looked great as well as your prep for it. Good luck in meeting all your goals

[SprtNvolcoM]

Date: 02/21/06, Tuesday (day 16)

Starting Weight: 192.8lbs (Morning Weigh)
Current Weight: 182.4lbs
Total Loss 10.4lbs!!!
BF% Unknown (15%-ish @ start)

Supplimints:
- DNP 400mg ED (200mg 2x daily)
- Benedryl 50mg ED (25mg 2x daily)
- Nolvadex 20mg ED
- Lipoderm-Ultra: 2x daily (morning & evening after cap-hp application)
- Capzasin-HP: 2x daily (morning & evenings)

Others:
- Multi Vitamin
- Vitamin B12
- Vitamin E
- Vitamin C
- Cranberry
- Milk Thistle
- Garlic
- Fish Oil
- Selenium
- Chromium
- Pyruvate

Personal Note:
Woke up this morning not really thinking much about my loses due to the previous days diet; which was clean but full of carbs. I went piss and weighed myself ... to my superise I lost ONE FULL POUND; bringing me to 10.4lbs total loss thus far. I surpassed my goal of 10lbs. I thought to my myself, "NO WAY" and got on the scale again. Once more it read 182.4. I smiled and walked off to take a shower.

10lbs in 16 days with almost zero sides; that is nuts! I was told I would be a sweaty beast, that I wouldn't make it to day 14, that I would cramp, turn yellow, and want to kill myself. Truth be told, I feel great!! No lies either. I literally feel good. The only side I've experienced was mild body tempt increases, very mild perspiration, and the occasional hot flash. My skin is not yellow, I didn't notice any cramping, I never thought once about killing myself, and I put a woop'n on day 14. The only time I had trouble or discomfort during this cycle with my first application of CAP-HP; which had nothing to do with the DNP.

Speaking of Cap-HP, I notice now after several days of continuous applications that even when I don't use it the area feels warm. Its also the first place I start to sweat; should I begin to break a little sweat (which isn't very often). I'm also able to apply a fairly large amount of Cap-HP without it hurting anymore. I adapted to pain very quickly; with in 3-4 applications. As far seeing a noticeable difference in terms of localized BF reduction, I haven't noticed much. The again I see myself everyday. I'm sure I'll notice a difference in the before and after pictures once the cycle is over.

QUESTION:
I've been told I wont really see a huge difference in terms of BF lose for a couple days after cycle; after water retention subsides. That being said, however, I haven't noticed much water retention. Does anyone know how long I should wait before I take the after pictures??

Officially my cycle was scheduled to end on day 14. Given the fact that I had an extra few pills, I decided to run it out until my caps where gone -- no sense in having only a few pills laying around. I still have a full day left after to day of 400mg. DNP cycle will end Thursday. The fight to rid myself of unnecessary BF will continue, however; more about that later.

One last thing, I quit the lipo/clen mixture and substituted in a regular bottle of Lipoderm-Ultra (I have two bottle total). I plan on cycling the two lipos with Cap-HP 1wk on/1wk off. The switch started today (which gave me a full seven days in lipo/clen + cap-hp). So far from I've lost a full inch off the waist. I was hoping for more since I'm also running DNP and have lost 10lbs, but according to measurements, 1" inch it is. Its funny because I comfortably wear a waist size 32 to 34 pants, yet my hips measure 36.5 inches (which should give a general idea/visual of what my problem area looks like -- one might agree that the spare tire look could be contributed to estro sensitivity; this is something I've always believe anyhow).

One more day to go:
Sprt

[anapolack]

so what is the half life of crystal dnp?......i been taking 200mg mornings and 200 mg afternoons.....dont seem to work as fast as the powder ****

[Schwaugher]

For your water weight question, i noticed the same thing, i lost what water i was carrying by day 3. So i say take pics any time after that. And as for the DNP and eye problems, "Yellow Vision" is a possibility but a rarity, cataracts were reported in DNP usage back when it was legal, but they were occuring in 1% or less of the users and they were ALL women. HOWEVER the information that said DNP caused cataracts turned out too be FALSE.

This was posted by CYCLEON @ http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=1182

Concerning Two Cases of Cataract Caused by Dinitrophenol
By Jean Sedan (Marseille)
Sedan, Jean. 1939. A propos de deux cas de cataracte par phenols dinitres. Annales d'Oculistes. 176:191.
Translation © 1996 Robert Ames

The implementation of the treatment for obesity by dinitrophenol dates only from 1933, the year when it was suddenly and rapidly put in the limelight by the work of the Americans Tainter, Mehrtens and Cutting.

These authors have established that the ingestion of dinitrophenol accelerates metabolism, causing a marked elevation in temperature. It seemed that dinitrophenol was a specially effective treatment for obesity. In 1936, Horner estimated that in the first 15 months following the appearance of the medication in the market, one hundred thousand persons used it to lose weight.

Incidents and accidents multiplied and appeared sufficiently serious that the American Medical Association warned the public against the dangers of unsupervised treatment.

Here we discuss only the case of cataracts, which Horner had said that it occurs in one case in 1000 treatments. At the end of this report we will note the principle bibliographic references concerning the American literature devoted to the subject and which is of a great value, but we wish to emphasize how the European work and especially French are on the other hand still rare and even exceptional.

One can say that it is by the work of Onfray and Gilbert Dreyfus presented to the Congress of the S.F.O. [Societe Francaise des Oculistes?] in 1937 that French opthamologists had their attention drawn to the subject. This remarkably precise work is enriched by two observations of which one is due to Doctor A. Gallois, of Besancon. We frequently reference this, for it contains in addition to minutely observed details, important physio-pathogenic considerations and a complete history of the subject.
Apart from this work, we should also to point out the observations of Van de Hoeve and Polak-Daniels published in Holland in 1936, as well as the French summaries and reviews of Halbron on cataracts and of Laignel-Lavastine on dinitrophenol intoxication.

Finally, we emphasize the interest of the work of Vogt on the cataracts caused by dinitrophenol in Switzerland and of G. Ciotola of those caused by alphadinitrophenol in Italy, both published in 1937. The same year, Stein and Crevecoeur pointed out that in their opinion this affectation was, when all is said and done, quite rare if one thinks of the enormous dissemination of dinitro treatment. This was also the opinion of Andre Mayer, based on the fact that despite the considerable number of intoxications by dintrophenol observed in munitions factories, no cases of cataracts have been noted.

Finally, in 1938, Carlotti and Rivoire de Nice presented a case of cataract by dintrophenyl-lysidine which developed "with almost lightning-like rapidity."
* * *
It was possible for us to observe two very demonstrative cases. In one there was an arrest of development of opacity after the patient stopped taking dinitrophenol, which is more than a rarity, a real exception in the pathological history of dinitrophenol cataracts.

OBSERVATION I. -- Mme. K... Lea, 32 years old presented herself to me in December 1937 with a marked lowering of the vision of both eyes, which began a few weeks earlier, developing extremely fast and was all the more disturbing since she works at a very visual profession in the editing of a newspaper and as she is especially partial to this pleasant and remunerative position. I noticed a beginning of bilateral cataract appearing striated and fleecy which is found almost constantly in the description of toxic lens opacities of this kind. The opacity is situated mainly at the level of the equator of the lens, but also involves the posterior part of the central mass. The vision is only 4/10 in the right and 5/10 in the left, these two acuities correctable to 7/10 O.D.G. -- 2.50.

Mme K... thus learned that she was rapidly becoming myopic.
The most minute research were done in view of identifying a possible cause of this bilateral cataract. All the blood and urine tests were negative. Very complete clinical examinations by Doctor P..., referring physician, point to the same conclusion that it is impossible to relieve Mmme. K...'s pathological process at all.
It is then that I thought of asking her about the possibility of a dinitrophenol anti-obesity treatment, even though the corpulence of my client did not seem excessive. She told me then of having taken two pills each day of 0.30 grams of dinitrophenol in series of ten days with a rest of 15 days, for the past year and a half.
She had, without the least dietary restriction, lost 19 kilograms out of 87 [42 pounds out of 191]. It was at that point that she began complaining about her vision.

I wasn't aware of the topic at that time except by the short summaries of American works, but I didn't hesitate to warn her against what I considered to be the real origin of her sickness.
Very anxious about her state, she was easily convinced and stopped that therapy suddenly and definitively.

I had the opportunity to see her in March, July and October 1938 and I noticed with great interest the complete arrest in the development of these catacts, which accompanied in very precise fashion the progressive and total disappearance of myopia to the extent that although it was possible to note an appreciable modification in the lens opacities, the visual acuity was spontaneously returned to 7/10 (uncorrected) at the end of October 1938.

We add that Mme. K..., doubly happy, very far from regaining weight in spite of the renunciation of dinitrophenol, had lost another 5 kilos by a very strict nutritional discipline complemented with rigorous gymnastic practices and the introduction into her life of a new intoxification, certainly less dangerous than the preceeding -- tea.

In this case, the role played by the toxin in the opacification of the lens seems to us demonstrated in an almost experimental fashion by the disappearance of the myopia at the moment of the cessation of the intoxification and even more by the incontestable and enduring stabilization of the state of opacities that maintained itself for six months. In contrast, the development was very sudden in a month before the application of this measure. It is presumed that only the precocity of the requested medical consultation and of the medical diagnostic given, has permitted a stop in the development of this toxic cataract -- a completely unusual phenomenon.

We emphasize that the treatment had included plainly excessive doses and that however the opacification only appeared late in the treatment. On this topic remember that in the discussion which followed the expose made to the S.F.O. in 1937 by MM. Onfray and Gilbert Dreyfus-Arruga, who had occasion to observe and operate in America [illegible] ... don't generally appear except at the end of many months and even sometimes six to twelve months after the cessation of treatment. These late-developing cataracts are almost always bilateral.

OBSERVATION II.
[Not included. Summary: A 32 year old woman weighing 90 kg. (198 pounds) began taking dinitrophenol on February 1st, 1937. She began with 9 to 10 pills daily, each being 30 mg. of DNP. After a week she increased the dose to 12 pills / day (360 mg.). At this dosage she lost 800 grams per week, or 10 kg. (22 pounds) in three months, without changing her diet. She stopped taking DNP for four months and then began again. So she took 32.4 grams of DNP in the first 90 days and the same amount in the second course. American reports indicated that cataracts had resulted from doses as small as 100 mg. per day for a total of 40 grams.

On June 10th 1938, after several days in a very sunny seaside resort, the patient began to lose vision in her left eye, and on July 12th, the other eye was affected. By August 1st she was unable to see to drive. By September she was blind.
Fortunately, surgery produced favorable results.]

It is necessary, indeed, to publicize cases in order to attract the attention of physicians and of the French public to the danger of intoxification by dinitrophenol. The fact that we have been able to stabilize, if not make regress one cataract of this class by stopping all toxic ingestion is but another reason which compels us to make it known.

These arguments and our observations are so needed to challenge the imagination and influence young women against harmful weight loss techniques that the work appears discouraging.

Indeed, in ending, we repeat the unlikely remark that our second patient made to us upon taking leave following the success of her first operation: "And now, Doctor, do not oppose my taking of dinitrophenol since I no longer risk having cataracts."
References

· ALLEN and BENSON. -- Late development of cataracts following use of dinitrophenol about a year before. JAMA, 1935, V, 105, p. 795.
· BARKAN, BORLEY, FINE and BETTMAN. -- Operative results in cataracts coincident with dinitrophenol therapy. Cal W. Med. 1936, XXXXIV, p. 360.
· BENCE, JONES. -- On the rate of passage of crystalloids into and out of the vascular and non-vascular textures of the body. Pr. R. Soc., 1863, London, 14, 400.
· BOARDMAN. -- Rapidly developing cataracts after dinitrophenol. JAMA, 1935, CV, p. 108.
· CAMERON, cited by HORNER. -- Arch. of opth. 1936, XVI, p. 452.
· CARLOTTI and RIVOIRE. -- Sur un cas de cataracte per le Dinitrophenyllyside. Rev. O.N.O., Nov. 1938, p. 622-624.
· CAZENEUVE and LEPINE. -- Sur les effets produits par l'ingestion et l'injection intraveineuse de trois colorants jaunes derives de la houille. C.R. Ac. Sc. de Paris, 1885, CI, p. 1, 167.
· CIOTOLA (G.). -- Cataracte par alpha-dinitrophenol. Boll. d'Oc., 16, 1937, p. 531.
· COGAN D. and COGAN F. -- Dinitrophenol cataract. JAMA, 1935, CV, p. 794.
· CUTTING, MEHRTENS, TAINTER. -- Dinitrophenol, not acceptable for N.N.R. JAMA. 1935, CV, p. 31. (Important bibliography on the subject).
· DALLY. -- Du nouveau sur le dinitrophenol. Concours Med. 1935, L, p. 3, 491.
· EBSTEIN and ROSENBLUM. -- Peripheral neuritis and abortion following dinitrophenol therapy. J. Lab. an Clin. Med. 1935, XX, p. 1, 118.
· GIBBS-Reichert. -- Am. Chem. J., 1891, XIII, p. 289.
· GUTZEIT (R.). -- Cure d'obesite et cataracte. Munch. med. Wschr., 2, 1937, p. I.724.
· HALBRON. -- Les cataractes apres emploi therapeutique du dinitrophenol. Sem. des Hopitaux de Paris, XII, 1937, p. 329.
· HORNER, JONES, BOARDMAN. -- Cataracts following the use of dinitro. JAMA, 1935, CV, p. 108.
· HORNER. -- Cataracts after dinitrophenol. Ar. of Opth. 1936, XVI, p. 446-461.
· HORNER (W.-D.). -- Cataracts following dinitrophenol treatment for obesity. Transact. of the opth. sect. of the Amer. Med. Ass., 1936.
· KNISKERN. -- Cataract following dinitrophenol. JAMA, 1935, CV, p. 794.
· KOCH-LEE and TAINTER. -- Dinitrophenol on liver function. Calif. and W. Med., 1935, XXXXIII, p. 337.
· LAIGNEL-LAVASTINE. -- Soc. Med. des Hopit. de Paris, 1937.
· LAZAR. -- Cataract following dinitrophenol. JAMA, 1935, CV, p. 794.
· LEUTSKER. -- Instance of circulatory collapse attributed to dinitrophenol. U.S. Nav. Med. Bull., 1935, XXXIII, p. 394.
· MAC BRYDE-TAUSIG. -- Functional changes in liver, heart and muscles loss of dextrose tolerance resulting from dinitrophenol. JAMA, 1935, CV, p. 13.
· MAGNE, MAYER, PLANTEFOL, et al. -- Etude sur l'action du dinitrophenol. An. de Physiol., 1932, CV, p. 12.
· NADLER. -- Peripheral neuritis caused by prolonged use of dinitrophenol. JAMA, 1935, p. 12.
· ONFRAY and GILBERT DREYFUS. -- Bull. et Memoires S.F.O., 1937, (I, pp. 114-12.
· ONETO-G****O-NATALE. -- Developpement de cataracte aux deux yeux, consequence d'un traitment au dinitrophenol pour amaigrissement. Soc. Argentin. of., 24 Oct. 1937.
· PERKINS. -- A study of munitions intoxication in France. Pub. Health Rep., 1919, XXXIV, p. 2, 335.
· RODIN. -- Cataracts following the use of dinitrophenol. Calif. West Med. 44.4, 1936, p. 3.
· SCHUTES. -- Dinitrophenol. Am. J. Opth., 1935, 18, p. 752.
· SPAETH (E.-B.). -- Cataractes dues au dinitrophenol avec symptomes de tetanie. Am. J. Opth., Apr. 1936, p. 320-323.
· STEIN and CREVECOEUR. -- Semaine des Hopitaux de Paris, 15 Dec. 1937.
· TAINTER, CUTTING and STOCKTON. -- Use of dinitrophenol in nutritional disorders. Am. J. Pub. Health., 1934, XXIV, p. 1045.
· VAN DER HOEVE and POLAK-DANIELS. -- Cataracte et dinitrophenol. Nederl. Tijdsch. V. Genessk., I, 1936, no. 2, p. 126.
· VOGT (A.). -- La Cataracte par dinitrophenol en Suisse. Schweiz. Med. Wocst., 76-37, 11 Sep. 1937, p. 873.
· WHALMAN. -- Dinitrophenol cataract. Am. J. O., Oct. 1936, XIX, p. 885.

PS: reps...thanks ryano.

[SprtNvolcoM]

We should make this thread a sticky!

[Schwaugher]

Originally Posted by anapolack

so what is the half life of crystal dnp?......i been taking 200mg mornings and 200 mg afternoons.....dont seem to work as fast as the powder shit

I wish i knew. But i can't seem to find a straight answer to that question. Even when people agree on it having a shorter half-life, nobody it giving a specific number of hours. I've decided just to take their word on it. And I don't have any idea as to why you would feel the effects of powder DNP faster than the crystalline version. To be honest, your the first person I've heard say that. I guess it might be because your running more helper supps, that minimize the sides, with the crystal DNP than you did with the powdered. Even if your not running helper supps by themselves, they may be mixed in with the DNP. But that is just a guess.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by anapolack

so what is the half life of crystal dnp?......i been taking 200mg mornings and 200 mg afternoons.....dont seem to work as fast as the powder shit

As I said in an earlier post the researchers who originally introduced DNP as a weight loss medicine stated that 100mg of crystal DNP is equivalent to only 75mg of powdered DNP due to the sodium content of the crystalline DNP. Therefore I think it's more of a strength/mg rather than a half-life issue

[anapolack]

yeah my source added a kitchen sink of helper supps

[anapolack]

oh and sport.......use meridia when u come off the dnp because your appetite increases

[The Godfather]

Meridia is going a bit far. No need to use a prescription drug when you can quite easily use many OTC supps like EC, synephrine, stimulant x and the list goes on (zappetite by thermolife has been getting good reviews about its appetite suppression)

[SprtNvolcoM]

Originally Posted by anapolack

oh and sport.......use meridia when u come off the dnp because your appetite increases

Appetite wont be a problem if your diet is in check; which mine is. I am just hoping to increase cardio and work frequency post DNP.