Ketogenic Diets Suppress IGF-1

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  1. One example of me being in ketosis after previously of having carbs. Hours later of course.Name:  20181203_165144.jpeg
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Danger, danger, this is a very tribal conversation... too emotionally driven. Many peoples first effective diet was keto so you are going to play hell there because it is an emotional attachment that feels like it is being attacked. So I am out of it other than to say I am shocked with how chemically based this board is that someone didn't just say... Easy answer use MK-677 while on keto to counteract the possibility of that...
    Hey looking at your picture you can defend yourself against most people regardless of diets when you mentioned mk I started doubting my own diet cause I've been on mk since. Is it the almonds or the mk? Hmm..
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by ValiantThor08 View Post
    Not according to the blood tests that I had taken daily, experimenting for myself. I was in nutritional ketosis. If you look in a couple of my logs in the supplement log section, I post the bloods.
    Hmm so I got this right? You're carb cycling every day pretty much for dinner?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Chados View Post
    Hmm so I got this right? You're carb cycling every day pretty much for dinner?
    Yes sir, and I literally tested daily my ketones, sometimes multiple times per day to see how long it would take before my liver would begin producing ketones again. I get it. It's weird. My friends on keto say I am an oddity.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by ValiantThor08 View Post
    Yes sir, and I literally tested daily my ketones, sometimes multiple times per day to see how long it would take before my liver would begin producing ketones again. I get it. It's weird. My friends on keto say I am an oddity.
    Well if you're some kind of keto machine all good for you haha.
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  6. Ketogenic Diets Suppress IGF-1


    Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    For the record, i am currwntly using MK677 on keto...
    Just curious if the MK677 on top of a ketogenic diet (<50g carbs per day) accelerates fat loss and maintains muscle mass substantially better than ketogenic diet alone?

    Have you experimented with this type of comparison?

    Thank you in advance, @jrock645!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Humble View Post
    Just curious if the MK677 on top of a ketogenic diet (<50g carbs per day) accelerates fat loss and maintains muscle mass substantially better than ketogenic diet alone?

    Have you experimented with this type of comparison?

    Thank you in advance, @jrock645!
    Sort of. 50-100a day and from personal experience it might help maintaining more after a cycle and I believe one can get away with more cheat meals but from studies it had shown to increase lean muscle mass but increase fat arguably due to people eating more on mk. The fact that it adds lean muscle mass should mean it increases metabolism due to more muscles which in theory should help you lose fat with a good diet which I bet most on mk in the studies were not dieting hard like some of us on the forum. Everything in the studies points at no fatloss while at the same time proves that it should be very possible for anyone not over eating to lean out since we know it adds lean muscle.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Lol. You mean hematocrit and hemoglobin doesn't carry oxygen, platelets don't participate in clotting, etc. for you?

    Your white blood cells aren't made up of monocytes and leukocytes and don't fight invaders like mine?

    There ARE variations, I get that, but they are all variations on the same set of rules.

    But, to your point, I won't bet you either well played.
    lol...is there a differentiation between people are different and people are the same with different variations?
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Humble View Post
    Just curious if the MK677 on top of a ketogenic diet (<50g carbs per day) accelerates fat loss and maintains muscle mass substantially better than ketogenic diet alone?

    Have you experimented with this type of comparison?

    Thank you in advance, @jrock645!
    All i can say right now is my weight change is a but slower than in previous cuts but my waist measurement change is definitely on track. So, i feel like im maximizing muscle kept while steadily losing belly fat. Without bodpod or dexa scans, i wont make audacious claims about gaining muscle while cutting.

    Never used MK before. Dropped weight on keto a few times though, and this feels just slightly different.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    All i can say right now is my weight change is a but slower than in previous cuts but my waist measurement change is definitely on track. So, i feel like im maximizing muscle kept while steadily losing belly fat. Without bodpod or dexa scans, i wont make audacious claims about gaining muscle while cutting.

    Never used MK before. Dropped weight on keto a few times though, and this feels just slightly different.
    this is a really good post...nice job!!!
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol...is there a differentiation between people are different and people are the same with different variations?
    Understood - my stance was too strong. I don't really mean there are NO differences, but there ARE rules and similarities that apply to all of us. We all use adenosine for energy for instance. We all require water. The list of similarities and hard stop rules far out weighs the variable differences between us.

    I think part of the issue is that there are probably hundreds of rules which all have very minor adjustments and interplay - making it very difficult for us to actually understand and predict the small variations. Some of those rules will adjust for environment, some for chemical supply, some for genetics, etc. We do not really know every pathway, nor every chemical which may be bottlenecking a pathway in our system, nor which pathways have been activated to compensate for impaired pathways, etc.

    And thus the reason for my overly harsh (and this wrong) stance that we are not all different. It seems like a cop out to me. It is an excuse for people to believe in falsehoods, ignore science, etc. It is something supplement companies DEPEND on people believing. Rather than figure out what is true and what is going on, it is too difficult so we just say, "eh well, everyone is different."

    But what about the supplement you have tried and it worked great and then the second time did nothing? Or the time it happened the other way around? Maybe it isn't that everyone is different, but that things are in flux and situations change and understanding THOSE differences has value that is being ignored.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  12. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Understood - my stance was too strong. I don't really mean there are NO differences, but there ARE rules and similarities that apply to all of us. We all use adenosine for energy for instance. We all require water. The list of similarities and hard stop rules far out weighs the variable differences between us.

    I think part of the issue is that there are probably hundreds of rules which all have very minor adjustments and interplay - making it very difficult for us to actually understand and predict the small variations. Some of those rules will adjust for environment, some for chemical supply, some for genetics, etc. We do not really know every pathway, nor every chemical which may be bottlenecking a pathway in our system, nor which pathways have been activated to compensate for impaired pathways, etc.

    And thus the reason for my overly harsh (and this wrong) stance that we are not all different. It seems like a cop out to me. It is an excuse for people to believe in falsehoods, ignore science, etc. It is something supplement companies DEPEND on people believing. Rather than figure out what is true and what is going on, it is too difficult so we just say, "eh well, everyone is different."

    But what about the supplement you have tried and it worked great and then the second time did nothing? Or the time it happened the other way around? Maybe it isn't that everyone is different, but that things are in flux and situations change and understanding THOSE differences has value that is being ignored.
    nothing is static, everything is fluid...change is all around


    but the answer my friend is blowing in the wind!!!
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  13. But the most important question is where are you on the development of that psycho chick pyss strip we talked about @HIT4ME
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by SFreed View Post
    But the most important question is where are you on the development of that psycho chick pyss strip we talked about @HIT4ME
    Not sure. I am either having a false-positive issue or I cannot seem to find a female that doesn't turn the strip dark...deep psycho. Scratching my head.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  15. Ironically, this just came up during some other research I was doing. It is a mice study, but this is what one would expect in humans as well.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2903931/

    Basically, exposure to ketogenic diets impairs glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. This impaired sensitivity actually provides some benefits (reduced caloric intake). Addition of carbs reverses this effect, although I would suggest longer term KD post obesity would make this more difficult to change.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  16. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Ironically, this just came up during some other research I was doing. It is a mice study, but this is what one would expect in humans as well.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2903931/

    Basically, exposure to ketogenic diets impairs glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. This impaired sensitivity actually provides some benefits (reduced caloric intake). Addition of carbs reverses this effect, although I would suggest longer term KD post obesity would make this more difficult to change.
    I seen that one as well while looking into studies on this
    I mean if you really hate your balls, go for it. But, what did they do to you?

  17. I've been looking into carb cycling. Anyone have a good plan? There's almost too much information on the net.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    I've been looking into carb cycling. Anyone have a good plan? There's almost too much information on the net.
    Did you see my previous post earlier in the thread:

    What I have also read shows that keto works for short blast say may 6 weeks and it would look something like this:

    Week 1

    Monday-Friday 50%P/50%F/0%C, Saturday and Sunday 50%P/40%F/10%C

    Week 2

    Monday-Friday 50/50/0, Saturday-Sunday 50/30/20

    Week 3

    Minday-Friday 50/50/0, Saturday-Sunday 50/20/30

    Week 4-6

    Monday-Friday 50/50/0, Saturday-Sunday 50/10/40
    I mean if you really hate your balls, go for it. But, what did they do to you?
  19. Ketogenic Diets Suppress IGF-1


    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I've been looking into carb cycling. Anyone have a good plan? There's almost too much information on the net.
    Easiest rule of thumb IF you donít weigh your carbs is (if you follow high, medium, low, high, medium, low, low ~ assuming 5 meals):

    Monday- Cho every meal
    Tuesday - cho three meal
    Wednesday- no cho
    Thurs- cho every meal
    Fri- cho three meal
    Sat & sun no cho

    Once your weight plateaus, reduce Mondayís to cho only at 4 of 5 meals, and reduce the portion of your cho on your medium days.
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  20. No disrespect to anyone else, in fact I applaud you for taking the time and energy and doing all this research, but I just can't make my nutrition plan this complicated. I shoot for 175-200 grams of protein a day and adjust my fats up or down depending on my goals. Who else here tries to Keep It Simple ?? (KISS)
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rocket3015 View Post
    No disrespect to anyone else, in fact I applaud you for taking the time and energy and doing all this research, but I just can't make my nutrition plan this complicated. I shoot for 175-200 grams of protein a day and adjust my fats up or down depending on my goals. Who else here tries to Keep It Simple ?? (KISS)
    Yeah, in all reality there are two things that make up 90% of the results from a diet (common theme in fitness)...Calories and protein. If you get those right, the rest is just gravy.

    But different eating styles do play a role in your being able to get those things right and maintain it.

    And if you have underlying metabolic issues, then there may be more co.plicated solutions...although eating in a way that fits those metabolic issues is a pretty good band aid...ie if you have damaged carb burning ability, then not eating carbs avoids the problem and can get you where you want to go in the short/medium term.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Rocket3015 View Post
    No disrespect to anyone else, in fact I applaud you for taking the time and energy and doing all this research, but I just can't make my nutrition plan this complicated. I shoot for 175-200 grams of protein a day and adjust my fats up or down depending on my goals. Who else here tries to Keep It Simple ?? (KISS)
    I donít measure food at all anymore. Prepping for my show in 2016 created a bad relationship with a food scale.

    I eye ball everything, if I gain weight I reduce the portion size of the meals.

    Intuitive eating should be the way we live but overindulgence is a real thing lol hello obesity epidemic in the US.
    Psalms 62:1-62:2

  23. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    I've been looking into carb cycling. Anyone have a good plan? There's almost too much information on the net.
    Look up carb backloading... Is similar to what @ValiantThor08 is doing and I believe not all that uncommon for people who do it to enter ketosis because the body adjusts to only having carbs during certain points of the day. Not sure if valthor is an oddity or an example of how effective carb backloading can be an effective modification of a keto diet.

    This is loosely the type of diet I use along with IF a few days a week (14-18hr fast) which is also loose. I think over time you can find what type of diet best suits your body chemistry and goals and follow it "loosely" and still get the best results. Its all about learning what works best.

    That said I dont get crazy about it and still eat, cheat and carb up from time to time. But ive also been disciplined and it's allowed me to get down to about 12%bf which at 41 is the best shape of my life.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    I've been looking into carb cycling. Anyone have a good plan? There's almost too much information on the net.
    Recommend carb backloading. Best of both worlds. Basically you have to be on strict keto until you are adapted. John Kiefer says a couple weeks, I would do it a month before incorporating carbs. Your supposed to eat as many carbs as you want for dinner, on the days you train, but I have carbs every dinner now, and am in ketosis the next day. If you dont want to test your blood ketones, you'll have to judge based on how you feel, whether you are in ketosis while carb backloading.
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