Training while fasting

[Imsaint]

I see this being a debate but let’s go. I can only workout in the morning most days of the week and I prefer it. I’m doing intermittent fasting and my window of eating is from 12-8. My workout is usually 6-730 in the morning. AM I ****ING MYSELF WITH HEAVY STRENGTH TRAINING WHILE FASTED?

 

[AntSoldier]

I see this being a debate but let’s go. I can only workout in the morning most days of the week and I prefer it. I’m doing intermittent fasting and my window of eating is from 12-8. My workout is usually 6-730 in the morning. AM I ****ING MYSELF WITH HEAVY STRENGTH TRAINING WHILE FASTED?

Depends on your goals, your body type and a myriad of other things. Make sure you hydrate properly. Try it for a while and see what difference it makes to you. If you feel okay, don't get ill and still make gains then why not carry on. Personally I wouldn't train on a fasted body, but, that's me. I want to gain weight so it's all different

 

[Imsaint]

Depends on your goals, your body type and a myriad of other things. Make sure you hydrate properly. Try it for a while and see what difference it makes to you. If you feel okay, don't get ill and still make gains then why not carry on. Personally I wouldn't train on a fasted body, but, that's me. I want to gain weight so it's all different

Initially the plan was to do this as a mini cut for 30 days. I was bulking but I’m going on vaca and decided to cut up as much as possible. I like IF and would like to keep it incorporated but I want to figure out if it’s counter productive to train the way I am. One side says you are depleting glycogen and then you are catabolic so you’re ****ed if you don’t eat immediately and the other side says as long as you get your calories at some point you’re okay. Google is ****ed when it comes to this topic.

 

[AntSoldier]

As I understand it you need an amount of protein within a couple of hours of training. Before or after. The rest you need within that 24hr period. Look up Jeff Nippard on YouTube and he has a couple of videos on when to eat what and at least one on intermittent fasting. He basically says it's only good if you can get all the macro nutrients and all the calories you need in the short amount of time you allow yourself to eat. If you can't get enough in, in that time then don't try.

 

[Imsaint]

As I understand it you need an amount of protein within a couple of hours of training. Before or after. The rest you need within that 24hr period. Look up Jeff Nippard on YouTube and he has a couple of videos on when to eat what and at least one on intermittent fasting. He basically says it's only good if you can get all the macro nutrients and all the calories you need in the short amount of time you allow yourself to eat. If you can't get enough in, in that time then don't try.

That’s one side of the story like I said. The people that say don’t even go for it unless you can eat before and after. The anabolic window has been being dismissed more and more and it’s backed by science so I’m not exactly sold on that thinking.

 

[AntSoldier]

That’s one side of the story like I said. The people that say don’t even go for it unless you can eat before and after. The anabolic window has been being dismissed more and more and it’s backed by science so I’m not exactly sold on that thinking.

Try a protein shake after training then and stick to the rest of the plan. A lean shake like whey only would be fine and you could have all your calories in your eating window

 

[Imsaint]

Try a protein shake after training then and stick to the rest of the plan. A lean shake like whey only would be fine and you could have all your calories in your eating window

Yeah something like iso 100 would be the best option yet that will still break the fast. That might be an option but still like I said that goes with one side of thinking on it. I want to hear the other side of the story.

 

[AntSoldier]

Yeah something like iso 100 would be the best option yet that will still break the fast. That might be an option but still like I said that goes with one side of thinking on it. I want to hear the other side of the story.

https://youtu.be/Q1sfiDIPzHU

 

[Imsaint]

https://youtu.be/Q1sfiDIPzHU

Correct me if I’m wrong but the only back to having to eat around a workout is when they mention lean gainz and training being based around the food window.

 

[AntSoldier]

Not sure what you mean by back?

 

[Imsaint]

Not sure what you mean by back?

The only supported evidence that you shouldn’t train in the morning during the fasted period

 

[AntSoldier]

The only supported evidence that you shouldn’t train in the morning during the fasted period

Dont think anyone is saying you shouldnt train whilst fasting. I know a few bodybuilders that train whilst fasted. But I don't think you can leave it hours and hours after before you eat. I think you should train fasted and eat within fourish hours of that training as a maximum. Preferably two

 

[Jeremyk1]

I do recall reading that timing protein near training is more important in more experienced trainees vs. newbies. I’d definitely try to get some protein in after training. Why don’t you just adjust your eating window closer to your training time?

 

[Imsaint]

I do recall reading that timing protein near training is more important in more experienced trainees vs. newbies. I’d definitely try to get some protein in after training. Why don’t you just adjust your eating window closer to your training time?

That’s probably what I’m going to do I just train so early that it makes it kind of suck that I would have to stop eating at like 5 at night lol

 

[BEAST73]

I lost 21Lbs in 23 days using intermittent fasting,calorie Deficit, and calorie Surplus.

 

[Imsaint]

I lost 21Lbs in 23 days using intermittent fasting,calorie Deficit, and calorie Surplus.

That’s ****ing fantastic.. what do you mean both deficit and surplus? Like you went 50/50?

 

[BEAST73]

The day before weight training,I increase calories by 500-1000. The next day depends on training,I would go in calorie Deficit. On Friday at noontime,I would run the intermittent fasting until Sunday. No alcohol,Sodas and Coffee.

 

[Imsaint]

The day before weight training,I increase calories by 500-1000. The next day depends on training,I would go in calorie Deficit. On Friday at noontime,I would run the intermittent fasting until Sunday. No alcohol,Sodas and Coffee.

Honestly I don’t know if I could go the whole weekend no food lol

 

[Jeremyk1]

That’s probably what I’m going to do I just train so early that it makes it kind of suck that I would have to stop eating at like 5 at night lol

Yeah I understand. I work out at 4am right now. I used to follow something of an intermittent fasting type of schedule, but it isn’t working with my new job.

 

[Humble]

I think it’s a mistake to generalize because everyone is different.

When I am going to lift heavy early in the AM (very infrequently), I load up with carbs, fatty acids, and protein the night before.

At age 61, I’m a more of a hard gainer than I was at age 21 and don’t want to go catabolic.

There are genetic markers for hard gainers, but the research is preliminary. Interestingly, these two studies showed differences among women, but not men.

https://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/japplphysiol.01139.2004

https://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/japplphysiol.90835.2008

I believe there is also research showing that weight lifters who work out in the late afternoon and early evening experience more gains than morning lifters. But I can’t remember where I read that.

Bottom line: I understand you are cutting. You know your body better than anyone. If you think you are keeping your muscle gains with intermittent fasting and morning workouts, don’t make any changes. If not, eat at least 40 g of carbs, 10 g of fats, and 40 g of protein the night before.

IMHO, it always makes sense to do the same 40/10/40 after your workout if you want to mitigate catabolism—fasted or not.

Good luck!

 

[AntM1564]

I see this being a debate but let’s go. I can only workout in the morning most days of the week and I prefer it. I’m doing intermittent fasting and my window of eating is from 12-8. My workout is usually 6-730 in the morning. AM I ****ING MYSELF WITH HEAVY STRENGTH TRAINING WHILE FASTED?

You're fine. Plenty of people do this and do well with it. As long as you're getting your daily calories and protein, you are good to go.

Is there any specific reason why you are following IF? If you are doing it expecting a miracle, but concerned about not eating after your training, then just eat after your training. IF isn't going to produce any more benefits than a diet eating throughout the day.

 

[Imsaint]

You're fine. Plenty of people do this and do well with it. As long as you're getting your daily calories and protein, you are good to go.

Is there any specific reason why you are following IF? If you are doing it expecting a miracle, but concerned about not eating after your training, then just eat after your training. IF isn't going to produce any more benefits than a diet eating throughout the day.

Yeah I’m doing it for rapid weight loss. I bulked for two months, put on fat, cutting for a month now, and will recommence bulking after my vacation beginning of November. I’m pretty much looking to get a 3% swing in body fat and in a week and a half of IF and a deficit of 400 cals I’m half way there. I contribute a good part of that to IF cause I have been at this same deficit before alone with the same routine I’m doing and haven’t dropped this quickly.

 

[Imsaint]

You're fine. Plenty of people do this and do well with it. As long as you're getting your daily calories and protein, you are good to go.

Is there any specific reason why you are following IF? If you are doing it expecting a miracle, but concerned about not eating after your training, then just eat after your training. IF isn't going to produce any more benefits than a diet eating throughout the day.

Also when you IF the longer you stay fasted the better the results so if I break it after training at 730 am then I’m not getting as much out of it. That was the whole premise of my post.

 

[Chados]

I like to take carbs to 100gr a day and just eat omega 3 fats and protein the rest. I find this to be very easy to deal with mentally and it also give results with some cardio and gym. Having hour not eating doesn't feel good mentally and I also feel it affects the workouts and its harder to control muscle waste

 

[AntM1564]

Also when you IF the longer you stay fasted the better the results so if I break it after training at 730 am then I’m not getting as much out of it. That was the whole premise of my post.

You can lose the same amount of weight/fat without fasting.

 

[Imsaint]

You can lose the same amount of weight/fat without fasting.

Maybe but I’ve found it to be a very useful tool and it’s yielding fantastic results.

 

[john.patterson]

Maybe but I’ve found it to be a very useful tool and it’s yielding fantastic results.

A lot of people really enjoy IF and see better results with it compared to a more standard diet. I think your diet strategy is perfectly fine for what your goals are. If you were trying to bulk, it might not be optimal; but for cutting I think your plan will work well.

How long are you planning to cut for?

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

Also when you IF the longer you stay fasted the better the results so if I break it after training at 730 am then I’m not getting as much out of it. That was the whole premise of my post.

IF never been proven in controlled trials, to be better than any other strategy for fat loss - same goes for any other (keto, 6 meals a day, etc...). comes down to energy balance at end of day/week/month - not sexy, and doesn't sell books and supplements, but there you have it. just like for *some* people, keto makes them not hungry, IF does same for *some* people - but it still the deficit when all told. also, as far as *performance* - count number of gold medal hopefuls that do anything fasted. weight lifting is glycolytic - you most definitely are sacrificing performance doing it fasted. if fat loss is *primary* goal, and IF keeps you from blowing the diet, and you don't mind not having maximal performance - then it's fine. but like mr. ant said - you can do exact same result by training fed and just sticking to daily deficit.

 

[Mowglisml]

IF never been proven in controlled trials, to be better than any other strategy for fat loss - same goes for any other (keto, 6 meals a day, etc...). comes down to energy balance at end of day/week/month - not sexy, and doesn't sell books and supplements, but there you have it. just like for *some* people, keto makes them not hungry, IF does same for *some* people - but it still the deficit when all told. also, as far as *performance* - count number of gold medal hopefuls that do anything fasted. weight lifting is glycolytic - you most definitely are sacrificing performance doing it fasted. if fat loss is *primary* goal, and IF keeps you from blowing the diet, and you don't mind not having maximal performance - then it's fine. but like mr. ant said - you can do exact same result by training fed and just sticking to daily deficit.

Well said.
I would like to add as a supplement
Joe rogan podcast with Dom d’agustino & layne norton they hit some good points

 

[Rockzilla]

IF never been proven in controlled trials, to be better than any other strategy for fat loss - same goes for any other (keto, 6 meals a day, etc...). comes down to energy balance at end of day/week/month - not sexy, and doesn't sell books and supplements, but there you have it. just like for *some* people, keto makes them not hungry, IF does same for *some* people - but it still the deficit when all told. also, as far as *performance* - count number of gold medal hopefuls that do anything fasted. weight lifting is glycolytic - you most definitely are sacrificing performance doing it fasted. if fat loss is *primary* goal, and IF keeps you from blowing the diet, and you don't mind not having maximal performance - then it's fine. but like mr. ant said - you can do exact same result by training fed and just sticking to daily deficit.

Actually in controlled settings TRF showed a decrease in fat mass when carlorie intake was the same as a normal diet. Doesn’t really matter, but it also showed a drop in anabolic hormones like IGF1 and test. But this could be due to TRF probably peaking at different times than regular diet.

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

Actually in controlled settings TRF showed a decrease in fat mass when carlorie intake was the same as a normal diet. Doesn’t really matter, but it also showed a drop in anabolic hormones like IGF1 and test. But this could be due to TRF probably peaking at different times than regular diet.

have not seen that one (yet - so many, really - lots of ramadan) - you have link? thanks!

 

[btothefman]

following this one with interest as I'm doing the same, tried a while back and consistently lost 1kg per week with eating whatever I wanted.

if you have access to dexa or body comp scanning may be worth measuring whether you go catabolic.

another idea is to stop eating at 6pm and bring your eating window forward by 2 hours to make the morning session a non issue.

 

[Imsaint]

following this one with interest as I'm doing the same, tried a while back and consistently lost 1kg per week with eating whatever I wanted.

if you have access to dexa or body comp scanning may be worth measuring whether you go catabolic.

another idea is to stop eating at 6pm and bring your eating window forward by 2 hours to make the morning session a non issue.

I have been trying different windows of time but I haven’t really had the best results with it this far. I dropped my calories down a little more to see if that’s the issue (probably is). I haven’t found that it’s that bad waiting to eat until 11 or 12. I just drink water and black coffee all morning and I don’t even feel that hungry. Even now that I’m on mk677 I’m still alright in the morning.

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

following this one with interest as I'm doing the same, tried a while back and consistently lost 1kg per week with eating whatever I wanted.

what is "eating whatever i wanted"? you mean but in deficit, yes? won't lose fat at surplus, no matter what 'method' of eating. at maintenance, re-comp possible, but becomes harder more trained/lean you get - 2.2lbs? people different, yes, but 2.2lbs per week generally requires your typical "bodybuilder cut" deficit of 750-1000 (or more)kcals. that mean consistent loss too- obviously method that cuts carbs cause rapid water weight loss, due to glycogen depletion and the 3g of water for every 1g glycogen (carbohydrate). you very fortunate if can lose 2.2lbs FAT a week at surplus/maintenance! wish i was you

 

[Imsaint]

what is "eating whatever i wanted"? you mean but in deficit, yes? won't lose fat at surplus, no matter what 'method' of eating. at maintenance, re-comp possible, but becomes harder more trained/lean you get - 2.2lbs? people different, yes, but 2.2lbs per week generally requires your typical "bodybuilder cut" deficit of 750-1000 (or more)kcals. that mean consistent loss too- obviously method that cuts carbs cause rapid water weight loss, due to glycogen depletion and the 3g of water for every 1g glycogen (carbohydrate). you very fortunate if can lose 2.2lbs FAT a week at surplus/maintenance! wish i was you

Same ha

 

[btothefman]

what is "eating whatever i wanted"? you mean but in deficit, yes? won't lose fat at surplus, no matter what 'method' of eating. at maintenance, re-comp possible, but becomes harder more trained/lean you get - 2.2lbs? people different, yes, but 2.2lbs per week generally requires your typical "bodybuilder cut" deficit of 750-1000 (or more)kcals. that mean consistent loss too- obviously method that cuts carbs cause rapid water weight loss, due to glycogen depletion and the 3g of water for every 1g glycogen (carbohydrate). you very fortunate if can lose 2.2lbs FAT a week at surplus/maintenance! wish i was you

funny enough its hard for me to lose fat but easy to fill out - if the protein intake is up and I'm training hard.

for the 1kg a week it was an average but I still had 3 meals similar daily calories, no snacks but the meals were bigger. don't think there was much of a calorie difference just think it was the 15 / 16 hours of no food that done it.

worthy of note i didn't do scans though so not sure if I lost muscle or not. also lost more if avoiding sugar. something to do with fasting and insulin sensitivity, not sure there were many obese hunter gatherers and I like the idea if raised GH levels.

goes against all that I've learnt and used with differing in the past but it works, Joe Rogan did an interview with GSP that got me interested.

https://youtu.be/JxjMdqevE88

was a bit more weight loss if I was doing cardio at night, back on it again now got some life stuff out of the way, training hard again so hoping to make it a lifestyle change now as it pretty easy who do 16 hours (hardest thing is timing the training).

 

[Paulde5]

I think fasting would be a problem if you are easy losing weight(ectomorph). But otherwise smart fapping can be beneficial sometimes.

 

[Chados]

I think fasting would be a problem if you are easy losing weight(ectomorph). But otherwise smart fapping can be beneficial sometimes.

I truly hope that was a mistype haha

 

[Jeremyk1]

I truly hope that was a mistype haha

Nah, I agree with him 100%.

 

[Glow]

I think what you are doing is only meant to make your body shed fat. It is not recommended to workout while fasting. But if you can’t avoid t then you must eat within 30 minutes after working out. Of course, your time for exercising is perfect. You can continue having it at 6- 630 and have your breakfast at 7. It is perfect and falls in your fasting schedule.

 

[matt8483]

I see this being a debate but let’s go. I can only workout in the morning most days of the week and I prefer it. I’m doing intermittent fasting and my window of eating is from 12-8. My workout is usually 6-730 in the morning. AM I ****ING MYSELF WITH HEAVY STRENGTH TRAINING WHILE FASTED?

I love training fasted. However, I am in no way as strong while fasted (training in the morning) as I am with a few meals in me (afternoon).

 

[bboyflash]

@imasaint
The protocol your looking for is in MARTIN BERKHANS book and was on his website...you should look into it, personally train a 430am but start feeding window at 11-12...I have done his protocol and just kept the fast going after training... for me the only difference I’ve noticed was my body tad bit warmer with martins protocol

Hope this helps?

 

[Imsaint]

@imasaint
The protocol your looking for is in MARTIN BERKHANS book and was on his website...you should look into it, personally train a 430am but start feeding window at 11-12...I have done his protocol and just kept the fast going after training... for me the only difference I’ve noticed was my body tad bit warmer with martins protocol

Hope this helps

Perfect ty

 

[Imsaint]

@imasaint
The protocol your looking for is in MARTIN BERKHANS book and was on his website...you should look into it, personally train a 430am but start feeding window at 11-12...I have done his protocol and just kept the fast going after training... for me the only difference I’ve noticed was my body tad bit warmer with martins protocol

Hope this helps

Hey man, just finished the book. I practice most of his ideas already but it was a great read. Deft picked up a couple things. One thing I don’t agree with is he says to drink BCAAs before and after fasted training. Pretty sure that this spikes insulin thus reducing the fat burn that comes from fasting.