Best Legal or Illegal Fat Loss ďAidsĒ

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  1. Best Legal or Illegal Fat Loss ďAidsĒ


    My diets good and have a very active job, my BF varies between 15-18% and Iíve not long ago finished an ECA stack which at first worked very very well but I think my body started to get used to it and it became less effective. I want to get down to about 10% but for the last month or two my weight or BF is not flinching. I just want a boost to help burn fat whilst Iím working (manual labour) as the work I do is basically like Iím working out for 8 hours.

    My question is..Iíve been looking at SARMs, mainly CARDARINE and SR9009 as a stack is that the best option for me? Or is there anything other product legal or illegal that people think are better? I tried Clen a few years ago but donít think Iíd be interested in that again, one of the only reasons along with it stopping working why I wouldnít do ECA again is that here in the UK itís very hard to source and importing it from Canada takes ages and is quite pricey.

    No offence meant to anyone at all but thereís no point in commenting on this thread if your just going to say Ďdiet harderí or Ďdonít take anything illegal etcí because Iíve tried everything now and would just mainly like sound advice from a knowledgeable bunch of guys on here. Thanks in advance.


  2. Yohimbine - legal
    Tren- not
    Clen - not
    Var- not
    •   
       

  3. Best Legal or Illegal Fat Loss ďAidsĒ


    even though you dont want anyone to say that but i have to say it - if you dont loose bf you are NOT in a caloric deficit. especially if your work is basically like working out for 8 hours.

    - how many calories do you eat a day?
    - if its not 3000-4000 kcal i dont see the point why you dont loose fat, have you checked your bloods? tyroid hormones?
    - have you tried a 1-2 day refeed with a bunch of glucose and low fat? (although the body cant adapt that strong, even if dieting a very long time)

    oh and if your only goal is really to loose fat till you reach 10% bf, its absolutely not needed to take any sarms...nothing works without a caloric deficit.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by MooseKnuckle1 View Post
    Yohimbine - legal
    Tren- not
    Clen - not
    Var- not
    ....
    OLYMPUS LABS
    For product questions PM me or email:
    [email protected]

  5. Eca stack was not less affective you just got used to the stims but it still works
    Yohimbine plain or stacked with ec
    Red sky by Choas and Pain
    -Chaos and Pain Rep -
    www.chaosandpain.com
    20% off = brice20 (Not my personal code - just there to hook up AM members)
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Jebrook View Post
    DNP beats em all for fatloss but not something anybody should ever try because overdosing could lead to death
    I have read one post from this guy and wish you hadn't mentioned this compound. He doesn't want advice, he wants something to do the work for him which is why he doesn't want to hear about diet and exercise.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    I have read one post from this guy and wish you hadn't mentioned this compound. He doesn't want advice, he wants something to do the work for him which is why he doesn't want to hear about diet and exercise.
    exactly. without attacking you, OP, but i think your bodyfat is also higher than 15%. that could be the reason why you dont see so much fat loss (in combination with a maybe very little to no caloric deficit). if thats the case, you can VERY easy loose more bodyweight without anything. its hard to keep muscles for a natty below the ~10% range, its also very hard with hunger at this level but if you are higher than that, it really isnt that big of a deal to get in a much better shape.

  8. Yes, to clarify, I am not exactly attacking the OP. I am pointing out what I see, and who can blame him? I want a pill that will get me shredded too. If he decides to regroup and ask about the work, then we will get somewhere.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    exactly. without attacking you, OP, but i think your bodyfat is also higher than 15%. that could be the reason why you dont see so much fat loss (in combination with a maybe very little to no caloric deficit). if thats the case, you can VERY easy loose more bodyweight without anything. its hard to keep muscles for a natty below the ~10% range, its also very hard with hunger at this level but if you are higher than that, it really isnt that big of a deal to get in a much better shape.
    Logic? Woah. Mind blown. Agree with this.

    Also people are so against tracking food at all right now. They act like its a pain but its really like making sure your bills are payed.

    I got 4000 calories as my maintenance. Im choosing to bank 500 so I can save up to not be a fat piece of human garbage. It's gradeschool math.

    If you're not tracking food, I would highly suggest it.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  10. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Logic? Woah. Mind blown. Agree with this.

    Also people are so against tracking food at all right now. They act like its a pain but its really like making sure your bills are payed.

    I got 4000 calories as my maintenance. Im choosing to bank 500 so I can save up to not be a fat piece of human garbage. It's gradeschool math.

    If you're not tracking food, I would highly suggest it.
    Yeah, I actually think for people like me, tracking needs to be taken a step further - PLANNING. If I don't plan what I am going to eat, I wind up having to make decisions and they are decisions that I suck at making.

    Like, I just got home from work and it is 8 PM and I am tired and have no food in the house...do I wanna go to the store and shop, get home at 8 and start preparing to cook and eat at 10? Or do I wanna do take out? I think we all know the decision I will make.
  11. Best Legal or Illegal Fat Loss ďAidsĒ


    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Yeah, I actually think for people like me, tracking needs to be taken a step further - PLANNING. If I don't plan what I am going to eat, I wind up having to make decisions and they are decisions that I suck at making.

    Like, I just got home from work and it is 8 PM and I am tired and have no food in the house...do I wanna go to the store and shop, get home at 8 and start preparing to cook and eat at 10? Or do I wanna do take out? I think we all know the decision I will make.
    why no meal prep for 2-3 days? at least during a cut that would be very beneficial to have enough volume to eat and to get in those micronutrients.

    a few things you have to eat anyway every day:

    - fruits
    - vegetables
    - some protein
    - some carbs
    - some fats

    you know enough variations with every point, so you can choose some food, buy that and plan it for 2-3 days. during these 2-3 days you think about what you want eat the next 2-3 days, maybe the same or maybe you switch some products but you just have to replace it with another product which has the same macros. so where do you have a problem with this? you dont like to plan?

  12. A calorie deficit, cardio and Keto Burn from Mr. Supps.

    https://www.mrsupps.com/products/94/keto-burn/
    Anima Vestra
    Anima Vestra

    Latin

  13. Quote Originally Posted by huhihj View Post
    My diets good and have a very active job, my BF varies between 15-18% and Iíve not long ago finished an ECA stack which at first worked very very well but I think my body started to get used to it and it became less effective. I want to get down to about 10% but for the last month or two my weight or BF is not flinching. I just want a boost to help burn fat whilst Iím working (manual labour) as the work I do is basically like Iím working out for 8 hours.

    My question is..Iíve been looking at SARMs, mainly CARDARINE and SR9009 as a stack is that the best option for me? Or is there anything other product legal or illegal that people think are better? I tried Clen a few years ago but donít think Iíd be interested in that again, one of the only reasons along with it stopping working why I wouldnít do ECA again is that here in the UK itís very hard to source and importing it from Canada takes ages and is quite pricey.

    No offence meant to anyone at all but thereís no point in commenting on this thread if your just going to say Ďdiet harderí or Ďdonít take anything illegal etcí because Iíve tried everything now and would just mainly like sound advice from a knowledgeable bunch of guys on here. Thanks in advance.
    Rethink your position here. What you are saying does not make any sense. Your diet IS NOT GOOD if you have plateaued. It WAS good up until you plateaued. You are no longer getting results so it is no longer a good diet for you... You must change it, or make serious training changes to increase the deficit. The fact you are plateauing at 15-18% leads me to believe that your diet is no where near as good as you think it is. I am an easy gainer and I can drop below 12% without so much as counting a calorie.

    I assume by your diet is good that you mean you eat "clean" but a surplus of clean food will still get you fat, or keep you from losing weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    I have read one post from this guy and wish you hadn't mentioned this compound. He doesn't want advice, he wants something to do the work for him which is why he doesn't want to hear about diet and exercise.
    SHHHHH.... Darwin says it will work itself out...

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Logic? Woah. Mind blown. Agree with this.

    Also people are so against tracking food at all right now. They act like its a pain but its really like making sure your bills are payed.

    I got 4000 calories as my maintenance. Im choosing to bank 500 so I can save up to not be a fat piece of human garbage. It's gradeschool math.

    If you're not tracking food, I would highly suggest it.
    Pyro my man, I love this analogy!!!! I have been living week to week lately, time to balance the budget!

    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Yeah, I actually think for people like me, tracking needs to be taken a step further - PLANNING. If I don't plan what I am going to eat, I wind up having to make decisions and they are decisions that I suck at making.

    Like, I just got home from work and it is 8 PM and I am tired and have no food in the house...do I wanna go to the store and shop, get home at 8 and start preparing to cook and eat at 10? Or do I wanna do take out? I think we all know the decision I will make.
    Yes, but again you have the ability to make the best choice for take out.

    Go keto if in fat loss phase, double meat from anywhere about 40-50g protein and 50-60g fats, or
    1 chick breast 1 beef patty 60p, 31 fats

    Normal day Wendy's fare - 2 large chilis - 52 protein 48c 8 fiber, 12g fat, higher protein lower carb 1 large chili, 1 grilled chicken breast 52g protein 24g carbs 7g fats

    post workout, tacobell cantina power burrito al fresco style with double meat x 2 - protein 80-100g, carbs 100-140g, fats around 20-25 about same macros for the power cantina bowl but uses rice for carbs so less inflammation response and easier to digest.

    Chinese - steamed chicken veggies and rice in white or brown sauce - you measure rice to meet your needs...

    Then there is better places like chilis or whatever you can call in the order and go grab it. You can make things pretty damn healthy that way too.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
  14. Best Legal or Illegal Fat Loss ďAidsĒ


    @MrKleen73 why do you recommend keto? if you love to eat fats and if you its easier for you to eat less carbs than less fat, okay, then go for it. but thats it. keto is not beneficial for us as bodybuilders, for someone that wants to keep his intensity during training as good as possible to keep those gains during a cut. you wont loose more fat with keto nor will you have a better performance in the gym (in regard of performance even the opposite is probably the case). i know that many guys, especially some old-schoolers recommend keto but if you check the research, it clearly sees no benefit but a few possible negatives about it.

    but regardless which diet - adherence is key. without adherence you can have the best meal plan, you still wont reach for goals.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    why no meal prep for 2-3 days? at least during a cut that would be very beneficial to have enough volume to eat and to get in those micronutrients.

    a few things you have to eat anyway every day:

    - fruits
    - vegetables
    - some protein
    - some carbs
    - some fats

    you know enough variations with every point, so you can choose some food, buy that and plan it for 2-3 days. during these 2-3 days you think about what you want eat the next 2-3 days, maybe the same or maybe you switch some products but you just have to replace it with another product which has the same macros. so where do you have a problem with this? you dont like to plan?
    Well, now, that is kind of my point. Meal prep IS planning, right? If it is prepped and ready to go, I don't have to make an on-the-fly decision. It comes down to having a plan for what I am eating, having it stocked, etc. That's all planning though.

    Which is something I learned while dieting, it needs to be planned and now I see a lot of people resist, like pyro is saying people resist tracking.

  16. I'd give cardarine a try.

    Everyone bangs on about getting your diet right and tracking your macros and they are right, but as someone who works 10hr days as a tradesman I have found it very difficult to accurately estimate and forecast daily energy output. A big day at work can throw my whole training week out the window during a cut if I fail to eat enough food.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Rethink your position here. What you are saying does not make any sense. Your diet IS NOT GOOD if you have plateaued. It WAS good up until you plateaued. You are no longer getting results so it is no longer a good diet for you... You must change it, or make serious training changes to increase the deficit. The fact you are plateauing at 15-18% leads me to believe that your diet is no where near as good as you think it is. I am an easy gainer and I can drop below 12% without so much as counting a calorie.

    I assume by your diet is good that you mean you eat "clean" but a surplus of clean food will still get you fat, or keep you from losing weight.



    SHHHHH.... Darwin says it will work itself out...



    Pyro my man, I love this analogy!!!! I have been living week to week lately, time to balance the budget!


    Yes, but again you have the ability to make the best choice for take out.

    Go keto if in fat loss phase, double meat from anywhere about 40-50g protein and 50-60g fats, or
    1 chick breast 1 beef patty 60p, 31 fats

    Normal day Wendy's fare - 2 large chilis - 52 protein 48c 8 fiber, 12g fat, higher protein lower carb 1 large chili, 1 grilled chicken breast 52g protein 24g carbs 7g fats

    post workout, tacobell cantina power burrito al fresco style with double meat x 2 - protein 80-100g, carbs 100-140g, fats around 20-25 about same macros for the power cantina bowl but uses rice for carbs so less inflammation response and easier to digest.

    Chinese - steamed chicken veggies and rice in white or brown sauce - you measure rice to meet your needs...

    Then there is better places like chilis or whatever you can call in the order and go grab it. You can make things pretty damn healthy that way too.
    Haha, but if I am going to get Chinese, am I really going to get steamed veggies? Haha. I am getting 2 pounds of rice at the very least haha.

    I also don't seem yo find healthy options for take out like you listed..seems like everywhere has meals that are at least 1500 calories so I try to avoid take out as much as possible.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Haha, but if I am going to get Chinese, am I really going to get steamed veggies? Haha. I am getting 2 pounds of rice at the very least haha.

    I also don't seem yo find healthy options for take out like you listed..seems like everywhere has meals that are at least 1500 calories so I try to avoid take out as much as possible.
    Chinese food steams their veggies in the box. See it creates steam so its like -200 calories.

    Atleast thats how my mental gymnastics works when I smell some good chinese food.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  19. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Chinese food steams their veggies in the box. See it creates steam so its like -200 calories.

    Atleast thats how my mental gymnastics works when I smell some good chinese food.
    Yeah, between that and the gallon of ice cold water I will drink with it...fat burn city!

  20. Best legal is to recover/reset your metabolism, I think your body was in stress condition for too long to loose more bf, I would stop stimulants, keep same diet and train less then you restart cutting
    You can also post a pic to see better

  21. Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    @MrKleen73 why do you recommend keto? if you love to eat fats and if you its easier for you to eat less carbs than less fat, okay, then go for it. but thats it. keto is not beneficial for us as bodybuilders, for someone that wants to keep his intensity during training as good as possible to keep those gains during a cut. you wont loose more fat with keto nor will you have a better performance in the gym (in regard of performance even the opposite is probably the case). i know that many guys, especially some old-schoolers recommend keto but if you check the research, it clearly sees no benefit but a few possible negatives about it.

    but regardless which diet - adherence is key. without adherence you can have the best meal plan, you still wont reach for goals.
    I didn't actually recommend keto here, I just gave a keto option, and many other options for specific reasons or situations. Just basically to show that there are options with macros in the right ranges for about any situation readily available at most any fast food place. Just something for those in a pinch moments or for convenience for those not as committed to nutrition at the time. Also there really is not better muscle retention from higher carb dieting... well unless counting glycogen and sarcoplasmic volume. However that can be regained in hours through hydration and a carb intake. Keto also improves insulin sensitivity among many other health benefits. I recommend things based on the individual situation, and what I know about the person. So if I were recommending keto to someone during a specific time then it would be based on the big picture for what I know about how they respond to food, both biologically and psychologically.

    I have done plenty of research regarding both keto and balanced diets and all of the above. The bottom line is there is no one optimal way for everyone. Just way too many factors from hormonal reactions to receptor differences to plain old genetics. Also many of the studies done on both sides are short sided in a lot of ways that someone with a very good understanding of nutrition on both sides will recognize quickly when looking at them. In general I would agree that for someone to create maximal anabolism they need to find whatever the highest amount of carbs they can manage to hold an acceptable composition, AND maintain insulin sensitivity.

    However like you mentioned there is also the premise of the diet that you can follow is the one that is right for you. If it is easier for someone to maintain discipline with a keto diet , then to eat carbs and not do well fighting off the cravings which is the case for many. In that case until said person gets more discipline keto might be the best diet for THEM to lean out. At least at that time and station in their life.



    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Haha, but if I am going to get Chinese, am I really going to get steamed veggies? Haha. I am getting 2 pounds of rice at the very least haha.

    I also don't seem yo find healthy options for take out like you listed..seems like everywhere has meals that are at least 1500 calories so I try to avoid take out as much as possible.
    Well see that is not a matter of planning there, that is choosing to make the wrong decision when you have a better option just as convenient to you. Also I mentioned adjusting rice to your needs. If you legitimately require 2lbs of rice good otherwise control yourself... The point is it is no less convenient to make a good decision, other than having to special order sometimes.

    Special order, don't be silly. double whopper hold the bun, put it in a salad tray with the lettuce pickle and tomato... douse with mustard!

    You tell them how you want it and you pay for getting it your way.

    Wendy's charges $2.50 for their grilled chicken breast alacarte just order it cut up in a salad dish and a large chili then dump chili over chicken and devour... All of the fast food places will do this type of thing for you. I have only been to one in my many years of special ordering that wouldn't make me a special order, and it was just that franchise, not the chain. I walked out and did without until I got home and had a shake.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Chinese food steams their veggies in the box. See it creates steam so its like -200 calories.

    Atleast thats how my mental gymnastics works when I smell some good chinese food.
    Yeah no doubt.
    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Yeah, between that and the gallon of ice cold water I will drink with it...fat burn city!
    Depending on the diet though, and when being eaten full fat Chinese is still not a bad option. I do Hunan Chicken post workout sometimes with the hole container of rice that it comes with which is a tightly packed pint. As long as I already had carbs and protein from intra, this ia a great post workout meal. Insulin from the rice will be down about the time that the fats from the meal enter the bloodstream and that works out nicely in the evenings to keep a bit of calories coming in overnight.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  22. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    It's been 3 hours since the OP posted... and he's gone.
    Yeah, now we are just having a conversation. Forget the OP, we have.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  23. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Well see that is not a matter of planning there, that is choosing to make the wrong decision when you have a better option just as convenient to you. Also I mentioned adjusting rice to your needs. If you legitimately require 2lbs of rice good otherwise control yourself... The point is it is no less convenient to make a good decision, other than having to special order sometimes.

    .
    Again, that is my point. I SUCK at making those decisions on the fly. The only away to avoid that is planning so that I don't get in that situation.

    You are kind of saying that an alcoholic can go into the liquor store to get a bottle of water. He is best avoiding the liquor store altogether.

    Food is my addiction, I grew up with really bad options being the norm and my defaults suck.

    The thing is, most people who are fat are fat because they suck at making decisions on the fly. No one sits down and plans out eating a big Mac to get fat. They do it because it is convenient and tastes good and in the fly it is easier to give up your future for right now.

    Actually, any SMART person would choose a high calorie meal today over something healthier if you look at it purely from a decision analysis perspective. I mean, sure I will sacrifice my health tomorrow for enjoyment today rather than sacrifice today for health tomorrow. I may not even be here tomorrow, so why suffer now?

    Eating salad is kind of a gamble.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Again, that is my point. I SUCK at making those decisions on the fly. The only away to avoid that is planning so that I don't get in that situation.

    You are kind of saying that an alcoholic can go into the liquor store to get a bottle of water. He is best avoiding the liquor store altogether.

    Food is my addiction, I grew up with really bad options being the norm and my defaults suck.

    The thing is, most people who are fat are fat because they suck at making decisions on the fly. No one sits down and plans out eating a big Mac to get fat. They do it because it is convenient and tastes good and in the fly it is easier to give up your future for right now.

    Actually, any SMART person would choose a high calorie meal today over something healthier if you look at it purely from a decision analysis perspective. I mean, sure I will sacrifice my health tomorrow for enjoyment today rather than sacrifice today for health tomorrow. I may not even be here tomorrow, so why suffer now?

    Eating salad is kind of a gamble.
    I love how you jump to these really weird extreme analogies. It actually made me smile.

    "You are kind of saying that an alcoholic can go into the liquor store to get a bottle of water. He is best avoiding the liquor store altogether."

    Thats not true at all. He would be best to learn how to deal with those urges because they are going to be presented with them every single day of their lives. You picked the wrong topic here pimpin. I got 30 years of 12 step program experience here. Dad has 30+ years of sobriety, I spent years in AlaNon and Alateen. The best solution is indeed for the alcoholic to learn to abstain in all situations and not expect others to change behavior to cater to their disease. Avoidance of the situation helps, and is far easier but in the end if the only place to get water is the liquor store and he needs water it is best he get it at the liquor store.

    However with what you are saying, which is that you do go to the liquor store to get water... IE fast food places, and decide fug it I am getting the chubby combo since I didn't pre plan a reasonable meal I must make a bad decision now that I am here. That is like trying to justify that since he went into the liquor store for water knowing he is an alcoholic he should go ahead and grab a few 5ths of whiskey because he hadn't made a plan to have water on hand. That's illogical and says exactly why you need to make better choices in those instances.

    You blamed the reason for the failure initially on not planning. I put a big hole in that by saying you are still responsible for your decision and there were just as convenient to get options at the same places you are already going to. That is fact and goes around the planning issue. Now it is the impulse control issue that you have to at least try to overcome. I only manage to control it about 80% of the time. Others I get the chubby meal too, but I am a lot less chubby than I would be if I just ate the goodies every time I found myself looking for a convenient meal.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  25. Quote Originally Posted by BennyMagoo79 View Post
    I'd give cardarine a try.

    Everyone bangs on about getting your diet right and tracking your macros and they are right, but as someone who works 10hr days as a tradesman I have found it very difficult to accurately estimate and forecast daily energy output. A big day at work can throw my whole training week out the window during a cut if I fail to eat enough food.
    So how does a PPAR-delta agonist sort out your inability to estimate TDEE?
    OLYMPUS LABS R&D
    Any OL questions? DM me on IG: Skinnybozz (Check more frequently than AM PMs)
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