Abs when cutting?

[bell1986]

When do you guys really start to notice your abs are showing without flexing? Im currently cutting (Only 2 weeks so far though so very early)

When flex'd my abs looked very well shaped and developed but soon as i dont flex they are very faded.

I done a skinfold reading of my bottom ab region and its 6mm on the callipers. Seems fairly leanish. I have always carried fat around this area and of course my love handles and back. I've always wanted to have a 4-6 pack and im gonna keep cutting this time to see how lean i can get. I was very overweight in my 20's and well had an awful body tbh but ive worked hard and look very good these days. I know abs are nothing in some peoples eyes but i would like to push myself so i can just say i have developed a very good body these days.

I train abs 3 times per week without a very good routine. Weighted exercises usually.

I hate that period when your cutting and also glycogen depleted that you almost look worse in the mirror.. Is thier a point that you pass and that all changes?

Thanks

 

[APC80]

Takes a good while from the point of when your abs are starting to show until you have a six pack without flexing. You'll be surprised at how much fat you're actually carrying. Belly fat is the last to go with men usually which makes you look a bit skinny fat for a while till you get lean. If you're natural you will look pretty small when you cut to 10-12%bf especially in a t-shirt. On the other hand you look a lot better with no top on.

The glycogen depletion is just an illusion, your muscles are smaller so the fat is more apparent, when you get under 14% you start to actually look better. Just keep at it mate you'll be glad you did it in the end.

 

[bell1986]

Takes a good while from the point of when your abs are starting to show until you have a six pack without flexing. You'll be surprised at how much fat you're actually carrying. Belly fat is the last to go with men usually which makes you look a bit skinny fat for a while till you get lean. If you're natural you will look pretty small when you cut to 10-12%bf especially in a t-shirt. On the other hand you look a lot better with no top on.

The glycogen depletion is just an illusion, your muscles are smaller so the fat is more apparent, when you get under 14% you start to actually look better. Just keep at it mate you'll be glad you did it in the end.

Yeh im gonna just stick with it. I have my diet & training structured almost perfect at the moment in terms of hunger and covering all my macros perfectly. Its probably the best i have ever structured it.

Ive noticed some folk say 3 month cutting even when thier leanish to start seeing thier abs as they want? Xmas will be a slight upset as im not gonna be unsociable on xmas day and relax but i will diet perfectly up until the 25th and restart again around the 27th.

I have that illusion at the moment. I still look decent but i just feel very flat around my chest etc. But.. Its part of the trip i suppose. Does it start to lool alot better in due course? Its not putting me off but alot of folk will comment *Getting a bit skinny these days are you not* but.. Leather ears and a brush it off.

Thanks for the advice. Appreciated

 

[APC80]

No harm in having a diet break for a couple of days over Christmas It'll do ya good as long as it doesn't get out of hand too much. I'm planning a mini-cut in the new year myself cos I know I'll overdo it and come out the other side of the holidays a fat bastard lol

Don't worry about your chest it'll look great when you start to see it cut up which will probably be the first thing you notice.

Yea people will say things like 'what are you trying to lose weight for you're skinny already' but they're used to seeing the average guys walking round at high body fat levels. Just politely tell them to **** right off.

 

[john.patterson]

Having visible abs without flexing isn't a guarantee, even if you're sub 10% bodyfat. The shape of your abdominals is very genetic and some people don't have them unflexed. I know for me personally I can be super lean (usually in the 8-9% range during the summer) and my abs still don't look too great unless I'm holding my core tight. Don't determine your progress on your 6-pack though. Keep consistent and results will come.

Regarding glycogen depletion, what is your current carb intake? I prefer carb cycling during a cut to eliminate the constant feeling of depletion. Adding in refeed or high carb days with a GDA or nutrient partitioner can really help eliminate the depleted feeling. I always incorporate 1-2 high carb days during the week while cutting and I use Slinmax for nutrient partitioning. This protocol always gives me a "recharge" and allows me to push forward and keep the cut going strong.

 

[bell1986]

Having visible abs without flexing isn't a guarantee, even if you're sub 10% bodyfat. The shape of your abdominals is very genetic and some people don't have them unflexed. I know for me personally I can be super lean (usually in the 8-9% range during the summer) and my abs still don't look too great unless I'm holding my core tight. Don't determine your progress on your 6-pack though. Keep consistent and results will come.

Regarding glycogen depletion, what is your current carb intake? I prefer carb cycling during a cut to eliminate the constant feeling of depletion. Adding in refeed or high carb days with a GDA or nutrient partitioner can really help eliminate the depleted feeling. I always incorporate 1-2 high carb days during the week while cutting and I use Slinmax for nutrient partitioning. This protocol always gives me a "recharge" and allows me to push forward and keep the cut going strong.

I can see my abs but thier very faded. I carry the majority of my fat around the waist/love handles area. I am lean though but i have always wanted to cut till im quite shredded looking. Im gonna cut for another month or 2 (Xmas break in thier though) Im noticing that i am becoming slightly drawn (Face). After then i will lean bulk but train them 3x a week and try grow them over a year period. I do train them at the moment aswell. Yeh i think some people just have good abs even without hitting them and they show even at 12-15% fat for some. If i get to 10-12% bodyfat i will see how it is and if i feel i just dont have good abs then i will just get myself back into a bulk. Is that you in your display pic? You have a great physique.

In terms of a GDA i just do my own. Chromium Picolinate & I add a fair amount of Cinnamon to my foods.

Current macro's are
160-200G Carbs (I tweak these based on my days output.. ie I cycle'd 22 mile yesterday so i bumped the carbs)
200G Protein (I do slightly above 1.2 per lb body weight)
65G Fat

I have a refeed this Saturday the 16th (First refeed in 16 days). 500 Grams Carbs. 180G Protein and 50G of Fat. (Around 3200 Calories). After then it will be the 25th (Xmas)

I seem satisfied with these macro's in terms of retaining my muscle and also to fit into my Intermittent Fasting routine. I am definately depleted and flat feeling but i know its part of the process. The leaner i get would it be advised to incorpate more carbs?

Here is a pic from yesterday (Flex). Not the best lighting but gives an idea of where i am at Think i should just keep cutting?

 

[Whisky]

I can see my abs but thier very faded. I carry the majority of my fat around the waist/love handles area. I am lean though but i have always wanted to cut till im quite shredded looking. Im gonna cut for another month or 2 (Xmas break in thier though) Im noticing that i am becoming slightly drawn (Face). After then i will lean bulk but train them 3x a week and try grow them over a year period. I do train them at the moment aswell. Yeh i think some people just have good abs even without hitting them and they show even at 12-15% fat for some. If i get to 10-12% bodyfat i will see how it is and if i feel i just dont have good abs then i will just get myself back into a bulk. Is that you in your display pic? You have a great physique.

In terms of a GDA i just do my own. Chromium Picolinate & I add a fair amount of Cinnamon to my foods.

Current macro's are
160-200G Carbs (I tweak these based on my days output.. ie I cycle'd 22 mile yesterday so i bumped the carbs)
200G Protein (I do slightly above 1.2 per lb body weight)
65G Fat

I have a refeed this Saturday the 16th (First refeed in 16 days). 500 Grams Carbs. 180G Protein and 50G of Fat. (Around 3200 Calories). After then it will be the 25th (Xmas)

I seem satisfied with these macro's in terms of retaining my muscle and also to fit into my Intermittent Fasting routine. I am definately depleted and flat feeling but i know its part of the process. The leaner i get would it be advised to incorpate more carbs?

Here is a pic from yesterday (Flex). Not the best lighting but gives an idea of where i am at Think i should just keep cutting?

View attachment 158468

You look good bro, IMO your already just below 12% bf (10 or 11%).

To keep cutting or not depends on your goals. If you are going to have you looked into a competition prep plan? I think you’d need something more refined to get down below 10%.

Personally I’d be looking to lean bulk from now with a cut planned prior to next summer to get absolutely shredded.....

 

[bell1986]

You look good bro, IMO your already just below 12% bf (10 or 11%).

To keep cutting or not depends on your goals. If you are going to have you looked into a competition prep plan? I think you’d need something more refined to get down below 10%.

Personally I’d be looking to lean bulk from now with a cut planned prior to next summer to get absolutely shredded.....

Thanks bro

I always thought i was kicking near 13-15% bodyfat? Im gonna keep cutting for another month or so i would rather be as lean as i can then do a decent length of a bulk. I dont mind regaining some fat in the process. Ive done bulk's previous where i have been already bulky and just looked puffy and bloated all the way.

 

[Whisky]

Thanks bro

I always thought i was kicking near 13-15% bodyfat? Im gonna keep cutting for another month or so i would rather be as lean as i can then do a decent length of a bulk. I dont mind regaining some fat in the process. Ive done bulk's previous where i have been already bulky and just looked puffy and bloated all the way.

Oh I totally agree with being lean before a bulk - 100%.

I guess my definition of lean and yours may differ lol, I’m personally sure your below 12% in that picture - would be interested in others views.

Guessing you don’t have any option of hydrostatic weighing or dexa to check?

IMO there is something of a balancing act, to drive bodyfat down past a certain point requires more precise plans which would normally start to take some lean mass as well, getting stage ready a competitor would accept this but for you it might just mean your start a touch further behind where you could. Just a thought anyway, good luck bro

 

[bell1986]

The dexa scans here are a ridiculous price ie £200 £250.. A would rather buy good food with that lol

I do have body fat scales.. The hand and feet ones.. That shows 11% on that but i never use that as a guide.. At all

I will just go on how i look in the mirror.. I also use fat callipers and do a Skinfold test once a week to see how the fat around the mid section is changing. I prefer these methods than standing on a scale as weight can fluctuate all the time (Sodium etc)

What you on at the moment?

 

[APC80]

I find it impossible to estimate body fat % when someone is flexing but you look pretty lean. Keep cutting if you want but if you are under 12% you'll soon hit a point where the fat loss crawls to a snails pace and you need to start getting smarter about it. You're right to cut as much as you can, I did it in the summer and made the best gains of my life when I started bulking and training hard again.

 

[Whisky]

The dexa scans here are a ridiculous price ie £200 £250.. A would rather buy good food with that lol

I do have body fat scales.. The hand and feet ones.. That shows 11% on that but i never use that as a guide.. At all

I will just go on how i look in the mirror.. I also use fat callipers and do a Skinfold test once a week to see how the fat around the mid section is changing. I prefer these methods than standing on a scale as weight can fluctuate all the time (Sodium etc)

What you on at the moment?

I’m on ‘desperately clinging to cycle gains in pct’ at the moment bro lol.

Guessing from the use of the £ you are in the uk?

If you are near London (or go to London) then check out bodyscan, they have two London sites, standard price for a single scan (without consultation which I don’t see why you would need anyway) is £139 but if you get on their mailing list they often have one off deals where it’s below £100 (I’ve had a couple where I paid £89). Phil Chant the guy who owns it is pretty sound if you contact directly looking for a deal....I like to get one every year or so just to give me a point of reference, I have loose skin from being a fat bastard for a long time so it’s really tough to judge.

Agree about bio impendance, pointless. I’ve had one put me at 7.1%, another put me at 20.3% and then a dexa at 10.4% all on the same day lol

 

[bell1986]

I find it impossible to estimate body fat % when someone is flexing but you look pretty lean. Keep cutting if you want but if you are under 12% you'll soon hit a point where the fat loss crawls to a snails pace and you need to start getting smarter about it. You're right to cut as much as you can, I did it in the summer and made the best gains of my life when I started bulking and training hard again.

Is that around about the 10% mark?

I know alot of folk don't believe in intermittent fasting but for fat loss (For me personally) it is a god send. I can easily fast for 20-24 hours everyday, Yes i feel hungry (ish) but as soon as i eat anything that contains carbs an hour later the hunger is FAR worse than when im in the fast.. Because my insulin has spiked then started to drop. I utilise this on a cut to manage hunger and for me it keeps fat loss moving without any problems and also any health benefits it gives. I know during a bulk this isn't beneficial to eat like this but during a cut. Amazing.


I know the Dexa is the most accurate on body fat percent but doesn't it still have a load of flaws? Thiers a few youtube guys who have them and it comes out to like 6% and your like that cant be right?

 

[Whisky]

I know the Dexa is the most accurate on body fat percent but doesn't it still have a load of flaws? Thiers a few youtube guys who have them and it comes out to like 6% and your like that cant be right?

Dexa will be pretty close for anyone mate. Nothing is 100% but to the best of my knowledge dexa is considered the gold standard for body composition data.

Different machines do ‘read high or low’ but my understanding is that it’s 1-2% at most.

 

[bell1986]

Dexa will be pretty close for anyone mate. Nothing is 100% but to the best of my knowledge dexa is considered the gold standard for body composition data.

Different machines do ‘read high or low’ but my understanding is that it’s 1-2% at most.

Yeh im in the Uk Scotland so im on the opposite side from London lol but thiers places in our capitals up this end who do the Dexa also.

might invest in one after the new year.

Do they give a print out of everything?

Be a good start point for after a cut i reckon then bulk for a few month and re-do one just to see how much mass you have put on and also if your gaining fat at too quick a rate and tweek your calories if need be.

A will keep a look out for deals floating around and see if i can get myself booked in.

 

[Whisky]

Yeh im in the Uk Scotland so im on the opposite side from London lol but thiers places in our capitals up this end who do the Dexa also.

might invest in one after the new year.

Do they give a print out of everything?

Be a good start point for after a cut i reckon then bulk for a few month and re-do one just to see how much mass you have put on and also if your gaining fat at too quick a rate and tweek your calories if need be.

A will keep a look out for deals floating around and see if i can get myself booked in.

Ironically I was in Scotland just yesterday (scots boarders).

Yep you get a full print out and it’s really detailed. As well as the overall body composition numbers (inc bone density, lbm, bf etc) you get that information by body part. Allows you to see if you have a muscle inbalance right to left hand side etc.

I think bodyscan have example reports on their website.....

 

[APC80]

Is that around about the 10% mark?

I know alot of folk don't believe in intermittent fasting but for fat loss (For me personally) it is a god send. I can easily fast for 20-24 hours everyday, Yes i feel hungry (ish) but as soon as i eat anything that contains carbs an hour later the hunger is FAR worse than when im in the fast.. Because my insulin has spiked then started to drop. I utilise this on a cut to manage hunger and for me it keeps fat loss moving without any problems and also any health benefits it gives. I know during a bulk this isn't beneficial to eat like this but during a cut. Amazing.


I know the Dexa is the most accurate on body fat percent but doesn't it still have a load of flaws? Thiers a few youtube guys who have them and it comes out to like 6% and your like that cant be right?

Dunno what I was but it was def below 12% I'd a six pack and started to get lower ab veins. Bit depressing that 4 months later I've a 2 pack lol but that's the price you have to pay to build more muscle I suppose.

I fast as well to lose fat but I only do 12-14 hours purely for the fact I find it easier to manage hunger. I really just cut out breakfast, I feel terrible if my meals are spaced too far apart. I've had a few dizzy spells feeling like I'm gonna collapse but with fasting I feel perfectly fine.

If you search there's an index of dexa verified bf% somewhere on the internet. Thing is people carry fat in different places so it's hard to estimate just by looking at a pic. I'll see if I can find it and put the link up for ya.

 

[APC80]

http://www.kingofthegym.com/body-fat-percentage/#Real_Life_DEXA-Verified_Body_Fat_Percentage_Photos

Found it. These are all verified with the photos of their dexa scan results included. There's a guy at 17% looks the best out of all them imo, just shows having a low body fat percentage doesn't mean you look great, some of those under 12% look like skeletons ffs.