Is this deficit safe?

[DK0313]

I ended a M1T cycle about 4, weeks ago and gained over 20 lbs. And Ihave been cutting for the past week and a half. I've been doing 1,000 calories of cardio a day on too of my workout routine to create a 1,500 calorie deficit. I'm 5'10 and 170 lbs. I eat 220 grams of protein a day and keep my other macros in check. I want to know if it's safe to cut that many calories a day without losing any muscle so long as I keep my protein intake up.

 

[john.patterson]

Welcome to the forum. So if I'm reading this correctly, you're eating 500 below maintenance and adding in cardio that's measuring 1000cals?

If you're just starting a cut, that's a lot of cardio. Your goal for a cut should be to lose 1-1.5 pounds per week, and not much more than that. Even if your protein is high, being at too significant of a deficit can result in a loss of strength and muscle. Also keep in mind that it might be easy to do this much cardio now, but when you plateau you will either need to eat less calories or add in more cardio.

In my opinion, doing that much cardio every day is too excessive if you're just starting out on a cut. I would start with a 500 calorie deficit and maybe 2-3 days of 20-30 minutes of cardio per week and see how it goes. More is not always better. What type of cardio are you doing? And what type of machine are you using that is giving you the 1000kcal number?

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

Welcome to the forum. So if I'm reading this correctly, you're eating 500 below maintenance and adding in cardio that's measuring 1000cals?

If you're just starting a cut, that's a lot of cardio. Your goal for a cut should be to lose 1-1.5 pounds per week, and not much more than that. Even if your protein is high, being at too significant of a deficit can result in a loss of strength and muscle. Also keep in mind that it might be easy to do this much cardio now, but when you plateau you will either need to eat less calories or add in more cardio.

In my opinion, doing that much cardio every day is too excessive if you're just starting out on a cut. I would start with a 500 calorie deficit and maybe 2-3 days of 20-30 minutes of cardio per week and see how it goes. More is not always better. What type of cardio are you doing? And what type of machine are you using that is giving you the 1000kcal number?

What he said ^^^

 

[DK0313]

My maintenance is 2100 and I eat 2,000 a day. I run 8 miles when my Achilles is feeling okay and for the other days I typically do either 1,100 on the arc trainer, NEVER holding on. Extra 100 for overestimated calories, or 700 on the elliptical and 300 on the stair stepper, again no holding on. The only reason I want to cut so quickly is so I can start up a bulk again but do it much cleaner than last time so I don't gain so much excess fat. I ate clean: egg whites, chicken breasts, coconut oil, flax seed, ton of leafy greens, and some oats. However I was eating 4000 or so calories a day with little to no cardio. I was testing the calories in calories out theory for weight gain. I've also done keto for 3 months and had the same experience. So that seems to be very true.

 

[john.patterson]

How long were you bulking for? And you were eating 1900 above maintenance? Something seems off with your calcs to me. What is your current estimated body fat %?

If you've established that your maintenance is 2100, I would suggest lowering your calories a bit rather than performing excessive cardio. What is your current training program? I think there are better methods than spending 90+ minutes on a cardio machine every day. Cutting "faster" will be counterproductive and will result in your metabolism to slow to compensate for the large deficit. I would suggest taking a slower approach and be patient with it. I would also adjust your macros and cut back on cardio - too much cardio can have negative impacts on overall progress, especially on strength and muscle gain

 

[DK0313]

I was bulking for three months, a month and a half, then a month on M1T, then another two weeks after cycle just to maintain my gains. And yes it is 2100. I was supposed to be eating 2700 or so a day to build muscle after my weightliging session and i was eating around 4000. And I'm assuming I'm about 18% body fat right now. I'm cut but I hold almost al my fat directly in my abdomen. I've thought lowering my calories and burning less would be worse than eating more and burning more. Plus I love to eat lol.

 

[DK0313]

Also I'm only doing cardio for 60 minutes a day nowhere near 90+, about 2-2.5 hours a day with my workout regimen

 

[john.patterson]

Also I'm only doing cardio for 60 minutes a day nowhere near 90+, about 2-2.5 hours a day with my workout regimen

Gotcha. Well what I wrote above is still my opinion - a 1,500 calorie deficit is excessive. It might work for a short period, but it would be smarter to take a slower approach, cut back on the cardio, and focus more on your diet.

Depending on the cardio machine you're using, it's likely that the "1000 calores burned" that the machine says is inaccurate. It's a good way to keep your cardio consistent, but I wouldn't use that number as a hard value to factor into your deficit. It would make more sense to cut back on cardio and dial in your food intake IMO

 

[TheMovement]

Well your not on cycle anymore so your body isn't running in an enhanced state.

On top of that your in a suppressed state so hormonally your behind the wagon as well.

Then you decided to cut your calories, boost your energy expenditure, and your still strength training???

Way too much and even on cycle the benefits won't be noticeable and you will burnout.

You are indeed overdoing it and you will not keep gains made on cycle simply because you aren't feeding anything. You WILL atrophy. There's no way to make something out of nothing.

You want to lose bf around the abdomen...clean up the diet even more. There's always room for improvement.

 

[DK0313]

I've changed my diet to just 24 egg whites 6 egs and several servings of 8 oz chicken breasts and 40g of protein post workout that is all. And I also have another question after taking m1t I needed a pct and couldn't find clomid orr anything so I used something with a test boosting blend, anti estrogenic blend and some other stuff. However my testicles are legit half the size of what they we're pre cycle.. Is there anything I can do to fix that as well

 

[DK0313]

Also I'm taking clear muscle, peak-atp, epitatchen, and laxogenin to prevent any muscle loss while cutting so hard, would this prevent it or am I just being too extreme and should up my calories

 

[TheMovement]

I've changed my diet to just 24 egg whites 6 egs and several servings of 8 oz chicken breasts and 40g of protein post workout that is all. And I also have another question after taking m1t I needed a pct and couldn't find clomid orr anything so I used something with a test boosting blend, anti estrogenic blend and some other stuff. However my testicles are legit half the size of what they we're pre cycle.. Is there anything I can do to fix that as well

That because you used something OTC instead of what you actually needed. What test booster was it? Sadly we can't post sources on this forum (or I don't think so), but someone may be able to PM you a source worth working through. Send me a message about it tomorrow if no one chimes in on that. You need carbs. Throw in some whole wheat grains and some lentils.

Everything you've been doing so far isn't exactly wrong, and I applaud your intensity and dedication to making a change, but there's just better ways to do it. Hope I don't sound too harsh or too know it all like but trust me when I tell you there's a better road to your goal(s).

 

[DK0313]

It was otc but it was at a nutrition place not like gnc or anything like that, they sold warms and prohormones that's where I got the m1t and they told me I needed a good pct and gave me that stuff so I trusted them they we're all obviously on gear so I figured they knew what they we're talking about

 

[TheMovement]

It was otc but it was at a nutrition place not like gnc or anything like that, they sold warms and prohormones that's where I got the m1t and they told me I needed a good pct and gave me that stuff so I trusted them they we're all obviously on gear so I figured they knew what they we're talking about

Never trust the peeps getting commission lol.

 

[DK0313]

I know that now I just had an interview at gnc I had no idea..

 

[DK0313]

 

[DK0313]

That's the pct they gave me, and that's all I took other than some liver support I bought that, I took on and following cycle

 

[TheMovement]

Damnit man

 

[TheMovement]

That's the pct they gave me, and that's all I took other than some liver support I bought that, I took on and following cycle

Check out M-Tests profile. You will be a lot happier.

I'd highly suggest getting some bloodworm done to see where your at.

 

[DK0313]

Check out M-Tests profile. You will be a lot happier.

I'd highly suggest getting some bloodworm done to see where your at.

What do you mean check out M-Tests profile? And yeah I probably should

 

[TheMovement]

What do you mean check out M-Tests profile? And yeah I probably should

That's a test booster! OL Testify, that's a test booster! I hate prop blends simply because there is no definitive amount listed. You have to take it for whatever is listed and hope for the best.

Get some lab work so you can stop guessing. How old are you? How long has it actually been since you ended your cycle?

 

[DK0313]

That's a test booster! OL Testify, that's a test booster! I hate prop blends simply because there is no definitive amount listed. You have to take it for whatever is listed and hope for the best.

Get some lab work so you can stop guessing. How old are you? How long has it actually been since you ended your cycle?

I'm only 20 and I ended my cycle 31 days ago

 

[HIT4ME]

Asking if a specific deficit is safe is hard to say - someone could have a strict diet at 600 calories and be OK while someone else is less strict at 900 calories a day and have issues. People worry about going too low on calories. Most of the time you don't lose muscle/health from a caloric deficit, you lose it from a protein deficit. If you get sufficient protein, vitamins and minerals - your caloric intake does not matter.

Having said that, John.Patterson's advice is pretty easy to agree with.

One thing I will say - if you're looking to create a deficit you are usually better to do it through reducing dietary intake than through increasing exercise levels. Too much exercise increases your caloric needs, protein needs, recovery needs, etc. while reducing leptin levels and causing more hunger. I'm not afraid of someone with a 2100 cal/day TDEE going to 1000 calories of food intake a day (provided you get at least 0.8 g protein/pound of lean mass) - but I would warn against some pitfalls of going to 1500 calories a day and doing 1500 calories in exercise to boot.

I am typing this message after having spent 6 months last year eating 600-800 cals/day with 1-2 cheat meals/week. It isn't recommended and if you're going to go into more than 1,000 calories/day deficit I really recommend you read some of Lyle McDonald's work.

 

[paul56778]

Asking if a specific deficit is safe is hard to say - someone could have a strict diet at 600 calories and be OK while someone else is less strict at 900 calories a day and have issues. People worry about going too low on calories. Most of the time you don't lose muscle/health from a caloric deficit, you lose it from a protein deficit. If you get sufficient protein, vitamins and minerals - your caloric intake does not matter.

Having said that, John.Patterson's advice is pretty easy to agree with.

One thing I will say - if you're looking to create a deficit you are usually better to do it through reducing dietary intake than through increasing exercise levels. Too much exercise increases your caloric needs, protein needs, recovery needs, etc. while reducing leptin levels and causing more hunger. I'm not afraid of someone with a 2100 cal/day TDEE going to 1000 calories of food intake a day (provided you get at least 0.8 g protein/pound of lean mass) - but I would warn against some pitfalls of going to 1500 calories a day and doing 1500 calories in exercise to boot.

I am typing this message after having spent 6 months last year eating 600-800 cals/day with 1-2 cheat meals/week. It isn't recommended and if you're going to go into more than 1,000 calories/day deficit I really recommend you read some of Lyle McDonald's work.

I can agree with this, i did PSMF last year and have been back on it for last 3 weeks after 6 weeks of being Keto,

I am running on around 1000-1100 calories per day, 180-200 grams of protein, 30-35 g net carbs, and only around 15-16 g of fat including my 6g of omega3, i also have included a serving of greens powder in this calorie number. I had my 1st re-feed yesterday after doing PSMF for 20 days straight.

I find it to be the fastest way of reducing bodyfat and dose not cause me to lose muscle mass, but i am sure it would work much better if on cycle and with the use of T3 + Clen.

I would rather eat less and train with weights and use the deficit in calories to lose fat rather than perform up to 2 hours of cardio a day to burn around 800-1000 calories. if i was training with weights 6 days per week and performing that amount of cardio i would soon burn through a lot of muscle unless assisted and even then there is the possibility, cardio also makes me even hungrier and feel like **** afterwards unlike weight training which is another reason i do not like it for fat loss or creating a calorie deficit.

 

[Georgiepecker]

It's safe in my book...extreme but fine. Been at a 2000 caloric deficit for the past 2 weeks and havent even hit the gym because of my injury...curled today just to see where I'm at and curled same weight/reps so I'm excited to see how I do when I fully recover(split stitches open again doing this, was stupid ahaha)

 

[u_e_s_i]

That's a test booster! OL Testify, that's a test booster! I hate prop blends simply because there is no definitive amount listed. You have to take it for whatever is listed and hope for the best.

Get some lab work so you can stop guessing. How old are you? How long has it actually been since you ended your cycle?

Would a cycle on a proper PCT reverse atrophy or would something stronger like a SERM be needed?

 

[cubsfan815]

Would a cycle on a proper PCT reverse atrophy or would something stronger like a SERM be needed?

I believe you ask this in different ways in different threads. You need to either go get bloodwork done, or at least grab a SERM and see if it helps.

 

[TheMovement]

Would a cycle on a proper PCT reverse atrophy or would something stronger like a SERM be needed?

Depends on the cause of atrophy. I feel I don't understand the question.

 

[HIT4ME]

Would a cycle on a proper PCT reverse atrophy or would something stronger like a SERM be needed?

Depends on the cause of atrophy. I feel I don't understand the question.

^^^^Yeah, this.

What is your question really? Will a PCT cycle reverse atrophy caused by a large caloric deficit? No. Mass cannot be created nor destroyed, it is a basic law of the universe and it applies to your body like all else. If you don't supply the ingredients (food), your body has to obtain it from somewhere or die - and so it gets the necessary ingredients by breaking down tissue - muscle, fat, organs. Even if you were to shoot up large doses of testosterone and then stop eating, you'd atrophy - maybe you'd atrophy slower, but you'd also die faster that way most likely.

 

[u_e_s_i]

A long SARM cycle was the main cause of the atrophy although I've also read that stress and caloric restriction can induce it. In my case, all three factors have been present. Whilst I'll be entering PCT properly (w. a SERM) next week, I'm curious as to whether or not, supposing that hypothetically the caloric deprivation was a notable factor, I should change my diet and/or return to a high body fat% or if the PCT will be enough.
I'm currently at 5-7% bf

 

[TheMovement]

A long SARM cycle was the main cause of the atrophy although I've also read that stress and caloric restriction can induce it. In my case, all three factors have been present. Whilst I'll be entering PCT properly (w. a SERM) next week, I'm curious as to whether or not, supposing that hypothetically the caloric deprivation was a notable factor, I should change my diet and/or return to a high body fat% or if the PCT will be enough.
I'm currently at 5-7% bf

Honestly I think you've overthought this. High levels of stress to the body induce negative side effects. This can range from loss of sleep, irritability, loss of motivation, appetite, performance, etc. Like you said several were present combined with a calorie deficit. Bottom line like it was mentioned you cant make something out of nothing. It just doesnt work that way.

I highly suggest tweaking your diet and you have to eat to grow. Im not sure what you consider a high bodyfat but if your currently 5-7% no offense you cant have much mass on your frame. Kinda a waste of resources and money if you wont dial in the easiest and most beneficial component....the diet MUST be on point. Screw tweaking the supplements, DIET and lifestyle first.