What the hell is the ultimate point in BULKING?
03-06-2003 04:45 PM
What the hell is the ultimate point in BULKING?
And no, I'm not a retard nor a newbie. I've actually BEEN bulking for over 6 months now and am not even close to being done. But here is my question thats been bugging me over some time now.
Everyones Ulimate point as bodybuilders is to have the most amount of mass/muscle, while having the least amount of bodyfat, correct? So why cant one just have a high protein diet, low fat and carb, until they reach that point, without having to "BULK" per se and eat ridiculous amounts of carbs and fat to get that guT they never wanted, only to waste time and have to cut it all down later.......wouldnt building LEAN muscle while being on a HIGH PROTEIN, LOW FAT diet be just as beneficial? I figure the time it takes to bulk, then cut it all back down again, it would take the same amount of time. Now, here is the other point to the question........What the hell is the point of building fat onto your body? Fat is not muscle, it never will turn into muscle? Youre cutting it all off your body after you reach that desired weight anyway??? What am I missing here? It just doesn't add up to me at all. Pack on Fat, Cut the fat, Pack on fat, Cut the fat....all while muscle growth remains the same? Someone please clarify where I'm mixed up here and where i'm wrong, thanks.
03-06-2003 04:59 PM
muscle growth generally does NOT remain the same, I think there's your sticking point... most people have a very hard time being strict enough (or having enough knowledge) of their body's reaction to foods to be able to "clean bulk" year after year... some people gain much more easily than others etc (endo, ecto, meso, blah blah)... so for most, the MOST muscle as fast as possible comes with massive caloric consumption and while the idea of course is to not gain fat, you generally can not gain an appreciable amount of muscle in X amount of time without increasing your daily caloric intake to the point of having a little leftover for fat storage... this can be minimized, you're right about that, but when you put on weight, you put on weight... muscle tissue seems to be the hardest to acquire and the easiest to lose. Hope that helps a little.
03-06-2003 05:10 PM
Thanks for the insight bro....I hear exactly what youre saying, and before I just took at as a normal thing....you gotta Bulk, you know. But when somebody asked me why I was eating so much and bulking to get "Chubby" I kind of didn't know what to reply to the person. I simply said that obtaining the most muscle and strength is done through "Bulking", and it is the most efficient way to gain the muscle and size one wants, as "Clean muscle gain" or "Clean bulking" would take much longer and wouldn't produce as much result, but I'm still questioning this myself......who knows.
03-06-2003 07:24 PM
The Axe Man Cometh!!
If you are getting "chubby" then you are probably eating too much or not eating clean enough. When I bulk I usually hit 12% bf before I stop and then I do maintenance for a while then I cut. There are some people who can stay lean while puting on muscle but I think for the majority it is easier to bulk up then trim up. Try it both ways if you can stay fairly lean while puting on muscle, I would say awesome and stick with it. Cheers
03-06-2003 10:58 PM
these guys posted some good info, but another thing is that, carbs and fats do actually help a lot in the building of muscle. carbs and fats provide energy for workouts, and give the body a more anabolic environment in which to produce muscle tissue. plus, u can alter u're hormone levels with carbs, making protein synthesis much more efficient. theres tons of reasons why bulking is more efficient to build muscle tissue, but its always good to quesiton things as opposed to just blindly following trends.
03-07-2003 01:33 AM
You're not supposed to get fat. You simply must take in more calories in order for muscle growth to occur. Ground ball Njserious.
03-07-2003 09:05 AM
I guess dont neglect cardio either, even if its just a walk in the morning. I found that bulking reasonably clean while neglecting light cardio really just made me a tub of water and lard.
03-07-2003 10:53 AM
Thanks for the great info guys.......The answers you guys threw at me were my original thoughts, but I just wanted to make sure and not follow trends blindy, like someone pointed out before
03-09-2003 04:51 PM
Ive also found that stepping up your workout intensity can help keep the fat down on a high calorie diet...try keeping it to 90secs inbetween sets and no longer than 2 minutes in between excercises. Youll be huffing like you just did some sprints by the end of your workout...
I really think that anyone can get the the state where they're bulking 'completely clean' - where your building mostly lean muscle and hardly any fat. But that takes a long time and a lot of dedication before you learn how your body reacts to different diets and training methods.
03-09-2003 05:00 PM
bingo,and if your so concerned about the added bf% try a bit of cardio to minimize the fat to muscle gain ratio.i still do 2 days of cardio manely HIIT. Originally posted by drfly these guys posted some good info, but another thing is that, carbs and fats do actually help a lot in the building of muscle. carbs and fats provide energy for workouts, and give the body a more anabolic environment in which to produce muscle tissue. plus, u can alter u're hormone levels with carbs, making protein synthesis much more efficient. theres tons of reasons why bulking is more efficient to build muscle tissue, but its always good to quesiton things as opposed to just blindly following trends.
03-09-2003 07:06 PM
Most of my fat gain from a bulk comes from my lack of eating clean. When I bulk, I usually just eat whatever. Yeah, its a ****ty habit and just makes my cutting more difficult in the long run. Next bulk, Im going to try a couple things to minimize fat gain. All in all, most people accept a little bit of fat gain for the decreased time it takes to put on muscle mass. Yeah, you could try to stay really lean and put on muscle, but it probably would be a very slow and discouraging process.
03-09-2003 09:23 PM
You would have to be very strict...better to learn how your body works over time and get big as fast as you can...big gains early on will fuel your motivation to become more disciplined later.
It will be a lot easier to think to myself "Id rather stay ripped and grow slower" when Im benching 350 than it was when I first started
03-09-2003 09:33 PM
will also be harder to grow at that point however, which is one of the reasons you have these guys with massive caloric intake with attempt to spur yet more growth on an already massive (at that point) physique, and so it seems, as an example, you'll have a ripped 220lber who is capable of weighing 250, but has an *extremely* hard time weighing a *lean* 250... eventually it becomes a tradeoff which is why most pro's gain so much off season... I suppose they are of the belief that they can punch on 50lbs offseason, diet it off and keep that little extra muscle margin from when they were already basically maxing out their lean ("artificlal"? ... ) musculature the year before
03-09-2003 09:34 PM
Sounds like someone I know. Originally posted by Biggin will also be harder to grow at that point however, which is one of the reasons you have these guys with massive caloric intake with attempt to spur yet more growth on an already massive (at that point) physique, and so it seems, as an example, you'll have a ripped 220lber who is capable of weighing 250, but has an *extremely* hard time weighing a *lean* 250... eventually it becomes a tradeoff which is why most pro's gain so much off season... I suppose they are of the belief that they can punch on 50lbs offseason, diet it off and keep that little extra muscle margin from when they were already basically maxing out their lean ("artificlal"? ... ) musculature the year before
03-09-2003 09:53 PM
yeah, "I've got a friend who..."... heheh
03-10-2003 06:04 PM
When I finally do get to the point of that ripped 220...(which I assume is around my natural genetic max)...that's where Im going to stay. No sense pummeling my body with all that stress trying to compete with someone who was born to be a ripped 240...
03-17-2003 12:33 PM
I used to subscribe to the theory that one should "bulk up" indiscriminantly in order to maximize muscle gains. But looking back, I now realize that this was simply my attempt to justify eating crap all the time. Whenever my contest season would end, I would throw discipline out the window and begin eating everything in sight, including junk food of all kinds. This never truly helped my quest to build muscle. I think that even then I knew deep inside that my idea of bulking was simply an excuse for eating junk and getting fat. I just had so much more fun eating the junk food that I didn't want to stop! That is not to say that you will not put some amount of fat on when you are on a gaining cycle. Obviously you must be in a calorie surplus to build muscle optimally. But your diet should be clean, and protein levels high. This will give you muscles a more optimized environment than eating Twinkies and ice cream. Also, if you do notice significant fat gains, I think you should back down on the calorie intake. Too much fat now means too much muscle lost later while cutting.
03-17-2003 08:31 PM
I totally agree...when I first started getting serious about getting bigger and stronger, I thought that any pound gained was a step in the right direction. In a sense, to the beginner, this is true. Currently at 210, Im a LOT stronger than I was last year at 225. I look and feel a lot better too.
I think that it does take a while to get a feel for what your body needs to maintain the optimum environment for growth though. Ive found that after 3-4 weeks of serious caloric intake/training, if I have a little excess fat on me, a 3 - 7 days of a high protien/lower carb diet helps strip a little fat down. Keeps your system guessing, too.
Exactly. This is a mistake I made too. Cutting is a lot harder, in my opinion, then bulking. You have to be so much more strict and work a lot harder to keep your gains. Trying to strip down an extra 20lbs of lard when you've never even tried to seriously cut is going to end up in a big loss of muscle and strength. Assuming you're going the natural route, that is. Which is the only way to go until you've got the proper experience with diet/training.
Too much fat now means too much muscle lost later while cutting.
Similar Forum Threads
By xmonsterv23x in forum Anabolics
Last Post: 04-27-2011, 08:15 PM
By tattoopierced1 in forum Bulking
Last Post: 08-04-2008, 05:00 PM
By Jcada in forum Weight Loss
Last Post: 03-22-2004, 05:40 PM