4 pack with love handles. Suggestions desperately needed (pics included)

[flarestar]

Long story short, Bulked in December-Jan with Super DMZ 2.0 then I went from 190lbs in March to now 165 while on a steep caloric deficit. From March to April I was doing Halodrol + 11-oxo then during pct I ran 12.5mg of Ostarine to prevent muscle loss. fastforward 6 weeks later and now i'm on s4 50mg (25mg twice a day) Since July 1st and also have been doing EC(Y) Stack. (25mg E / 200mg C) during the day then another serving in the evening along with 15mg Yohimbine pre-cardio (4-5hrs fasted) I do 40-45 minutes of steady-state cardio on an eliptical which for me is boring I would much rather run outdoors but i'm trying real hard to lose this last bit of fat from my love handle / mid-belly button area. OH and to add... I am doing Clenviscerate 2x (80mcg Clen) Sun - Wed. Then just Eviscerate Thurs - Sat. I was doing Ab Abliderated / clen before that. I've even tried one of those "Sweet Sweat" Waist Wraps during cardio while on Clenviscerate a bit crazy but yeah.. That's been going on for 3 weeks now

I am certain cortisol is the main culprit of my fat storage above my bellybutton also possibly low testosterone judging by the love handles. What would you guys suggest in this case? Seeing that i'm on S4, ECY, Clenviscerate, doing 40-45min cardio 3x/week. My calories are pretty low right now probably 1700-2000 calories. I keep thinking the solution would be to go on a possibly 500mg Test-C or P cycle and it would be my first "real" pinning cycle. This would also help me determine if TRT is something i should pursue. I'm 35 years old and have hypothyroidism and the highest my T levels ever tested at was 400, lowest was 192 (pre thyroid treatment)

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Maybe you should take a hormonal panel first to determine the cause of it. If your TSH is fine and you have low T, and considering TRT, you should first begin TRT(guided by your doctor) and as soon as you are normalised and TRT becomes a routine you can jump to pinning.

You dont want to start pinning and not recovering on PCT cause of -before cycle- low T and then wondering what went wrong, your PCT or your natural low T? and trying to find a doctor to prescribe TRT while your test is at its lowest cause of cycle shudown

Hope my writing is not confusing

 

[double s]

Maybe you should take a hormonal panel first to determine the cause of it. If your TSH is fine and you have low T, and considering TRT, you should first begin TRT(guided by your doctor) and as soon as you are normalised and TRT becomes a routine you can jump to pinning.

You dont want to start pinning and not recovering on PCT cause of -before cycle- low T and then wondering what went wrong, your PCT or your natural low T? and trying to find a doctor to prescribe TRT while your test is at its lowest cause of cycle shudown

Hope my writing is not confusing

Agreed. Has your DR suggest HRT/ TRT

 

[flarestar]

to be honest i haven't been to my endocrinologist since 2014 and have been self medicating my thyroid medication. I was first suggested TRT by a primary care phy who failed to realize my TSH levels were off. I was on androgel (crap) and it didn't even raise my levels much at all. I was doing 2 packets a day only to see a slight elevation in total T (something like 232 from 192) after going to the endo he told me to stay off androgel and started me on 75mcg of synthroid (t4) and the last time I had my levels tested it was above the 400 range which he was happy with. At the time I was 31yrs old so those levels to me were not sufficient but it was within their suggested range (400-1200 i believe) Looking at where the fat is located it seems cortisol might be the reason for the fat in the belly button area. As for the love handles I always read that it was associated with lower testosterone levels. I need to find someone who I know will prescribe me test (if needed) and have me at optimal range (700-1000) not just 400-500. I live in the North Dallas area, i will have to research before giving out money to docs who may be wasting my time. thanks for the advice guys

 

[AlexParty]

I'm gonna get blasted for this, but don't eat, fast for a few days, that may control appetite, but I'm an ectomorph, so that works for me to get things started. But chances are your hounding down on too many burgers, mickyDEEs and junk food. It's mostly diet dude.

Go on an ECA stack, nothing else out there is good, and don't let reps here who promote their own pills say their **** is good. On ECA you'll only start feeling appetite suppression after 1-2 weeks, then you should be good, take it in the morning, do cardio runs, and drink lots of water. Don't eat after 5pm. You'll slim down pretty fast, lose muscle, but if you want to go down the whole natural, healthy, macro/micro nutrient way, don't take my advice.

Ps. Focus on cardio

 

[flarestar]

My diet isn't the issue i've lost almost 30 lbs in 3-4 months while maintaining maybe 85% strength judging by my lifts. but you do did bring up being an ectomorph, i see myself as an endomorph so that may have a lot to do with it. I am currently doing EC 25mg E 200mg Caffeine 2x a day and 15mg Yohimbine pre-cardio (fasted) and you are right nothing works better than the good 'ol EC stack

I do cardio 3-4x a week now. This week is going to be 4x. 3 of those cardio sessions is 40-45 minutes steady state cardio while fasted and on yohimbine, caffeine, ephedrine. If i do 4 days then one of those days is a jog around the park (3 miles) to change things up.

 

[fame126]

Reduce xt has worked well for me in reducing a little fat stores in my midsection. It's a cortisol controller

 

[Distilled Water]

You need to get off all un needed supplemnts ASAP.

You have no idea what the problem is and just throw the kitchen sink at it, terrible idea. Get your diet right, eat consistently and clean. Not 1700-2000 cals. EAT THE EXACT SAME SH!T FOR 7 DAYS! No refeed, no cheats no anything. Then reasses with pictures and weight and adjust....still, no cheat or refeed. Actually diet for 30 days.

Get consistent with your cardio, no 3-4 days a week. Do it every day. Stop guessing and start working.

 

[JDybya]

30 pounds is a lot. Great work!

Have you been dieting that whole time?

Might need to let your body adjust fora bit. Slowly reverse diet to maintenance for a month or two. Come off the stims slowly...cut cardio a little...focus on heavy lifting. get your hormonal equilibrium back.

Then cut down the calories again and bump up cardio.

 

[cookdog]

Try a cyclical keto diet. It's working wonders for me. There's a good thread about it a little further down in this forum. I've shredded 15lbs in 2 months with no muscle loss, my abs are really popping out now.

 

[jathan_howe]

ECY stack
1 or 2 EvoMuse fat loss products (maybe Absolutely Abliderate or Abliderate AMMO and BRITE)
Caloric deficit
Lotsa cardio
Good diet
???
Profit

 

[Quest]

You look great IMO, less drugs, get hormone panel. Eat, work hard....

 

[fakeazzrock]

I'm far from the guy that understands every single compound in every single supplement. However, I've tried my fair share of OTC products and none seem to work like good ol' diet. You're doing awesome and have a target area now. I'd try getting rid of any fat burner, PH, SERM, etc. for 2-4 weeks at a minimum. Then I'd do the ECA/ECY (whichever you like) stack and probably a good fat burner of choice and do that without other sups. I think at some point, we put so much in and try so many things we lose track of what's working/worked and also our body is being sent in too many directions.

 

[delsolrob]

Cortisol is often the culprit of fat storage in the mid section.

You should checkout Invictus, the reviews have been pretty darn solid

 

[bighulksmash]

I agree with delsolrob . Invictus really thinned me out fast . No jitters , No anxiety , Behind the scenes IT really works and fast !
Also if your having a problem with hi EST , Virtus is the way to go . Great transdermal AI .

 

[HIT4ME]

If your TSH is normal, how did you determine you needed thyroid replacement therapy? It sounds like you are assuming a lot. Just an FYI, I just finished an 11-KT run and learned a lot in the week since I came off. When I jumped to 500 mg/day 11-KT from 250 mg, my fat loss completely stalled. Since coming off the 11-KT, I have been cruising again. It turns out that high cortisol interferes with thyroid function ...but too low and your T3 will become ineffective. Couple this with a long and intense dieting period ...and your T4 will convert to higher reverse T3 and make your T3 less effective. Are you feeling tired and sluggish?

You may want to take a short diet break, have a referred and reset. Also, if you are in a deficit, consistent cardio can help but more is not always better. Most people I see stalling on diets usually have high levels of exercise and they are just destroying themselves.

Don't just crush cortisol without bloods, especially if you are hypothyroidism. It can go too far and interfere with your thyroid.

Just to put it in perspective, on the 11-KT I had points where I took 100 - 200 mcg T3 and didn't feel a thing and didn't lose weight. Cortisol control has its place...but cortisol itself has uses too.

 

[flarestar]

Cortisol is often the culprit of fat storage in the mid section.

You should checkout Invictus, the reviews have been pretty darn solid

I definitely agree cortisol could very well be the culprit. People with hypothyroidism often have issues with their adrenal glands as well. I will defintely look into the reviews

 

[flarestar]

If your TSH is normal, how did you determine you needed thyroid replacement therapy? It sounds like you are assuming a lot. Just an FYI, I just finished an 11-KT run and learned a lot in the week since I came off. When I jumped to 500 mg/day 11-KT from 250 mg, my fat loss completely stalled. Since coming off the 11-KT, I have been cruising again. It turns out that high cortisol interferes with thyroid function ...but too low and your T3 will become ineffective. Couple this with a long and intense dieting period ...and your T4 will convert to higher reverse T3 and make your T3 less effective. Are you feeling tired and sluggish?

You may want to take a short diet break, have a referred and reset. Also, if you are in a deficit, consistent cardio can help but more is not always better. Most people I see stalling on diets usually have high levels of exercise and they are just destroying themselves.

Don't just crush cortisol without bloods, especially if you are hypothyroidism. It can go too far and interfere with your thyroid.

Just to put it in perspective, on the 11-KT I had points where I took 100 - 200 mcg T3 and didn't feel a thing and didn't lose weight. Cortisol control has its place...but cortisol itself has uses too.

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism through lab work and went to an endocrinologist for a year. TSH was never normal until I was put on synthroid but it had nasty side effects like hair loss. Hypothyroidism runs in my family too even among the males.

Funny that you mentioned that story about t3, for me when running something like Halodrol or Espistane back in the day I remember going up to 100mcg of t3 (before i was ever prescribed t3) and it was only after i was done running my cycle and in PCT that I (stupidly) continued running the t3 at 50mcg and my weight started to fly off like crazy. I must have lost 20-30lbs in a few weeks time. People were freaking out wondering how I was able to do that. I know I probably lost muscle mass but for the first time in years I was lean again and that was a victory in itself lol.

 

[ambulldog]

If i were you and i mean no disrespect. You need to get off everything. 2 fold. 1)Youre taking a lot of **** and honeztly i wouldnt even think you lifted weights. 2) its gotta be hormonal. You are carrying body fat like a woman. Its not your fault but it is your fault if you continue to do what you are doing without going to a good endo.

Id guess yout test is low, est and cortisol off the charts and god knows how your thyroid panel will look.

Again i mean no disrepect.. take this and others advice and seek medical care. Youll be much happier in the end.

 

[double s]

I agree/disagree somewhat with ambulldog

Yes you need to get off everything to bring your body back to homeostasis BUT I do think you work out, nice shoulder development and chest needs to grow but you definitely have a good foundation....

 

[ambulldog]

I agree/disagree somewhat with ambulldog

Yes you need to get off everything to bring your body back to homeostasis BUT I do think you work out, nice shoulder development and chest needs to grow but you definitely have a good foundation....

double s. I was not at all trying to be hyrtful to the guy. Just honest. If he were to strip all his bodyfat he would weigh nothing.

I like to help people out but i also believe in honesty or at least honestly in my opinion.

I just hope he goes and get things figured out. Because trying to correct what you dont know is wrong with more compounds isnt the answer

 

[mrgoomba]

Not going to read everyones comments as I assume this has been addressed but:

1) stop taking drugs. Not to be harsh, but you need to build a solid base before taking any type of enhancing drugs. You have minimal muscle mass and high bodyfat - you do not have a 4 pack. Also, if you decide to NOT take good advice and continue taking drugs, do better research. Taking osta on a pct is a terrible decision as osta itself is suppressed. You probably need a year for your hormones to rebalance

2) Get your diet under control. Your BF and lack of muscle is 100% related to your diet. Figure out your goal (gain muscle, lose some bf, try to recomp slowly) and figure out your macros. Track them. Do this for a year. You will be pleased with results. If you truly thing cortisol is your issue - try a ketogenic diet.

3) Get your training in check. Your lack of overall muscle mass tells me that you are training without a plan. Focus on the main 4 compounds (Deadlift, proper bench, squat heavy and deep, strict overhead press) and supplement accessory lifts around this.

4) Get realistic expectations. If I was to eyeball, I would say you are about 20-22% bf. To lose those love handles, you will need to be down to 10% bodyfat. Without a solid base of muscle, you can not just cut that fat as quick as possible... it will probably take you 6 months to lose that bodyfat properly. Once down to 10%, then add about 250 calories over your maintenance and start to pack on some muscle. In 2 years, I promise you will be pleased with the results. Yes, 2 years. Muscle building takes time. At this point, you might be in a position to PROPERLY experiment with enhancing drugs.

 

[mrgoomba]

I'm gonna get blasted for this, but don't eat, fast for a few days, that may control appetite, but I'm an ectomorph, so that works for me to get things started. But chances are your hounding down on too many burgers, mickyDEEs and junk food. It's mostly diet dude.

Go on an ECA stack, nothing else out there is good, and don't let reps here who promote their own pills say their **** is good. On ECA you'll only start feeling appetite suppression after 1-2 weeks, then you should be good, take it in the morning, do cardio runs, and drink lots of water. Don't eat after 5pm. You'll slim down pretty fast, lose muscle, but if you want to go down the whole natural, healthy, macro/micro nutrient way, don't take my advice.

Ps. Focus on cardio

I disagree with this comment to a certain extent. Cardio should not be the focus. Heavy lifting with compounds with supplemental cardio is ideal. OP has very very little muscle mass. The best way to burn calories is to increase your muscle mass. Eating after 5pm is also broscience.

 

[twistedfords]

Try a cyclical keto diet. It's working wonders for me. There's a good thread about it a little further down in this forum. I've shredded 15lbs in 2 months with no muscle loss, my abs are really popping out now.

Can you post a link to this plan?

 

[flarestar]

View attachment 141175

Ok there ya go an update which I forgot to post. This was a collage I made. The last one (sept) featured a better angle and.. um spray on "muscle oil" lol

 

[double s]

View attachment 141176View attachment 141175

Ok there ya go an update which I forgot to post. This was a collage I made. The last one (sept) featured a better angle and.. um spray on "muscle oil" lol

Phenomenal...in 6 months...so what is the total weight loss to date.....keep progressing, the handles will be coming off before you know it.

 

[flarestar]

thanks so much. My starting weight in March was around 190lbs and when the Sept pic was taken I was around 157-158lbs over 30lbs. I hope at some point I can look that lean at 170-175lbs

 

[hiimnotcool]

awesome progress. have you tried KSM-66 (ashwaghanda)? It's supposed to normalize hormones in the body. Will lower cortisol, estrogen and raise T levels to normal levels.

if you go to swansons it's pretty cheap. like 10 bucks a month for 500mgs a day.