CKD and Metformin for Carb-ups

mmorso

mmorso

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Has anyone every used Metformin while in ketosis. I just read an article on the subject that claims you can take 50g of carbs with Metformin during a pre workout meal without getting thrown out of ketosis.
 
GreekTheBrick

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In for the knowledge
 
Gutterpump

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I don't believe metformin will help with carb-ups because it is used for blocking carbs. You want to be able to absorb carbs for glycogen during carb ups. I don't think it'd be useful preworkout either because it will not help you to utilize those carbs, just blocks them

What you want is a GDA (glucose disposal agent) / nutrient partitioner like Glycobol / Slinsane.
 
GreekTheBrick

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So would it be good for cheat meals? Read the info and states that you dont go hypoglycemic as it doesnt raise insuline. What do you thing?
 
mmorso

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From what I've read, Metformin is a Rx grade GDA and if ideal for use during cheat meals....
 
Gutterpump

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It's not a GDA though, it doesn't aid in disposing glucose into glycogen stores.

What it does is a 1-2 punch at lowering blood sugar by blocking absorption in the gut and prevents the liver from producing glycogen.

Metformin also lowers testosterone.

It's not bodybuilder friendly.
 
mmorso

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This is a quote from the article I read... I'd post the link but I'm it'd be removed according to forum rules... In fact, I apologize if I'm breaking them posting this excerpt:

"Glucose disposal agents do not play a direct role in fat loss, but act as an awesome aid in a fat loss diet. Many have probably heard or used some of the OTC (over the counter) glucose disposal agents such as, vanadyl sulfate with chromium, and ALA. Yes, these are all pretty decent glucose disposal agents due to the fact that they mimic and support the effects of insulin in the body, but they are not the best. My personal favorite is Glucophage, or by the trade name Metformin.

This drug heightens the body's sensitivity to insulin, and is currently used to treat type 2 diabetes. For fat loss purposes Metformin is used in ketogenic diets to rapidly drop blood sugar to quickly induce ketosis. For a mixed ratio diet, Metformin would be used with carb meals insuring that the carbohydrates go to muscle tissue over fat, this is a great addition to a high sugar post workout meal.

Additionally, due to the fact that it controls insulin levels in the body, it also greatly reduces hunger in between meals. Metformin is very beneficial in that it heightens insulin sensitivity, which is very good due to the fact that most Americans are insulin insensitive. This over production of insulin which insulin insensitivity causes can lead to weight gain and also various other health problems. Now, the best way to use Metformin would be to take 2000-3000mg divided up with meals. On a moderate carb diet, you could split up the dose and take it only with your carb meals."

If you follow a CKD (cyclic ketogenic diet) type diet, the best way to use it would be with your weekend carb up, which would follow the same schedule as above. Metformin is not needed during the week, but if you like the appetite suppressing effects that it gives you, you can also use it during the week. Another thing you can do on a CKD is to have a small amount of fast acting carbs (around 40-50g) after your workout with Metformin. This will not cause you to drop out of ketosis due to the fact that the Metformin will quickly shuttle the carbohydrates into the muscle cells while still running on ketones.
 
Gutterpump

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Metformin is great for BLOCKING carbs and so yes it's great for insulin sensitivity and keeping blood sugar down.

Bodybuilders who do a CKD don't want to block carbs during their carb ups. Maybe during a cheat meal yes.

I've used real GDA's during carb ups and let me tell you, the pumps were insane. You want to be pumping your glycogen stores full, not blocking them.

With that being said, Metformin is ok during cheat meals if you don't mind diareah and lowered testosterone.
 
mmorso

mmorso

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Metformin is great for BLOCKING carbs and so yes it's great for insulin sensitivity and keeping blood sugar down.

Bodybuilders who do a CKD don't want to block carbs during their carb ups. Maybe during a cheat meal yes.

I've used real GDA's during carb ups and let me tell you, the pumps were insane. You want to be pumping your glycogen stores full, not blocking them.

With that being said, Metformin is ok during cheat meals if you don't mind diareah and lowered testosterone.
Which GDA's do you use? I've never taken any and want to check them out.
 
Gutterpump

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Which GDA's do you use? I've never taken any and want to check them out.
I've used NA-R-ALA, yellow gold, and glycobol (which is a combo of stuff).

I've heard good things about Slinsane though. A couple others have also been spoken about on this board that've caught my interest but I can't remember off the top of my head
 

jmero2

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I've used NA-R-ALA, yellow gold, and glycobol (which is a combo of stuff).

I've heard good things about Slinsane though. A couple others have also been spoken about on this board that've caught my interest but I can't remember off the top of my head
I've used Burn24 which I thought was ok. I get a better pump and vascularity with a combo of Follidrone 2.0 along with Jarrow formulas bitter melon extract, insane stack for glucose control fo me... I'm a diabetic but don't use metformin.
 
Gutterpump

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I've never tried bitter melon extract. Going to look into this
 
john.patterson

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Metformin would be counterproductive for CKD. The idea behind the carb-up is to refill muscle glycogen. Since the body has been deprived of carbs, the body will overcompensate and you will have the ability to store more muscle glycogen. You don't want to block the carbs you're eating during the carb-up, it would defeat the purpose. Keep your fats low and hit the carbs hard! Adding a GDA can be beneficial, but its not necessary.

Burn 24 (mentioned above) and Slinmax are my go-to GDA products if I do decide to use them during a carb up. I just started up a CKD diet this week so I will be implementing Slinmax on the weekends during my carb-ups. The first few days of keto suck!
 
Gutterpump

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GDA's aren't necessary but they definitely speed up the process in switching the body into ketosis the first 9 days can suck, so may as well cut that in half.

I find they're good when doing mini carb-ups around workouts too as they can help prevent you from getting kicked out of ketosis.
 
john.patterson

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GDA's aren't necessary but they definitely speed up the process in switching the body into ketosis the first 9 days can suck, so may as well cut that in half.

I find they're good when doing mini carb-ups around workouts too as they can help prevent you from getting kicked out of ketosis.
Do you dose a GDA after your carb-ups to help enter ketosis faster? That's something I might need to try out, like a pre-bed dose at the end of a carb up day or something. Not you got me thinking... lol.

And yeah I agree, using a GDA while doing TKD is definitely beneficial. Most CKD diets don't have mini carb ups around workouts though. But if you're doing TKD that would be very helpful
 
Gutterpump

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Do you dose a GDA after your carb-ups to help enter ketosis faster? That's something I might need to try out, like a pre-bed dose at the end of a carb up day or something. Not you got me thinking... lol.

And yeah I agree, using a GDA while doing TKD is definitely beneficial. Most CKD diets don't have mini carb ups around workouts though. But if you're doing TKD that would be very helpful
Yup I usually take GDA's with my carbs (during the carb up) and then again at night, but also daily the first week or two of a CKD
 
Gutterpump

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Once in a while I'll do a mini carb up during a CKD, but usually post workout. Mainly if it's after a double. Once in a while I'll hit the gym for an hour, take a short break with Bcaas then hit a crossfit workout / tabata, or some hot yoga for another hour.
 

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