Ketosis and prohormones

[mmorso]

Does anyone know if going into ketosis while taking a non-methylated prohormone or SARM is safe on the liver?

 

[booneman77]

why would it not be?

 

[mmorso]

Just curious... Keto being the body's response to what it perceives as starvation, changes the liver's normal metabolic function. I was just wondering if it was a bad idea to go keto when running a cycle due to potential stress you might be putting on the liver. Ideally, I want to go into keto on my next cut, running sup3r 11...

 

[booneman77]

Just curious... Keto being the body's response to what it perceives as starvation, changes the liver's normal metabolic function. I was just wondering if it was a bad idea to go keto when running a cycle due to potential stress you might be putting on the liver. Ideally, I want to go into keto on my next cut, running sup3r 11...

A) super 11 is very very mild.

B) no issues with keto except that it may not optimally build muscle due to lack of glycogen

C) any non methyl will only put slight stress on thee liver anyways. (And even less with something as mild as 11kt)

 

[Distilled Water]

A) super 11 is very very mild.

B) no issues with keto except that it may not optimally build muscle due to lack of glycogen

C) any non methyl will only put slight stress on thee liver anyways. (And even less with something as mild as 11kt)

D.) You'll probably look really dry and flat ;-)

 

[booneman77]

D.) You'll probably look really dry and flat ;-)

Haha dry would be good on a cut... Flat however will just make you feel small... And thus fuel the bulking

 

[JSTR808]

I'm my opinion, going into Ketosis will make the Sarms shine. Stay strong and good endurance even in carb depletion. ProHormones, I didn't like the two together.

 

[Capt Awesome]

I've been in ketosis for the past 9 months. Not on a cut but as my normal diet. Its been phenomenal for me. I ran super DMZ 2.0 (which is fairly harsh on the liver) while in ketosis with no issues besides unrelenting lethargy. Throw in some tudca and you're set. If ketosis interest you, I suggest reading The Art and Science of Low Carb Living and its companion book The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance Your experience may vary, but a non-calorie deficit standard keto diet has had the biggest impact on my physique and overall well being.

 

[Banez]

Just remember that in ketosis your protein intake is lower for a reason. If your protein exceeds a certain amount and you're low on carbs your body will convert that extra protein into glucose and will kick you out of ketosis

 

[Banez]

Great suggestions on those reads!

 

[Gutterpump]

Just curious... Keto being the body's response to what it perceives as starvation, changes the liver's normal metabolic function. I was just wondering if it was a bad idea to go keto when running a cycle due to potential stress you might be putting on the liver. Ideally, I want to go into keto on my next cut, running sup3r 11...

Ketosis improves the liver's functioning. Ketosis actually increases the amount of glutathione in the liver, which is a very very good thing. Glutathione is an extremely potent anti-oxidant.

 

[mmorso]

Ketosis improves the liver's functioning. Ketosis actually increases the amount of glutathione in the liver, which is a very very good thing. Glutathione is an extremely potent anti-oxidant.

I did not know that. Thanks for your input!

 

[Gutterpump]

The ketogenic diet increases mitochondrial glutathione levels

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2008.05460.x/full

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

subbed for info

 

[Capt Awesome]

There is definitely a trade off being on a ketogenic diet. For the most part you generally have to prepare all your own meals and eating out can be a little annoying at times especially when all the sides the restaurant has are carbs. The biggest issue people have with it is the first 2-4 weeks as you are adapting to the life without pasta, bread, rice etc. Strength will drop some during the first 2-4 weeks even with a calorie surplus because your body is changing over to ketones and fatty acids as its primary full source. You will also loose some water weight as you adapt that may make you think you are losing muscle, but you aren't its just water. I can't emphasis enough researching it more on your own and even checking out the books I mentioned in an earlier post. If you want to see if a keto diet is for you long term, I suggest using it on your next cut and then simply up your calories as you come off your cut. Any cut using the keto diet over 4 weeks and you'll more than likely be adapted. It is so much easier for me to get my calories in for the day now. Fat is 9 calories per gram where as carbs and protein are only 4. Its fairly easy to get 1000 calories in a sitting if you pick the right foods. So you don't feel like you are eating non-stop to the point you feel sick like a normal bulk. Anyway I could talk all night about this, but I'll stop here for now. Let me know if you have questions.

 

[mmorso]

There is definitely a trade off being on a ketogenic diet. For the most part you generally have to prepare all your own meals and eating out can be a little annoying at times especially when all the sides the restaurant has are carbs. The biggest issue people have with it is the first 2-4 weeks as you are adapting to the life without pasta, bread, rice etc. Strength will drop some during the first 2-4 weeks even with a calorie surplus because your body is changing over to ketones and fatty acids as its primary full source. You will also loose some water weight as you adapt that may make you think you are losing muscle, but you aren't its just water. I can't emphasis enough researching it more on your own and even checking out the books I mentioned in an earlier post. If you want to see if a keto diet is for you long term, I suggest using it on your next cut and then simply up your calories as you come off your cut. Any cut using the keto diet over 4 weeks and you'll more than likely be adapted. It is so much easier for me to get my calories in for the day now. Fat is 9 calories per gram where as carbs and protein are only 4. Its fairly easy to get 1000 calories in a sitting if you pick the right foods. So you don't feel like you are eating non-stop to the point you feel sick like a normal bulk. Anyway I could talk all night about this, but I'll stop here for now. Let me know if you have questions.

I'm a big fan of keto and have used it intermittently over the last year to drop close to 60 lbs. I'm currently doing a CKD on a cutting cycle, stacking some PH's to further help retain LBM. I know keto is generally muscle sparing, but the initial strength loss prior to becoming adapted always makes my gym performance suck... I get complacent with lifting lighter and end up loosing some LBM. What I need to learn is how to properly run a targeted ketogenic diet and how to transition into a clean bulk after cutting. I've been getting a little frustrated because I lose LBM while cutting and then gain fat when trying to regain my strength losses. I guess it all comes down to experimenting. What I've found out recently, is that I can consume higher amounts of protein without getting kicked out of keto... Like 1 gram per lb. Do you think it's possible to bulk while in ketosis? I've read that only the "genetically gifted" are able to... What's your opinion on?

 

[Capt Awesome]

I think definitely think its possible and I am far from genetically gifted, others may disagree however. I put on 11lbs in ketosis while taking a DMZ 2.0 I feel like I could have added more if the DMZ didn't make me feel like death all the time. Since then I've shifted my focus to being more performance based rather than adding mass and I've stopped taking PHs and most supplements in general. After an initial weight loss of what mostly seemed like body fat and water from running 3-7 miles 3-4 days a week, I've started gaining LBM just by upping my calories some at about a 1/2-1lbs a week without really trying to. That's not anything mind blowing or amazing, but the take home message is I'm still consistently gaining lean mass albeit slowly. This is all MY experience and yours may vary. For ME its a perfect match. I personally don't like re-feed days or carb back loading because your never really truly stay in ketosis the whole time. It's more of a roller coaster ride in and out of ketosis, for me at least. That's why I recommended simply upping your total calories coming out of a keto cut as you go into your next bulk. Oh as a side note the research on protein consumption while in ketosis suggest exactly what you have already found out. Up to a gram per pound is very doable without knocking yourself out of ketosis.

 

[Gutterpump]

I personally think a CKD is the best way to recomp.

 

[mmorso]

I personally think a CKD is the best way to recomp.

^agreed... Ya gotta make insulin, one of the most anabolic hormones in the body, your b1tch.

 

[Capt Awesome]

A standard keto diet may not be 100 percent optimal for building mass, but its definitely not a total hindrance either. As I stated earlier mass is not my primary goal anymore, its more like a welcome by-product. I chose to stay to not do re-feeds for other reasons. Bottom line is ketogenic diets are awesome whatever form of it you use. Glad others using it.