Keto diet need an advice please

aditootie

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That's my 2nd time keto attempt. I've been on this diet for like 8 weeks but 1 week of holiday definitely knocked my out of ketosis. This time I want to avoid making any mistakes that's why I would like to kindly ask you for an advice. My goal is a fat loss. I follow PHAT training program by Layne Norton. My BF is arround 17% im only 177cm tall and my weight is 70kg. I do 2-3 times cardio weekly (running). My diet includes whole eggs, bacon, pancetta, chicken , steaks, lamb, tuna, salmon, olive, coconut, mct (oils), mayonnaise,avocado, cheese and green vegetables like broccolli, spinach, kale, asparagus etc. I track my calories/macros using FitnessPal. I try to eat 500cals below my maintenance and my macros are (were before the holiday) 75% fat/20% prot/ 5% carbs. I use supplements like orange triad, ergonine, alphamine, high volumre, lipomorph and i'm about to start Exotherm. I gave up drinking protein powders like a month ago because i've read that they can knock you out of ketosis.
My question is what shall i eat post workout? Tried to find an answer but unfortunately couldn't. Could You help me out please?
Thanks,
 
DirtyWilly

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Thanks Diesel, really interesting info.

As for the keto diet, I've struggled with the same issues. I really think there need to be more studies on long term keto, because I don't experience any of the typical symptoms anymore. Bad breath, craving dreams, fogginess, low energy, all gone and have been gone for a long time. If anything I experience the opposite of all those. My blood sugar also continues to rise (eating near zero carbs and low protein) which goes against everything sane! Research has just starting coming out saying this is normal and healthy? There's mentions of different phases of insulin secretion and how your body over time has a harder time removing blood glucose.

I will say this, while I have noticed exceptional weight-loss on keto, it only seems to work to a point. Maybe as your body adapts and those symptoms go away, so does the great weight-loss? That's not to say being fully keto adapted isn't healthy, I tend to think it is. One magic number that's a predictor for overall health is your V02 max. Some people, no matter how hard they train, just can't raise this number. While training on keto my V02 skyrockets and continues to go up like there's no limit. Could be I'm just a good responder, but I really think the keto is key. Compared to when I was overweight and out of shape, my blood pressure is now low, my resting heart rate is athlete low, and palpitations I was starting to get have gone away. These things could just be from being healthier, but again I think the keto is a huge part of the formula.

Anyways, to keep this from trailing on; after that 3-6 month mark on keto I had to start carb-load cycling on the weekends to get results. It seems to help a lot, but it's also very easy to overdo. You might want to consider careful carb cycling. In my experience you won't get as much of an aerobic benefit as being fully keto adapted, but it seems to help if you're not responding to weight-loss as well. One thing I noticed for you is while your diet above is pretty damn on target, there are new studies saying to avoid fats, even on keto, with a high ratio of polyunsaturated fats for fat loss. They haven't been deemed unhealthy per se, but researching is pointing to polyunsaturated fats like soybean oil seems to trigger fat gain. Mayo for example, is very heavy on soybean so you might want to reconsider some of the fats you're taking and move towards foods with more saturated and monounsaturated fats. They're not sure which is better, right now the recommendation is for foods with 50/50 mix like butter as an example.

Wish I had all the answers, I've been stuck at my current weight too long. Introduced HIIT into my workouts and the weight seems to be falling again. Was nearly impossible to hold onto the strength gains I made once I started keto, and once I started losing weight. The carb cycling helped a bit. Hope that helps.
 

aditootie

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Thank You guys for your interesting and helpful replies. Another thing to ask is how much protein shall I eat at one sitting so it won't turns into glucose? If I'll stick with drinking whey isolate shake post work out (25-30g prots I guess) and my daily protein requirement while being on keto is arround 126g that will leave 95g proteins and 160-170g of fat to be used for the rest of my day (looks harsh :)). Do I have to spread them out into 2 or 3 meals?
 
DieselNY

DieselNY

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For most people once they are adapted all the negative effects are gone. Me personally I never have any negative effects even when not adapted, my body just respods so well to low/no carbs.

Correct, the diet like any other will stall at some point, you can only do it so long. Many people do it forever but they are not looking to drop fat they just like that WOE (way of eating).

I am so lean that I can't do it any more and have to introduce other methods to continue my fat loss further. One trick I do is after I stop keto I go right into low/moderate carbs, LOW fat (mostly fish oil and coconut oil) and high protein and my fat loss continues.

Nowadays I do Intermittent Fasting (IF), sometimes while doing keto and sometimes will doing low carbs (not zero but like 150gms or less) which is what I do now. IF is great for so many reasons.
 
DirtyWilly

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I had the exact same dilemma aditootie, how much protein is OK on keto? The answer is, no one knows. Whey protein spikes insulin levels very high, but afterwards there's an even bigger spike of glucagon. So in theory taking whey throughout the day will produce insulin spikes, but it should shuttle just the protein to the muscle and no fat storage will take place. As long as your in keto... Does this mean it'll break keto? Probably not, a lot will depend on how much glucose is stored in your liver. If the liver is depleted, glucagon won't be able to raise blood sugar and your body will stay in ketosis. There's a lot to it, and even more we probably don't fully understand, so doing my best to simplify one of the most complex systems in the human body.

As for gluconeogenosis, creating sugar from excess protein, again not sure. Most people seem safe around their lean body mass in lbs, in grams of protein per day. If you weigh 154lbs, and you have 17% body fat, that puts you around 128lbs of lean mass. Try to get at least 130g of protein a day. It's not perfect, it's the best answer I know of. Me personally, I noticed weight-loss was getting hard doing over 180g of protein and I'm close to that in lean mass. While I was still in keto, most of the excess protein was almost definitely being burned in my cardio. Even though I was pretty strict and not a single carb touched my lips for months, I never felt low on energy or close to it. Also never felt starved, protein curbs appetite well.

I did find however, at a time I was gaining incredible strength, for seemingly no reason (age 30-35), also started balding, I could easily handle higher and higher amounts of protein per sitting. Up to 40g without a problem and still lean out. I can't do that anymore no matter how intense I lift now.

I agree with DieselNY, the IF does seem to have some hidden magic in it. Especially the fasted cardio.
 
Quads_of_Stee

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if you are worried about protein powder kicking you out of keto, add some fats/oils to it. This will blunt the insulinogenic response a bit
 

aditootie

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Thanks for the replies guys, big up. I think i'll stick with whey isolate protein powder (below 1g carb per portion) mixed with coconut/mct oil (like 15g) and water post workout. Ok, then how long shall I wait with my proper keto meal?
 
DieselNY

DieselNY

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Thanks for the replies guys, big up. I think i'll stick with whey isolate protein powder (below 1g carb per portion) mixed with coconut/mct oil (like 15g) and water post workout. Ok, then how long shall I wait with my proper keto meal?
You really want to avoid fat post workout. If you are lacking in your fat grams for the day just add the coconut oil to your next meal after your post workout shake. I usually work out at 830am then 10am is my whey in water shake. Then 12 noon a solid meal.
 

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