My friend who is 300+ lbs and 5'8"

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    My friend who is 300+ lbs and 5'8"


    I need to help this guy out, but I was looking for either a calculator or someone that knows what I should start him off with calories per day.

    His main goal obv. is to lose weight.
    I know my maintenance, cutting, and gaining calories through trial and error and constantly staying on top of it.

    But for someone starting out how do I help? thanks.

    Also this dude is super strict with what he eats thats why I want to use what he eats since some of it's good, but ill work out the cals with ratios of his macros and all.

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    1 - Calc TDEE (Google search)
    2 - Subtract 100 calories from that after 1-2 weeks of those calories assuming he is not loosing ANY weight and progress pictures/measurements are not improving.
    3 - Add Cardio. Could start will LISS a couple times a week.
    4 - HIIT training 2-3 times a week 15-20 min after weight training after he has lost enough weight to not kill himself. To many trainers start very big guys on HIIT and it can be very detrimental to weight training progression.
    4 - Lastly and only when the above 3 have been done multiple times through, he can add in a thermo like Dexaprine. Or if he is too stim sensative add TT-33.

    My recomendations are only those I have done with multiple clients. Just tell him to keep it healthy until he has "earned" those cheats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by veaderko View Post
    1 - Calc TDEE (Google search)
    2 - Subtract 100 calories from that after 1-2 weeks of those calories assuming he is not loosing ANY weight and progress pictures/measurements are not improving.
    3 - Add Cardio. Could start will LISS a couple times a week.
    4 - HIIT training 2-3 times a week 15-20 min after weight training after he has lost enough weight to not kill himself. To many trainers start very big guys on HIIT and it can be very detrimental to weight training progression.
    4 - Lastly and only when the above 3 have been done multiple times through, he can add in a thermo like Dexaprine. Or if he is too stim sensative add TT-33.

    My recomendations are only those I have done with multiple clients. Just tell him to keep it healthy until he has "earned" those cheats.
    I see what you mean, yea I need to accomplish a good amount with Diet first before moving to any thing to cardio heavy I have him resistance training now.
    I used a Calculator for what his maintenance level of calories are, then i took away 10% is that taking to much away???
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    I would just try him at his maintenance first. A lot of people will make some good progress at maintenance as its is a simple calculation and no actual fact on how his body will react.

    I mean you could have him doing a keto diet at maintenance and he would probably loose a lot of fat quick. But I dont recommend that type of diet for first time dieters and for most unless they are doing a competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by veaderko View Post
    I would just try him at his maintenance first. A lot of people will make some good progress at maintenance as its is a simple calculation and no actual fact on how his body will react.

    I mean you could have him doing a keto diet at maintenance and he would probably loose a lot of fat quick. But I dont recommend that type of diet for first time dieters and for most unless they are doing a competition.
    dude your really helping me out, thanks man! I will try that at first so I am not so restrictive.
    His diet consists of some weird stuff, he is OCD. so like brocolli he will only eat the tips or the dark green parts and he really eats zero meat. But will eat eggs.
    he was able to write down what he will eat. He only eats:

    green giant corn
    mashed potatoes
    tips of broccoli
    pasta cookedfor 45 minutes with about a stick of butter and salt
    fried shirmp
    scrambled eggs
    bacon
    home fries
    toast
    waffles
    pancakes
    milk
    ice cream
    chicken nuggets only fast food (*LOL) he's picky
    French fries
    Vanilla yogurt.

    this is hard man..... he wont touch anything else.......
    got him to try a protein shake tho, he loved it.
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    If its all he eats, it's all he eats. I'd even cut out the starches and pasta most of the time unless he just can't make his caloric requirements without them (hating your diet is no way to go through life). Honestly, this abridged list of foods is probably more variety than I eat:
    Quote Originally Posted by themayor View Post
    tips of broccoli
    fried shirmp
    scrambled eggs
    bacon
    milk
    chicken nuggets
    Vanilla yogurt
    Throw in a couple protein shakes, and it's kind of decent. There's plenty of successful bodybuilders that are "vegetarian" and just eat fktons of eggs and milk.

    Another idea to look into would be a protein-sparing modified fast (PSMF) one day a week. I do it with low carb protein powder and water, hitting ~250g+ protein for the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisL View Post
    If its all he eats, it's all he eats. I'd even cut out the starches and pasta most of the time unless he just can't make his caloric requirements without them (hating your diet is no way to go through life). Honestly, this abridged list of foods is probably more variety than I eat:

    Throw in a couple protein shakes, and it's kind of decent. There's plenty of successful bodybuilders that are "vegetarian" and just eat fktons of eggs and milk.

    Another idea to look into would be a protein-sparing modified fast (PSMF) one day a week. I do it with low carb protein powder and water, hitting ~250g+ protein for the day.
    I am trying to put together in my head just a thought, something like his day could look like this:

    (When you wake up)
    Morning - 6 scrambled eggs - 42g Protein
    - 4 Bacon Slices - 7g Protein

    - Total Pro. : 49g
    - Total cals : 714

    2 hours or so later (try to do before 2:00PM not after)
    - 1 cup Penne or Spaghetti
    - Butter (2 tbsp)
    - Fried Shrimp (About 12) - 27g protein

    - Total Pro : 27g
    - Total Cals : 750

    2 hours or so later
    - Muscle Pharm Cookies and Cream (2 Scoops) -50g Protein
    - Milk (1 Cup) 7g Protein

    - Total Pro : 57g
    - Total cals : 426

    2 hours or so later
    - Vanilla Yogurt (1 container 113g)(Stick with regular) Usual container size. -4g Protein
    - 2 Slices White toast

    - Total Pro : 4g
    - Total cals : 238

    After Working out in the gym
    - Muscle Pharm Cookies and Cream (2 Scoops) -50g Protein
    - Milk (1 Cup) 7g Protein

    - Total Pro : 57g
    - Total cals : 426

    - TOTAL PROTEIN : 194g
    - TOTAL CALORIES: 2554


    The spacing is just to make it easier on his stomach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by themayor View Post
    dude your really helping me out, thanks man! I will try that at first so I am not so restrictive.
    His diet consists of some weird stuff, he is OCD. so like brocolli he will only eat the tips or the dark green parts and he really eats zero meat. But will eat eggs.
    he was able to write down what he will eat. He only eats:

    green giant corn
    mashed potatoes
    tips of broccoli
    pasta cookedfor 45 minutes with about a stick of butter and salt
    fried shirmp
    scrambled eggs
    bacon
    home fries
    toast
    waffles
    pancakes
    milk
    ice cream
    chicken nuggets only fast food (*LOL) he's picky
    French fries
    Vanilla yogurt.

    this is hard man..... he wont touch anything else.......
    got him to try a protein shake tho, he loved it.
    His diet is whack..!

    Corn - is a starch
    Mashed Potatoes - are a starch
    pasta - is a stach
    home fries - are a starch
    toast - is a starck
    waffles - are a starch
    pancakes - are a starch
    ice cream - is loaded w/ sugar
    French fries - are a starch
    Vanilla yogurt - is usually loaded with sugar

    He's basically a carb junkie and is addicted to sugar.

    I'd recommend before you cut calories you replace all of his starches and sugars with better choices.

    Examples of good carbs to replace bad ones:

    Sweet potatoes, oats, flax, quinoa, brown rice

    Once he gets on low glycemic carbs his blood sugar will normalize and he won't get high spikes
    in sugar. His sugar is probably going sky high after he eats a meal, then he crashes and he's
    probably super hungry again and does it all over again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vujade View Post
    His diet is whack..!

    Corn - is a starch
    Mashed Potatoes - are a starch
    pasta - is a stach
    home fries - are a starch
    toast - is a starck
    waffles - are a starch
    pancakes - are a starch
    ice cream - is loaded w/ sugar
    French fries - are a starch
    Vanilla yogurt - is usually loaded with sugar

    He's basically a carb junkie and is addicted to sugar.

    I'd recommend before you cut calories you replace all of his starches and sugars with better choices.

    Examples of good carbs to replace bad ones:

    Sweet potatoes, oats, flax, quinoa, brown rice

    Once he gets on low glycemic carbs his blood sugar will normalize and he won't get high spikes
    in sugar. His sugar is probably going sky high after he eats a meal, then he crashes and he's
    probably super hungry again and does it all over again.
    I know, it's almost impossible but he needs a complete insulin reset.... It's tough, cause he won't try anything new. He will only eat these foods. So I am trying my best. But I completely agree with you about the starches. Thanks for commenting, it's really tough and I want to help him.
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    No worries. I used to eat a lot of sugar and carbs years ago but had to relearn how to eat.

    If I still ate that way, I'd be eating pizza, ice cream, chocolate candy bars and soda everyday

    Instead I eat eggs, chicken, cheese, nuts, milk, yogurt , salad and protein shakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by vujade View Post
    No worries. I used to eat a lot of sugar and carbs years ago but had to relearn how to eat.

    If I still ate that way, I'd be eating pizza, ice cream, chocolate candy bars and soda everyday

    Instead I eat eggs, chicken, cheese, nuts, milk, yogurt , salad and protein shakes
    I guess it comes down to, how bad does he want it? I mean he is in danger when it comes to health.
    so we will have to see, when I start introducing new things into diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by themayor View Post
    I guess it comes down to, how bad does he want it? I mean he is in danger when it comes to health. so we will have to see, when I start introducing new things into diet.
    That's it exactly. If your not wiling to make sacrifices then your not going to achieve your goals.

    People that don't want to change their lifestyle usually go get gastric bypass surgery and
    end up gaining weight even with a. New smaller stomach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vujade View Post
    That's it exactly. If your not wiling to make sacrifices then your not going to achieve your goals.

    People that don't want to change their lifestyle usually go get gastric bypass surgery and
    end up gaining weight even with a. New smaller stomach.
    Yea, I gave him the low down last night, he is going to try brown rice, and he is giving up all the other carbs and starches.
    lol
    It was a shock to him, but he did eventually say he wants change real bad. so just hope this can help him.
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    Sounds like he's gonna need to suck it up and change what he eats if he wants it bad enough, I used to eat like that when I was a tub same height but only 250, then went to Iraq and wanted that promotion so I changed how I ate and started working out and grew to love it.

    Best of luck to your boy and he's lucky to have a friend that's willing to help
    The Swole Stoner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Sounds like he's gonna need to suck it up and change what he eats if he wants it bad enough, I used to eat like that when I was a tub same height but only 250, then went to Iraq and wanted that promotion so I changed how I ate and started working out and grew to love it.

    Best of luck to your boy and he's lucky to have a friend that's willing to help
    Thanks man, it's good to hear about people changing their lifestyle, gives me hope for him. I know it's tough!
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    Quote Originally Posted by themayor View Post
    Thanks man, it's good to hear about people changing their lifestyle, gives me hope for him. I know it's tough!
    I ballooned up to 235 at 5' 7" after a divorce, a job loss and a few other set backs.
    Then at 43 I decided enough was enough and in ten months went from 235 to 165.
    I've been holding steady at 165 for 8 months now.

    Now I'm about to start a 12 week transformation. My plan is to go from 165 @
    15% bf with a 32" waist And shredding up to 10% bf with a 30" waist
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    Quote Originally Posted by vujade View Post
    I ballooned up to 235 at 5' 7" after a divorce, a job loss and a few other set backs.
    Then at 43 I decided enough was enough and in ten months went from 235 to 165.
    I've been holding steady at 165 for 8 months now.

    Now I'm about to start a 12 week transformation. My plan is to go from 165 @
    15% bf with a 32" waist And shredding up to 10% bf with a 30" waist
    Your doing great man.

    I am 6'-1" and I weighed in at 260. In 9 months went to 185. Now i'm like 207 but lean muscle it's a great feeling just being lean, but the muscle is really fun!
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    Quote Originally Posted by themayor View Post
    Your doing great man. I am 6'-1" and I weighed in at 260. In 9 months went to 185. Now i'm like 207 but lean muscle it's a great feeling just being lean, but the muscle is really fun!
    That's great bro. You lost 5 more pounds then me in one less month then me,.!
    I'm impressed.

    Definitely feels good to start getting. Lean. I'm loving the vascularity in my arms.
    And I'm looking forward to seeing my abs
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    Quote Originally Posted by vujade View Post
    That's great bro. You lost 5 more pounds then me in one less month then me,.!
    I'm impressed.

    Definitely feels good to start getting. Lean. I'm loving the vascularity in my arms.
    And I'm looking forward to seeing my abs
    Yea, when you start seeing abs you start to believe in impossible things, like you and i have done LOL

    well i went about it by being stupid and listening to a diet book, but it did work. FAD diets can work, but not always the best. But i only ate, veggies cooked in water or raw for 4 months in the beginning, lost so much weight on that alone, then I began to research more and more about the science behind everything, then I was like ohhhhhh I can still eat meat. LOL
    But i def. reset my insulin doing that 4 month only veggies like kale and onions and mushrooms LOL makes me laugh remembering all the bro science i had.

    It was rough, but i was ready to do anything to lose the weight at the time.

    now i understand calories!
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    I can feel for your friend. Over the 10 years after I graduated from college I gained over 100 pounds and was probably about 290 pounds at my max. I've taken my time and lost about 45 pounds in the past 18 months, which is slow, but I have gained an immense amount of health and strength because I'm not focused on just losing weight - but on being healthy and if it takes me 3-4 years I am OK with that.

    Throughout my life, I ALWAYS thought I hated vegetables. The fact is, while I would never tell her this, my mom was a really, really horrendous cook. She murders everything and makes it inedible. Because of this, I stuck to lots of poor choices. I'm still not a "veggie" person, but I eat baby spinach, broccoli, asparagus, green beans, and probably some others I forgot about.

    I'm still a picky eater, and the poor choices always seem so easy and tasty.

    One of the things I've done lately is to adopt a simple approach that allows me to be "off" almost every day at some point. I eat chicken and egg whites with 1 whole egg in the morning, broccoli and chicken about 3 hours later, spinach and chicken 3 hours after that and 2 plain Greek yogurts with splenda after that. My final meal at night is just a normal dinner with my gf. Sometimes it's another chicken meal, sometimes it's a hamburger, sometimes it's Chinese, whatever. I try to make that last meal a chicken or other healthy meal at least 5 nights a week, and ideally something moderate the other 2 nights, limiting a really bad meal to 1 night/week or less.

    There isn't a lot of variety there, but it works and is easy and requires very little and leaves plenty of room for flexibility.

    I am not perfect by any means, and it could be better, but I'm also picky and it works for me.

    Also, you have stumbled across some good points for change. Anthony Robbins (laugh all you like) makes some good points about changing people.

    It is not important HOW you will do it, but it is important WHY you will do it. If your friend has a strong enough reason to do something, he will find a way. You should spend some time helping him solidify the WHY of what he is doing. What does he want? Does he like not being able to climb a flight of stairs? Does he like not fitting in the movie theater seats? Ask him questions along those lines to really show him how much pain his current habits are causing him. Obviously you are doing this in a caring way, not a mean way.

    What will happen if he does not change? To me this is always something people miss with change - they don't think about what will happen if they DON'T change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    I can feel for your friend. Over the 10 years after I graduated from college I gained over 100 pounds and was probably about 290 pounds at my max. I've taken my time and lost about 45 pounds in the past 18 months, which is slow, but I have gained an immense amount of health and strength because I'm not focused on just losing weight - but on being healthy and if it takes me 3-4 years I am OK with that.

    Throughout my life, I ALWAYS thought I hated vegetables. The fact is, while I would never tell her this, my mom was a really, really horrendous cook. She murders everything and makes it inedible. Because of this, I stuck to lots of poor choices. I'm still not a "veggie" person, but I eat baby spinach, broccoli, asparagus, green beans, and probably some others I forgot about.

    I'm still a picky eater, and the poor choices always seem so easy and tasty.

    One of the things I've done lately is to adopt a simple approach that allows me to be "off" almost every day at some point. I eat chicken and egg whites with 1 whole egg in the morning, broccoli and chicken about 3 hours later, spinach and chicken 3 hours after that and 2 plain Greek yogurts with splenda after that. My final meal at night is just a normal dinner with my gf. Sometimes it's another chicken meal, sometimes it's a hamburger, sometimes it's Chinese, whatever. I try to make that last meal a chicken or other healthy meal at least 5 nights a week, and ideally something moderate the other 2 nights, limiting a really bad meal to 1 night/week or less.

    There isn't a lot of variety there, but it works and is easy and requires very little and leaves plenty of room for flexibility.

    I am not perfect by any means, and it could be better, but I'm also picky and it works for me.

    Also, you have stumbled across some good points for change. Anthony Robbins (laugh all you like) makes some good points about changing people.

    It is not important HOW you will do it, but it is important WHY you will do it. If your friend has a strong enough reason to do something, he will find a way. You should spend some time helping him solidify the WHY of what he is doing. What does he want? Does he like not being able to climb a flight of stairs? Does he like not fitting in the movie theater seats? Ask him questions along those lines to really show him how much pain his current habits are causing him. Obviously you are doing this in a caring way, not a mean way.

    What will happen if he does not change? To me this is always something people miss with change - they don't think about what will happen if they DON'T change.
    Actually your 100 percent on with the topic of discussion I have been having with him lately. From theme parks to wearing a jacket in the dead summer heat, he shows me all the complications he has with his size. I would go nuts if I couldn't fit on my favorite roller coaster.

    His motivation is more then I thought, he knows the risk his health is in, and understands WHY he needs to change for the better, and he isn't impatient he actually told me. "It took me 4 years to get like this, so if it takes 4 to get back to normal then I would be fine with that."

    What he doesn't understand is we will make him even stronger then that. He is doing great has lost 12-15lbs so far.

    Thanks for your words. Encouraging to all who read I think!
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    12-15 pounds already is tremendous progress. It is also something different when you are lifting weights and you may not be losing weight but you are getting stronger. I was talking to a friend today about this. I weigh 242 pounds right now and most people would look at me and think I'm a fat ass. But I can deadlift over 400 pounds and do 2 pull ups. 2 pull ups isn't "in shape" but I know a lot of people who would think they are in better shape than me that wouldn't have the strength to do 1 pull up. Someday I hope to be able to do more than 20-30 pull ups or more. I may be fat still, but I'm stronger than I was, and in better shape than anyone expects. It is almost like having the ****box car with the V8 powerplant hidden under the hood - everyone thinks it is slow and a beater and can't do anything, but they have no idea. I can move furniture, go up stairs, run, you name it, without getting winded like I used to, extra weight or not. That is what is really important to me. The looks are nice, but secondary.

    To me, it's funny too. I always thought that the things like not being able to wear normal clothes, or not fitting in a chair, or whatever would be more immediate and more painful and cause the change. I guess being a little older, the pain was easily buried and not as prevalent as if I was in school being made fun of by other kids - but I started to change when I saw that my grandmother could no longer walk because of her bad knees. Then it occurred to me that the doctors would not operate on her, not because she was 85, but because she was so out of shape and wouldn't recover. Then it occurred to me that my dad is 20 years younger and losing his ability to walk because of bad knees. Then I realized, they are both doing this to themselves. My grandmother has very little chance of turning it around (although maybe not totally impossible), my dad still has a chance but it will be hard, and I am on that same path - but it is a lot easier to change now then later. This changed my thinking from "drop 100 pounds in the next 6 months" to realizing that most people gain 5 pounds/year and over 5-10 years they wake up one day and they are 50 pounds heavier. If I changed that to losing 5-10 pounds/year, I'd wake up at 44 and weigh 100 pounds less than I do now. That would be a simple change for me.

    During this process I have also realized that some people have different "mental" proclivities. I would rather bust my ass, work harder than anyone thinks is possible, and collapse in 10-15 minutes knowing I kicked my own butt, while some other people would rather workout for an hour, with a slightly lesser intensity and more volume. If I suddenly tried to workout for hours on end, I would hate it. If I lowered my intensity I would feel unchallenged. If I did 20 reps on everything, I would hate the pain that causes. Others who like high reps probably would hate the drop sets and pain caused by my way of training. I hate running, others may hate weights and love running.

    The same thing applies for diet - I may eat 4-5 times/day and others may find that they naturally do an intermittent fast every day.

    I think noticing these tenancies is important - it can help you to make the smallest adjustments possible that will get results. If someone normally eats 2 meals a day, going to an intermittent fasting setup might be almost unnoticeable - while going to 6 meals a day will seem like a big change and a chore. I think noticing people's tendencies and adjusting the small stuff can make the change easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    12-15 pounds already is tremendous progress. It is also something different when you are lifting weights and you may not be losing weight but you are getting stronger. I was talking to a friend today about this. I weigh 242 pounds right now and most people would look at me and think I'm a fat ass. But I can deadlift over 400 pounds and do 2 pull ups. 2 pull ups isn't "in shape" but I know a lot of people who would think they are in better shape than me that wouldn't have the strength to do 1 pull up. Someday I hope to be able to do more than 20-30 pull ups or more. I may be fat still, but I'm stronger than I was, and in better shape than anyone expects. It is almost like having the ****box car with the V8 powerplant hidden under the hood - everyone thinks it is slow and a beater and can't do anything, but they have no idea. I can move furniture, go up stairs, run, you name it, without getting winded like I used to, extra weight or not. That is what is really important to me. The looks are nice, but secondary.

    To me, it's funny too. I always thought that the things like not being able to wear normal clothes, or not fitting in a chair, or whatever would be more immediate and more painful and cause the change. I guess being a little older, the pain was easily buried and not as prevalent as if I was in school being made fun of by other kids - but I started to change when I saw that my grandmother could no longer walk because of her bad knees. Then it occurred to me that the doctors would not operate on her, not because she was 85, but because she was so out of shape and wouldn't recover. Then it occurred to me that my dad is 20 years younger and losing his ability to walk because of bad knees. Then I realized, they are both doing this to themselves. My grandmother has very little chance of turning it around (although maybe not totally impossible), my dad still has a chance but it will be hard, and I am on that same path - but it is a lot easier to change now then later. This changed my thinking from "drop 100 pounds in the next 6 months" to realizing that most people gain 5 pounds/year and over 5-10 years they wake up one day and they are 50 pounds heavier. If I changed that to losing 5-10 pounds/year, I'd wake up at 44 and weigh 100 pounds less than I do now. That would be a simple change for me.

    During this process I have also realized that some people have different "mental" proclivities. I would rather bust my ass, work harder than anyone thinks is possible, and collapse in 10-15 minutes knowing I kicked my own butt, while some other people would rather workout for an hour, with a slightly lesser intensity and more volume. If I suddenly tried to workout for hours on end, I would hate it. If I lowered my intensity I would feel unchallenged. If I did 20 reps on everything, I would hate the pain that causes. Others who like high reps probably would hate the drop sets and pain caused by my way of training. I hate running, others may hate weights and love running.

    The same thing applies for diet - I may eat 4-5 times/day and others may find that they naturally do an intermittent fast every day.

    I think noticing these tenancies is important - it can help you to make the smallest adjustments possible that will get results. If someone normally eats 2 meals a day, going to an intermittent fasting setup might be almost unnoticeable - while going to 6 meals a day will seem like a big change and a chore. I think noticing people's tendencies and adjusting the small stuff can make the change easier.

    Dude this is really good, and awesome progress, it's tough to make a change. I am glad you see your future through your dad and grandmother and want to have a different future. Not being able to walk is a horrible thing, my mother when she was young was given Polio through the vaccine. She can hardly walk today. I also want to help her with her weight. It's hard for her to exercise with this problem though.

    He tells me, with lifting weights, his muscles feel tighter and stronger, so I think your right he is seeing a lot of benefits.

    At least he likes my training which is high volume! LOL
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