Honey?

[a312]

Is there an acceptable form of honey we can eat if fat loss is the goal?

 

[Noxchi]

I dont know what you mean by eating honey, how much do you plan to eat ? but you can eat in breakfast, not so much but a few teaspoon or maybe after trainings. The important point is you need to be careful if its real honey or added artificial sugar.

 

[Rhfarris]

Doesn't really matter what form of honey you use as long as you fit it into your daily calories/carbs. 1 teaspoon honey = 64 calories 17 grams carbs.

 

[a312]

Thank you

 

[laneanders]

I eat honey in my oatmeal every morning. I prefer it to sugar.

 

[PuZo]

Get real honey, not the liquid(syrupy) crap.

 

[a312]

Get real honey, not the liquid(syrupy) crap.

U mean the one thats set?

 

[Magdalena]

Raw, unpasteurized honey...
If u must, lolz...

 

[a312]

I have a major sweet tooth thats all, what do u do if you crave something sweet?

 

[Magdalena]

I have a major sweet tooth thats all, what do u do if you crave something sweet?

I count down the days till my next cheat meal..
Than I go hard my friend!! U can polish off six doughnuts , and a container of ice cream all in one sitting...
After a huge sweet fix, I'm usually good for the week..

 

[Magdalena]

Oops I meant to say I, not u lol...^^^

 

[Deak007]

I count down the days till my next cheat meal..
Than I go hard my friend!! U can polish off six doughnuts , and a container of ice cream all in one sitting...
After a huge sweet fix, I'm usually good for the week..

This! I do not have honey during a cut, but that doesn't mean you couldn't... I would add it in post workout, as your body utilizes the fast acting carbohydrates better then than the slower acting...

 

[Magdalena]

Ok ok, I will b honest ....
My cheat meal is on saturdays, but even a month out I was mega craving sweets by Wednesday...
So I would break down n have a piece of dark chocolate and a diet Pepsi , ha ha...
What helped me with stopping at just one piece was the protein I consumed prior to my guilty pleasure...

 

[Deak007]

Ok ok, I will b honest ....
My cheat meal is on saturdays, but even a month out I was mega craving sweets by Wednesday...
So I would break down n have a piece of dark chocolate and a diet Pepsi , ha ha...
What helped me with stopping at just one piece was the protein I consumed prior to my guilty pleasure...

Honesty is the best policy!

 

[watsonjohn]

Honey is really helpful in weight loss.

 

[Rostam]

Really? In what regard? Where did you get the info honey can help weight loss?

 

[Deak007]

Really? In what regard? Where did you get the info honey can help weight loss?

This! The only thing I can think of is supplementing honey in post workout, since your body craves simple carbs... other than that... i got nothing...

 

[I_Eat_Iron]

I add it in my oatmeal also along with dashes of cinnamon and pb. I can't wait till the morning now just to indulge in my breakfast!!

 

[PuZo]

I'll have about a teaspoon every morning.

 

[abs322]

is this you???

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teen-thug-kills-54000-bees-122808

 

[hypo]

There's nothing wrong with honey, or even pure sugar, on a diet. You should have a calorie goal, and if you want honey, just eat it and note how many calories it has. The only "problem" with calorie dense foods when dieting is that they don't provide much satiety nor much volume, so you use up your daily allotment of calories quickly. For example a squirt of honey probably has the same calories as a whole cup or two of broccoli. Which do you think will keep you fuller for longer? No need to avoid sugars unless you're diabetic!

 

[hvactech]

But honey tastes better.... I can't drizzle broccoli over my sweet potatoe fries

 

[hypo]

But honey tastes better.... I can't drizzle broccoli over my sweet potatoe fries

Ha, nope guess you can't! My favorite way to eat sweet potatoes is to peel one, dice it to 1/2" chunks or so, microwave it, then sprinkle a packet of Splenda over them followed by some cinnamon. No extra calories and it tastes great. To be honest I still haven't figured out a good way to spice up broccoli :/

 

[hvactech]

Garlic butter works for me

 

[veaderko]

I have a major sweet tooth thats all, what do u do if you crave something sweet?

There is a thread somewhere around here that I gave a list of a lot of things I make when I get a sweet tooth. If its right after training I indulge a "little" but if its after dinner my main go to thing now is a protein brownie.

Whey Protean
Muscle Egg
Mix, microwave, done!

If you love dark chocolate like me, a little sprinkle of cocoa powder on top works great.

 

[ilia_p]

There's nothing wrong with honey, or even pure sugar, on a diet. You should have a calorie goal, and if you want honey, just eat it and note how many calories it has. The only "problem" with calorie dense foods when dieting is that they don't provide much satiety nor much volume, so you use up your daily allotment of calories quickly. For example a squirt of honey probably has the same calories as a whole cup or two of broccoli. Which do you think will keep you fuller for longer? No need to avoid sugars unless you're diabetic!

How do you think diabetics are made? There is plenty of research out there showing the detrimental effects of sugar on the human body, it's effects on the brain etc. I don't think that, just because you can't immediately see or feel the effects of something, you can say with 100% certainty that it's not doing your health any harm.

That being said, I do think that there may be some benefit to keeping your blood sugar levels stable if you're looking to lose weight. You'll feel a lot more satiated if you keep your blood sugar levels stable without extreme peaks and troughs.

Many bodybuilders develop hyperinsulinemia as a result of the 'no need to avoid sugars so lets constantly spike our insulin with simple carbs and whey' mentality. I think there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat (the cat being optimal body composition) and sometimes the old thinking of needing to get carbs in post workout, etc. with a protein shake may not be as accurate as we first thought.

 

[thegodfather]

Peanut butter and honey sandwiches are one of my favorite post-workout meals.

 

[RecompMan]

How do you think diabetics are made? There is plenty of research out there showing the detrimental effects of sugar on the human body, it's effects on the brain etc. I don't think that, just because you can't immediately see or feel the effects of something, you can say with 100% certainty that it's not doing your health any harm.

That being said, I do think that there may be some benefit to keeping your blood sugar levels stable if you're looking to lose weight. You'll feel a lot more satiated if you keep your blood sugar levels stable without extreme peaks and troughs.

Many bodybuilders develop hyperinsulinemia as a result of the 'no need to avoid sugars so lets constantly spike our insulin with simple carbs and whey' mentality. I think there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat (the cat being optimal body composition) and sometimes the old thinking of needing to get carbs in post workout, etc. with a protein shake may not be as accurate as we first thought.

There's some validity to that. But I digress ;

Honey is glucose and fructose but I believe isomaltulose is found in there as well which is a sugar that is slow digesting and made into a supplement as a GRAS sweetener

Here's a study on isomaltulose and insulin (is reducing the spikes is what you want)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19671200/

So palantinose would be your product in this respect

 

[pyrobatt]

Is there an acceptable form of honey we can eat if fat loss is the goal?

The kind you eat. Just fit it in.

 

[hypo]

How do you think diabetics are made? There is plenty of research out there showing the detrimental effects of sugar on the human body, it's effects on the brain etc. I don't think that, just because you can't immediately see or feel the effects of something, you can say with 100% certainty that it's not doing your health any harm.

That being said, I do think that there may be some benefit to keeping your blood sugar levels stable if you're looking to lose weight. You'll feel a lot more satiated if you keep your blood sugar levels stable without extreme peaks and troughs.

Many bodybuilders develop hyperinsulinemia as a result of the 'no need to avoid sugars so lets constantly spike our insulin with simple carbs and whey' mentality. I think there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat (the cat being optimal body composition) and sometimes the old thinking of needing to get carbs in post workout, etc. with a protein shake may not be as accurate as we first thought.

Actually, I used to think a high GI diet led to diabetes also, however this has never been proven in research. Check this article:

http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html

Even diabetes foundations admit a high sugar diet is not directly linked to type 2 diabetes. Research shows a link between obese people and type 2 diabetes forming, and also a study has shown that people who drink sugary drinks are more likely to develop type 2 diabetes, BUT the consensus seems to be that being overweight is the risk factor, NOT the sugar or insulin spike itself (people who drink sugary drinks are more likely to be overweight due to the high calorie consumption)

I was very surprised to learn this myself, for years I had heard that insulin spikes essentially wear out the pancreas, but it turns out it's not true, or at least not proven.

If you could show me some of the studies you mention I'd love to read them. Still learning myself. Also I still tend towards a lower GI diet mostly due to habit and more volume per calorie, but I just stress less over eating fast carbs now. My post just meant to explain that if the OP wants honey, he/she should go for it.

Edit: also check out the comments/discussion going on here:

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/is-a-carb-a-carb/

 

[DWeaver]

Peanut butter and honey sandwiches are one of my favorite post-workout meals.

I do this on wheat round bread. Fix it the day before and put it in the refrigerator

 

[funkelcharles]

Yes,
Honey is the best way to loss fat on your body. Everyday morning (before take any breakfast) you take one glass of water and mix 2 spoon of honey and drink it. It will be helpful to loss weight.

 

[Mikeyjd]

Yes,
Honey is the best way to loss fat on your body. Everyday morning (before take any breakfast) you take one glass of water and mix 2 spoon of honey and drink it. It will be helpful to loss weight.

Or weight gain depending on your caloric intake vs calories needed

 

[madiskinny]

I use raw honey in my tea and cooking often times and it hasn't affected me in any way

 

[sheepdog.tx]

Is there an acceptable form of honey we can eat if fat loss is the goal?

Form? 100% pure. Dont go for that china imported or 98% corn syrup stuff. Keep it low though, while the GI of honey is lower and has some antimicrobial properties its still sugar. In fact honey gets its sweetness from the monosaccharides fructose and glucose (just like sugar), and has approximately the same relative sweetness as granulated sugar. So 64 cals a tablespoon or so.

 

[pyrobatt]

Form? 100% pure. Dont go for that china imported or 98% corn syrup stuff. Keep it low though, while the GI of honey is lower and has some antimicrobial properties its still sugar. In fact honey gets its sweetness from the monosaccharides fructose and glucose (just like sugar), and has approximately the same relative sweetness as granulated sugar. So 64 cals a tablespoon or so.

Oatmeal is sugar too at the end of the day.

 

[sheepdog.tx]

Oatmeal is sugar too at the end of the day.

No its not, not even remotely close. A carb yes, but not a sugar. Carbohydrates include compounds composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. "Sugars" are almost always monosaccharides that are wholy or in part glucose, fructose, and galactose but can also include disaccharides. By your definition fiber is sugar, yet many forms aren't broken down by the body in any form or just as SCFAs. Its this kind of talk that confuses things. Do oats include some sugars, sure but also include some protein, fiber, small amount of fat depending on processing, etc. In fact in the whole groats I flake (Bob's Red Mill) the label shows 1 gram of sugar vs the 2.5 of fat and 7 grams of oats, both which are so low people rarely know it contains them.

This isn't to jump your butt about the sugar arguement but we need to stop with the insanity that people are saying that leads to this midseat that HFCS and whole oats are the same thing so I might as well drink a 2 liter of soda for recovery. You MIGHT get away with that if you have juge glycogen stores but for your average dieter/beginning lifter you're setting them up for failure.

 

[pyrobatt]

No its not, not even remotely close. A carb yes, but not a sugar. Carbohydrates include compounds composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. "Sugars" are almost always monosaccharides that are wholy or in part glucose, fructose, and galactose but can also include disaccharides. By your definition fiber is sugar, yet many forms aren't broken down by the body in any form or just as SCFAs. Its this kind of talk that confuses things. Do oats include some sugars, sure but also include some protein, fiber, small amount of fat depending on processing, etc. In fact in the whole groats I flake (Bob's Red Mill) the label shows 1 gram of sugar vs the 2.5 of fat and 7 grams of oats, both which are so low people rarely know it contains them.

This isn't to jump your butt about the sugar arguement but we need to stop with the insanity that people are saying that leads to this midseat that HFCS and whole oats are the same thing so I might as well drink a 2 liter of soda for recovery. You MIGHT get away with that if you have juge glycogen stores but for your average dieter/beginning lifter you're setting them up for failure.

I didn't say fiber is glucose. However oats have more than just fiber.

 

[pyrobatt]

I didn't say fiber is glucose. However oats have more than just fiber.

I should also note dieting is 95% psychological when it is called "hard" things like fiber will fill you up and I'm not saying avoid it. I'm just saying flexible dieting is better for most of the users asking for advice on these fourms. Especially contest prep.

 

[sheepdog.tx]

I should also note dieting is 95% psychological when it is called "hard" things like fiber will fill you up and I'm not saying avoid it. I'm just saying flexible dieting is better for most of the users asking for advice on these fourms. Especially contest prep.

Yeah understandable. And to some degree I'm slowly warming up to the carb is a carb is a carb discussion, particially post WO. However point is theres alot of people out there talking themselves into bad choices cause they think all carbs are equal. Besides fiber and complexity we hashed out think about fructose. Due to how the liver processes this fructose doesn't refill mucle glycogen from what I understand. So if thats the case is it any wonder that switching kids diets from sugar (one glucuse, one fructose) to HFCS (dual fructose) wouldn't have a huge impact? Think about it kiddo plays all day, does soccer after school, then we load them up with HFCS which spills over easily ut leaves thier bodies wanting more carbs. Again I could have it wrong but thats what the pubmeds I'm reading suggest. So with that said one could argue even subsets of various simple carbs could make a difference.

 

[pyrobatt]

Yeah understandable. And to some degree I'm slowly warming up to the carb is a carb is a carb discussion, particially post WO. However point is theres alot of people out there talking themselves into bad choices cause they think all carbs are equal. Besides fiber and complexity we hashed out think about fructose. Due to how the liver processes this fructose doesn't refill mucle glycogen from what I understand. So if thats the case is it any wonder that switching kids diets from sugar (one glucuse, one fructose) to HFCS (dual fructose) wouldn't have a huge impact? Think about it kiddo plays all day, does soccer after school, then we load them up with HFCS which spills over easily ut leaves thier bodies wanting more carbs. Again I could have it wrong but thats what the pubmeds I'm reading suggest. So with that said one could argue even subsets of various simple carbs could make a difference.

Yes. HFCS has not been studied except for In sedentary people. If your active and take care of yourself*know when and how to diet* you shouldn't and don't have to limit fructose or HFCS to such a severe degree.

 

[RecompMan]

Yes. HFCS has not been studied except for In sedentary people. If your active and take care of yourself*know when and how to diet* you shouldn't and don't have to limit fructose or HFCS to such a severe degree.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579313009228

 

[PuZo]

Honey(the real kind) is nature's perfect carbohydrate.

 

[pyrobatt]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579313009228

Doesn't say if that study is done on trained individuals. Body chemistry works different yet the same. An example is mps and glycogen stores. That's my problem with avoiding fructose of any kind. Most likely in athletes or in the trained fructose will have little to do with fat storage or fat loss. Generally none of the users here want to get under 8% bodyfat. If you think fructose Will slow or stop that it's nonsense. If you're getting ready for a show..sure cut out the fruit but generally won't be an issue. I got to 7% naturally with the help of strawberries, HFCS sauce and bread. My blood work looks great and I will shoot some links back at you in a moment.

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/pages/articleviewer.aspx?mobile=0&year=2010&issue=07000&article=00015&type=Abstract&desktopMode=true

 

[RecompMan]

Doesn't say if that study is done on trained individuals. Body chemistry works different yet the same. An example is mps and glycogen stores. That's my problem with avoiding fructose of any kind. Most likely in athletes or in the trained fructose will have little to do with fat storage or fat loss. Generally none of the users here want to get under 8% bodyfat. If you think fructose Will slow or stop that it's nonsense. If you're getting ready for a show..sure cut out the fruit but generally won't be an issue. I got to 7% naturally with the help of strawberries, HFCS sauce and bread. My blood work looks great and I will shoot some links back at you in a moment.

Trained or not it wouldn't matter on that cell line.

Differentiation they do in different mediums showing the effects on different markers in early and late stages of differention

Basically that study shows increased lipid droplets and triglyceride formation. But the amount to consume per day I didn't see listed In anything

 

[pyrobatt]

Trained or not it wouldn't matter on that cell line.

Differentiation they do in different mediums showing the effects on different markers in early and late stages of differention

Basically that study shows increased lipid droplets and triglyceride formation. But the amount to consume per day I didn't see listed In anything

There's another issue with fructose related studies.
Most of the fructose studies out there say words like "may and "can" which is far from solid info and some are outright contradictory. They probably won't account for a 3200*my maintenance* diet or my 3600 bulking calories. I will say my fructose in the area of fruits is pre workout. One study in particular studied the consumption of fructose before endurance exercise. It actually states it's a performance boost vs cereal. 26% is big enough for me to try it. Works for me.

Bring home message is try something. Don't cut some food group out before trying it.

 

[RecompMan]

There's another issue with fructose related studies.
Most of the fructose studies out there say words like "may and "can" which is far from solid info and some are outright contradictory. They probably won't account for a 3200*my maintenance* diet or my 3600 bulking calories. I will say my fructose in the area of fruits is pre workout. One study in particular studied the consumption of fructose before endurance exercise. It actually states it's a performance boost vs cereal. 26% is big enough for me to try it. Works for me.

Bring home message is try something. Don't cut some food group out before trying it.

For sure man

But I'd rather palantinose or trehalose for that purpose due to the effects it has on insulin.

I'd avoid fructose in a caloric surplus since adipogenic (anabolism) is more likely to occur.

 

[sheepdog.tx]

For sure man

But I'd rather palantinose or trehalose for that purpose due to the effects it has on insulin.

I'd avoid fructose in a caloric surplus since adipogenic (anabolism) is more likely to occur.

On that subject what foods would you focus on to stay more in the palantinose or trehalose catagory? Looking online I really can't find a list of foods in that carb list.

 

[pyrobatt]

For sure man

But I'd rather palantinose or trehalose for that purpose due to the effects it has on insulin.

I'd avoid fructose in a caloric surplus since adipogenic (anabolism) is more likely to occur.

I don't intake THAT much fructose but I feel my carbs are better spent on grains, starches and veggies on a surplus. Although I'm a morning trainee so..my pre workout fruit with cereal and oats or w/e is a keeper. I get about 100 carbs,20g fat and 30 g protein about an hour pre. That will make most people sluggish or throw up lol! Works for me though.

 

[RecompMan]

On that subject what foods would you focus on to stay more in the palantinose or trehalose catagory? Looking online I really can't find a list of foods in that carb list.

Palantinose (isomaltulose) is found in small amounts in honey

Millennium just came out with a carb powder with it. Or ctd labs enduropro.