Honey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    Peanut butter and honey sandwiches are one of my favorite post-workout meals.
    I do this on wheat round bread. Fix it the day before and put it in the refrigerator

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    Yes,
    Honey is the best way to loss fat on your body. Everyday morning (before take any breakfast) you take one glass of water and mix 2 spoon of honey and drink it. It will be helpful to loss weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkelcharles View Post
    Yes,
    Honey is the best way to loss fat on your body. Everyday morning (before take any breakfast) you take one glass of water and mix 2 spoon of honey and drink it. It will be helpful to loss weight.
    Or weight gain depending on your caloric intake vs calories needed
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    I use raw honey in my tea and cooking often times and it hasn't affected me in any way
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    Quote Originally Posted by a312 View Post
    Is there an acceptable form of honey we can eat if fat loss is the goal?
    Form? 100% pure. Dont go for that china imported or 98% corn syrup stuff. Keep it low though, while the GI of honey is lower and has some antimicrobial properties its still sugar. In fact honey gets its sweetness from the monosaccharides fructose and glucose (just like sugar), and has approximately the same relative sweetness as granulated sugar. So 64 cals a tablespoon or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post

    Form? 100% pure. Dont go for that china imported or 98% corn syrup stuff. Keep it low though, while the GI of honey is lower and has some antimicrobial properties its still sugar. In fact honey gets its sweetness from the monosaccharides fructose and glucose (just like sugar), and has approximately the same relative sweetness as granulated sugar. So 64 cals a tablespoon or so.
    Oatmeal is sugar too at the end of the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Oatmeal is sugar too at the end of the day.
    No its not, not even remotely close. A carb yes, but not a sugar. Carbohydrates include compounds composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. "Sugars" are almost always monosaccharides that are wholy or in part glucose, fructose, and galactose but can also include disaccharides. By your definition fiber is sugar, yet many forms aren't broken down by the body in any form or just as SCFAs. Its this kind of talk that confuses things. Do oats include some sugars, sure but also include some protein, fiber, small amount of fat depending on processing, etc. In fact in the whole groats I flake (Bob's Red Mill) the label shows 1 gram of sugar vs the 2.5 of fat and 7 grams of oats, both which are so low people rarely know it contains them.

    This isn't to jump your butt about the sugar arguement but we need to stop with the insanity that people are saying that leads to this midseat that HFCS and whole oats are the same thing so I might as well drink a 2 liter of soda for recovery. You MIGHT get away with that if you have juge glycogen stores but for your average dieter/beginning lifter you're setting them up for failure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post

    No its not, not even remotely close. A carb yes, but not a sugar. Carbohydrates include compounds composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. "Sugars" are almost always monosaccharides that are wholy or in part glucose, fructose, and galactose but can also include disaccharides. By your definition fiber is sugar, yet many forms aren't broken down by the body in any form or just as SCFAs. Its this kind of talk that confuses things. Do oats include some sugars, sure but also include some protein, fiber, small amount of fat depending on processing, etc. In fact in the whole groats I flake (Bob's Red Mill) the label shows 1 gram of sugar vs the 2.5 of fat and 7 grams of oats, both which are so low people rarely know it contains them.

    This isn't to jump your butt about the sugar arguement but we need to stop with the insanity that people are saying that leads to this midseat that HFCS and whole oats are the same thing so I might as well drink a 2 liter of soda for recovery. You MIGHT get away with that if you have juge glycogen stores but for your average dieter/beginning lifter you're setting them up for failure.
    I didn't say fiber is glucose. However oats have more than just fiber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    I didn't say fiber is glucose. However oats have more than just fiber.
    I should also note dieting is 95% psychological when it is called "hard" things like fiber will fill you up and I'm not saying avoid it. I'm just saying flexible dieting is better for most of the users asking for advice on these fourms. Especially contest prep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    I should also note dieting is 95% psychological when it is called "hard" things like fiber will fill you up and I'm not saying avoid it. I'm just saying flexible dieting is better for most of the users asking for advice on these fourms. Especially contest prep.
    Yeah understandable. And to some degree I'm slowly warming up to the carb is a carb is a carb discussion, particially post WO. However point is theres alot of people out there talking themselves into bad choices cause they think all carbs are equal. Besides fiber and complexity we hashed out think about fructose. Due to how the liver processes this fructose doesn't refill mucle glycogen from what I understand. So if thats the case is it any wonder that switching kids diets from sugar (one glucuse, one fructose) to HFCS (dual fructose) wouldn't have a huge impact? Think about it kiddo plays all day, does soccer after school, then we load them up with HFCS which spills over easily ut leaves thier bodies wanting more carbs. Again I could have it wrong but thats what the pubmeds I'm reading suggest. So with that said one could argue even subsets of various simple carbs could make a difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post

    Yeah understandable. And to some degree I'm slowly warming up to the carb is a carb is a carb discussion, particially post WO. However point is theres alot of people out there talking themselves into bad choices cause they think all carbs are equal. Besides fiber and complexity we hashed out think about fructose. Due to how the liver processes this fructose doesn't refill mucle glycogen from what I understand. So if thats the case is it any wonder that switching kids diets from sugar (one glucuse, one fructose) to HFCS (dual fructose) wouldn't have a huge impact? Think about it kiddo plays all day, does soccer after school, then we load them up with HFCS which spills over easily ut leaves thier bodies wanting more carbs. Again I could have it wrong but thats what the pubmeds I'm reading suggest. So with that said one could argue even subsets of various simple carbs could make a difference.
    Yes. HFCS has not been studied except for In sedentary people. If your active and take care of yourself*know when and how to diet* you shouldn't and don't have to limit fructose or HFCS to such a severe degree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Yes. HFCS has not been studied except for In sedentary people. If your active and take care of yourself*know when and how to diet* you shouldn't and don't have to limit fructose or HFCS to such a severe degree.
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...14579313009228
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    Honey(the real kind) is nature's perfect carbohydrate.
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    Doesn't say if that study is done on trained individuals. Body chemistry works different yet the same. An example is mps and glycogen stores. That's my problem with avoiding fructose of any kind. Most likely in athletes or in the trained fructose will have little to do with fat storage or fat loss. Generally none of the users here want to get under 8% bodyfat. If you think fructose Will slow or stop that it's nonsense. If you're getting ready for a show..sure cut out the fruit but generally won't be an issue. I got to 7% naturally with the help of strawberries, HFCS sauce and bread. My blood work looks great and I will shoot some links back at you in a moment.

    http://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/pa...sktopMode=true
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Doesn't say if that study is done on trained individuals. Body chemistry works different yet the same. An example is mps and glycogen stores. That's my problem with avoiding fructose of any kind. Most likely in athletes or in the trained fructose will have little to do with fat storage or fat loss. Generally none of the users here want to get under 8% bodyfat. If you think fructose Will slow or stop that it's nonsense. If you're getting ready for a show..sure cut out the fruit but generally won't be an issue. I got to 7% naturally with the help of strawberries, HFCS sauce and bread. My blood work looks great and I will shoot some links back at you in a moment.
    Trained or not it wouldn't matter on that cell line.

    Differentiation they do in different mediums showing the effects on different markers in early and late stages of differention

    Basically that study shows increased lipid droplets and triglyceride formation. But the amount to consume per day I didn't see listed In anything
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    Trained or not it wouldn't matter on that cell line.

    Differentiation they do in different mediums showing the effects on different markers in early and late stages of differention

    Basically that study shows increased lipid droplets and triglyceride formation. But the amount to consume per day I didn't see listed In anything
    There's another issue with fructose related studies.
    Most of the fructose studies out there say words like "may and "can" which is far from solid info and some are outright contradictory. They probably won't account for a 3200*my maintenance* diet or my 3600 bulking calories. I will say my fructose in the area of fruits is pre workout. One study in particular studied the consumption of fructose before endurance exercise. It actually states it's a performance boost vs cereal. 26% is big enough for me to try it. Works for me.

    Bring home message is try something. Don't cut some food group out before trying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    There's another issue with fructose related studies.
    Most of the fructose studies out there say words like "may and "can" which is far from solid info and some are outright contradictory. They probably won't account for a 3200*my maintenance* diet or my 3600 bulking calories. I will say my fructose in the area of fruits is pre workout. One study in particular studied the consumption of fructose before endurance exercise. It actually states it's a performance boost vs cereal. 26% is big enough for me to try it. Works for me.

    Bring home message is try something. Don't cut some food group out before trying it.
    For sure man

    But I'd rather palantinose or trehalose for that purpose due to the effects it has on insulin.

    I'd avoid fructose in a caloric surplus since adipogenic (anabolism) is more likely to occur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    For sure man

    But I'd rather palantinose or trehalose for that purpose due to the effects it has on insulin.

    I'd avoid fructose in a caloric surplus since adipogenic (anabolism) is more likely to occur.
    On that subject what foods would you focus on to stay more in the palantinose or trehalose catagory? Looking online I really can't find a list of foods in that carb list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post

    For sure man

    But I'd rather palantinose or trehalose for that purpose due to the effects it has on insulin.

    I'd avoid fructose in a caloric surplus since adipogenic (anabolism) is more likely to occur.
    I don't intake THAT much fructose but I feel my carbs are better spent on grains, starches and veggies on a surplus. Although I'm a morning trainee so..my pre workout fruit with cereal and oats or w/e is a keeper. I get about 100 carbs,20g fat and 30 g protein about an hour pre. That will make most people sluggish or throw up lol! Works for me though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post

    On that subject what foods would you focus on to stay more in the palantinose or trehalose catagory? Looking online I really can't find a list of foods in that carb list.
    Palantinose (isomaltulose) is found in small amounts in honey

    Millennium just came out with a carb powder with it. Or ctd labs enduropro.
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