Which plan would burm more fat and spare more muscle.

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  1. Which plan would burm more fat and spare more muscle.


    Option 1. Fasted cardio with BCAA, HIIT, and LISS alternated. Immediately after 3/4cup of oats and 30g of whey and then weight training as heavy as possible while maintaining 8-10 rep range. Cardio would only be every other day and diet is in check obviously.

    Option 2. 3/4 cups oats, 30g whey, then weight training. Followed by cardio with BCAA same style of cardio and same alternation every other day.

    Or in the scheme of things does it just not matter, besides consistency and diet. My goal is to reach 8% body fat and maintain through summer, right now I'm 6,1 200 sitting around 11-13% body fat.

    Also due to scheduling with work and school these are my only choices from 6am-7:30am every day.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post
    Option 1. Fasted cardio with BCAA, HIIT, and LISS alternated. Immediately after 3/4cup of oats and 30g of whey and then weight training as heavy as possible while maintaining 8-10 rep range. Cardio would only be every other day and diet is in check obviously.

    Option 2. 3/4 cups oats, 30g whey, then weight training. Followed by cardio with BCAA same style of cardio and same alternation every other day.

    Or in the scheme of things does it just not matter, besides consistency and diet. My goal is to reach 8% body fat and maintain through summer, right now I'm 6,1 200 sitting around 11-13% body fat.

    Also due to scheduling with work and school these are my only choices from 6am-7:30am every day.
    Are you natural or enhanced?
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt
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  3. People have different opinions on what the best method is. Here are my thoughts.

    Fasted cardio seemed absolutely useless for ME. I would hardly sweat and my energy was in the crapper. Now this was doing LISS, i dont even want to think about HIIT in a fasted state.

    When i eat a meal before cardio whether it be liss or hiit it "feels" more productive to me.

    IMO the best way to do things would be to split up training and cardio, one am and one pm. Now for most this isnt possible so i do mine after i workout.

    Now if your not competing in the olympia and hell even if you are IMO as long as you are consistent with diet, training, and cardio your results will be just fine.
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  4. Splitting up cardio and lifting like 3gt said is my personal favorite as well.

    You get two calorie expenditures during the day. Also your body continues to burn calories at an increased rate for about thirty minutes once you are done with vigorous activity so instead of one thirty minute period of extra cals burned you get two.

    I lift mid day then about three hours after my last meal of the night I will do twenty to thirty minutes of LISS followed by BCAA.

    If you can't split the sessions I would go with twenty minutes of LISS post workout.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Are you natural or enhanced?
    If natural go ahead and do liss after weight training. It really doesn't matter but hiit has been shown to hinder recovery. It increases calories burned,same as liss. Not more proficient not less. Just more in less time. Just get your protein and carbs in before training.

    If enhanced then you can afford to do 2 days of hiit*guessing* without compromising recovery. But then again...different compounds effect nutrient partitioning and recovery different ways. Please list what your on if enhanced.

    It really shouldn't matter. If you diet slowly.

    Dont add in liss 4 x a week from 0 days a week. Adding a bunch of cardio and a calorie deficit is how a bunch of us lose muscle mass faster.

    Please note if you can do over 20 minutes of of hiit then your not doing hiit. Time to up the intensity,change cardio, or switch to steady state.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt
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  6. What about 1cup oats+30gwhey upon awakening, then 20 min LISS or 10min HIIT alternated bi-daily, then bcaa + preworkout and then lift. Or should i down another 20g of whey isolate after cardio?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post
    What about 1cup oats+30gwhey upon awakening, then 20 min LISS or 10min HIIT alternated bi-daily, then bcaa + preworkout and then lift. Or should i down another 20g of whey isolate after cardio?
    As long as you have a good preworkout meal your good. Don't be paralyzed by over analyzing everything.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  8. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    As long as you have a good preworkout meal your good. Don't be paralyzed by over analyzing everything.
    Alright thanks

  9. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    If natural go ahead and do liss after weight training. It really doesn't matter but hiit has been shown to hinder recovery. It increases calories burned,same as liss. Not more proficient not less. Just more in less time. Just get your protein and carbs in before training.

    If enhanced then you can afford to do 2 days of hiit*guessing* without compromising recovery. But then again...different compounds effect nutrient partitioning and recovery different ways. Please list what your on if enhanced.

    It really shouldn't matter. If you diet slowly.

    Dont add in liss 4 x a week from 0 days a week. Adding a bunch of cardio and a calorie deficit is how a bunch of us lose muscle mass faster.

    Please note if you can do over 20 minutes of of hiit then your not doing hiit. Time to up the intensity,change cardio, or switch to steady state.
    Have you got a reference for this? It opposes the view of the research I have read.

    Here is my in-depth video on the topic including which method of cardio interfere with hypertrophy, strength and power output as well as which methods of cardio can actually increase lean body mass.

    References are all listed underneath the video for people who like reading up.

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  10. My thoughts...

    I think HIIT and LISS BOTH have their benefits... personally, I like LISS fasted, and HIIT post lifting... I utilize both, pending on my situation... Since I cannot do fasted cardio during the week, I do HIIT post lifting a couple times, and do LISS on the weekend when I can.

    As for nutrition... FASTED LISS is fine, or you can consume some BCAA's... but no food... 1 cup oats 30g whey is fine for post cardio...

  11. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post

    Have you got a reference for this? It opposes the view of the research I have read.

    Here is my in-depth video on the topic including which method of cardio interfere with hypertrophy, strength and power output as well as which methods of cardio can actually increase lean body mass.

    References are all listed underneath the video for people who like reading up.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHza-69ghCc">YouTube Link</a>

    Foot in mouth edit. Im in work mode atm.

    It would reduce recovery via a large calorie deficit in that particular day.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  12. Well I'm going to do 2 LISS sessions for 20 mins, 15 incline, 3.5mph burns around 350 cals. That will be before my lift on Monday and Friday. Wednesday I'll be doing 10-12 mins of HIIT for another 300 calories. My calories for the day is 2500 with 300g of protein and a carb cycle of 250, 100, 50. I've had success last year reaching 8% body fat this way. Just open to trying different alternatives. And I do use supplements, BCAA, creatine, fish oil, multi, CLA, pre workout, post workout, casein before bed, and carintine... probably a couple more because I work in the supplement industry. Just got off an 8 week of Abe and Ep. Might throw compound 20 on in this cut along with some alphamine

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post
    Well I'm going to do 2 LISS sessions for 20 mins, 15 incline, 3.5mph burns around 350 cals. That will be before my lift on Monday and Friday. Wednesday I'll be doing 10-12 mins of HIIT for another 300 calories. My calories for the day is 2500 with 300g of protein and a carb cycle of 250, 100, 50. I've had success last year reaching 8% body fat this way. Just open to trying different alternatives. And I do use supplements, BCAA, creatine, fish oil, multi, CLA, pre workout, post workout, casein before bed, and carintine... probably a couple more because I work in the supplement industry. Just got off an 8 week of Abe and Ep. Might throw compound 20 on in this cut along with some alphamine
    How much is your caloric deficit ?
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  14. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    How much is your caloric deficit ?
    My TDEE is 2700 apparently. So I figured 200 under that and cardio works.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post

    My TDEE is 2700 apparently. So I figured 200 under that and cardio works.
    Foot in mouth edit. My bad completely.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  16. Wait. How did you get that number? If I burn 300 cals every other day plus 200 deficit wouldn't that be 2000? I guess lifting heavy adds another 200? So isn't 1800 more accurate? Plus on the days I don't do cardio I would be hitting around 2400? 2700-300 from lifting? I'm confused now :P

  17. i have tested this every way in abovementioned / for me with sleep getting very sound sleep major factor the best program for me hiit morning 20 min. every morning sometimes is wish to go more then 20 min. when I do the next day suffer a little hiit so discipline is on order to staying within time / some days I do this fasted and some days after breakfast / always lift around 4:00 done by 5:00 and rarely trouble to sleep my friend this is not to say the way for you I only listed this repertoire because for personal use it is after much trial and error the best i have found take from it what you will
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    i have tested this every way in abovementioned / for me with sleep getting very sound sleep major factor the best program for me hiit morning 20 min. every morning sometimes is wish to go more then 20 min. when I do the next day suffer a little hiit so discipline is on order to staying within time / some days I do this fasted and some days after breakfast / always lift around 4:00 done by 5:00 and rarely trouble to sleep my friend this is not to say the way for you I only listed this repertoire because for personal use it is after much trial and error the best i have found take from it what you will
    Unfortunately I cannot lift at 4 or 5 pm. My schedule only allows for cardio and weights concurrently. I do get 8 hours at least every night. Obviously diet, sleep, and consistency is an absolute must to actually achieve difficult fitness goals.

  19. ^^^^ should probably throw in water/hydration up there too lol

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post
    Wait. How did you get that number? If I burn 300 cals every other day plus 200 deficit wouldn't that be 2000? I guess lifting heavy adds another 200? So isn't 1800 more accurate? Plus on the days I don't do cardio I would be hitting around 2400? 2700-300 from lifting? I'm confused now :P
    Shiz im sorry. Ive got a case coming up.

    You'd be in a 2100 calorie deficit a week.

    You'd be pushing 500 to 600 deficit on the days you do cardio.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  21. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Shiz im sorry. Ive got a case coming up.

    You'd be in a 2100 calorie deficit a week.

    You'd be pushing 500 to 600 deficit on the days you do cardio.
    Are you a lawyer? If so I'm studying law right now. Also is 2100 cals a week sufficient, too scare, or too much?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post

    Are you a lawyer? If so I'm studying law right now. Also is 2100 cals a week sufficient, too scare, or too much?
    Yes I am. You get lost in those cases haha!

    Its sufficient but I can say 500 deficit is alot starting off. I add cardio slowly.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  23. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Yes I am. You get lost in those cases haha!

    Its sufficient but I can say 500 deficit is alot starting off. I add cardio slowly.
    In learning to love to read these 100+ page cases haha. I hate legal citation though, its a pain. I'll stick to 2 cardio sessions a week. My body seems to lose body fat fast as long as diet isn't compromised.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post

    In learning to love to read these 100+ page cases haha. I hate legal citation though, its a pain. I'll stick to 2 cardio sessions a week. My body seems to lose body fat fast as long as diet isn't compromised.
    Try reading or...trying to read a puzzle of redacted documents. Working on a case for a defence contractor here. 400 pages. Most of pages 165 through 297 are redacted. Lets see if I can win this ****. Im currently acting as defense attorney.

    Wrongful termination case. Some gentleman got hurt,couldn't do his job,had to let him go. He cant hold a spoon now let alone a rifle. I cant go into detail but the employers were in the right. I just gotta prove it.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  25. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Try reading or...trying to read a puzzle of redacted documents. Working on a case for a defence contractor here. 400 pages. Most of pages 165 through 297 are redacted. Lets see if I can win this ****. Im currently acting as defense attorney.

    Wrongful termination case. Some gentleman got hurt,couldn't do his job,had to let him go. He cant hold a spoon now let alone a rifle. I cant go into detail but the employers were in the right. I just gotta prove it.
    Bad ass! Im excited to practice law. I enjoy business law the most. Criminal and Family law just annoy me. I'm reading Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad right now... I'm sure you know all about it haha.

  26. My best training was done with max effort HIIT hill sprints fasted upon waking followed by breakfast, work, lunch, pre-workout, gym, post-workout, dinner. With snacks in between (usually almonds or blueberries).

    I don't do any cardio right now aside from supersetting. I'm pretty much at where I want to be in terms of body fat, I'm just on a forever slow bulk now.

  27. What % of your total daily calories comes just from your pre/post workout. I'm around 900 calories. I was wondering if that's to much?

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Fitness_Freak View Post
    What % of your total daily calories comes just from your pre/post workout. I'm around 900 calories. I was wondering if that's to much?
    Doesn't matter. Today I had a measily 400 to 600 calories. Post workout peanut butter sammich. * uh oh scarey post workout fats* and in about 2hrs when I get back in town I will consume a meal fit for a pro bodybuilder haha! As long as you've eaten all of them at the end of the day you'll do fine.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  29. I was in the military once, and eventually managed to get out. After a few years, I was again called back into the military in order to do a tour in the middle east. The problem was that I failed to keep up on my exercise routine and workout plan, so when I returned I was well overweight. Something around 22 to 24% body fat. I was lucky enough to have people around me who knew what they were doing. I was told to follow a very strict high protein diet with high cardio exercise. Within 90 days I had followed this diet, skipped all sugar and soda pop, and stuck to doing cardio exercise. I did take the time to work specific muscle groups, as well. However, I had six pack abs in 90 days and had dropped my body fat to an 11%.

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    I've cut up pretty nicely since last Monday, been 10 days now. Really want that dry/lean look though, hopefully through consistency... what % do you think I'm at? 10-11%?
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