Cutting diet help please guys :)

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    Cutting diet help please guys :)


    Hi guys Help needed I've dropped from 21 to 14% bodyfat My weight loss is slowing up. 28, 5"11 190lbs Weights 3-4times wk. adding cardio hiit this week 3xwk
    I want to get to sub 10% ASAP

    This is what my diet looks like Incl carbs rolled oats morning and bodytronics express- after training
    Protein, chicken , fish beef etc Veg and salad most meals
    Whey protein shakes morning, casein at bed time and lean pro max with almonds snack

    Non training days P46/c19/f35 ratio
    P-209g C-86g F-71g

    Training days P48/c21/f31
    P-251g C-111g F-72g

    I know it's not a typical ratio split , but so many views on the subject I think I've hit a plateau already
    Are cheat meals important... To be fair once a week minimum and it will be kebab or pizza or curry lol
    Do you guys think I need to stop cheat meals or I need them ?
    How does my macros look also I'm doing clen 2 wks on n eca 2wks swapping

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    Maintenance cals 2500
    Non training days I'm eating 1850-1900 cals
    Training days 2150-2200 cals
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    You dont have to cut cheat meals. Try adding in a little bit kore calories slowly throughout the week. Maybe bump up to 2500 calories for the entire week and hang out there for a little bit. Just make sure your not putting on fat but your diet looks pretty good. Another option is to stick with what your doing now and just add in eca. That should help too
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    yea what supps are you taking again? I know weve talked before but refresh my memory as to what youre on atm.
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    Nothing really , bought some clen . Eca I used before but can only take 1 tab a day it makes me feel weird lol
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    are you using the clen?
    you should be taking some forskolin and dexaprine/clen
    that would be a big help.
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    Did you only recently add in HIIT? That should definitely help, your diet looks pretty solid. Last few are the toughest few!
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    The macro split doesn't look bad. I would up the carbs a tad and lower the fats.

    A refeed once a week would be beneficial to keep leptin in check just don't get dirty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    You dont have to cut cheat meals. Try adding in a little bit kore calories slowly throughout the week. Maybe bump up to 2500 calories for the entire week and hang out there for a little bit. Just make sure your not putting on fat but your diet looks pretty good. Another option is to stick with what your doing now and just add in eca. That should help too
    Yes. Your metabolism is likely slowing down thus the stop in weight loss. Eat more to get things goin again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Yes. Your metabolism is likely slowing down thus the stop in weight loss. Eat more to get things goin again.
    Yes I'm having a week of increased cals so hopefully next week I'll hit it hard again lower cals and increase cardio
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    Pretty much what has already been stated. I personally stay away from any thermo's like until I stall out with fat loss. I like to take things in steps, calories first, HIIT, then Dexaprine.
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    Add in some TT-33 for a non-stim fat burner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laneanders View Post
    Add in some TT-33 for a non-stim fat burner.
    As apprised to 2 weeks clen , 2 weeks eca?
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    Quote Originally Posted by veaderko View Post
    Pretty much what has already been stated. I personally stay away from any thermo's like until I stall out with fat loss. I like to take things in steps, calories first, HIIT, then Dexaprine.
    Yes good idea , my first time cutting so not added hiit yet . Do you monitor body fat levels or just weigh yourself weekly etc for example ? To monitor
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    I just feel lost loads muscle n my bodyfat looks like it's hardly budged, my mind keeps telling me to bulk ! Get muscle back etc tshirts baggy on arms etc !!
    Not fun cutting at all lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post
    I just feel lost loads muscle n my bodyfat looks like it's hardly budged, my mind keeps telling me to bulk ! Get muscle back etc tshirts baggy on arms etc !!
    Not fun cutting at all lol
    Thats what happens when u cut calories to lose fat without being on anabolics. To remain full while cutting, u gotta eat maintenance calories BEFORE adding cardio. Then just do cardio morning and before bed and ur gtg. Simple. Eat. Train. Lots of Cardio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Thats what happens when u cut calories to lose fat without being on anabolics. To remain full while cutting, u gotta eat maintenance calories BEFORE adding cardio. Then just do cardio morning and before bed and ur gtg. Simple. Eat. Train. Lots of Cardio.
    So you don't cut calories you just add cardio ? Or you do drop calories but only after maintenance for abit ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post

    So you don't cut calories you just add cardio ? Or you do drop calories but only after maintenance for abit ?
    I find out what my maintenance calories are without a lick of cardio just weight training. Then I eat that maintenance amount and add cardio on top.

    Ur BMR is determined by ur lean mass and ur lean mass is limited to ur caloric intake. U cut calories, u cut resources for ur muscle. Dont want that.

    Two ways to cut fat mass. One way is to cut calories which is by far the more popular way because its easier. Second way is to increase energy expenditures which is more work and thus a less popular method. Problem with approach #1 is that it doesnt just cut ur fat but also ur muscle. This is a reaction that ur body has in order to survive, it feels that it must lower BMR to something that approaches the caloric intake that it is getting. This is why cutting calories only works for so long. When the weight loss stops, its because ur body has eaten some of its muscle to reduce its metabolism to a lower requirement. I have an algebraic expression that shows this model.

    X + Y = BMR + Z, where X is caloric intake, Y is fat expenditures and Z is energy expenditure from activity, which is in addition to BMR.

    Just remember that equation must always be balanced. If caloric intake goes way down, Y will increase SOME but the body realizes it isnt sustainable because fat reserves are finite. So to fix the problem of starvation, the body reduces its BMR to help balance the equation out. Thus, when performing extreme caloric cuts, the body will burn about half muscle mass and half fat mass to balance the equation. This provides a long term solution to starvation. Eventually, it will resort to nearly exclusively burning muscle mass when the body fat gets really low. Example: look at starving children and marathon runners, lol.

    If the left side of the equation is greater than the right, BMR increases and fat mass may or may not as well. This equation doesnt represent fat mass in any way, only fat expenditures. Something else to consider is that u have control over three of the four variables in this equation, X, Y & Z.

    Lastly, X has a direct relationship with BMR and Y has a direct relationship with Z. This is my approach and obviously it isnt as popular but thats ok. I'll look better on stage because of it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I find out what my maintenance calories are without a lick of cardio just weight training. Then I eat that maintenance amount and add cardio on top. Ur BMR is determined by ur lean mass and ur lean mass is limited to ur caloric intake. U cut calories, u cut resources for ur muscle. Dont want that. Two ways to cut fat mass. One way is to cut calories which is by far the more popular way because its easier. Second way is to increase energy expenditures which is more work and thus a less popular method. Problem with approach #1 is that it doesnt just cut ur fat but also ur muscle. This is a reaction that ur body has in order to survive, it feels that it must lower BMR to something that approaches the caloric intake that it is getting. This is why cutting calories only works for so long. When the weight loss stops, its because ur body has eaten some of its muscle to reduce its metabolism to a lower requirement. I have an algebraic expression that shows this model. X + Y = BMR + Z, where X is caloric intake, Y is fat expenditures and Z is energy expenditure from activity, which is in addition to BMR. Just remember that equation must always be balanced. If caloric intake goes way down, Y will increase SOME but the body realizes it isnt sustainable because fat reserves are finite. So to fix the problem of starvation, the body reduces its BMR to help balance the equation out. Thus, when performing extreme caloric cuts, the body will burn about half muscle mass and half fat mass to balance the equation. This provides a long term solution to starvation. Eventually, it will resort to nearly exclusively burning muscle mass when the body fat gets really low. Example: look at starving children and marathon runners, lol. If the left side of the equation is greater than the right, BMR increases and fat mass may or may not as well. This equation doesnt represent fat mass in any way, only fat expenditures. Something else to consider is that u have control over three of the four variables in this equation, X, Y & Z. Lastly, X has a direct relationship with BMR and Y has a direct relationship with Z. This is my approach and obviously it isnt as popular but thats ok. I'll look better on stage because of it!
    Makes sense
    Do you still do a 40 40 20 split for example gram protein per pound etc

    So maintenance then use 200cals hiit daily therefore deficit of 200 cals a day ?? Is that basically what your saying ?

    I've done well to get to 14 from 21 bodyfat so it be a shame to quit now
    I want to be 10 before I lean bulk etc ideally
    So what's your cals on off days for example and cheat meals etc
    Our summer is in June so I want to try and get another bulk 3 month bulk in somewhere lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I find out what my maintenance calories are without a lick of cardio just weight training. Then I eat that maintenance amount and add cardio on top.

    Ur BMR is determined by ur lean mass and ur lean mass is limited to ur caloric intake. U cut calories, u cut resources for ur muscle. Dont want that.

    Two ways to cut fat mass. One way is to cut calories which is by far the more popular way because its easier. Second way is to increase energy expenditures which is more work and thus a less popular method. Problem with approach #1 is that it doesnt just cut ur fat but also ur muscle. This is a reaction that ur body has in order to survive, it feels that it must lower BMR to something that approaches the caloric intake that it is getting. This is why cutting calories only works for so long. When the weight loss stops, its because ur body has eaten some of its muscle to reduce its metabolism to a lower requirement. I have an algebraic expression that shows this model.

    X + Y = BMR + Z, where X is caloric intake, Y is fat expenditures and Z is energy expenditure from activity, which is in addition to BMR.

    Just remember that equation must always be balanced. If caloric intake goes way down, Y will increase SOME but the body realizes it isnt sustainable because fat reserves are finite. So to fix the problem of starvation, the body reduces its BMR to help balance the equation out. Thus, when performing extreme caloric cuts, the body will burn about half muscle mass and half fat mass to balance the equation. This provides a long term solution to starvation. Eventually, it will resort to nearly exclusively burning muscle mass when the body fat gets really low. Example: look at starving children and marathon runners, lol.

    If the left side of the equation is greater than the right, BMR increases and fat mass may or may not as well. This equation doesnt represent fat mass in any way, only fat expenditures. Something else to consider is that u have control over three of the four variables in this equation, X, Y & Z.

    Lastly, X has a direct relationship with BMR and Y has a direct relationship with Z. This is my approach and obviously it isnt as popular but thats ok. I'll look better on stage because of it!
    How much of an impact does cardio and/or weightlifting have on weight loss?

    &

    As simple as calories in vs calories out, or is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post

    Yes good idea , my first time cutting so not added hiit yet . Do you monitor body fat levels or just weigh yourself weekly etc for example ? To monitor
    I've would monitor weight but only as a guide and not a final solution. What will be more important to monitor is your progress pictures. Ever single one of my clients hate the scale but love how their clothes are fitting and how they look in the mirror.
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    I dont get too complicated about it. If ur carb sensitive, then eat 30% or less in carbs everyday. If not, eat 40% or more. Otherwise, the golden rule for myself is to feed my muscle. It is a matter of calories in/calories out to some degree, but that doesnt explain the body composition changes - only the total weight loss/gain.

    I'm assuming ur only wanting to lose fat...

    You can either cut calories below what ur currently expending or u can leave calories alone and do more work or w combination of both. Calories determine muscle mass. Caloric deficit must occur to have significant fat loss. So, I eat the same just do more work. It gets better results because it retains more muscle mass since my BMR didnt have to shrink down to my caloric intake. That simple. Its more work but better results. Keep calories high, keep BMR high. One hour of cardio daily added to a maintenance diet would net one lb of fat burned weekly.
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    I think I'm going to eat 200 below maintenace , add hiit cardio 20 mins eod in the am after shake and bcaa, and weights 4 times week training heavy . On cheat day I'll eat less cals in the day and treat in evening once a week
    This way I'm burning more but eating more to compensate too much loss
    Carbs still only around 100-150 mark around workouts tho I think ????
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    Had a week of eating normally not counting anything and even had couple drinks etc wknd . I needed it mentally and metabolism reasons I think
    Back on it Monday . I'm going to cut for another roughly 8 weeks and hopefully go from 14-10 with the extra cardio etc . No point bulking yet until I have abs . Just hoping I'm making right decision as muscles look flat , would love to bulk tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post
    I think I'm going to eat 200 below maintenace , add hiit cardio 20 mins eod in the am after shake and bcaa, and weights 4 times week training heavy . On cheat day I'll eat less cals in the day and treat in evening once a week
    This way I'm burning more but eating more to compensate too much loss
    Carbs still only around 100-150 mark around workouts tho I think ????
    Sounds decent. Steady Eddie wins the race when it comes to cutting properly without losing too much muscle mass. Generally, someone of you mass, might limit yourself to no more than 2lbs per week. I usually strive for just 1lb of weight loss per week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Sounds decent. Steady Eddie wins the race when it comes to cutting properly without losing too much muscle mass. Generally, someone of you mass, might limit yourself to no more than 2lbs per week. I usually strive for just 1lb of weight loss per week.
    Yes I think your right more effort physically and not so much dropping cals 600 below .
    I'm a plumber so sometimes I'm flat out n sometimes I sit in van all day lol . So cals is hard to judge.
    Keep wanting to bulk tho but I know ill end up at square one again 20 bodyfat .
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post

    Yes I think your right more effort physically and not so much dropping cals 600 below .
    I'm a plumber so sometimes I'm flat out n sometimes I sit in van all day lol . So cals is hard to judge.
    Keep wanting to bulk tho but I know ill end up at square one again 20 bodyfat .
    Make a strong effort to get below 10%. Lots of cardio alone can do it even with a shotty diet. Once u get low, ur body will lower its fat set point and u'll have a much harder time getting fat next bulk season. Nowadays, I can eat 500+g of carbs daily and still stay around 11-12% BF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Make a strong effort to get below 10%. Lots of cardio alone can do it even with a shotty diet. Once u get low, ur body will lower its fat set point and u'll have a much harder time getting fat next bulk season. Nowadays, I can eat 500+g of carbs daily and still stay around 11-12% BF.
    500g of carbs lol Jesus I'd love to do that .
    Yes I'm focused on 10% have been for months so goin to do it ! Determined . First time in my life lol
    Amazing what a misses and a first kid on the way does to your social drinking life lol.

    Gym gym gym .
    Looks like natural for me though . I may dabble with a course when I bulk but not too sure yet depends on bloods etc
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    Hiit cardio 4 times a week should be ok you think ? I'm guessing you do long duration cardio at lower heart rate
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post
    Hiit cardio 4 times a week should be ok you think ? I'm guessing you do long duration cardio at lower heart rate
    No, HIIT is best honestly. There r benefits to high intensity cardio that low intensity doesnt offer. Plus HIIT cardio tends to increase power and muscle if u do something like sprints.
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    Yea ok
    I got a cross trainer at home so ill do that eod before work in the am and weights on evening . I'll try and add sprints on a weekend

    Cheers mate been really helpful think I got it worked out ... Basically don't be lazy and rely on calories alone
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    if weightloss is slowing the best way to rev it back up is to cycle your calories and carbs. ive found the most effective for myself to be a 3-4 day split depending on what order your training days are in. for you id advise something like this :
    day 1- 2400cals 40% protein, 50% carbs, 10% fats
    day 2 - 2300cals 40% protein, 35% carbs, 25% fats
    day 3 - 1850cals 45% protein, 15% carbs, 45% fats
    day 4 - 1450cals 55% protein, 0% carbs, 45% fats (this should not be a training day, maybe a bit of LISS cardio if you feel like it)

    if you follow a cycle like this your leptin levels and other fat burning hormones as well as your metabolism will remain raised and keeps your body consistently guessing which stops it from acclimating to the deficient (while still remaining in a 500cal x 4 deficient between the 4 days combined) it also helps keep energy levels up and keeps you feeling sane having the high carb day every 4 days. also ive found that eating all my cals in an 8 hour window and fasting the rest of the day/night allows for better fat loss (it keeps insulin sensitivity up, also when you're going for longer periods of time without eating your body is not releasing insulin which because insulin is not present for such long periods keeps the body in a consistent state of burning fat and energy reserves)


    once you hit your fatloss goal this cycle remains great for bulking aswell but keeping fat gain down at the same time, just add 500-750 cals to each of the days
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lc3933 View Post
    if weightloss is slowing the best way to rev it back up is to cycle your calories and carbs. ive found the most effective for myself to be a 3-4 day split depending on what order your training days are in. for you id advise something like this : day 1- 2400cals 40% protein, 50% carbs, 10% fats day 2 - 2300cals 40% protein, 35% carbs, 25% fats day 3 - 1850cals 45% protein, 15% carbs, 45% fats day 4 - 1450cals 55% protein, 0% carbs, 45% fats (this should not be a training day, maybe a bit of LISS cardio if you feel like it) if you follow a cycle like this your leptin levels and other fat burning hormones as well as your metabolism will remain raised and keeps your body consistently guessing which stops it from acclimating to the deficient (while still remaining in a 500cal x 4 deficient between the 4 days combined) it also helps keep energy levels up and keeps you feeling sane having the high carb day every 4 days. also ive found that eating all my cals in an 8 hour window and fasting the rest of the day/night allows for better fat loss (it keeps insulin sensitivity up, also when you're going for longer periods of time without eating your body is not releasing insulin which because insulin is not present for such long periods keeps the body in a consistent state of burning fat and energy reserves) once you hit your fatloss goal this cycle remains great for bulking aswell but keeping fat gain down at the same time, just add 500-750 cals to each of the days
    Thanks mate
    Yes I looked into this , but it seems people use it at sub 10% . Maybe it would work . I had a week off last week , no gym and calories up around maintenance and above .
    I think I needed it for metabolism and mentally .

    The theory of more cardio as apprised to less calories ....cardio every other day 20 mins hiit in am, weights 4 x week and 200 below maintenance Is what I'm going to try , if I don't do cardio I'll just eat slightly less .
    Cheat day for me will be really high carb .
    The days when I'm training and not training will fluctuate between say 2300 /2200 plus cardio calories lost . So it's kinda cycling to some degree . Especially if I have say 150g carbs on training and 100 on non.

    My main goal is to keep muscle really . I don't care how long it take to lose 4-5% bodyfat
    I was eating 2000 cals a day and I look like I lost the muscle . Anabolics are the answere to some degree but it's a bad idea for me
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