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Ketosis and sleep.

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    Ketosis and sleep.


    I have been doing proper keto diet for 3 weeks now with less than 25g of carbs per day. Since starting that I've come down from 59kgs to just under 56 and must say I feel less bulky and the layer of fat that was covering my abs is pretty thin now.

    But what I have noticed is that my sleep patterns are terrible. I put myself to bed around 830 knowing that regardless of the time I go to bed I will still wake up at 230am and I wake up a couple of times during that time as well.

    I don't feel tired throughout the day or ever really - why is this diet changing my sleep patterns and do I need to worry about this lack of sleep?

    Also some tips on 'carbing up' would be great

    Pixie xx

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    I have been doing proper keto diet for 3 weeks now with less than 25g of carbs per day. Since starting that I've come down from 59kgs to just under 56 and must say I feel less bulky and the layer of fat that was covering my abs is pretty thin now.

    But what I have noticed is that my sleep patterns are terrible. I put myself to bed around 830 knowing that regardless of the time I go to bed I will still wake up at 230am and I wake up a couple of times during that time as well.

    I don't feel tired throughout the day or ever really - why is this diet changing my sleep patterns and do I need to worry about this lack of sleep?

    Also some tips on 'carbing up' would be great

    Pixie xx
    Not sure about the sleep issue but I would carb up once a week with healthy carbs, no junk. Looks up CKG, its keto with carb cycling (a carb up every week).
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    Okay thanks - I don't think I've carbed up properly over the last 3 weeks and weight loss has slowed to less than a kg In the past 7 days - maybe a good carb up will get my system burning again!
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    A kg is 2.2 lbs...that in a week is not slow at all. Unless you're obese, it's going to be extremely difficult to sustain that kind of pace. Congratulations because I know that takes hard work and determination but keep that in mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdb2 View Post
    A kg is 2.2 lbs...that in a week is not slow at all. Unless you're obese, it's going to be extremely difficult to sustain that kind of pace. Congratulations because I know that takes hard work and determination but keep that in mind
    True! They do say a pound a week - I always get confused with a kg a week.
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    I've actually found a keto diet really easy. Only thing that worries me is the small amount of sleep I'm getting.
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    Re-feed days are extremely important in resetting your fat-burning process. Have a good carb-up or cheat meal probably once per week to "reset" your system
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    Quote Originally Posted by 804 View Post
    Re-feed days are extremely important in resetting your fat-burning process. Have a good carb-up or cheat meal probably once per week to "reset" your system
    Thanks - I had a dessert last week would that be enough for a carb up or not really??
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    Thanks - I had a dessert last week would that be enough for a carb up or not really??
    I'm doing a similar program, and I've lost ~20 lbs since April. I usually do 20-40g/ carbs daily to remain in ketosis. Then once a week I eat a meal with about 100-150 carbs. to reset (not on a rest day). Also, about once a month (in place of that cheat meal) I binge eat around 300 carbs in a 2-3 hour window to reset. It took me a long time to figure out what works for my own body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 804 View Post

    I'm doing a similar program, and I've lost ~20 lbs since April. I usually do 20-40g/ carbs daily to remain in ketosis. Then once a week I eat a meal with about 100-150 carbs. to reset (not on a rest day). Also, about once a month (in place of that cheat meal) I binge eat around 300 carbs in a 2-3 hour window to reset. It took me a long time to figure out what works for my own body.
    Oh okay cool 20lbs - pretty good effort.
    Good guidelines there. I'm in my 4th week of getting leaner and will need to build some more muscle soon. What changes do you suggest there? Carbs post workout and otherwise keep eating keto?
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    The reason keto can mess with your sleep is due to serotonin. When you eat carbs serotonin is released. A lack of carbs can cause this to drop which can cause sleep disturbances until your body gets used to it.

    For me on a keto diet it was the worst about 9 weeks in once cals were decreased and cardio was increased. I literaly dreamed about carbs at night. It was pretty crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    The reason keto can mess with your sleep is due to serotonin. When you eat carbs serotonin is released. A lack of carbs can cause this to drop which can cause sleep disturbances until your body gets used to it.

    For me on a keto diet it was the worst about 9 weeks in once cals were decreased and cardio was increased. I literaly dreamed about carbs at night. It was pretty crazy.
    Haha yes my dreams have been getting pretty crazy!! Other night I'm just waking up regularly and waking at 2:30am each morning regardless of the time I go to bed.

    It's not bothering me but I do worry about the effects in cortisol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 804 View Post
    I'm doing a similar program, and I've lost ~20 lbs since April. I usually do 20-40g/ carbs daily to remain in ketosis. Then once a week I eat a meal with about 100-150 carbs. to reset (not on a rest day). Also, about once a month (in place of that cheat meal) I binge eat around 300 carbs in a 2-3 hour window to reset. It took me a long time to figure out what works for my own body.
    I'm doing something similar, except not quite keto. Lower carb during the week, and include a refeed on Sundays. In the past I used it an excuse to eat every single carb that was put in front of me, but the wasn't really optimal for me. Now I keep it around ~150/g and split that between 3 meals.

    @ pixie - Depends how your body handles carbs. Some people can get away with more carbs than others. You can try adding in sweet potatoes, rice, oatmeal, quinoa, etc. Keep fats on the lower end that day. Oh, and eating some dessert should be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    Oh okay cool 20lbs - pretty good effort. Good guidelines there. I'm in my 4th week of getting leaner and will need to build some more muscle soon. What changes do you suggest there? Carbs post workout and otherwise keep eating keto?
    If you want to keep your diet Lower carb to stay leaner while building, I would encourage carbs "periworkout" meaning directly before and after. Or you could look up carb cycling. lots of folks on here do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 804 View Post
    If you want to keep your diet Lower carb to stay leaner while building, I would encourage carbs "periworkout" meaning directly before and after. Or you could look up carb cycling. lots of folks on here do it.
    Yes I've tried carb cycling before and didn't really enjoy it. Where as with this keto diet I have so much energy and as long as I have coconut oil pre workout I have no struggles getting through my workout. However I am going to need to spike my insulin post work out if I want to build muscle right?
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    carb cycling is great, i do 2 low carb day (under 80 g of carbs) and 1 high carb day (200+g of carbs) when done right it works well however my diet has been complete crap these past two days . Also on low carb days, carbs are only directly pre and post workout so you arent sluggish when you are lifting/doing cardio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post
    carb cycling is great, i do 2 low carb day (under 80 g of carbs) and 1 high carb day (200+g of carbs) when done right it works well however my diet has been complete crap these past two days . Also on low carb days, carbs are only directly pre and post workout so you arent sluggish when you are lifting/doing cardio.
    When I was doing it id have a higher carb day on Thursday and Sunday but can't recall how many carbs I was having on my high carb days. and was only having carbs post workout on my low carb days. Might be something to touch on again when I need to mix it up a little
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    Would CLA be a good addition to my keto diet? I don't eat any dairy products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree
    Would CLA be a good addition to my keto diet? I don't eat any dairy products.
    Do you eat red meat?

    I would have a few carb meals on your carb up day. Due to your size I wouldn't go all out but definitely get enough to cause good spikes. It is going to take some carbs to restart the hormones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    Would CLA be a good addition to my keto diet? I don't eat any dairy products.
    I never saw anything specracular with CLA that warranted me to keep using it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post

    Do you eat red meat?

    I would have a few carb meals on your carb up day. Due to your size I wouldn't go all out but definitely get enough to cause good spikes. It is going to take some carbs to restart the hormones.
    I eat red meat but not sure if it grain or grass fed - something I should look into.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree

    I eat red meat but not sure if it grain or grass fed - something I should look into.
    Well I know in the US if it doesn't say that means its grain fed. But would still be good to check.

    If you are still eating red meat I wouldn't worry too much about cla. Unless you just have money to spend. Even then I would use it on other stuff first.
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    Yes you are probably right - got to be realistic with everything too. Being so specific in your diet really limits you which I don't think is that great for your lifestyle
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    3 more days and it's been 4 weeks of a strict keto diet. I did a re feed last night (Japanese - lots of rice and sushi) hoping it would help me get more sleep. Unfortunately I only got 2.5 hours and I'm now wide awake.

    Are there any suggestions of what I can do that might help? Other than supplement with 5htp to boost serotonin as its not pay day yet.

    Should I spend some more time carbing up today?

    Yesterday I had

    300g pineapple 22g carbs - pre workout
    Glucose jelly beans 60g carbs - pre workout
    3 cups of white rice sushi style 110g carbs - post workout

    Total 192g carbs

    Any advice would be much appreciated - sleep deprivation can't be good and got a big week ahead of me opening a new gym!!
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    carbs are your friend..
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    Why are carbs my friend? I look and feel so much better without them - if I could just get on top of the sleep I'd be great!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree
    Why are carbs my friend? I look and feel so much better without them - if I could just get on top of the sleep I'd be great!
    Maybe try something from Carb Back Loading and have your carbs at night. Especially on days you train. Will also help build muscle. Start off with small amounts to see how your respond.
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    Thanks tomahawk. I'm off to nz for 4 days tomorrow when I get back ill be changing it up to gain some muscle - was thinking carbs post workout and at night.... '
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    Thanks tomahawk. I'm off to nz for 4 days tomorrow when I get back ill be changing it up to gain some muscle - was thinking carbs post workout and at night.... '
    Nice have fun. That is what I am planning on doing for this week. It has been harder to sleep while being ultra low carb 4-6 days in a row. Hoping this week plus will help reset my internal clock a bit. Then go back on once a week Carb Nites to get rid of more fat.

    I think you will be safe experimenting with carbs post workout and at night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post

    Nice have fun. That is what I am planning on doing for this week. It has been harder to sleep while being ultra low carb 4-6 days in a row. Hoping this week plus will help reset my internal clock a bit. Then go back on once a week Carb Nites to get rid of more fat.

    I think you will be safe experimenting with carbs post workout and at night.
    Looking forward to some awesome seafood in nz haha - so good!!

    Yeah it's crazy how much it affects your sleep. No more than 2 or 3 hours at a time for me !!
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    have you tried any of the other common simple supplements like melatonin or zinc prebed? the 5htp can help, but melatonin is more direct.
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    No I haven't tried anything - ill try the carb thing then melatonin if the problem persists. Thanks for your input.
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    interesting thread, im on im on the same diet to lose last remaining fat, my sleeping patterns are **** aswell. what i noticed is my hands and feet felt cold alot of times i think its got to do with thyroid and metabolism slow down so i increased my carbs and felt better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulor32 View Post
    interesting thread, im on im on the same diet to lose last remaining fat, my sleeping patterns are **** aswell. what i noticed is my hands and feet felt cold alot of times i think its got to do with thyroid and metabolism slow down so i increased my carbs and felt better.
    Yeah I felt amazing on this diet and it amazing results also but I don't think I was doing
    The carb ups correctly which caused my sleep to get disrupted -

    Just wondering what the thoughts are on
    Post workout shakes? Would you of would you not have some carbs in your post workout shake to prevent muscle breakdown?

    I didn't add carbs post workout as I thought it would disrupt the ketosis however it felt wrong.
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    What did your carb ups look like?
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    To be honest you could hardly call them a carb up -

    I basically just had a cheat meal for lunch and dinner on saturdays which had more carbs in them.

    I do know how to do a better carb up - just didn't put much effort into it at that stage.

    Just curious about using carbs post workout to prevent muscle breakdown or do you not have carbs post workout as you'll disrupt ketosis?
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    I am not doing the keto diet anymore just working on getting more calories into my diet to
    Get some muscle gains. Was eating far too little for too long....

    Keto was by far the best diet I've used to get lean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree
    To be honest you could hardly call them a carb up -

    I basically just had a cheat meal for lunch and dinner on saturdays which had more carbs in them.

    I do know how to do a better carb up - just didn't put much effort into it at that stage.

    Just curious about using carbs post workout to prevent muscle breakdown or do you not have carbs post workout as you'll disrupt ketosis?
    Ya that was probably the issue. Not enough carbs to really replenish glycogen stores. Plus sounds like you possibly didn't eat enough period.

    You could do post workout carb shakes plus 1 meal with carbs. Might not be as effective at getting lean but should help build muscle. Basically what I have been doing.
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    Yeah I've just upped my calories and am using simple carbs around training times - feeling pretty good

    But technically in a keto diet when getting
    Lean is your goal you'd skip on the carbs til your carb up days. Different things for different goals
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree
    Yeah I've just upped my calories and am using simple carbs around training times - feeling pretty good

    But technically in a keto diet when getting
    Lean is your goal you'd skip on the carbs til your carb up days. Different things for different goals
    Unless you are trying to do it all at once
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