23yo girl wants a 6pack - help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF_2356 View Post
    Ok.

    Its good you got bloods done. They are hell expensive here in Sydney.

    Look into Rhodiola from woolworths (chill pill).

    Stay away from caffiene also. Lower abs in usually chronic elevation of cortisol which also decreases insulin sensitivity meaning more love handles.

    Train heavy, sprint, be smart with carbs, keep protein and fats in range, sleep and take your basic Supps as listed

    Also, SLEEP
    Good advice

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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Okay. A little off track.
    I'm saying strenght is mostly cns. I did NOT say you couldn't build strenght and muscle at the same time. I said they don't have to come at the same time. Ima leave this alone now. You seem to be getting a little heated haha.
    Yes, maybe a little. I agree that absolute strength might be CNS, but increasing strength over a rep range will produce more hypertrophy. a person who trains singles for 100, and only using singles will be slight bigger when he brings it up to 200. same applies to 5s or 10s. someone doing 10s will generally be a bit bigger then someone doing 5s and quite bigger then someone doing singles. But doing 5s may be easier to recover from and adapt to then doing 10s also and you can possibly get more hypertrophy that way.

    I didnt mean to get heated, I just saw a post and thought I could help this girl achieve her goals. a lot of people dont focus enough on overload and just wanted to add that in. Squats/deadlifts/press/bench/chins overload the whole muscular system and is a good place to start as she seems to be a newer trainee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    You can stay the same weight and up your squats +100 lbs. Same way you can train to do 1000 pull ups and be the same weight and same bodyfat. Takes time though. A lot of time. I will agree 6 to 12 reps is more stimulatory to hypertrophy but just because you can bench 3x your weight does not mean **** regarding staying leaner. Powerlifters in the 220 class are using so many drugs its not funny. 400lbs powerlifters are more likely to use less due to the sheer mass of them being built like hogs.

    Lets leave the paid athletes out of this and talk about the normal people. Can you get hella stronger without increasing weight? Yes.
    That's true but only to a point. If it were entirely true you'd have girls in the pl record books but you don't. They're all huge dudes.

    Which is to the point for the OP. Heavy lifting will not cause her muscles to get huge, because she's a girl and can't grow huge muscles. It will cause her muscles to have better definition and be a lot stronger, IOW 6 pack.

    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...%93-nutrition/

    BTW the author of that article, Molly Galbraith, is another one of the Girls Gone Strong founders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by compudog View Post

    That's true but only to a point. If it were entirely true you'd have girls in the pl record books but you don't. They're all huge dudes.

    Which is to the point for the OP. Heavy lifting will not cause her muscles to get huge, because she's a girl and can't grow huge muscles. It will cause her muscles to have better definition and be a lot stronger, IOW 6 pack.

    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...%93-nutrition/

    BTW the author of that article, Molly Galbraith, is another one of the Girls Gone Strong founders.
    I didn't say don't lift heavy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by compudog View Post
    That's true but only to a point. If it were entirely true you'd have girls in the pl record books but you don't. They're all huge dudes.

    Which is to the point for the OP. Heavy lifting will not cause her muscles to get huge, because she's a girl and can't grow huge muscles. It will cause her muscles to have better definition and be a lot stronger, IOW 6 pack.

    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...%93-nutrition/

    BTW the author of that article, Molly Galbraith, is another one of the Girls Gone Strong founders.
    Good article, doesn't just apply to females though
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    Good article, doesn't just apply to females though
    Did you actually read it? She's writing about her own experience. Ms. Galbraith is a coach but she's also a competitor. Here's an excerpt. Note the first person references.

    "Then, I like to eat a solid meal 1-2 hours after consuming my PWO shake. Sometimes this meal contains carbs, sometimes it doesn’t. This depends on my current diet. So, a quick example of my peri-workout nutrition might be:
    • 30-60 min prior: 5 g BCAAs, 1 scoop Metabolic Drive, 10 almonds, start sipping Surge Workout Fuel.
    • During Training: 5 g BCAAs, continue sipping Surge Workout Fuel
    • Immediately after Training: 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop Surge or 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop waxy maize starch
    • 1-2 Hours after PWO Meal: 5 oz grilled chicken, 2 cups broccoli, 6 oz sweet potato (optional) 2 tsp ol

    "
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    23yo girl wants a 6pack - help!


    Quote Originally Posted by compudog View Post
    Did you actually read it? She's writing about her own experience. Ms. Galbraith is a coach but she's also a competitor. Here's an excerpt. Note the first person references.

    "Then, I like to eat a solid meal 1-2 hours after consuming my PWO shake. Sometimes this meal contains carbs, sometimes it doesnít. This depends on my current diet. So, a quick example of my peri-workout nutrition might be:
    • 30-60 min prior: 5 g BCAAs, 1 scoop Metabolic Drive, 10 almonds, start sipping Surge Workout Fuel.
    • During Training: 5 g BCAAs, continue sipping Surge Workout Fuel
    • Immediately after Training: 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop Surge or 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop waxy maize starch
    • 1-2 Hours after PWO Meal: 5 oz grilled chicken, 2 cups broccoli, 6 oz sweet potato (optional) 2 tsp ol

    "
    Aside from the tiny meals and such, i agree with bcaa's pre and intra, and a shake post.
    Other than her first person references, what about that excerpt screams 'female' ?
    And i have no clue what Surge is, so if that is a lady supp then whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    I didn't say don't lift heavy.
    I didn't mean to imply you did, it was just an aside for the OP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    Aside from the tiny meals and such, i agree with bcaa's pre and intra, and a shake post.
    Other than her first person references, what about that excerpt screams 'female' ?
    And i have no clue what Surge is, so if that is a lady supp then whatever.
    Molly Galbraith wrote the article. She used the word "I", so it's sensible to assume she's referring to herself, and it's also sensible to assume she's female. It's stated, explicitly. It's not screamed though. Do you require that before you can hear something?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodbar0 View Post

    What were your thyroid levels, and how did your bloodwork determine "slightly sluggish" adrenals?
    I would have to get a copy of my blood work but from memory

    Thyroid TSH was almost 2.5. Started treating it as it used to be lower. Test again in a few months to check that's its not going the wrong way.

    He didn't go into much detail about sluggish adrenals but put it down to them working overtime to compensate the slower thyroid. I did have cortisol tested but not sure what the levels were here which may contribute to sluggish adrenals??
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    One way to spike your metabolism is refeeds. I suggest doing a refeed *adding 100 to 500 Cal's* once a week. This lets your body know there's plenty of fuel. Boost leptin, boost thyroid,ect ect. I hear a lot of "change your diet" in this thread. Why not just give the one you've been using a boost? Can come from carbs or w/e. Sense you're wanting ABS I suggest the refeed on a day you do ABS.
    Thanks pyrobatt - the general consensus I got was to add a few carbs in or refeed with the addition of some hit and fasted cardio + heavy ab work & compound movements....

    Would you say refeed pre or post ab workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    There is nothing wrong with using Clen if one so choose's but that is a personal choice, now that being said you might look into 3,3 diiodo-l-thyronine it does not seem to cause as much suppression of the thyroid from anecdotal evidence and falls in the supplement realm instead of research chemicals. Thyrocaps by SNS I am a big proponent of thyroid hormones myself especial in a case like yours where you have been operating in a caloric deficit for so long.

    Also I may have missed it in this thread but carb cycling might be worth a try for you.
    I've started to carb cycle a little since I've been on anabolicminds. Made me realise that this low calorie diet cannot be good long term without some sort of boost which is also important for muscle growth.
    Which I should have known but wasn't putting much effort into actual muscle growth and focusing on fat loss. Which now I think that would be the better thing to focus on.

    Will check out those supps - am just on acombo iodine/selenium tablets.

    Do you believe a slow thyroid comes from undereating?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterbottle45 View Post
    going to agree with those who recommended squats/deadlifts/standing presses/chins/bench, focus on progressive overload and strength while maintaining your body mass. Get your squats/deadlifts up to 1.5x body weight and you will be much leaner. You should be able to do this in a year. Remember a stronger muscle, is usually a bigger muscle. I recommend starting strength program.

    Also for macros I would say get in about 150g of high quality protein (animal sources or whey) spread evenly in approx 4-5 doses through the day, with about 3.5-4h between meals, and a minimum of approx 100g Carbs (white rice/sweet potatoes/potatoes) and about 40-50g Fats, keep measures weekly and adjust +/- 5-10g carbs /5g fat based on your results, (if losing weight increase to maintain it, if gaining a little bit then decrease it)
    Thankyou for a very specific macro breakdown.
    Alot of the advice is to work on lifting heavier whilst still working in the hypertrophy range. a goal of 1.5 bodyweight would be quite a challenge!!

    I believe you'll always get a little hypertrophy from strength training due to new muscle tears etc however if hypertrophy is my goal maybe it's better to just work on hypertrophy....

    Maybe add a couple of strength sets into the work out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post

    Thanks pyrobatt - the general consensus I got was to add a few carbs in or refeed with the addition of some hit and fasted cardio + heavy ab work & compound movements....

    Would you say refeed pre or post ab workout?
    Post. Less chance of fat gain. Infact will probably help the bodypart trained that day. For me its shoulder day when I refeed. This will refuel your glycogyn stores too which will make the next 1 or 2 workouts feel better haha.

    If you're doing keto don't add carbs. Opt for protien. Otherwise go ahead. I got some great sugar free cookies I use.

    Also alphamine seems to be the new kid on the block. Some say its a good alternative to ephedrine. Alpha receptor antagonist like yohimbine will help prevent fat gain and lose some. These are in alphamine. Safe for females too!
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    Must look into this alphamine and if it's avail in Australia. Everything useful is banned here.

    Abs for me today and had planned a bit of a cheat meal at my favourite Japanese place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    Must look into this alphamine and if it's avail in Australia. Everything useful is banned here.

    Abs for me today and had planned a bit of a cheat meal at my favourite Japanese place.
    Alphamine!!!

    We carry a eu version that should be available to you.
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    Ah okay cool - how do I get some?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    Ah okay cool - how do I get some?
    Pescience dot com

    Or google search alphamine suppliers in aus. Should find some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift View Post

    Pescience dot com

    Or google search alphamine suppliers in aus. Should find some.
    Awesome thankyou
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post

    Awesome thankyou
    Not a problem at all. You are very welcome!
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    To offer more advice I can typically see a huge improvement with continued low carb days with a carb up here and there. I really didn't find my 6 pack until I included 15-20 minutes of AB work 5-6 times a week. They are a pain for people who don't naturally have them at low bf.

    Best of luck op!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterbottle45 View Post

    Yes, maybe a little. I agree that absolute strength might be CNS, but increasing strength over a rep range will produce more hypertrophy. a person who trains singles for 100, and only using singles will be slight bigger when he brings it up to 200. same applies to 5s or 10s. someone doing 10s will generally be a bit bigger then someone doing 5s and quite bigger then someone doing singles. But doing 5s may be easier to recover from and adapt to then doing 10s also and you can possibly get more hypertrophy that way.

    I didnt mean to get heated, I just saw a post and thought I could help this girl achieve her goals. a lot of people dont focus enough on overload and just wanted to add that in. Squats/deadlifts/press/bench/chins overload the whole muscular system and is a good place to start as she seems to be a newer trainee.
    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    I didn't say don't lift heavy.
    Re your guys pissing contest, you guys forget o consider what makes up a muscle, muscle fibers in particular, and which rep ranges stimulate which muscle fibers. Types 1 2a and 2b. the rep ranges you work in determines which type of fibers you target. You can gain strength without size by targeting lower rep ranges 1-5 or target the hypertrophy rep ranges of 8-12.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post

    Re your guys pissing contest, you guys forget o consider what makes up a muscle, muscle fibers in particular, and which rep ranges stimulate which muscle fibers. Types 1 2a and 2b. the rep ranges you work in determines which type of fibers you target. You can gain strength without size by targeting lower rep ranges 1-5 or target the hypertrophy rep ranges of 8-12.
    Hypertrophy can be seen lower and higher than the aforementioned numbers. Not what the discussion was about.
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    Hypertrophy has been examined at the 6-8 rep range
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    Hypertrophy can be seen lower and higher than the aforementioned numbers. Not what the discussion was about.
    Those numbers were only an example, but what i said directly correlates into the topic of discussion which was muscle strength and size. The strength of a muscle is dependent on what type of muscle fibers the muscle is made up of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwai Chang View Post
    Women can't develop "Six Packs Abs Periods"!! Sorry Babe! A nice flat tight abdominal area I would want to eat a meal off of such an exquisite part of a female's anatomy. Besides the other parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Women can have 4,6and even 8 pacs. Its all genetics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Women can have 4,6and even 8 pacs. Its all genetics.
    I must 2nd this...with wtf where did you get the idea that females cant have 6 packs?

    In before abstract new age pseudoscience reference.
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    Haha me too....

    What are some really good compound exercises I can add to my programme??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwai Chang View Post
    Women can't develop "Six Packs Abs Periods"!! Sorry Babe! A nice flat tight abdominal area I would want to eat a meal off of such an exquisite part of a female's anatomy. Besides the other parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I've seen plenty!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwai Chang View Post
    Show me one female bodybuilder right now with a "Six Pack"!! GTFO!!! LOL
    I'd say she has one
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwai Chang View Post
    LMAO! You go honey!
    I think it's a bit much but just proof that women can - if you're not here to be helpful then why are you here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post

    I think it's a bit much but just proof that women can - if you're not here to be helpful then why are you here?
    He's a troll.

    Don't mind him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post

    I'd say she has one
    I normally don't comment on pics here but wow
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF_2356 View Post

    I normally don't comment on pics here but wow
    She is pretty phenomenal!!
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    Ugh... She looks like a man... It is so decidedly not feminine to be that lean, both from an aesthetic and health viewpoint. The media is blurring the lines of what constitutes femininity and masculinity. Women trying to look like teenage male football players, men wearing skinny jeans and crying along to the Hallmark channel... I'm going to venture to say that men that find women that look like the "lady" in that picture attractive have sexual preference/identity issues.

    But in the end, it is your body. So to answer your question regarding compound lifts that will help the abdominal region, deadlift, front squats, Zercher squats, power cleans, chin ups/pull ups. Kettlebell complexes are amazing as well, if you are looking for a time efficient solution. Doing KB complexes correctly is incredibly challenging, definitely not for the faint hearted lol. KB front squats will beat the hell out of your abdominals and make your entire midsection strong as hell, as will Turkish get ups, especially if you use an Oly bar. Ditto for windmills.

    Test them out and see what works for you.
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    I agree with you in the line between being too lean to the point of manly and she is too muscly for my likings - but an amazing achievement on her part. Must have taken alot if hard work.

    I will look up those exercises
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01 View Post
    it would be easyer to analyze if we had a few pics
    Perv
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post
    I agree with you in the line between being too lean to the point of manly and she is too muscly for my likings - but an amazing achievement on her part. Must have taken alot if hard work.

    I will look up those exercises
    From the looks of it you have a nice 6 pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiethree View Post

    She is pretty phenomenal!!
    Yes...if she can ATG squat, that's even better.
    ...::: EBF REP :::...
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