Not sure which direction to go, need guidance
09-25-2012 09:53 PM
Not sure which direction to go, need guidance
I'm your typical lurk around the forum for years and do some gym and some failed diets and never really get anywhere type of guy. I could talk for an hour straight on exercise science and nutrition, I'm a biomedical scientist and I'm studying medicine, but that all counts for naught because in the past for various reasons and excuses I've been unable to make good results in the gym. I will say my genetics are pretty bad: my whole family gains muscle difficult, fat easy, and loses muscle easy. I know that genetics are not a limiting factor, but I do know that I need to be well disciplined and persistent to overcome my natural body type (skinny fat)
Anyhow: I had always been skinny fat and was on an endless bulk for years and years. I always viewed myself as skinny, so it was a surprise to me one day when I saw of photo of me on the beach and realised I look chubby. I thought I had just been 'filling out' finally. I estimate at this point I was 22-24% bodyfat, or somewhere thereabouts. Not fat, but definitely not lean or anywhere close.
Anyhow, I signed on to an 8km run, a 10km run and tough mudder. I've completed all three, and lost about 25lbs. I estimate my bodyfat to now be about 15%-16% (top abs starting to sneak through). However I am 6 foot 3 and weight only 175lbs. Despite all my years of 'bulking' I seem to have not much muscle under all the fat and now I'm getting leaner I am looking quite skinny.
So now I'm not sure what to do: Keep cutting (maybe do PSMF?) till I reach 10% and then bulk? If so I am going to look like a skeleton at 10% (well not a skeleton, but pretty damn skinny). Which doesn't excite me much.
If I try and bulk I face the possibility of ending up toward 20% again. That doesn't excite me either.
I'm not confident in my ability to recomp.
Any ideas? Should I just bite the bullet and cut further, even if I look like a waifer?
p.s I know have a collection in injuries from all the training/running/mudder- I'm off running for now on Docs orders
09-26-2012 09:31 AM
I believe persistence is key! Do you lift or are you on a program of some sort? Injuries should not be worked through, but if you can, maybe there are some exercises you can do to work around the issues, depending on what those issues are. As far as bulking, I know some of the guys will say to eat, eat, and lift heavy. I'm no expert on bulking so I'm sure a fellow A.M. member can chime in on that. I don't know your family background, but I will say I come from a family of athletic brothers who all played sports and are in shape. I was the total opposite, but I am working on that by dialing in on my diet and lifting.
Originally Posted by quigley
09-27-2012 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by gokix811
I'm usually lifting to some degree, but the past 3 months has been more cardio focused to prepare for the races and mudder. Now that's all finished I'm just sort of maintaining, eating at maintenance and lifting 4 times a week (upper, lower, upper, lower)
What I'm not sure is whether I shouldn't waste time cutting any more below 15% as I don't have much muscle, and go straight to a bulk, or cut down to 10-12% and look very skinny before starting a bulk. When I know which of these paths to take, I'll do more research on specific programs for that goal, whether it be a cut or bulk.
09-30-2012 12:55 AM
well, didn't get much in the way of guidance but I suppose that's fair enough.
Anyway, I pretty much tossed a coin and have decided to cut down to 10-12% (abs clearly visible) before bulking. Whilst I expect to look quite skinny at the end, at least I can begin bulking for a lean base and try to avoid blowing out fat wise.
I've been thinking about doing a PSMF such as the one described in the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook by lyle McDonald
Reasons: Works quickly, backed by research, simple to follow.
The more complicated a diet, the less I adhere. Some of it is laziness, but another part also practical. I'm a student living with family and don't have the money nor control over diet to really go nuts which achieving x % fat x % carbs etc. That's why I'm attracted to PSMF - its only protein, which is simple, and easy to do, if very hard (that I don't mind)
Any thoughts? I might make a log here and post some photos up.
10-03-2012 08:10 AM
Well whether you bulk or cut your diet is the key. For a decent program to start off look up strong lifts 5x5.
What's your stats etc age height weight? I can work out your BMR for you and give you a kcal number to aim for on lifting days non lifting days and a macro breakdown of where you want your kcals to cone from.
A PSMF is pretty extreme and should only be done for a few weeks. Any longer and your cortisol will skyrocket and you will break down your muscle proteins for fuel. Look up carb cycling, clinical keto diet or intermittent fasting. My preference is IF. Works wonders and makes life so easy.
10-03-2012 09:31 PM
Thanks for the advice Luke,
I've done IF and PSMF before and have a fair knowledge of carb cycling and keto.
I'm 6 foot 2, 81kg, approx 15% bf. Long term goal is 85kg at 9-10%
I'm thinking of using IF (2000 calories WO days, 1500 non workout) to get down to 12-13% then use a 10 day PSMF to try and get toward 10-11%. When i previously did IF i think I was too liberal (i was bulking) and ending up blowing out to 22% bf. But I'm sure I can dial it down better this time.
Lifting wise been thinking of doing an upper lower split 2x per week.
10-04-2012 04:20 AM
No worries man i know how you feel my body wants to be tiny lol.
Originally Posted by quigley
Why don't you stick with one diet and see it through? If IF is working why change to a psmf?
10-04-2012 04:38 AM
I think maybe a drastic change in workout styles and programs would make a big help.
What does your workouts look like now?
try making rest periods shorter, do HIIT cardio at the end of your workout after doing the weights. That helps me.
Also there are some great new workouts I have tried and loved them very challenging as well.
Look into crossfit, also one I did just recently was Kris Gethin's DTP program. Awesome gruling workouts.
I also do the carb loading days and then drop carbs down on my burn days . I can tell in mirror in just a few days doing this.
OK so what does your supplement stack look like?
Have you or are you currently running a test booster?
Test booster will not only help build muscle it will aid in fat burning as well, stack that with AI and you have a great combo.
I think you should try the DTP program with some DAA and a AI or your choosing.
Not sure if any of this helps but I hope so.
Here is my loghttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/216779-bigguy-vs-wilpit.htmlhttp://supplementreviews.com/users/mhseaver670/reviews
10-04-2012 06:09 AM
Good question... I guess I just see PSMF as a quick way to finish off a cut. IF seems to be more slow and steady, a good way to cut down initially. I was anticipating a plateau around 12-13% and thought PSMF might be a good way to bust the law few % out. But I take your point, and will stick with IF unless there is a good reason to do otherwise.
Originally Posted by Lukef2000
Thanks for the advice,
Originally Posted by bigguyn10ec
My previous workouts were as follows
Bench press 3x 6-10
Pull ups 3x failure
Incline dumbell press 2x 6-10
cable row 2x 6-10
skullcrushers 3x 10-15
lateral raise 3x 10-15
weighed fitball curls 3x 10-15
somedays I would also add a few curls in
Squat 3 x 6-10
Deadlift 2x 5-8
Legpress 3 x 15-20
Hamstring curls 2 x 15-20
Calf raises 3 x 15-20
Typical week Mon Upper, Tuesday Lower, Thursday Upper, Fri Lower
Just using protein powder ATM. My test levels are middle of the road, not high or low. I would definitely like a decent stack, but I'm not certain I believe in the clinical efficacy of any natural test boosters. Perhaps DAA but not certain even about that. It seems ph or aas are the only real way to to boost test, and that stuff is hard to get in AUS. Not sure I'd need a AI with a natty test booster?
Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate it.
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