How much of an impact does cardio and/or weightlifting have on weight loss?

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    How much of an impact does cardio and/or weightlifting have on weight loss?


    Not much it looks like

    Effect of dietary adherence with or without exercise on weight loss: a mechanistic approach to a global problem

    Abstract

    CONTEXT:


    Weight loss using low-calorie diets produces variable results, presumably due to a wide range of energy deficits and low-dietary adherence.

    OBJECTIVE:


    Our objective was to quantify the relationship between dietary adherence, weight loss, and severity of caloric restriction.

    DESIGN AND SETTING:


    Participants were randomized to diet only, diet-endurance training, or diet-resistance training until body mass index (BMI) was less than 25 kg/m(2).
    PARTICIPANTS:

    Healthy overweight (BMI 27-30) premenopausal women (n = 141) were included in the study. Interventions: An 800-kcal/d(-1) diet was provided, and the exercise groups were engaged in three sessions per week.
    MAIN OUTCOMES:

    Dietary adherence, calculated from total energy expenditure determined by doubly labeled water measurements and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry body composition changes, and degree of caloric restriction were determined.

    RESULTS:


    All groups had similar weight loss (approximately 12.1 +/- 2.5 kg) and length of time to reach target BMI (approximately 158 +/- 70 d). Caloric restriction averaged 59 +/- 9%, and adherence to diet was 73 +/- 34%. Adherence to diet was inversely associated to days to reach target BMI (r = -0.687; P < 0.01) and caloric restriction (r = -0.349; P < 0.01). Association between adherence to diet and percent weight lost as fat was positive for the diet-endurance training (r = 0.364; P < 0.05) but negatively correlated for the diet-only group (r = -0.387; P < 0.05).

    CONCLUSIONS:

    Dietary adherence is strongly associated with rates of weight loss and adversely affected by the severity of caloric restriction. Weight loss programs should consider moderate caloric restriction relative to estimates of energy requirements, rather than generic low-calorie diets.

    PMID: 19258409
    And once again, diet < training with regards to fat loss and also another jab at the flawed idea of the "calorie in vs calorie out" mantra
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Not much it looks like



    And once again, diet < training with regards to fat loss and also another jab at the flawed idea of the "calorie in vs calorie out" mantra
    Hm...Explain...do you really believe this? I mean the study is there and it proves it. But...can we break mantra's like this easily?...Hm...
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    Association between adherence to diet and percent weight lost as fat was positive for the diet-endurance training (r = 0.364; P < 0.05) but negatively correlated for the diet-only group (r = -0.387; P < 0.05).
    In my experience I loose more fat when my deficit comes from increased energy expenditure over increased caloric restriction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    In my experience I loose more fat when my deficit comes from increased energy expenditure over increased caloric restriction.
    Hm...I could say this too for myself I guess, Burned more fat when I was eating Maintenance kCals but doing cardio for 500-600kCals so that became the deficit.

    Is this what you mean Mr. Dunn?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Hm...Explain...do you really believe this? I mean the study is there and it proves it. But...can we break mantra's like this easily?...Hm...

    To be fair "proves" is a strong word. I do not really believe things can be necessarily "proven". However what I do believe is things can be demonstrated and observed and thats what we have here. 3 days of exercise did squat WRT increasing weight loss while dieting

    Now are ideas such as this easy to break? Hell no! Look at the idea of dietary cholesterol significantly impacting serum cholesterol.. This idea still is prevalent and accepted as fact despite the complete lack of evidence to support it.

    And yes IMO thinking that weight loss is as simple as "calories in vs calories out" is beyond flawed logic. Thinking in these terms completely ignores other factors such as the metabolic consequences of various macronutrients. Ultimately, humans are not bomb calorimeters. We dont live in test tubes.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    In my experience I loose more fat when my deficit comes from increased energy expenditure over increased caloric restriction.
    First on the part you highlighted, yes one group lost more but how significant was it? Not much at all.

    Basically what I am seeing in the above is that adding 3 days of exercise on top of a diet deficit would result in a rate of weight loss that is pretty comparable to someone who did the same diet and just sat on their hands all day.

    And to clarify, what I am saying is that adding cardio or weight training on top of a calorie deficit will not yield a significant increase in weight loss over dieting alone. IMO, when one is dieting (in a deficit) the purpose of weight training should be to preserve lean body mass and not to increase the rate of fat loss.

    That said, I think it would be interesting to see a study that pitted one group who created a deficit by cardio and ate at calorie maintenance vs. one group who did not perform cardio and created the deficit by diet alone. So we will have creating deficit by increased expenditure vs. creating deficit by diet.

    Also I would like to make clear, I am not anti cardio and am not suggesting that people dont do cardio as there are plenty of health benefits gained from cardio. All i am saying is if you want to loose weight and are already in a calorie deficit, adding extra cardio wont make much of a difference.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    This study relates to WEIGHT LOSS....not FAT LOSS.


    Worthless IMO. Most people here (or at least they SHOULD BE) care about fat loss while preserving muscle.....
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    What I have understood from the article is....

    The three groups consumed the same amount of calories but expended different amounts so had varying calorific deficits. The two groups that had more 'calories out', ie exercised, did not lose any more weight despite having a larger net deficit than the group that engaged in no exercise. Whilst the same weight was lost, the endurance group lost fat and the diet only group presumably lost muscle. So by that rationale exercising does make a difference to body composition by ensuring the weight loss is mostly fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherone55 View Post
    This study relates to WEIGHT LOSS....not FAT LOSS.
    yes this is true and I will admit it would have been a whole lot better if BF% was measured.. Maybe in the full text (but I doubt it)

    QUOTE=theotherone55;3556769]
    Worthless IMO. Most people here (or at least they SHOULD BE) care about fat loss while preserving muscle.....[/QUOTE]

    Thats what is essentiall what I said a couple post up WRT preserving lbm

    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    What I have understood from the article is....

    The three groups consumed the same amount of calories but expended different amounts so had varying calorific deficits. The two groups that had more 'calories out', ie exercised, did not lose any more weight despite having a larger net deficit than the group that engaged in no exercise.
    to be fair they did loose more, just not a significent amount over diet alone

    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Whilst the same weight was lost, the endurance group lost fat and the diet only group presumably lost muscle. So by that rationale exercising does make a difference to body composition by ensuring the weight loss is mostly fat.
    you cant really just assume (only observe) but I tend to agree with you





    You guys are missing my point. Countless times on this board (and others) you will see a thread by an individual asking what is the best workout for fat loss. Or you will see someone asking about loosing fat and/or help speeding up their fat loss and these threads are usually full of responses telling them they need to do cardio "x" amount of days for "x" amount of time to or that "x"workout will burn fat faster and so forth. My point is that when you are already in a calorie deficit and trying to loose weight, adding cardio is not going to result in a significent difference so there is no need to be running on a treadmill 5 times a week (which is often what one would do in hopes of speeding up te raye of weight loss).

    Read post #5 again. I clearly say that the purpose of exercise when one is in a deficit is to maintain lbm and not to speed up the weight loss.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    I wonder though, if this translates to us, healthy, and speaking for myself, not overweight (although my BMI would suggest obesity) men/woman. Us (or some/most) who are reasonable conditioned and at there bodyfat setpoint may have a completely different response or lack there of...no?
    Healthy overweight (BMI 27-30) premenopausal women (n = 141) were included in the study. Interventions: An 800-kcal/d(-1) diet was provided, and the exercise groups were engaged in three sessions per week.
    ...although I am premenopausal
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    Another one -http://scholarsresearchlibrary.com/A...-2636-2641.pdf

    Here we see that adding 12 weeks of HIIT training compared to the control group resulted in barely a difference with regards to their weight.

    Although it is important to note the difference in their metabolic changes are going to have a significant impact on their health and overall goals (help set them up for future fat loss) but this is more of an argument in support of HITT over LISS and not a suggestion that cardio significantly increases weight loss over diet alone
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    yes this is true and I will admit it would have been a whole lot better if BF% was measured.. Maybe in the full text (but I doubt it)

    QUOTE=theotherone55;3556769]
    Worthless IMO. Most people here (or at least they SHOULD BE) care about fat loss while preserving muscle.....
    Thats what is essentiall what I said a couple post up WRT preserving lbm



    to be fair they did loose more, just not a significent amount over diet alone



    you cant really just assume (only observe) but I tend to agree with you





    You guys are missing my point. Countless times on this board (and others) you will see a thread by an individual asking what is the best workout for fat loss. Or you will see someone asking about loosing fat and/or help speeding up their fat loss and these threads are usually full of responses telling them they need to do cardio "x" amount of days for "x" amount of time to or that "x"workout will burn fat faster and so forth. My point is that when you are already in a calorie deficit and trying to loose weight, adding cardio is not going to result in a significent difference so there is no need to be running on a treadmill 5 times a week (which is often what one would do in hopes of speeding up te raye of weight loss).

    Read post #5 again. I clearly say that the purpose of exercise when one is in a deficit is to maintain lbm and not to speed up the weight loss.[/QUOTE]

    I get you're point. It was just that I understood part of the study slightly differently. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, seen as I've not been a science student for over a decade. Doesn't this sentence mean that the diet-endurance group lost more fat than the diet only group?

    Association between adherence to diet and percent weight lost as fat was positive for the diet-endurance training (r = 0.364; P < 0.05) but negatively correlated for the diet-only group (r = -0.387; P < 0.05).

    If so, then doesn't adding in exercise increase the rate of fat loss albeit not weight loss? I may have completely misread the sentence.
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