please help me with my keto diet!

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    please help me with my keto diet!


    been lifting for 3 years and not once have i EVER had a six pack and for the past 2 months i have been completely determined to get one.

    started out the cut pretty chubby at 200lbs, coming off of what was basicly a 10 month bulk and did a strict keto diet and lost about 15 pounds in the first month (mostly fat and water i think, but also quite a bit of muscle), but since then my fat loss came to a SCREECHING halt and havent lost any more since.... so now to try to boost my metabolism and stop losing muscle i started doing carb ups weekly. i think im at 15% bodyfat right now.

    my daily diet is:
    chicken/tuna
    5 whole eggs
    egg whites (like 3/4 carton per day)
    varous cheeses (gouda/ pepperjack)
    and a little bacon every once in a while
    2 scoops protein powder daily

    all adding up to 1600 calories and on days im really hungry 1800 cals, and around 230-250gProtein because its real hard for me to hold on to muscle and ive lost a lot of strength (like 40lbs down on shrugs and squats and lik 10-20lbs on deadlift)

    for carb ups i eat about 600 carbs for one day from apple cider, steel cut oats, rice, whole grain bread, and potatoes

    its really important i get down to low bodyfat because i took a well praised and trusted test booster which ending up giving me a bunch of CHEST FAT (not glandular gyno as far as i can tell) but really it just looks terrible everytime i look in the mirror i get pissed and im trying so hard to get it to go away and i think getting low bodyfat is the only way to do it cus NONE of the fat ive already lost came off of my chest at all, its still f*ckin there! please help me

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    Honestly? I'd drop doing keto, and go with a standard restricted calorie diet, just try to keeps carbs complex and not super high.
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    well i thought about that, and maybe my body just isn't meant for keto, but from what i've gathered searching around the internet and forums is a lot of people SWEAR that its the only way they can get really lean WHILE maintaining muscle, and that most people who are really lean do some variation of low carb/keto/carb cycling

    so, have you yourself ever gotten single digit bodyfat with a moderate carb intake (i.e. 80-100 grams or more) without muscle loss?
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91
    well i thought about that, and maybe my body just isn't meant for keto, but from what i've gathered searching around the internet and forums is a lot of people SWEAR that its the only way they can get really lean WHILE maintaining muscle, and that most people who are really lean do some variation of low carb/keto/carb cycling

    so, have you yourself ever gotten single digit bodyfat with a moderate carb intake (i.e. 80-100 grams or more) without muscle loss?
    Carbs are anti catabolic by nature. Calorie restriction should.get you there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    well i thought about that, and maybe my body just isn't meant for keto, but from what i've gathered searching around the internet and forums is a lot of people SWEAR that its the only way they can get really lean WHILE maintaining muscle, and that most people who are really lean do some variation of low carb/keto/carb cycling

    so, have you yourself ever gotten single digit bodyfat with a moderate carb intake (i.e. 80-100 grams or more) without muscle loss?
    no, i've never seen single digits no matter what. but i'm 44, lazy, undisciplined, don't do cardio, with 3 kids, 4 dogs and I like to drink. I got to around 11% while not using keto though.

    Yes, carb cycling can help a lot, but although many people swear by keto, there isn't a single scientific study that shows better muscle retention with keto vs a conventional diet. keto seems to work well for some mentally as they can still get in what would normally be "guilty pleasures" on the diet. 4 whole eggs plus 4 slices of bacon vs 8 egg whites and a cup of oatmeal. Which feels like a diet, which feels like a damn good breakfast? but that doesn't make it more effective. But keep in mind carb cycling can be low days of 50-75g and high days of 150-200g. That would help with your strength/performance issues.

    Also actually looking at your menu again, you understand that to truly be in keto, you need to keep protein relatively low and the rest of calories made up by fats? It looks like your diet is primarily proteins, and if they are too high your body converts the protein to glucose anyhow through gluconeogenesis. at 185, you probably should be no higher than 150g protein a day. And from your food list honestly if you are eating 250g protein, I don't see the 80-90g of fat to make what you say you get as daily total, unless its a lot of cheese.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, i've never seen single digits no matter what. but i'm 44, lazy, undisciplined, don't do cardio, with 3 kids, 4 dogs and I like to drink. I got to around 11% while not using keto though.

    Yes, carb cycling can help a lot, but although many people swear by keto, there isn't a single scientific study that shows better muscle retention with keto vs a conventional diet. keto seems to work well for some mentally as they can still get in what would normally be "guilty pleasures" on the diet. 4 whole eggs plus 4 slices of bacon vs 8 egg whites and a cup of oatmeal. Which feels like a diet, which feels like a damn good breakfast? but that doesn't make it more effective. But keep in mind carb cycling can be low days of 50-75g and high days of 150-200g. That would help with your strength/performance issues.

    Also actually looking at your menu again, you understand that to truly be in keto, you need to keep protein relatively low and the rest of calories made up by fats? It looks like your diet is primarily proteins, and if they are too high your body converts the protein to glucose anyhow through gluconeogenesis. at 185, you probably should be no higher than 150g protein a day. And from your food list honestly if you are eating 250g protein, I don't see the 80-90g of fat to make what you say you get as daily total, unless its a lot of cheese.
    oh ok i guess i saw ur picture and just thought you were some super ripped guy with veins everywhere lol

    and wow i feel stupid now that you told me that about my fat intake, i just realized i looked at the 'calories from fat' content of the eggs instead of the actual 'total fat', which means im only getting like 30g's a day at best! my fault, my fault

    although i really don't wanna go below 180-200g of protein, cause i'm pretty sure ill lose muscle?
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    Then probably keto isn't your best bet, as you may not make it into ketosis at that level
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    yea i think im gonna add some fat and lower my protein then see how that works out for a week or 2, thanks bud
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    It seems like you know how to eat healthy and add up your calories. I'd look into intermittent fasting if you really want to drop bodyfat %. Alot of people on this forum use it and now that I have been on it for almost 2 months I don't think I will ever go back.
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    as a matter of fact i started doing IF WITH the keto on and off for the past month and did not notice too much of an effect of the supposed 'boost in growth hormone' that attracted me to it, but it could've been because i was getting too much protein and not enough fat.

    but it seems like everyone everywhere is swearing by it now so there has to be something good about it
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    as a matter of fact i started doing IF WITH the keto on and off for the past month and did not notice too much of an effect of the supposed 'boost in growth hormone' that attracted me to it, but it could've been because i was getting too much protein and not enough fat.

    but it seems like everyone everywhere is swearing by it now so there has to be something good about it
    Were you following the 3 days of lifting 4 days of rest days/cardio days? This is what I am doing, low carbs higher fats on rest/cardio days with a calorie deficit and eat around maitenence or 10% surplus on lifting days with higher carbs and lower fats, fasted cardio in the mornings. I only make me eating window a few hours then I fast 16-20 hours a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmarin18 View Post
    Were you following the 3 days of lifting 4 days of rest days/cardio days? This is what I am doing, low carbs higher fats on rest/cardio days with a calorie deficit and eat around maitenence or 10% surplus on lifting days with higher carbs and lower fats, fasted cardio in the mornings. I only make me eating window a few hours then I fast 16-20 hours a day.
    i lift 3-4 days a week with no cardio as i have been able to lose fat without it and whenever i do it, what muscle i do have seems to just disappear lol. i usually fast for 16-18 hours before i start feeling like CRAP and have to eat, and usually right around then or right when i wake up i have a session where i poop a lot, so maybe it is making my metabolism faster or idk if its just my diet. not sure but i will try it with a higher carb diet before i give up on it though
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    i lift 3-4 days a week with no cardio as i have been able to lose fat without it and whenever i do it, what muscle i do have seems to just disappear lol. i usually fast for 16-18 hours before i start feeling like CRAP and have to eat, and usually right around then or right when i wake up i have a session where i poop a lot, so maybe it is making my metabolism faster or idk if its just my diet. not sure but i will try it with a higher carb diet before i give up on it though

    Yeah have you tryed low intensity cardio? I only walk the treadmill for 45-60 mins on 10% incline 2.5-3 mph. Its reccomended on a fasted stomach no BCAAS needed. As long as you are getting enough carbs/calories on your workout days it shouldn't make you lose muscle especially only treadmill walking. For me though it has made the difference in getting the abs showing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmarin18

    Were you following the 3 days of lifting 4 days of rest days/cardio days? This is what I am doing, low carbs higher fats on rest/cardio days with a calorie deficit and eat around maitenence or 10% surplus on lifting days with higher carbs and lower fats, fasted cardio in the mornings. I only make me eating window a few hours then I fast 16-20 hours a day.
    This is the diet I follow, although I don't do the intermittent fasting.
    It works really well for me, I've actually managed to put on 7 pound of lean mass in the last three months.
    Good luck
    Peace
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddgranit View Post
    This is the diet I follow, although I don't do the intermittent fasting.
    It works really well for me, I've actually managed to put on 7 pound of lean mass in the last three months.
    Good luck
    Peace

    Glad to hear its going well for you. Cheers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmarin18 View Post
    Yeah have you tryed low intensity cardio? I only walk the treadmill for 45-60 mins on 10% incline 2.5-3 mph. Its reccomended on a fasted stomach no BCAAS needed. As long as you are getting enough carbs/calories on your workout days it shouldn't make you lose muscle especially only treadmill walking. For me though it has made the difference in getting the abs showing.
    wow hearing that is something new and that actually would make a lot of sense, fasted training sounds like it would make a lot of sense because it would take advantage of the growth hormone spike you have...
    so is this true? thats what i really wanna know, you think you have felt the symptoms of raised hgh levels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    wow hearing that is something new and that actually would make a lot of sense, fasted training sounds like it would make a lot of sense because it would take advantage of the growth hormone spike you have...
    so is this true? thats what i really wanna know, you think you have felt the symptoms of raised hgh levels?
    I don't know what the symptoms are for raised hgh levels. But yes I think the fasted training works wonders. I myself have been using whey protein pre-workout only no carbs and then my feeding window starts with my post workout meal. My fasted cardio is just incline treadmill walking and maybe a slight jog mixed in and I get away just fine without BCAAS. Some experienced people here told me its not necessary to take BCAAS before fasted cardio, and it can actually be counter-productive due to how BCAAS temporarily break fast and spike insulin.

    If you explain what you meant what you meant by do i feel the symptoms of raised hgh levels maybe I can answer the question better haha sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmarin18 View Post
    I don't know what the symptoms are for raised hgh levels. But yes I think the fasted training works wonders. I myself have been using whey protein pre-workout only no carbs and then my feeding window starts with my post workout meal. My fasted cardio is just incline treadmill walking and maybe a slight jog mixed in and I get away just fine without BCAAS. Some experienced people here told me its not necessary to take BCAAS before fasted cardio, and it can actually be counter-productive due to how BCAAS temporarily break fast and spike insulin.

    If you explain what you meant what you meant by do i feel the symptoms of raised hgh levels maybe I can answer the question better haha sorry.
    theres a couple of studies on IF saying it raises hgh levels by 200% or something like that during the fasting periods. from what i know, i believe the effects of increased hgh are: increased protein synthesis/shorter recovery time, increased fat burning, also it should make your body more anabolic so you should have an easier time preserving muscle while cutting... so i guess im asking when doing IF did u experience something like this?

    also, you mean you take your protein preworkout before your fasted training? that would break the fast wouldnt it, as anything with calories would?

    and btw i have done low intensity cardio before, which wasn't that bad, but then i tried fasted weightlifting and man that made me feel like dogsh1t haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    theres a couple of studies on IF saying it raises hgh levels by 200% or something like that during the fasting periods. from what i know, i believe the effects of increased hgh are: increased protein synthesis/shorter recovery time, increased fat burning, also it should make your body more anabolic so you should have an easier time preserving muscle while cutting... so i guess im asking when doing IF did u experience something like this?

    also, you mean you take your protein preworkout before your fasted training? that would break the fast wouldnt it, as anything with calories would?

    and btw i have done low intensity cardio before, which wasn't that bad, but then i tried fasted weightlifting and man that made me feel like dogsh1t haha
    Both BCAAS and protein technically will temporarily break your fast as this is intended to spike insulin and preserve your muscle during your workout. Martin says himself on his website that you can substitute BCAAS for 40g of whey which is the equivalent to 10g BCAA. The results may not be the exact same between the two but I believe he said you shouldn't notice much of a difference. Plus I read some articles on leangains and pre-workout protein boosting metabolism and burning fat. I can't workout on only BCAA's its not for me, but if you can do it then go ahead I know alot of people who can do it that way.

    As for my recovery time I have always had a pretty good one, so I have't noticed much with that, increased fat burning i definetly think so, and I def have preserved my muscle while cutting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmarin18 View Post
    Both BCAAS and protein technically will temporarily break your fast as this is intended to spike insulin and preserve your muscle during your workout. Martin says himself on his website that you can substitute BCAAS for 40g of whey which is the equivalent to 10g BCAA. The results may not be the exact same between the two but I believe he said you shouldn't notice much of a difference. Plus I read some articles on leangains and pre-workout protein boosting metabolism and burning fat. I can't workout on only BCAA's its not for me, but if you can do it then go ahead I know alot of people who can do it that way.

    As for my recovery time I have always had a pretty good one, so I have't noticed much with that, increased fat burning i definetly think so, and I def have preserved my muscle while cutting.
    wow thanks a lot you actually answered all of what i wanted to know,
    good lookin out, guy. reps will come your way very soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    wow thanks a lot you actually answered all of what i wanted to know,
    good lookin out, guy. reps will come your way very soon
    Np man threw some back in return, lemme know if you have any questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    been lifting for 3 years and not once have i EVER had a six pack and for the past 2 months i have been completely determined to get one.

    started out the cut pretty chubby at 200lbs, coming off of what was basicly a 10 month bulk and did a strict keto diet and lost about 15 pounds in the first month (mostly fat and water i think, but also quite a bit of muscle), but since then my fat loss came to a SCREECHING halt and havent lost any more since.... so now to try to boost my metabolism and stop losing muscle i started doing carb ups weekly. i think im at 15% bodyfat right now.

    my daily diet is:
    chicken/tuna
    5 whole eggs
    egg whites (like 3/4 carton per day)
    varous cheeses (gouda/ pepperjack)
    and a little bacon every once in a while
    2 scoops protein powder daily

    all adding up to 1600 calories and on days im really hungry 1800 cals, and around 230-250gProtein because its real hard for me to hold on to muscle and ive lost a lot of strength (like 40lbs down on shrugs and squats and lik 10-20lbs on deadlift)

    for carb ups i eat about 600 carbs for one day from apple cider, steel cut oats, rice, whole grain bread, and potatoes

    its really important i get down to low bodyfat because i took a well praised and trusted test booster which ending up giving me a bunch of CHEST FAT (not glandular gyno as far as i can tell) but really it just looks terrible everytime i look in the mirror i get pissed and im trying so hard to get it to go away and i think getting low bodyfat is the only way to do it cus NONE of the fat ive already lost came off of my chest at all, its still f*ckin there! please help me


    Looked like a long damn book for this posting so I didn't even want to bother reading all that ****.

    In case it wasn't said.....


    Dropping calories and carbs too quickly would be a bad thing if having a 6pack is your goal. You should gradually drop both till you reach a low ass deficit (-800 from BMR) and low as carbs (below 50g). Once you've reached that, you should continue the fat loss by introducing cardio.



    In case it was already said...well who gives a ****. I'm not reading all those posts........
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    its okay guy you don't have to read anything you don't want to read
    everything's gonna be just fine
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    its okay guy you don't have to read anything you don't want to read
    everything's gonna be just fine

    Hug?
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    Quote Originally Posted by epstaneman View Post
    Hug?
    hugs.
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    lol.
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    hey mason,
    lemme know ur thoughts on my new post about fat burning?
    cant post links yet but its in the weight loss forum..
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayface91 View Post
    hey mason,
    lemme know ur thoughts on my new post about fat burning?
    cant post links yet but its in the weight loss forum..

    Done.
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  5. Help me with my bulking diet (extremely hard gainer)
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    Last Post: 04-04-2003, 03:12 AM

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