MidwestBeast in: The Case of the Mysterious Weight Gain!

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    MidwestBeast in: The Case of the Mysterious Weight Gain!


    Well, for the sake of boredom, fun, and just curiosity to see what some of the greater minds of AM think, I've decided to create this thread. For those who know me, you know I've been dealing with some medical stuff for a while, now, and despite thinking I've found an answer or a solution, I've repeatedly found myself at more crossroads. If you don't want to read this thread, I don't blame you at all; what I'm going through is an absolute mess and certainly doesn't lend itself to a quick answer. However, if you're intrigued, feel free to read my story and if there's something that sticks out to you, please, chime in. Even if you just need some help or just want to chat due to whatever frustrating circumstances you may be facing in your own life, you can do that here, too. I'd love to find out what's wrong with me and fix the problem, but if I can help anyone else or even just make someone else's day not feel quite as bad, I'd love to do that, too.

    The Big Back Story:


    A long, long time ago, in a state in the middle of the US, a happy boy existed. From the time he was born, he was very active. Until about the age of 8 or so, he was incredibly skinny. About that time, though, he started getting a bit chubbier, though it was nothing to worry about. As he got older, he never seemed to get rid of that chubbiness, despite constantly playing sports and being active and rarely touching a video game or spending a moment inside. Once high school hit, the urge to lose the weight was even more important. He played baseball year round, weight-trained and even started running 7-9 miles nightly. He didn't know a lick about nutrition, but he did know that eating less was supposed to mean losing weight. So, he practically starved himself for a portion of time and only ate some fruit, vegetables and little more. He wasn't obese by any stretch, but he didn't have the body of someone who did what he did. He also had become a master at knowing how to hide what fat he had by sucking his gut in and dressing to keep people from knowing there was anything underneath (a quickly developing, muscular chest helped by allowing shirts to stick out at that point, instead of the stomach).

    Once he got to college, he no longer had baseball to play. So, weight-training became a new passion. From that came some great physical changes, but no significant loss of fat. Around the age of 19, fat-burners became a topic of interest, since nothing else seemed to work and understanding the most basic concepts of food at a macro-nutrient level wasn't something he even knew to contemplate studying. He was still very active, ate pretty well, but couldn't get the results he wanted. Finally, in his senior year of college, he was convinced to start playing basketball (for the first time since early high school, really) because a close friend played a lot of pickup games at the rec. It started off as just an opportunity to run somewhere other than on a track or a treadmill, but slowly, it became a new passion. It was a great new outlet for aggression and competitiveness that weight-training didn't always provide. Eventually, it was common to play for 2-3 hours a night, 4-5 nights each week. He could literally run 10+ games in a row, with only a 2-3 minute break in between while the losing team would leave and to get a quick drink of water. Despite the amazing endurance, he still carried a lot of extra fat.

    Nothing much changed through the transition to grad school. Basketball was still very regular. Weight-training was just as common. And he even started eating a bit healthier, to boot, since he lived on his own and not in the dorms, anymore. About midway through the second year of grad school, he started to focus more on bodybuilding and not just weight-training. At age 18, it started off with lifting about 3 times a week with a lot of compound movements and a variety of reps/sets over the years. At this point, it transitioned into more of a "body-part-per-day" style that relied on a lot of 3 and 4-by-twelves; along with some superset days, too, in hopes of burning off that fat. It was around this time that nutrition really started getting researched. This was partially due to involvement on online forums and not just relying on Men's Health, anymore. The transition to MD from MH played a role, too. At age 23, he started to get the brachial artery showing up on the bicep. When flexing his abs, they showed up, too. If he just relaxed, though, there was still some fat, though all things considered--not as much as what was to come.

    It was finally at this time, at age 24, that he realized what a caloric maintenance level was and that one actually had to surpass that to gain muscle. For the nearly 10 years he'd been lifting, he was trying to lose fat. It never crossed his mind that he'd actually have to take in enough to build muscle. At this time, he realized he was pretty ignorant. Despite training and being active and working hard for 10 years, it was the next 2 in which he'd learn exponentially more. The concepts of counting calories, cycling calories and carbs, learning complex versus simple carbohydrates, learning what good fats were and many other things were new and implemented. The best he'd previously looked had been on Spring Break at age 23; right around 200-205 lbs. A few months later, he'd managed to drop back down to about that level from 225 or so with his first ever EC stack (still before all the food knowledge was learned). From that point, he gained to around 230 without really understanding how. He slowly started whittling it back down and hit 214 over a couple months. He then attempted his first ever keto diet and managed to lose 6.4 lbs in a month without having one single cheat from his diet. At 208, he looked the best he'd ever looked (though he seemed to be carrying a tad more fat compared to March '09; now in May '10).

    He allowed himself a cheat meal at the completion of a month and then got back to it, but no matter what he did, he couldn't seem to lose a pound. It had always been hard, but this was literally impossible. After another couple weeks of no success and major headache, his friend asked him how long he'd been trying to cut. "Well, about 5 months, though admittedly my entire life." His friend suggested perhaps he try to bulk because his body was stressed from all that time trying to cut. It seemed to make enough since, so that led to the first ever attempt of a bulk. At the start of the bulk, he was 220 lbs. He implemented Max OT training and was eating between 3,000 and 3,500 calories per day. He gained exponential strength and also added 24 lbs in 7 weeks. Sitting at 244 lbs, he'd never weighed more. His waist had gone from 35" up to 36.25" and that didn't sit well with him, but he could still see his abs; though covered with more fat than he'd like. On the bright side, his bench had moved up to 365x5 and he was leg-pressing 1,200 pounds for reps. At that point, though, he knew it was time to try cutting again. What he found was a lot more of the same; losing a pound or two, but gaining it right back despite having a diet completely on point and no cheat meals.

    By the time the new year hit, he tried an all out cut attempt with a keto diet and a ridiculous supplement regimen with fat-burning occurring from multiple pathways. There was a 6 week drop that first week (likely mostly glycogen), but after that, a consistent gain of 1 pound every other day or so. It was at that point that he finally decided that something had to be wrong. Previously, he thought that he was always doing something wrong--he could work harder, eat better...something! But now he finally knew, it was beyond his own doing.


    Cliffs:

    - I've always been active
    - Weight training / running regularly since age 14
    - Always carried extra weight since about age 8
    - Been very hard to lose weight, but possible
    - Finally got some abs and the brachials showing up at age 23
    - Hit a sticking point where I literally couldn't lose weight
    - Did my first ever bulk; added 24 lbs in 7 weeks
    - Tried to cut again; same sticking point
    - Realized that it might be a medical issue January '11


    2011 - The Medical Quest

    On January 21, 2011, I had a full hormonal blood panel done and was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Leading up to the blood tests, I'd been researching this and was suspicious of it (because prior to this point, I had heard the term "metabolism" tossed around frequently and knew that everyone had their own; some good, some bad, but I never knew that it could actually be changed). It sucked to find out I'd be taking medication the rest of my life, but hey, it's just another pill, right? More than being upset about that, I was thrilled to finally have an answer. I thought, "I'll just start taking this pill, doing everything else I already do and pretty soon, hello body I've always dreamed of." It didn't go that way.

    Despite adding in the 50mcg of T4 I'd been prescribed and running and lifting hard, the scale wasn't budging and the mirror wasn't changing, either. In 6 weeks, I had his blood draw and saw my TSH drop from 5.67 down to 3.94. I talked to the doctor about it, explained the problems I was still having and was told to just keep taking the same dose and to come back in 3 months for another blood draw. Needless to say, I found an endocrinologist at that point. I was thrilled when the endo said he'd bump the dose up to 112mcg/day from 50. It was the same story--come back in 6 weeks for blood work. In that time, my TSH dropped down to 2-something (need to get the copy of that lab work, actually). More of the same.

    It was at this time that I found a companion who offered some help and advice and led me to start looking into Reverse T3. When reading about it, it seemed to be the perfect culprit. So, I had blood work done and sure enough, rT3 was 41, high out of range (ref: 11-32). My endocrinologist, however, told me this test was completely meaningless and advised me to continue taking the 112mcg of T4, daily, despite all research pointing out that in instances of rT3 dominance that T4 is simply converted into more rT3 and that T3 is needed to defeat this cycle. So, I decided to supplement T3 only at 100mcg/day at that point and cut out T4 (I haven't touched T4, since). Research suggested that it would take roughly 12 weeks for the rT3 to clear, but once it did, it would be back to normal. Blood work roughly one month after starting T3-only supplementation provided this: rT3 - 55 LOW (ref: 90-350) along with a TSH at 0.13 (now technically hyper-thyroid, though those symptoms obviously weren't experienced). So, these numbers pointed toward things going in the right direction, though the experiences obviously weren't seen.

    It was around this time that other options were explored. Adrenal fatigue due to overuse of stimulants was one and pituitary or hypothalmus problems were also considered. An afternoon cortisol draw showed cortisol in range, though a bit low. An 8 AM cortisol draw showed it in range. However, a 24-hour cortisol test showed it significantly high out of range: 96.9 (ref: <60). The doctor argued, however, that the reason it was high was due to high total urine volume. ACTH was recently measured and that came back in range. Between those two things, the current doctor now thinks everything is fine, too, though it obviously isn't.

    The most recent venture has been pursuing the possibility of sleep apnea. A consult with a specialist yesterday has led to a sleep study being scheduled for Thursday night. Sleep Apnea was one of the things that was considered initially, as it is often related to thyroid problems, however, it just seemed like it would be impossible for that to lead to so many problems. In 5 days, this should be answered.

    Cliffs:

    - January 11 was diagnosed hypothyroid
    - 50mcg T4/day brought TSH down but did nothing
    - 112 mcg T4/day did the same
    - started dosing T3 only at 100mcg/day in July
    - rT3 went low out of range, TSH and Free T3 all look stunning, but still no results
    - 24-hour cortisol came back significantly high, but doc dismissed it due to high overall urine content
    - 8 AM cortisol blood test showed normal; as did ACTH
    - currently pursuing sleep apnea as a culprit; sleep study scheduled in a few days


    Things worth noting:

    - Hypothyroidism
    - Temperature consistently around 96-97F (though it can get up to 98.6 on occasion, for short times)
    - Long overuse of stimulants (over 1g caffeine/day at some points)
    - Stimulant free since May 20, 2011
    - 24-hour cortisol came back high out of range, though one-time draws haven't shown anything high
    - Hair growth has slowed to nearly a halt over the last year (used to need haircuts every 2 weeks)
    - Hair thinning a bit, shedding not terribly, but more than it ever did
    - When on T4, my urine was dark yellow no matter how much water I drank (never was the case before; not the case now on T3)
    - Energy levels are lower than what they were when I was in college/grad school, though it may be highly psychological now, too
    - Neck is 17.5" and I do snore, so sleep apnea may be an issue and within a week, I can hopefully say one way or another
    - Even if sleep apnea is happening, I still worry about hypopituitarism because of the initial hypothyroidism and low body temperature


    So, if you've read through all of that, or even just the cliffs and you're in for a good mystery, feel free to join in. I'll upload all of my labs whenever I can, so those can be seen, as well.
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    Labs:

    1-21-11 Full Blood Panel (1)


    1-21-11 Full Blood Panel (2)


    1-21-11 Thyroid Ultrasound


    3-13-11 Thyroid Panel


    6-16-11 Blood Panel (Thyroid, Cortisol, etc.)


    7-23-11 Thyroid Panel


    8-19-11 24-hour Cortisol Panel


    9-12-11 Thyroid Panel & 8 AM Cortisol (1)


    9-12-11 Thyroid Panel & 8 AM Cortisol (2)


    9-27-11 ACTH Lab



    10-20-11 Thyroid Panel


    11-02-11 Metabolic Panel and Metals Lab (1)


    11-02-11 Metabolic Panel and Metals Lab (2)


    11-14-11 Prolactin, Ferritin & HGH Labs


    12-16-11 TPO-Ab, Insulin, GTT, Heavy Metals Tests (1)


    12-16-11 TPO-Ab, Insulin, GTT, Heavy Metals Tests (2)
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    I'm in for another season of "The body composition chronicles of Midwest Beast"

    First to sub bro
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    Dude been following since the last log. Good luck. Your story sounds similar to mine but I got fat at age 8 and could never lose weight. My problems just escalated from there. Well that for another time.

    I'm subbed along buddy. Maybe one day we will meet in Hawaii
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    Def in.

    I read every bit. It does seem curious. You know me, I have to ask more details.
    Workouts, cardio, average HR during workouts, macros, cal totals, supps, or anything else u may be taking.

    I know it sounds like your stuck bro, but look how far you've come! 365x5 is nothing to shrug off.

    Keep at this sh1t, u'll no doubt get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Subbed MWB.
    Have you had a biosignature done?u mention a hormone test but what else you have done?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I'm in for another season of "The body composition chronicles of Midwest Beast"

    First to sub bro
    Glad to have you along, Rick. Hopefully there will be some resolution so I can actually start making some progress, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Dude been following since the last log. Good luck. Your story sounds similar to mine but I got fat at age 8 and could never lose weight. My problems just escalated from there. Well that for another time.

    I'm subbed along buddy. Maybe one day we will meet in Hawaii
    Thanks, man. And whenever I get it all resolved, I'm definitely going back to Hawaii so I can surf at like 200lbs instead of 250 lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    Def in.

    I read every bit. It does seem curious. You know me, I have to ask more details.
    Workouts, cardio, average HR during workouts, macros, cal totals, supps, or anything else u may be taking.

    I know it sounds like your stuck bro, but look how far you've come! 365x5 is nothing to shrug off.

    Keep at this sh1t, u'll no doubt get it.
    Glad to have you in, morry (and also thank you for reading all of that).

    As for more details:

    I've switched my workouts up a couple of times. For a decent stretch I was doing 20-30 minutes of fasted cardio every morning and then weight-training 5 afternoons, while the other 2 afternoons were filled with an extra cardio session. My favorite training style was going one week of Max-OT training to keep strength up, followed by one week of 4x12's that were 60 seconds rest between sets and 120 seconds when I'd switch stations. My weights were still pretty heavy considering the quicker pace. As for HR, it usually chilled right around 70% for my workouts, but there were times I'd get it up a little over 80%. I've tried a number of macro splits: 40/40/20; keto; carb cycling where I took in less than 50g on cardio only days, around 100g on 3 lifting days and around 200g on 2 lifting days. I've varied cal totals from anywhere up to 2700 and down to 1900. I used to do traditional eat every 2-3 hours all small meals, but I've done IF, too (for 2 different stretches). I've tried paleo and had no success with it.

    Supps I'm currently taking are: Orange Triad, fish oil, 5g creatine monohydrate post-workout, Ultima pre-workout (atm), unflavored Modern BCAA + Purple Wraath intra-workout (atm), and my 25mcg T3/day that I'm prescribed. I'll do a protein shake post-workout, but that's it.

    Over time, I'd taken a lot of other things, but that's all I've been using for a decent stretch and no stims since May 20th.

    And I'm not benching that much anymore, despite the fact that my weight has climbed to nearly 260 now lol. I've actually got a hip misalignment that has somehow led to my back being slightly overdeveloped on one side, which lends itself to not being an ideal base for flat bench. My incline is still around 255x12 or so with a number of other sets, but I lead off with it and do flat afterward.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Subbed MWB.
    Have you had a biosignature done?u mention a hormone test but what else you have done?
    Glad to see you in here, as well. I've never had a biosignature done; not particularly sure what that is off the top of my head.

    Back in January, I had a full blood test done and on top of that, I had test, free test, estradiol, and IGF-1 all measured. I'll get all of them uploaded into post #2 sometime soon (I have to edit them into .jpg's from the .pdf's they are).
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    Is the T3 seeming to help you out any? Just seems odd that you say you are closer to 260 now, and have been on T3 for a bit right?
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    I know this might be out of the question...or maybe out of the price range....maybe you should go get your genome mapped. Maybe they can see what's going on at the genetic level and find out what the hell is going on with your body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Is the T3 seeming to help you out any? Just seems odd that you say you are closer to 260 now, and have been on T3 for a bit right?
    Haha, no the T3 is helping my thyroid numbers but doing nothing as far as feeling or visual. I want to be on it instead of T4, though. The T4 had my urine dark yellow all day long even while drinking 2 gallons of water a day. That very well may have been due to the rT3 conversion, though. I know guys on juice talking about T3 making them feel weak/flat, but I was still hitting really heavy numbers on 100mcg of T3 without anything anabolic being run alongside it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    I know this might be out of the question...or maybe out of the price range....maybe you should go get your genome mapped. Maybe they can see what's going on at the genetic level and find out what the hell is going on with your body.
    I hadn't even thought about it. Nothing is out of price range, in a sense, because fixing myself is more important than having money saved away for anything materialistic. I'm going to see what the sleep study turns up on Thursday before I pursue anything else at the moment, but I'm not going to stop doing any research in the meantime, because I've already done this at doctors' pace and I'm tired of wasting time and days of my life.
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    I am in for this one brother. After all the test done had the doc said anything about hashimoto thyroiditis (sp?). My mother actually has this and alot of what you have said falls in line with some of the things she was dealing with besides the fact she has MS. I will go through some of my old notes and see how much similarities there really are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlychevy6 View Post
    I am in for this one brother. After all the test done had the doc said anything about hashimoto thyroiditis (sp?). My mother actually has this and alot of what you have said falls in line with some of the things she was dealing with besides the fact she has MS. I will go through some of my old notes and see how much similarities there really are.
    The only time Hashimoto's was actually brought up was by accident when the endo's office said something about it when I'd called for a copy of lab work. I was baffled and said if that's the case, they never once mentioned it to me. She was like "well yeah it's right here on your file" and then the next day I talked to someone else who said "I have no idea what you're talking about." Stuff like that just drives me nuts.
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    Take a look at this link. There is some good info on this and see if it matches up to your symptoms. Www.medicinenet.com/hashimotos_thyroiditis/article.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlychevy6 View Post
    Take a look at this link. There is some good info on this and see if it matches up to your symptoms. Www.medicinenet.com/hashimotos_thyroiditis/article.htm
    I've actually read that very link (along with others) when they screwed up and said I had Hashimoto's when they were looking at someone else's file. In the 6-16 labs, I'd requested to have thyroid antibodies checked to confirm or rule out Hashimoto's. To be honest, I didn't really know what the thyroid antibodies were on tests until I just googled it now and apparently they never tested them. So, technically, I guess that can't be entirely ruled out.
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    Labs are all posted in Post #2, now.
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    Dude impressive detail on the story. I am new to AM. You may have covered this but the mysterious nature of this thing got me thinking. I was talking with a trainer at golds who had just won one of those train the trainer competitions (he was the trainee) but he was complaining of not being able to drop the last few pounds around the middle and he was hitting it hard (morning high intensity cardio) follwed by high intesity O2 robbing compund lifting. He looked awesome, and he was the hardest working guy in the gym. But - He was stuck. Frustrated and tried evrything he could think of. Then out of nowhere Ciliac Disease was the culprit. He got on the docs program and a few weeks later totally lean. Dont know if you covered this but i thought I would jump in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clauncher View Post
    Dude impressive detail on the story. I am new to AM. You may have covered this but the mysterious nature of this thing got me thinking. I was talking with a trainer at golds who had just won one of those train the trainer competitions (he was the trainee) but he was complaining of not being able to drop the last few pounds around the middle and he was hitting it hard (morning high intensity cardio) follwed by high intesity O2 robbing compund lifting. He looked awesome, and he was the hardest working guy in the gym. But - He was stuck. Frustrated and tried evrything he could think of. Then out of nowhere Ciliac Disease was the culprit. He got on the docs program and a few weeks later totally lean. Dont know if you covered this but i thought I would jump in.
    Thank you for taking the time to post. As an intro to AM, reading my nonsensical story is certainly no easy/fun task. I actually had only briefly looked at Celiac Disease as a culprit. I tried a paleo diet for a while in which I'd completely cut gluten out, but the symptoms did not change and there was no benefit. That certainly doesn't rule it out, but it didn't lead me to lean toward it. However, having the blood tests done to check for it wouldn't be a terrible idea. I appreciate you bringing up a very valid concern in my thread--it means a lot.
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    So I just found out the sleep study is likely going to be about $700 out of pocket and my insurance has an unrealistically high deductible; so I'm stuck paying it all. Then she mentioned a possible need for a second sleep study depending on how the results from this one go. Needless to say, I'm not pleased about it as I've already dropped $700 on getting 5 wisdom teeth out a month ago (unfortunately it fell under dental and doesn't go toward this deductible).

    With all that in mind, I'm going to set up a cam and record myself sleeping tonight just to see/hear what that turns up. Who knows if it'll be beneficial, but I'm trying to be sure before I drop $700 (working in higher education is very rewarding, but unless you're at the doctorate level and working very high up in administration, it's not the field to get rich in).



    Also worth noting:

    - It takes me a very long time to have cuts heal, now (never noticed it until the past year or so).
    - I have had a small rash at the outside end of my right eyebrow for over a month, now (reading about Celiacs made me look into dermatitis herpetiformis, but based on what I see, it doesn't look like that, and that's more likely on elbows, knees and butt)
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    Last night, I attempted to record myself via webcam while I slept to see if I could notice anything before I went in and dropped $700 of my own money on a sleep study. For whatever reason, it only recorded an hour. I think I have it resolved to take care of it tonight. I did notice near the end of that hour, though, that I basically propped myself up and completely moved myself while sleeping (not just rolling over), which I do not remember. So, perhaps I'm waking up without knowing it.

    Like I said, hopefully I'll get the whole night tonight so I can analyze it in the morning. If I don't snore at all (and I know I snore lol), I might cancel the study for now.

    I just have a really hard time spending $700 if I'm not positive it's needed or will fix things. I definitely don't have all that much saved up.
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    So I'm always kind of spit-balling, just because I'm so sick of this (I weighed 269 post workout today at the gym, clothed on their scale). So, bear with me as I list off some things. I'd really love some guys with more knowledge on this stuff to help me dismiss or possible investigate things further.

    So, based on all the facts, these are things that still dance around my head:

    - Celiac Disease

    I've gone paleo for a month a while back and saw no benefit.

    - Sleep Apnea

    I'll hopefully be able to confirm or deny this in a couple days.

    - Low Thyroxine

    I've been supplementing with just T3 since July, so my Thyroxine (T4) levels are low, while all others look fine.

    - Hypopituitariasm / Pituitary tumor

    Factoring the hypothyroidism in with the high cortisol and possible adrenal problems from overuse of stims, this seems possible.

    - Adrenal / receptor problems

    ACTH came back fine, but 24-hour cortisol was high. Again, referencing the overuse of stims this seems possible. I'm actually not familiar with "receptor" problems at all, but my doctor had briefly mentioned it.

    - Diabetes / Insulin issues

    My dad is type 1.5 diabetic. I was just beyond the "pre-diabetic" range about 3 years ago (when I was healthy, but no where near what I am, now). It's always just seemed like something that could cause problems, even though it doesn't seem plausible by the fact that I'm still able to do what I do.




    That's all I'm coming up with at the moment (kind of scatterbrained). Any thoughts at all based on what you know about me and what my blood work shows?

    A few other things to note are that in the past (not all the time, but on occasion), I've sneezed and felt my joints ache (particularly my elbows). I've always seemed to have intestinal issues: I've had bleeding issues spring up on occasion in the past (likely a small tear or fissure; it's felt like I'm passing shards of plastic in a literal sense and I've often felt like there's more to go when having a bowel movement, though there's nothing else -- Possible issue with an early stage of internal hemorrhoids).

    So factor those in with the constant low body temp (read: not anabolic or thermogenic), lack of drive/concentration, inability to lose weight despite caloric intake, no response to nearly a gram of caffeine at one point because I'd been dosing stims high for so long, and whatever else I may have left out from my initial post.

    As always, thanks for any and all help, guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Last night, I attempted to record myself via webcam while I slept to see if I could notice anything before I went in and dropped $700 of my own money on a sleep study. For whatever reason, it only recorded an hour. I think I have it resolved to take care of it tonight. I did notice near the end of that hour, though, that I basically propped myself up and completely moved myself while sleeping (not just rolling over), which I do not remember. So, perhaps I'm waking up without knowing it.

    Like I said, hopefully I'll get the whole night tonight so I can analyze it in the morning. If I don't snore at all (and I know I snore lol), I might cancel the study for now.

    I just have a really hard time spending $700 if I'm not positive it's needed or will fix things. I definitely don't have all that much saved up.
    I have a friend that sleep walks. I dont know if he is as metabolically messed up as you are but I know he doesnt eat much, is pretty over weight. But his diet is REALLY crap. Takes him a while to heal as well. When he gets small injuries from playing sports at his junior high school (he's a teacher like me but at the JHS level) it takes him a LONG time to heal. I think he hurt his thumb and that took around 5months before he could actually still use it. It wasnt even broken, just a sprain... Could haev some correlation between sleep walking and your slow healing/thyroid.
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    On the whole paleo thing, try listening to Chris Kresser's podcast with Matt Lalonde on it. He goes over anyone with thyroid problems and how they have to avoid pretty much EVERYTHING. His list is VERY comprehensable as he says everything, not the "No grains, legumes, dairy". He goes over all the little stuff. And he also says that gluten contamination can have an effect for as long as 6-8months... so clearing that can take a long time.. =\
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    Let me speak on sleep study if I may. About 6 years or so ago i did a sleep study. I always knew I had sleeping issues just never knew how bad. At age 32 I think my sleep apnea was worse than an 85 year old mans. My tonsils were the size of golf balls. I used a Cpap machine for a while to help me sleep. After the test I had my tonsils and uvula removed. After this was done I slept alright not perfect but ok. Like you a lot of money was spent. As of today I am lucky if i get 4 hours of sleep a night. And it has been that way for as long as i can remember.

    While doing the test it showed I would go almost a solid 2 minutes without breathing and the gasp for air. This happened every few minutes. So is the sleep study worth it. In my opinion yes. Even if it is expensive it will give you an idea as to what is going on.

    Now as far as your cuts not healing that almost sounds like a diabetes issue. I really hope you get this turned around and get back into shape like in your avatar pic.
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    Oh man... diebeties... I hope thats not what my friend has... He's a month older than me... and probably eats the way an aspiring diebetic does...
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    I have a similar history as you in some ways; I was diagnosed hypothyroid in 2010 but fortunately a low does of T4 has corrected that for me. I was in a nearly fatal auto accident in 2005 that really caused me to undergo wild bouts of anxiety and borderline depression. I essentially turned into a hypochondriac and from 05-10 I checked myself into the ER 18 times. Every test always came back "normal," and it got to the point where my general physician refused to see me more than 2x a year.

    My point is that when everything physiologically looks alright, how much of this could be mental for you at this point? Have you sought out therapy or anything along those lines?
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    Maybe we can get The Matrix in here to comment on your bloodwork and history....
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    I have a friend that sleep walks. I dont know if he is as metabolically messed up as you are but I know he doesnt eat much, is pretty over weight. But his diet is REALLY crap. Takes him a while to heal as well. When he gets small injuries from playing sports at his junior high school (he's a teacher like me but at the JHS level) it takes him a LONG time to heal. I think he hurt his thumb and that took around 5months before he could actually still use it. It wasnt even broken, just a sprain... Could haev some correlation between sleep walking and your slow healing/thyroid.
    Well, I know for certain that I don't sleep walk, but the sleep issues may play more of a role than I ever paid attention. I've got a light cut on the tip of my index finger that healed up after a few days, but still hasn't gone away weeks later (never used to have that issue at all).

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    On the whole paleo thing, try listening to Chris Kresser's podcast with Matt Lalonde on it. He goes over anyone with thyroid problems and how they have to avoid pretty much EVERYTHING. His list is VERY comprehensable as he says everything, not the "No grains, legumes, dairy". He goes over all the little stuff. And he also says that gluten contamination can have an effect for as long as 6-8months... so clearing that can take a long time.. =\
    Thanks for that advice. Any chance you have a link? I'll definitely look for it and give it a listen, otherwise. I think I'll likely go paleo again, just to be safe, as soon as I clear out everything that has an expiration date in the kitchen that doesn't currently fall into that category (I hate being wasteful, and plus, it shouldn't be that much). And I had no idea it could take that long to clear your system -- that's certainly interesting. Although, when I was doing keto a year and a half ago, I was losing fat while doing refeeds with a ton of oatmeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onlychevy6 View Post
    Let me speak on sleep study if I may. About 6 years or so ago i did a sleep study. I always knew I had sleeping issues just never knew how bad. At age 32 I think my sleep apnea was worse than an 85 year old mans. My tonsils were the size of golf balls. I used a Cpap machine for a while to help me sleep. After the test I had my tonsils and uvula removed. After this was done I slept alright not perfect but ok. Like you a lot of money was spent. As of today I am lucky if i get 4 hours of sleep a night. And it has been that way for as long as i can remember.

    While doing the test it showed I would go almost a solid 2 minutes without breathing and the gasp for air. This happened every few minutes. So is the sleep study worth it. In my opinion yes. Even if it is expensive it will give you an idea as to what is going on.

    Now as far as your cuts not healing that almost sounds like a diabetes issue. I really hope you get this turned around and get back into shape like in your avatar pic.
    Yeah, I managed to capture a full night's sleep last night and I've only analyzed the first 40 minutes so far, but that already has me feeling more comfortable about a sleep study. I only captured an hour from the night prior, but I didn't snore once and that made me not feel a desire to spend $700 to hear "Nope, nothing wrong here" again lol.

    I do in fact have my tonsils, still and on top of that, my tongue is thick and actually sits further back in my mouth (I believe, as I can barely stick it out past my lips), and my nasal passages are both very narrow--Whenever I'd run, I'd be breathing out of my mouth in no time because I couldn't get enough air through my nostrils, despite trying to breathe that way.

    And concerning the diabetes, my glucose readings have shown up fine, but I also haven't done a fasted test for just blood glucose to check it. Perhaps it's worth using my dad's reader to check it a few times in the morning and around some carb meals.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Oh man... diebeties... I hope thats not what my friend has... He's a month older than me... and probably eats the way an aspiring diebetic does...
    My dad found out he was type 1.5, 13 years ago. He's always been thin, too (despite having a bit of extra fat around the midsection; not bad at all. I got tested on campus in grad school and was close to pre-diabetic, but not even pre-diabetic. Since then, I've only learned more about nutrition and dialed that in significantly, so I would think I don't have it, but I'm not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by dvp View Post
    I have a similar history as you in some ways; I was diagnosed hypothyroid in 2010 but fortunately a low does of T4 has corrected that for me. I was in a nearly fatal auto accident in 2005 that really caused me to undergo wild bouts of anxiety and borderline depression. I essentially turned into a hypochondriac and from 05-10 I checked myself into the ER 18 times. Every test always came back "normal," and it got to the point where my general physician refused to see me more than 2x a year.

    My point is that when everything physiologically looks alright, how much of this could be mental for you at this point? Have you sought out therapy or anything along those lines?
    I wish T4 would have helped. I thought that would have been the case and was so excited about starting it. It didn't give me any benefit, though, and my hair was even worse and my urine was constantly dark yellow. As soon as I switched to just T3, I haven't had those issues (and I had high rT3, as well), so I'm not sure if I'll ever feel comfortable about adding T4 back in; even though it would be beneficial to have both due to the half life.

    As far as from a psychological standpoint, I obviously don't feel the same as I did when I was in better shape. I feel down on occasions, but it's never a full blown depression and I know it's just a bump in the road (albeit a longer bump than I'd ever planned on). And the fact that the scale goes up, my pants get tighter and I eat little lets me know that something is certainly physiologically wrong; not just psychologically.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Maybe we can get The Matrix in here to comment on your bloodwork and history....
    That certainly wouldn't be a bad idea at all. He is a very smart man.
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    So I managed to capture an entire night's sleep on cam, last night. I've currently only analyzed the first 40 minutes, but I've already noticed some stuff that makes me more comfortable about paying for the sleep study.

    - I flipped the TV on for about 5 minutes to catch a bit of the ALCS game (I'm used to putting the TV on using the sleep timer and just falling asleep with the background noise, but I've ceased that the last 2 nights to help with sleep and also avoid any noise for the mic).
    - I know I was lying there awake for at least 5 minutes if not closer to 10 or 15.
    - That means the sleep actually started at minute 10 at the earliest; more likely minute 20-25.
    - At the 31 minute mark, I start snoring.
    - I'm currently at minute 40 and I'm still snoring.
    - There are bouts of no snoring in between, but I can't determine if it's not breathing or just breathing clear.
    - I haven't seen/heard any gasping or choking, yet, but I have 8 more hours of video to watch.
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    10-11-11 Sleep Observations

    00:31 started snoring
    00:45 snorted/moved around
    00:48 started snoring
    00:56 scratched my head
    00:58 scratched my head
    01:03 start snoring
    01:06 phone chirped (text message) / woke & looked toward the phone
    01:09 scratched my head
    01:10 rolled over*
    01:17 started snoring
    01:27 started snoring
    01:44 rolled over
    01:47 completely propped myself up / readjusted
    01:57 readjusted / rolled over
    02:52 woke up / looked at computer / rolled over
    03:39 propped up / rolled over
    03:41 started snoring
    03:54 rolled over
    04:20 rolled over / readjusted
    04:36 rolled over / readjusted
    04:55 rolled over / readjusted
    05:25 rolled over / readjusted
    05:59 completely sat up, brushed my nose, looked at computer
    06:05 adjusted covers / readjusted my arms
    06:37 started snoring
    06:38 stopped snoring / brushed nose / half rolled over and then rolled back
    06:39 readjusted my arm
    06:52 propped up / brushed face / rolled over
    07:06 brushed face / rolled over
    07:09 snorted / rolled over / readjusted
    07:38 readjusted
    08:02 readjusted
    08:05 readjusted
    08:21 readjusted
    08:29 readjusted / rolled over
    08:34 readjusted
    08:40 readjusted ( / looked at phone?)
    08:45 readjusted
    08:47 alarm went off / got up


    *The one time I knew I woke up last night; and I motioned at the camera so I wouldn't forget



    I also recalled one time overnight waking up when I heard a strange noise and sitting half up / staring at the doorway, but I didn't notice it on the video. I know I looked at my phone at 6:54 or 6:55 AM because I thought I overslept (and that would have been 6 or 5 minutes before the alarm went off).
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    Well, I've successfully analyzed 8.5 hours of sleep video (see post above). It sounds like the sleep study may be well warranted in contrast to the one-hour video I got the night before that included virtually nothing. This video had a LOT of action at the start and the snoring seemed to trickle off; though that is largely due to me sleeping on my stomach for a lot of the rest of that time.

    Thoughts?
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    Stomach sleeper. You my friend have some air passage blockage. With the thick tongue, tonsils. Tossing and turning, restless sleep. They will probably want to shave down your tongue and remove tonsils, atnoids, and possibly uvula. That is just my guess.
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    Subbed. Great chronicle here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlychevy6 View Post
    Stomach sleeper. You my friend have some air passage blockage. With the thick tongue, tonsils. Tossing and turning, restless sleep. They will probably want to shave down your tongue and remove tonsils, atnoids, and possibly uvula. That is just my guess.
    Sounds painful...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by wildfox View Post
    Subbed. Great chronicle here.
    Thanks for joining. I appreciate any extra presence I can get in all of this.
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    Okay, so tonight is the sleep study. Still not ecstatic about spending $700 out of pocket, but, since I've been off all supplements but staples for the last several months, I'll probably have made that up, anyway. I rarely go out, don't drink and don't smoke, so all in all, it sucks seeing all the money spent at once, but I can justify it.

    Every once in a while, I start thinking to myself "maybe I'm over-thinking all of this and I really don't have a problem." I think I'm just expecting too much. It's times like that, though, that I look at a transformation log like Rick's or ScottyDoc's and I see what they're able to accomplish in several months. And I realize I've been weight-training for 11+ years and specifically bodybuilding for over 2, now. There is no way in all of that time that I shouldn't have been able to cut up--not when I wasn't drinking in college, was eating healthy, was lifting 4-5 days/week and playing 2-3 hours of basketball 4-5 nights a week. It's when I look at their pictures that I realize that something is definitely wrong with me. Sleep apnea still sounds like there's no way it could cause THIS much trouble, but I'm not an expert in any of this. And I need all the help I can get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlychevy6 View Post
    Stomach sleeper. You my friend have some air passage blockage. With the thick tongue, tonsils. Tossing and turning, restless sleep. They will probably want to shave down your tongue and remove tonsils, atnoids, and possibly uvula. That is just my guess.
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    MIDWESTBEAST! I happened upon your post while googling Indolplex and read about your struggle with weight, thyroid, etc. I swear it is my history as well as my son who is only 14. Hair loss, weight battle when practically starving, low temperatures, high reverse T 3 labs, fatigue, etc. I would encourage you to look up two things. Heavy metal toxicity which can interfere with the endocrine systems (thyroid and adrenals) as well as "mysterious invisible" chemicals which increase estrogen in the body (xenoestrogens.) Just FYI, blood tests are not accurate for detecting heavy metals except in the case of acute exposure. A urine test WITH PROVOCATION (taking about 500 mg of oral DMSA) which will provoke the metals stored in the body to be excreted in the urine. Without the provocation test, your urine test for heavy metals will probably look "normal" when your body load can be quite high. Genova Diagnostics makes a good heavy metal test, but you need to remember to use DMSA oral dose of about 500 mg for an accurate test. Testing for xenoestrogens can be done also through urine testing but, you probably should save your money and just figure you carry a fairly high load of these toxic chemicals and endocrine disruptors since everything in our world is SURROUNDED in PLASTIC! Herbicides, plastics, pesticides, etc all interfere with the endocrine system. You can only get rid of these types of chemical toxins with a far infared sauna (sadly not cheap) and sweating, avoiding these chemicals as much as possible. Heavy metals can be eliminated with chelation, rectal chelation being the cheapest and safest, although not the fastest. Normally, I never post at these sites, but found your history so similar to my own and heartbreaking, I had to write. I am using chelation and sauna, and slowly improving. Detoxify or Die by Dr. Sherry Rogers MD is a good book to start with for more information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharktopussie View Post
    MIDWESTBEAST! I happened upon your post while googling Indolplex and read about your struggle with weight, thyroid, etc. I swear it is my history as well as my son who is only 14. Hair loss, weight battle when practically starving, low temperatures, high reverse T 3 labs, fatigue, etc. I would encourage you to look up two things. Heavy metal toxicity which can interfere with the endocrine systems (thyroid and adrenals) as well as "mysterious invisible" chemicals which increase estrogen in the body (xenoestrogens.) Just FYI, blood tests are not accurate for detecting heavy metals except in the case of acute exposure. A urine test WITH PROVOCATION (taking about 500 mg of oral DMSA) which will provoke the metals stored in the body to be excreted in the urine. Without the provocation test, your urine test for heavy metals will probably look "normal" when your body load can be quite high. Genova Diagnostics makes a good heavy metal test, but you need to remember to use DMSA oral dose of about 500 mg for an accurate test. Testing for xenoestrogens can be done also through urine testing but, you probably should save your money and just figure you carry a fairly high load of these toxic chemicals and endocrine disruptors since everything in our world is SURROUNDED in PLASTIC! Herbicides, plastics, pesticides, etc all interfere with the endocrine system. You can only get rid of these types of chemical toxins with a far infared sauna (sadly not cheap) and sweating, avoiding these chemicals as much as possible. Heavy metals can be eliminated with chelation, rectal chelation being the cheapest and safest, although not the fastest. Normally, I never post at these sites, but found your history so similar to my own and heartbreaking, I had to write. I am using chelation and sauna, and slowly improving. Detoxify or Die by Dr. Sherry Rogers MD is a good book to start with for more information.
    I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join and post here; it truly means a lot. Both of those things are things I am not at all familiar with, though I have heard of heavy metals. I will do what research I can on all of this, as well. I hope you stick around the site and continue to share anything you can, since my back story (and apparently yours and your son's just has not seemed very common). I'm going in for my sleep study in 4 hours. I'll be sure to update everyone tomorrow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join and post here; it truly means a lot. Both of those things are things I am not at all familiar with, though I have heard of heavy metals. I will do what research I can on all of this, as well. I hope you stick around the site and continue to share anything you can, since my back story (and apparently yours and your son's just has not seemed very common). I'm going in for my sleep study in 4 hours. I'll be sure to update everyone tomorrow.
    Good luck my friend!!!

    Detoxing is important, as we are in a world that is FILLED with phyto estrogens and toxins... I dont do any but I should... Im looking into more natural stuff like bathes, saunas, etc. to decrease toxins in my body and help the normal funcitons in my body get back to "normal".
    RecoverBro ELITE
  39. Registered User
    mattrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharktopussie View Post
    MIDWESTBEAST! I happened upon your post while googling Indolplex and read about your struggle with weight, thyroid, etc. I swear it is my history as well as my son who is only 14. Hair loss, weight battle when practically starving, low temperatures, high reverse T 3 labs, fatigue, etc. I would encourage you to look up two things. Heavy metal toxicity which can interfere with the endocrine systems (thyroid and adrenals) as well as "mysterious invisible" chemicals which increase estrogen in the body (xenoestrogens.) Just FYI, blood tests are not accurate for detecting heavy metals except in the case of acute exposure. A urine test WITH PROVOCATION (taking about 500 mg of oral DMSA) which will provoke the metals stored in the body to be excreted in the urine. Without the provocation test, your urine test for heavy metals will probably look "normal" when your body load can be quite high. Genova Diagnostics makes a good heavy metal test, but you need to remember to use DMSA oral dose of about 500 mg for an accurate test. Testing for xenoestrogens can be done also through urine testing but, you probably should save your money and just figure you carry a fairly high load of these toxic chemicals and endocrine disruptors since everything in our world is SURROUNDED in PLASTIC! Herbicides, plastics, pesticides, etc all interfere with the endocrine system. You can only get rid of these types of chemical toxins with a far infared sauna (sadly not cheap) and sweating, avoiding these chemicals as much as possible. Heavy metals can be eliminated with chelation, rectal chelation being the cheapest and safest, although not the fastest. Normally, I never post at these sites, but found your history so similar to my own and heartbreaking, I had to write. I am using chelation and sauna, and slowly improving. Detoxify or Die by Dr. Sherry Rogers MD is a good book to start with for more information.
    Thanks for posting man, I used to just read but the ppl here are really great and there is very little flamming that happens. Not much trolling either. And when it happens most tend to just ignore it and laugh it off. Good info posted. I feel many of us in the bodybuilding/performance enhancing world lose sight of these more natural ways to clear our metabolic pathways of estrogen clearence, and mineral cascades. I look forward to reading more of what you have to say on anything and everything related to health
    RecoverBro ELITE
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    late sub


    I dont quite have the same issues you do but am an insomniac, i had a sleep study done when i was 17 and will have another early Jan. I am 27 now. Ive been on at least 3 prescripion sleeping pills since I was 20, before 20 i was just on 1. I somewhat know your pain.
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