Cutting isn't working out. Why?

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    Cutting isn't working out. Why?


    I'm doing the lean gains approach... 16 hour fast 8 hour feed...

    Lifting 3 day split
    Cardio is 2 days 30-45 min

    Body type: sucks.... I gain fat easily and hold it even better... Hard to gain muscle at all....


    Diet 12 noon protein shake with milk and

    Workout

    Meal 2: 10oz chicken and greens with 3oz meat and veggie also

    Meal 3: lean meat 8oz with veggies and protein shake

    Should be gettin results but i feel as if my muscles are getting smaller and fat staying the same

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    I'm doing the lean gains approach... 16 hour fast 8 hour feed...

    Lifting 3 day split
    Cardio is 2 days 30-45 min

    Body type: sucks.... I gain fat easily and hold it even better... Hard to gain muscle at all....


    Diet 12 noon protein shake with milk and

    Workout

    Meal 2: 10oz chicken and greens with 3oz meat and veggie also

    Meal 3: lean meat 8oz with veggies and protein shake

    Should be gettin results but i feel as if my muscles are getting smaller and fat staying the same
    If that's all you're eating, even with Lean Gains, it's not a lot, and honestly, is going to be more detrimental than beneficial for you, even for fat loss - I wouldn't even eat that little if I was trying to STARVE myself (I DON'T starve myself ever, just to note!), and it literally IS going to be close to "starvation" calories for you likely. You need to find out what your Maintenance calories are; then, for fat loss, anything up to ~500 calories less than Maintenance is recommended, although I recommend starting out at only ~200 calories below for a week or so and see how that goes. I also recommend not staying below Maintenance all the time, and adjusting your nutrition on a weekly basis, dependent on your results from that week.
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    What's your maintenance calories (BMR + activities)? LeanGains advocates 20% above maintenance on working days and 20% below maintenance on off days. I didn't see any mention of calories or how you're cycling them.
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    My bmr is 2717 calories.... I believe I'm getting close to 2200.... Shakes are 400 calories each.. That's 800... Chicken and greens and meat sometimes a starchy carb are another 600-700 Usually diner is around 500 or so... I also throw in some pb for another 200... Which totals around 2100 calories.... And being skinny fat I think this would be ideal.... On workout days usually add another 300 calories somewhere...

    Or am I way off?!?
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    For lunch today on a off day was a calculated 736 calories.
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    If your BMR is 2700, and you're doing activities on top of it, let's say 500cal, that puts you at a maintenance of 3200 calories. If you're really only eating 2500 calories on working days, you have a deficit of 7000 cal. That's pretty low to maintain, but not completely unreasonable. I'd increase calories on working days though, to at least maintenance.

    Do you use a calorie tracker, like livestrong.com? That really helped me dial in calories and nutrients. You may want to consider tracking for a few days to see where you're at for calories to be sure.

    You can always bump up your cardio to more days, that works pretty well. I've gone up to 2hrs a day, 6 days a week on top of weights 5 times a week, but that was contest prep. Weight dropped off though!
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    I meant to say it's 2700 with activities. I used the bmr of 1976 which I got usin the formula and times it by 1.375 to get the roughly 2700 calories including exercise... So I'm thinking I might be close or I'm totally off... I've been lifting for a steady two years and so far my results blow....

    Went from 175 skinny fat to 190 skinny fat... I was up to 215 at one point and fat... Now at 195 still skinny fat...

    I am looking to be 180-185 at 10%-12 percent but idk what I keep doing wrong...

    My friends got jacked quick without a diet at all... Just lifting 4 times a week... Or got ripped within two months.... Me jus staying skinny fat....

    Invade your wondering here's my off day lunch high fat high protein low carb.

    Burger 1/2 pound. 37 fat 31 protein 1 carb
    Pulled pork 6 fat 16 protein 16 carb
    Energy drink (I know bad for you but low carb one) only 30 calories and 9 carbs)

    That added up to about 600-700 calories..

    Dinner will be big about another 1000-1200 calories

    N before bed a shake with 280 in it... 3 fat 8 carb 48 protein blend of whey, egg, casien.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    I meant to say it's 2700 with activities. I used the bmr of 1976 which I got usin the formula and times it by 1.375 to get the roughly 2700 calories including exercise... So I'm thinking I might be close or I'm totally off... I've been lifting for a steady two years and so far my results blow....

    Went from 175 skinny fat to 190 skinny fat... I was up to 215 at one point and fat... Now at 195 still skinny fat...

    I am looking to be 180-185 at 10%-12 percent but idk what I keep doing wrong...

    My friends got jacked quick without a diet at all... Just lifting 4 times a week... Or got ripped within two months.... Me jus staying skinny fat....

    Invade your wondering here's my off day lunch high fat high protein low carb.

    Burger 1/2 pound. 37 fat 31 protein 1 carb
    Pulled pork 6 fat 16 protein 16 carb
    Energy drink (I know bad for you but low carb one) only 30 calories and 9 carbs)

    That added up to about 600-700 calories..

    Dinner will be big about another 1000-1200 calories

    N before bed a shake with 280 in it... 3 fat 8 carb 48 protein blend of whey, egg, casien.
    If your BMR is ~2000 calories, and you're eating 2200 on off days, then you're not in a deficit.

    I think your estimated exercise burn might be a bit high. I estimate mine to only be 600-700 lifting hard for 1.5 hours (total time, not working time), and coming out dripping sweat.

    You'd be making slow progress if you were eating ~2500 and burning 2600-2700 on working days.

    Overall it doesn't look like much of a deficit to be honest compared to BMR and maintenance. I'd try to keep calories where they are on your 3 lifting days and actually drop calories on non-lifting days to be ~20% below your non-working maintenance (drop activity calories).

    See how that works for you, or let me know where I might be missing something...
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    Ya to be honest I am in the gym on average 1 hour.. 1 hour 15 min. I'm gonna up my intestity now. Having a hard time lifting heavy weight on bench.

    I'm going 3 days lifting as of right now.
    Cardio at 2 days 30 min session

    Maybe I need to eat less... But when I do everyone on here gets on my case about starving myself etc etc...
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    I don't give much credence to the whole starvation thing if you're not losing anything. If you're losing weight and strength then there's an issue IMO. Rosie will probably chew me out

    Really though, find what works for you regardless of the forums. We give you ideas and it's up to you to find the right fit.
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    eating 2200 cals on non workout days and 2 days of 30-45 minute cardio.

    thats your problem.

    try doing 1500 cals on non workout days, 2800 on workout days, with cardio every day, or AT LEAST 4 days a week.

    also make sure to not take diphenhydramine - it kills testosterone levels and blunts GH.
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    See that's what I thought.... Everyone says you need rediclous amounts of calories but how true is this.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    See that's what I thought.... Everyone says you need rediclous amounts of calories but how true is this.?
    you can eat 2200 cals...but if you're an endomorph like you think you are, you can't sit around not doing cardio.

    rosie is a classic example of someone who exercises a ton, and eats a ton. she doesnt eat a ton and not exercise. im willing to bet if she ate her same diet and didn't do cardio, she wouldnt look like she does!

    edit : ''Everyone says you need rediclous amounts of calories but how true is this.?''


    obviously your estimated BMR isn't what you think it is, or you would lose weight/fat. what are you going to believe, the mirror/scale or some calculation?
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    True I think I have a very low metabolism or maybe low test... I just got checked for test should have results next week...

    Is it possible to hold onto muscle with just 1200-1500 calories? Maybe superload bcaa with daa n extra gulatmine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    See that's what I thought.... Everyone says you need rediclous amounts of calories but how true is this.?
    What we are recommending is not "ridiculous amounts of calories" - we are telling you to find what is optimal for YOU re fat loss, and not go too low.


    Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    you can eat 2200 cals...but if you're an endomorph like you think you are, you can't sit around not doing cardio.

    rosie is a classic example of someone who exercises a ton, and eats a ton. she doesnt eat a ton and not exercise. im willing to bet if she ate her same diet and didn't do cardio, she wouldnt look like she does!

    edit : ''Everyone says you need rediclous amounts of calories but how true is this.?''

    obviously your estimated BMR isn't what you think it is, or you would lose weight/fat. what are you going to believe, the mirror/scale or some calculation?
    Endomorphs don't have to do cardio, but they DO need to be smart about their nutrition and training and ensure that it is OPTIMAL FOR THEM for their goals.

    I'm going to correct you when it comes to me, bud, since you're making a LOT of statements that are nothing but INcorrect assumptions. I do NOT "exercise a ton", neither do I do a lot of cardio; in fact, my training is a lot less than most people here. When I have time out from training my nutrition does not change from what it is when I am training (even though it should a little), not to mention that I have eaten far more than what I currently do or the same amount withOUT any cardio, and can maintain my leanness - after all, cardio is IRrelevant to fat loss, and resistance training does a lot more at maintaining leanness and leaning out than cardio will ever do. It's all about KNOWING YOUR BODY, what you can and can't do and get away with, and working with that!

    As far as the OP's Maintenance, you do have to remember that any Maintenance estimation calculation is just an ESTIMATION - hence why I recommend adjusting your nutrition, etc. weekly based on the results from that week.


    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    True I think I have a very low metabolism or maybe low test... I just got checked for test should have results next week...

    Is it possible to hold onto muscle with just 1200-1500 calories? Maybe superload bcaa with daa n extra gulatmine?
    I wouldn't even recommend 1,200-1,500 calories for a FEMALE for fat loss, let alone a male. At only 1,200-1,500 calories a day, you're going to GUARANTEE yourself muscle mass loss, probably far more muscle loss than fat loss, and put yourself in a very far from ideal situation, IMO.

    Glutamine is useless, IMO - unless you are a completely sedentary individual looking for a minor immune system boost.

    I suggest that you stop look at what supplements you can use and focus instead on your NUTRITION AND TRAINING, since those are the two factors that are going to determine your progress and results!

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    Being a endomorph should I stop lean gains and go back to 6 small meals?

    Maybe about 300 calories each? Seems like that would be a good place to start...

    Also I'm gonna lift for 3 days and try to get cardio in 4 days a week also....
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    If that works for you, then yes. If it doesn't, try something else. What has worked for you in the past?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    Being a endomorph should I stop lean gains and go back to 6 small meals?

    Maybe about 300 calories each? Seems like that would be a good place to start...

    Also I'm gonna lift for 3 days and try to get cardio in 4 days a week also....
    You can continue with Lean Gains or go back to six small meals - your choice. There is no "one size fits all" approach; you have to find what works for YOU. Start off with a "base" nutrition plan (and training programme) and adjust it weekly based on your results from that week, so that you get and continue making progress in the desired direction.

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    Well honestly I been lifting for two years and if you saw me walking down the street you wouldn't even know I go to the gym... So I still haven't found what works for me yet... But this will be the first time I do lots of cardio...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machwon1 View Post
    Well honestly I been lifting for two years and if you saw me walking down the street you wouldn't even know I go to the gym... So I still haven't found what works for me yet... But this will be the first time I do lots of cardio...
    I honestly feel similar to you. It's very incremental until something drastic changes. For me, I got control when I started tracking my nutrition. Before that I would go up and down, and have only macro control over my body (i.e., big and fat or small and weak). Now I'm finding a much better balance, and I can add mass and strength by controlling calories/protein/carbs/fat, etc. and how much exercise I do versus what I eat.

    Like Rosie always says, nutrition and training are tops. In my estimation, it's 70% diet, 25% training/recover, and 5% supplements.

    Most people say "diet is covered/under control/good/on point" but in reality that is where they are faltering. For me, I have to track what I eat online to make sure I'm getting the right food in a 24hr period. It's not straight chicken and rice for me every meal / every day (that's another route to plan meals and remain consistent, but I like variety!), so I "estimate" through Livestrong.com what I'm taking in and burning off. It's a little extra effort, yes, but the reward is worth it... PROGRESS!!!

    I always busted my butt in the gym, but the other 22.5hrs of the day were not as focused. Focusing on nutrition and training FIRST AND FOREMOST is what makes the biggest difference IMO (until you start using steroids and hgh, even then it's vitally important).
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    Sounds good to me. I will try it again. Watching what I eat...
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    Damn bro thats almost nothing. Get on a real diet and eat 6-7 times a day, small healthy portions. Bump up the training a bit. Its not easy to make changes to your body.
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    im an endo, i build mass easily(LBM) but i also gain fat easily too, when cutting heres what i do- i eat 2500 cals- every day(even on off days)

    but on off days, im still active doing 30-40 minutes cardio

    and i have a job where im on my feet for 6-12 hours which increases my caloric needs


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    More squats and deads.

    More food.
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    I'm on the lean gains so it's only a 8 hour window... So 6-7 meals is out... I get about 1800 on off days and 2500 on gym days... I think it's starting to work since I posted this up and got some advice.

    Also everyone told me to eat big well I did that last winter got up to 217lbs and it's been mostly fat and the diet was clean also... Just some people don't need 5000 calories a day that's all...
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    you needto learn about diet....
    also never fast, eat many small meals ed, lower on carbs and overall keepign your total cals just below matinance.
    when on empty have ascoop of whey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    If that's all you're eating, even with Lean Gains, it's not a lot, and honestly, is going to be more detrimental than beneficial for you, even for fat loss - I wouldn't even eat that little if I was trying to STARVE myself (I DON'T starve myself ever, just to note!), and it literally IS going to be close to "starvation" calories for you likely. You need to find out what your Maintenance calories are; then, for fat loss, anything up to ~500 calories less than Maintenance is recommended, although I recommend starting out at only ~200 calories below for a week or so and see how that goes. I also recommend not staying below Maintenance all the time, and adjusting your nutrition on a weekly basis, dependent on your results from that week.
    i agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    you needto learn about diet....
    also never fast, eat many small meals ed, lower on carbs and overall keepign your total cals just below matinance.
    when on empty have ascoop of whey.
    When using diets/lifestyles such as Leangains / IF you're suppose to do fasting everyday and eating large meals. Carbs, Fat, Protein doesn't matter per se, as long as you follow the method right and you eat less then you body burns you'll drop in weight.


    OT: I would like to see how your intake with liquids are, you meantioned an Energy drink somewhere, but what else do you drink during the day ? Are you purely drinking diet sodas, water or juice ?
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    Ya look up leangains blergs it seems to work well.

    Eizbear as far as liquids I drink one energy drink a day... Not good for me but I love em... Also the rest is about 1-1.5 gallons of water... I cut out diet soda and really no juices...
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    i love fasting . its actually becoming an addiction lol. i wake up more cut and i can eat large awesome meals. i can get work done without worrying about eating every 5 seconds. i dont stay hungry through the day, i dont have energy crashes, and i don't have to pre package food.


    fasting > 6-7 meals a day nonsense x 10
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    On Livestrong.com, if you set your goal to lose weight/week and it tells you 1600 cal/day, I eat 1600 to drop weight, and then increase intake on workout days by the amount of cal. I estimate I'm burning? It is already taking into account the deficit I need to drop weight, correct?
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    rememebr those BMR calcs are not always right... some people are just different. I have a SLLLLOOOOWWW metabolism plus a deskjob. for me I can take in 2000 cals/day and not lose a single pound. over 2000 and I am gaining weight... I am currently cutting at 1500 which some people say is ridiculous but any more than 1500 and I wont lose weight. I lift 5 days a week, I lift heavy as possible for 1- 1.5 hours. at 1500 cals on a cut, my lifts are still going UP!!! so... take everything with a grain of salt.

    everyone is different.
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  33. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    rememebr those BMR calcs are not always right... some people are just different. I have a SLLLLOOOOWWW metabolism plus a deskjob. for me I can take in 2000 cals/day and not lose a single pound. over 2000 and I am gaining weight... I am currently cutting at 1500 which some people say is ridiculous but any more than 1500 and I wont lose weight. I lift 5 days a week, I lift heavy as possible for 1- 1.5 hours. at 1500 cals on a cut, my lifts are still going UP!!! so... take everything with a grain of salt.

    everyone is different.
    have any idea how to figure out a calorie burn estimate for HIIT? I realize, a person can do HIIT with many different activities, duration, etc. The only real constant is intensity, that you are all out.
  34. Senior Member
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    nope, no idea... just estimate and adjust based on weight loss/gain
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    I'm on LeanGains right now and I'm dropping weight drastically and yet consuming MORE calories than you are. Add on top of that I'm about the same weight that you are and I have hypothyroidism which essentially makes any kind of weight loss a long and painful process.

    According to the LeanGains system, you need to consume roughly 50-60% of your calories during your post workout feeding window and then 3 other meals afterwards. That is the recommended protocol to follow. Yes, you are consuming somewhere around 50% post workout, but that is because you are only consuming 1 other meal after that.

    What these guys are saying with caloric intake is not impossible. If you were to add in another serving of something, let's say a couple cans of tuna as an example, and another carbohydrate source and some veggies than you would be one step closer. Add to that a meal right before bed that would be a slow digesting protein, such as a a dairy product [yogurt or cottage cheese] or egg whites.

    One other improvement that I'd recommend is to stop consuming that protein shake preworkout. The idea is to train fasted - which is somewhat negated by drinking a protein shake before the gym. Try to get your hands on some simple BCAA powder and drink that before the gym, and then sip while working out. It should help.
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    I think it was covered here pretty well, but just to reiterate the point of cutting (especially as a natural and not a hormonally-supplementing lifter) is not to starve yourself but to progressively chip away at your fat over a period of several weeks. There actually comes a point where if you consume so few calories a day your body goes into survival mode where it slows its metabolism dramatically and stores fat. Just look at all the skinny-fat people in the world. They eat so little in an effort to not get fat, yet they carry a great deal of flab around their waist.

    It's important to find out what your maintenance calories first before figuring out what your cutting diet will look like (usually maintenance-300 or -500 calories per day). Or if you do LeanGains, again first know your maintenance.
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    Need more meals. Keeps your metabolism steady, keep out carbs other than rice/veggies on your final meal.
  38. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chandlerbing View Post
    Need more meals. Keeps your metabolism steady, keep out carbs other than rice/veggies on your final meal.
    BROSCIENCE... FAIL.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    ^^^ x 2
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    How many weeks have you been doing it? Maybe that strategy is not fitted for your body type.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/member.php?u=135383
  

  
 

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