Loosing weight while retaining strength....

[JudoJosh]

I know it is possible but how hard of a task am I looking at? Am I better off trying to recomp? I mean if I cut back calories, take a fat burner for extra support (ECA+CLA I am thinking of trying but got some other products I am eyeing), and continue to lift the same routine that I do now with the same weights, will I lose bodyfat while keeping my strength? Or will my strength suffer while the fat goes. I am talking about a 25lb weight loss quest for reference. I kno it is very hard to loose weight and loose only bodyfat and not muscle, just wanted to see how feasible my goal actually is

Goal- Loose 25lbs weight and keep all my major lift numbers at least where they are now

 

[GeekPoop]

Youll lose strength. Go for your cut, you'll be surprised how fast strength rebounds.

 

[JudoJosh]

well I just finished a hdrol cycle and gained mainly strength and not much weight. Should I try and just maintain this strength for awhile before I go for the cut? Or just go for the cut cuz since I already got to this strength level it should come back fast enough or try and maintain it for awhile before cutting

 

[sonicwaste]

There are an absolutely exorbitant amount of factors and variables involved in your question and answer...I could talk for hours.

But I will be simple.

Invariably strength goes up and down when cutting... Some of the main variables include: water balance, glycogen, % change in LBM, and energy level. However there are more.

Cutting is a means to an end. Going from point A to point Z.

My best advice is to leave the strength ego before you start cutting. Unless you are a performance athlete, powerlifter, or ego-maniac... strength in lifting weights is no big deal.

Sure your strength may temporarily go down... As long as you aren't losing LBM, it will come back. And it is possible to maintain strength while cutting. But, again there are many variables.

The most important thing to maintaining strength long term, is to make sure you aren't losing LBM. That's it.

You find what works for you. Cutting/Dieting is a series of ups and downs, and you have to get over it. The ups and downs are physiological, physical, and mental. It's part of the game.

But as a general rule to maintain LBM while calorie restricted, you need to lift heavy. And you need to make sure you don't over train.

Many people approach a cut with the idea that they have to amp up the workouts, lift with high reps and high volume... And they assume they must to metabolic workouts at high intensity and high frequency (meaning increasing the amount of days lifting.) This just isn't the case.

Lift in the realm of heavy. If you want to add metabolic type workouts in there... There is nothing wrong with that, but just make sure that is done at a reasonable volume and frequency and always after heavy lifting is complete. For instance 3 sets in the 6-8 rep range followed by 3-4 sets in the 10-12 maybe to 15 range. You could even go a bit lower in rep range.

You just want to make sure you do lift heavy and don't overtrain... that's the idea in the most simplest form...

Like I said before, there are a myriad of variables to take into consideration... but you have to start somewhere

 

[tuberman]

[quote/]Goal- Loose 25lbs weight and keep all my major lift numbers at least where they are now[/quote]

Keep protein levels high, take in extra 4:1:1 BCAAs, and work out at fairly high intensity and you won't lose much strength.

Also, keep taking staple supps such as creatine and fish oil. And one more important thing, as you diet check your temps as you go along. If your temperatures start to fall your thyroid or leptin system may need assistance to keep you losing weight without going catabolic.

 

[JudoJosh]

Just what I wanted to hear and what I was thinking. I know what you mean about the high volume lifting. Alot of people go for the 10-15 rep range when trying to tone and cut, I was thinking if I stay with my 4x6/4/3/2 set/rep range my strength should stay the same and my diet/cardio/supps will help me attack body fatand hopefully spare muscle

 

[sonicwaste]

High volume training in the form of depletion workouts does have it's place though... It always should be coupled with heavier workouts though. It's about balance.

 

[JudoJosh]

Keep protein levels high, take in extra 4:1:1 BCAAs, and work out at fairly high intensity and you won't lose much strength.

Also, keep taking staple supps such as creatine and fish oil. And one more important thing, as you diet check your temps as you go along. If your temperatures start to fall your thyroid or leptin system may need assistance to keep you losing weight without going catabolic.

Can you elaborate more on checking my tempature for falling thyroid or leptin.. thanks

 

[JudoJosh]

High volume training in the form of depletion workouts does have it's place though... It always should be coupled with heavier workouts though. It's about balance.

So what would you recomend workout wise? My current routine is a full body push and pull routine split up as bilateral pull/ bilateral push/ unilateral pull/ unilateral push and cardio in the form on sled drags, HIIT running and cycling, and swimming. Any recomendation you can make about adjust my workout to save as much muscle would be great!!

Also as far as diet I was going to go with anabolic diet and stack high dose CLA with a ECA stack.

What you think bud??

 

[sonicwaste]

The anabolic diet is decent, as far as cookie cutter diets go... My mentality has shifted away from diets high in dietary fats, as a general rule.

I'm not saying the diet doesn't have its place. You shouldn't maintain training intensity that you described on such a diet. This will lead to over training and eventual burnout in the long run, if not the short term.

On this type of diet, cardio is best kept to SS low to medium intensity and not with high frequency. Weight training should be heavy with lower frequency 2-3 times per week.

 

[sonicwaste]

Can you elaborate more on checking my tempature for falling thyroid or leptin.. thanks

The only way to accurately check, is to get tests done... in my opinion. Checking your temperature upon waking can give indications one way or the other, but should not be taken as am absolute.

 

[tuberman]

JJ,

Yep, take your temp several times with a decent thermometer when you start the diet. That sets a baseline. And if it seems very low (more than say 1.2 degrees or more below 98.6 F), check for hypothyroid condition. Same thing if your temp falls much below your starting baseline as you lose weight. This happens a lot after a few weeks. Our bodies don't like to lose weight at any speed at all.

First line of defence is to take kelp (for iodine) and vitamin A. These work together to increase health of thyroid allowing for more natural T3 and T4 hormones.

But, if you keep dieting long enough the leptin system will eventually shut down the thyroid and several other aspects of your metabolism. You can boost your dopamine system to fool the leptin system into allowing further quick weight loss without going too catabolic. You can start by supping tyrosine, then you can go to L-Dopa or something like PowerFULL.

The other two things that I forgot are to make sure your test is back up and your estrogen is not high, and also cortisol can keep you from losing weight.

The thyroid /leptin area can usually be covered by kelp, vitamin A and tyrosine, and various solutions exist for the others.

Come to think of it an ECA stack would probably fool the leptin system too!

 

[JudoJosh]

So I think the goal will be Anabolic diet, lift heavy full body x3 a week as I am doing know and cut cardio to only steady state cardio (will probably stick to swimming)x2 a week on seperate days...and stack some high dose CLA and a ECA stack. This sounds like the plan, what you guys think? Look solid??

 

[sonicwaste]

So I think the goal will be Anabolic diet, lift heavy full body x3 a week as I am doing know and cut cardio to only steady state cardio (will probably stick to swimming)x2 a week on seperate days...and stack some high dose CLA and a ECA stack. This sounds like the plan, what you guys think? Look solid??

What will your daily caloric defecit look like? and what is your bodyfat %?

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I havent read the entire thread but I will do so once im done posting but concerning a cut while retaining strength....yes its possible...im doing it as we speak.

The key is....you have to be patient. The goal is to lose 1lb of fat a week...not more. You have to take in a substantial amount of protein as well as BCAA's. To lose 25 lbs...it will take you approximately 25 weeks give or take.

Its a slow and meticulous process it can be done...now let me read the previous posts

 

[JudoJosh]

I am currently eating at 3k a day and maintaing weight so I plan to start it off at 3k and see how much I loose and then adjust it week by week depending on weight loss and body caliper readings. My bodyfat was at 19% halfway thorough my hdrol cycle that I am coming off now. I havent got a chance to take it again, i will tomorow Ill post it up

 

[JudoJosh]

I havent read the entire thread but I will do so once im done posting but concerning a cut while retaining strength....yes its possible...im doing it as we speak.

The key is....you have to be patient. The goal is to lose 1lb of fat a week...not more. You have to take in a substantial amount of protein as well as BCAA's. To lose 25 lbs...it will take you approximately 25 weeks give or take.

Its a slow and meticulous process it can be done...now let me read the previous posts

yeah I been subbed on your log.. been trying to follow it but its pretty long (6 pages!!) and I dont get onto the site that much How has that glycobol been working for you? I was thinking of picking up a bottle for when I get back into judo and re-introduce carbs into my eating. Also how would you rate the recreate? I was thinking about both and was gonna start looking for reviews

 

[sonicwaste]

I am currently eating at 3k a day and maintaing weight so I plan to start it off at 3k and see how much I loose and then adjust it week by week depending on weight loss and body caliper readings. My bodyfat was at 19% halfway thorough my hdrol cycle that I am coming off now. I havent got a chance to take it again, i will tomorow Ill post it up

@ 3000kcals per day, that potentially makes for a lot of dietary fats... Even if you were to push protein to BWx2... Efficiently burning free fatty acids at that point will become highly cumbersome.

Also, just as a thought in general... you won't maintain your strength on a diet such as the anabolic diet. It's been a while, but I believe the protocol is totally ketogenic for the first 2 weeks, then a small carb load. Due to water, glycogen, energy loss... you can expect a significant hit to lift strength.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Judo sonic's posts are really good...a lot of solid info

Dont do the Anabolic Diet...Look up the Metabolic Diet. Same guy, better diet more science behind it

Basically bro to set up your diet you gotta first realize...what does you body work best with? My body gains amazingly with carbs...but it also gains a lot of fat.

I stick to a very limited carb diet with abundant amount of proteins and good fats. My body personally reacts very well to this. My caloric range is approx. 500 below maintenance. I fluctuate my macros to shock my body and i incorporate 1 cheat meal a week.

I also hit a full body, high intensity routine and i push as much weight as possible while maintaining short rest intervals and medium rep range(6-12). Workouts are short and explosive.

I currently have a log up and it goes into much much more detail on everything im doing, and yes strength oes fluctuate but if diet is on the money its not a big fluctuation. If anything im showing a steady increase in strength with a number of ****ty lifts but overall no strength loss.


OH and i love judo

 

[sonicwaste]

yeah I been subbed on your log.. been trying to follow it but its pretty long (6 pages!!) and I dont get onto the site that much How has that glycobol been working for you? I was thinking of picking up a bottle for when I get back into judo and re-introduce carbs into my eating. Also how would you rate the recreate? I was thinking about both and was gonna start looking for reviews

Personally, I tend to like like glycobol on a bulk as opposed to a cut or maintenance..> However a product like anabolic pump/p-slin combo is absolutely perfect for a cut or maintenance

 

[JudoJosh]

AD was what I was doing while on my hdrol cycle to try and minimize fat gain and my strength went up thanks to the hdrol. My goal now is too keep it and lose some BF.. AD has been the only diet I have done and has worked fine for me. And yea my dietary fats are kinda high around 180g give or take.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

yeah I been subbed on your log.. been trying to follow it but its pretty long (6 pages!!) and I dont get onto the site that much How has that glycobol been working for you? I was thinking of picking up a bottle for when I get back into judo and re-introduce carbs into my eating. Also how would you rate the recreate? I was thinking about both and was gonna start looking for reviews

I would be more then happy to break down everything for you from beginning to present, its just gonna take awhile. I also have a lot to attribute to more experienced lifters like MrKleen7 and DreamWeaver. Everything i know now with my cut is due to them and several others. Andrew 732 is another reliable source.

Glycobol works great for cutting. I have been enjoying it thoroughly and i think for me personally its going to be my cutting nutrient partitioner. Anabolic Pump is my preferred NP for strength, maintenance, and bulking.

Recreate is also another amazing cutting and recomping tool...personally...Im using the new OEP...now revealed on Nutra website and i feel this is far better then recreate for cutting. Actually if you have the funds to stack them with some glycobol or cycle the two, that would be phenomenal.

I would rate recreate 9/10.....only b/c i tried the new OEP which is 10/10. But with recreate i was able to steadily drop my goal of 1lb a week like clock work.

 

[JudoJosh]

Judo sonic's posts are really good...a lot of solid info

Dont do the Anabolic Diet...Look up the Metabolic Diet. Same guy, better diet more science behind it

Basically bro to set up your diet you gotta first realize...what does you body work best with? My body gains amazingly with carbs...but it also gains a lot of fat.

I stick to a very limited carb diet with abundant amount of proteins and good fats. My body personally reacts very well to this. My caloric range is approx. 500 below maintenance. I fluctuate my macros to shock my body and i incorporate 1 cheat meal a week.

I also hit a full body, high intensity routine and i push as much weight as possible while maintaining short rest intervals and medium rep range(6-12). Workouts are short and explosive.

I currently have a log up and it goes into much much more detail on everything im doing, and yes strength oes fluctuate but if diet is on the money its not a big fluctuation. If anything im showing a steady increase in strength with a number of ****ty lifts but overall no strength loss.


OH and i love judo

thanks for the judo love!! Yea I am subbed on that log bud.. check my previous post Metabolic diet.. hmm gotta look into that one. And its by maurio dipsquale? I was gonna look into some of lyle mcdonalds books aswell. I been on AD for quite some time and am ready for a change of pace.

Personally, I tend to like like glycobol on a bulk as opposed to a cut or maintenance..> However a product like anabolic pump/p-slin combo is absolutely perfect for a cut or maintenance

Awesome!! I actually have a couple boxes of p-slin!! Dont have any AP sadly.. should have jumped onto that AP+recreate deal.. wonder if they still have it.. any recomendations on dosage of these??

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

thanks for the judo love!! Yea I am subbed on that log bud.. check my previous post Metabolic diet.. hmm gotta look into that one. And its by maurio dipsquale? I was gonna look into some of lyle mcdonalds books aswell. I been on AD for quite some time and am ready for a change of pace.

Yes sir dipsquale is the man!

Awesome!! I actually have a couple boxes of p-slin!! Dont have any AP sadly.. should have jumped onto that AP+recreate deal.. wonder if they still have it.. any recomendations on dosage of these??

dude pslin is the shizzna...i get ridiculously pumped on that stuff. Im gonna hit up a Asteroid stack plus pslin....oh yeah. And you know getting in a serving of pslin post-WO may help prevent strength loss during you cut....something u may wanna look into

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Personally, I tend to like like glycobol on a bulk as opposed to a cut or maintenance..> However a product like anabolic pump/p-slin combo is absolutely perfect for a cut or maintenance

haha funny how im the complete opposite!

With Anabolic pump i get a nasty full body pump that makes it hard for me to cut. Keeps my body very anabolic and great for strength gains.

 

[sonicwaste]

haha funny how im the complete opposite!

With Anabolic pump i get a nasty full body pump that makes it hard for me to cut. Keeps my body very anabolic and great for strength gains.

See for me, I am pretty sensitive to insulin. I feel that anabolic pump works better for me because of less insulin release. That's just been my personal take though.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

See for me, I am pretty sensitive to insulin. I feel that anabolic pump works better for me because of less insulin release. That's just been my personal take though.

Well it goes to show how diff people can react very diff to a given supplement. For me i feel the activation of GLUT4 shuttles the nutrients to my muscles extremely efficiently allowing for my body to stay very anabolic.

JJ this is where you have to decide which supp works better under which conditions for you. The hardest thing about cutting is that you must know ur body down to a fault in order to cut properly. Its exhausting just to do enough research but my friend IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Yo sonic Im gonna PM you with details, clear your box out im gonna send it in a little bit

 

[JudoJosh]

Well it goes to show how diff people can react very diff to a given supplement. For me i feel the activation of GLUT4 shuttles the nutrients to my muscles extremely efficiently allowing for my body to stay very anabolic.

JJ this is where you have to decide which supp works better under which conditions for you. The hardest thing about cutting is that you must know ur body down to a fault in order to cut properly. Its exhausting just to do enough research but my friend IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT.

Yea I know I am trying to get some more background info now before I dive right into it. All about working smarter and more efficient then working harder with less results right. This is how I see it..

Thanks to both of you guys for all your help!! I am gonna go diet hunting and see if I can find a plan that fits me. I might just try the scivation cut diet again (it was brutal.. so repetitive, it drove me insane :frustrate) As for my workout I am thinking to continue my full body heavy lifts to try and maintain most of the strength I gained off my hdrol run. And for supps I definetely wanna be running the p-slin, just got sure on what to stack with it. I got a couple of things at the house I might try and throw together but we'll see.

Again thanks guys :You_Rock_Emoticon:

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

well keep up posted bro

Set up a log so we can follow along

 

[JudoJosh]

I plan to.. I am gonna be logging apido-x from Axis very soon and hopefully it will help me loose some bodyfat% and water weight all put on from this hdrol cycle. I gained very minimal weight off the cycle, around 8lbs, (main goal was to increase overall strength whithout gaining too much weight) havent checked my bodyfat yet but I was 19% when I started the cycle. Finishing up PCT now and gonna see where my weight and BF is at. So far strength is sticking pretty well. After the apido run Ima be doing a log that is gonna track my fat loss journey. Gonna plan on trying to loss as much fat as possible and get my BF down alot more before I try another PH. I feel if I would have waited a little longer before I ran this hdrol the results would have been better, but live and learn right..

 

[JudoJosh]

Recreate is also another amazing cutting and recomping tool...personally...Im using the new OEP...now revealed on Nutra website and i feel this is far better then recreate for cutting. Actually if you have the funds to stack them with some glycobol or cycle the two, that would be phenomenal.

I would rate recreate 9/10.....only b/c i tried the new OEP which is 10/10. But with recreate i was able to steadily drop my goal of 1lb a week like clock work.

I might invest in some recreat but not sure yet. I have used jack3d before and have confidence USP put together another solid product just havent decided yet. I definetely want to try this OEP for sure. Already signed up for the inner circle and just waiting for the release :deal:

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I might invest in some recreat but not sure yet. I have used jack3d before and have confidence USP put together another solid product just havent decided yet. I definetely want to try this OEP for sure. Already signed up for the inner circle and just waiting for the release :deal:

I would like to see when you log adipo-x. Ive tried a few of axis labs supps and im on the fence.

Another supp im starting to look at is Adrenalean stacked with Powerfull.

Oh let me through this equation down for you just in case:

66+(6.23x bodyweight in lbs) + (12.7 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age)= BMR

This is what I use to calculate my BMR and i subtract or add depending on my goal.

 

[JudoJosh]

I did a equation for my calorie intake that I got from the AD book and it put me at around 3500 I believe (I think it was just BW*18) and I did one off scivation cut diet book and it had me around the same. So for the hdrol run I was trying to minimize fat gain as much as possible being I am already a little pudgy so I went with 3k and I maintained my weight and slowly, very slowly gained a couple of pounds. For the cut I was going to take the same appraoch and just start at 3k and subtract 3-500 and see how I do at a week of that. I wouldnt want to loose more then 2lbs a week, more like 1-1.5lbs would be my goal.

Lemme try your formula out and see what it gives me

66+(1308.3)+(12.7x66)-(6.8x25)=
66+1308.3+838.2-170=
2042!!!!

wow that would be a big jump from 3k. I would have to gradually work my way down to that. But not sure if I will suffer more muscle loss from such low calories.

I'll send you a link of my apido log once its up.. this will be my first experience with axis but I have high hopes after reading though some of subweevil's hemo log. I got me a bottle of hemo chillin out on my desk too and tryna figure out when to take this stuff!!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I did a equation for my calorie intake that I got from the AD book and it put me at around 3500 I believe (I think it was just BW*18) and I did one off scivation cut diet book and it had me around the same. So for the hdrol run I was trying to minimize fat gain as much as possible being I am already a little pudgy so I went with 3k and I maintained my weight and slowly, very slowly gained a couple of pounds. For the cut I was going to take the same appraoch and just start at 3k and subtract 3-500 and see how I do at a week of that. I wouldnt want to loose more then 2lbs a week, more like 1-1.5lbs would be my goal.

Lemme try your formula out and see what it gives me

66+(1308.3)+(12.7x66)-(6.8x25)=
66+1308.3+838.2-170=
2042!!!!

wow that would be a big jump from 3k. I would have to gradually work my way down to that. But not sure if I will suffer more muscle loss from such low calories.

I'll send you a link of my apido log once its up.. this will be my first experience with axis but I have high hopes after reading though some of subweevil's hemo log. I got me a bottle of hemo chillin out on my desk too and tryna figure out when to take this stuff!!

If you were bulking at 3500 then maybe you should try starting calories at 3400 and dropping progressively to 3K then down to 2.5K. I dont know if you wanna go lower then that.

Righ tnow im taking in round 2K a day.

 

[JudoJosh]

when I got down to 198lbs I was eating around 1800-2200. It was in the begining of my hdrol cycle and I think it was a huge mistake on my part for that time and goals I had.. but overall my body did good around there and I dropped the weight fairly easily, but yea definetely I would drop from 3k straight to 2k. I would make a graduall decrease and pause at certain caloire intakes where I am loosing weight and once I stop loosing weight continue to cut down on the calories..

How is 2k a day going for you? Are you lifts staying where they were at? Like I said I havent been paying close attention to your log since its sooo big. I mainly subbed to se how the recreate and glycobol did for you and to see how your diet you laid out did for you overall as I am always interested in how people eat and their results. I liked the idea of fluctuating between low card and high carb days, I assume this was dictated on how you worked out those particular days.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

My strength s staying remarkably consistant. I have good days and bad days but i am actually getting stronger if that makes any sense. My squats are heavier but im hitting the lower then ever with more reps and less rest. My bench is doing very well repping lower reps more times and my rest pause sets are still on point.

I would have to say glycobol is now my prefered cutting supplement and Recreate well def me cycled along with OEP.

The car cycling is very low range which allows me to now get the bloat i get with carbs, but it allows me to fluctuate my fat intake and use this as a means to lose pure fat. My protein intake is still over 200grams a day on average never going lower then 178 g.

I think 2k works for me b/c i think my metabolism is quite slow compared to other athletes.

I will start using much more carbs while i use AP/Pslin....ill probably bump it up to 150-200grams a day...which is a lot for me.

 

[JudoJosh]

Sounds awesome.. I might have to try and mimic your run of the glycobol and OEP with your diet and workout days and see if I get similar results... Im such a copycat!!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Sounds awesome.. I might have to try and mimic your run of the glycobol and OEP with your diet and workout days and see if I get similar results... Im such a copycat!!

Go for it bro! I can give you all the details you want man.

 

[JudoJosh]

Go for it bro! I can give you all the details you want man.

If you can PM me a general guideline you followed for diet, training and supps (and some basic reasoning behind why certain days are set up certain ways, i.e diet and workout wise, or supplement timing) that would be un-frickin-belieable, but if your busy I can just read though your log and try and piece something together...

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

If you can PM me a general guideline you followed for diet, training and supps (and some basic reasoning behind why certain days are set up certain ways, i.e diet and workout wise, or supplement timing) that would be un-frickin-belieable, but if your busy I can just read though your log and try and piece something together...

I will be glad to, just give me a minute to do so buddy