Where can you buy ECA?
- 07-07-2009, 10:38 PM
- 07-08-2009, 08:40 AM
i heard the moon has a good taco stand that sells it
- 07-08-2009, 08:53 AM
I'd look at the UK, that far-flung outreach, almost as close as the Moon.
07-08-2009, 10:21 AM
you are going to have to buy all 3 products separately.
E - walmart ( primatene ) or walgreens/cvs (bronkaid)
A - walmart baby aspirin.
For me, the action IS the juice.
07-08-2009, 10:59 AM
Albuterol (Proventil, Ventolin)
Ephedrine (Ephed II)
Epinephrine (Adrenalin, AsthmaHaler, Bronitin Mist, Bronkaid Mist, Medihaler-Epi, Primatene Mist, EpiPen Auto-Injector, Sus-Phrine, Twinject)
Isoetharine (Arm-a-Med Isoetharine, Bronkometer, Bronkosol, Dey-Dose Isoetharine, Dispos-a-Med Isoetharine, Dey-Lute Isoetharine)
Isoproterenol (Aerolone, Dey-Dose Isoproterenol, Dispos-a-Med Isoproterenol, Isuprel, Medihaler-Iso, Norisodrine Aerotrol, Vapo-Iso)
Metaproterenol (Alupent, Arm-a-Med Metaproterenol, Dey-Dose Metaproterenol, Dey-Lute Metaproterenol, Metaprel)
Racepinephrine (AsthmaNefrin, Dey-Dose Racepinephrine, Vaponefrin)
Terbutaline (Breathaire, Brethine, Bricanyl)
07-08-2009, 11:00 AM
thankyou for that maxx. are those OTC...........is the albuterol otc?
For me, the action IS the juice.
07-08-2009, 11:14 AM
07-08-2009, 12:27 PM
You want Ephedra, it is on sale on wheycheap right now and this already has the caffeine in it. Come to think of it, this is exactly what you need less the baby aspirin if you want to go that route.
Last edited by oufinny; 07-08-2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Added a link
07-08-2009, 12:41 PM
07-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Ephedra vs. Ephedrine HCL
“Ma Huang (Ephedra) Variation in
By: Charles Curry, GET DIESEL NUTRITION founder
Name: Ephedra, Ephedra sinica, equisetina,
Commonly used names: Ma Huang, Ephedra, Ephedra sinica
What is it? Ephedra is a herb originally used to treat asthma and bronchial problems in Chinese. It has been used in Chinese medicine for over 5,000 years.
Where is it found? 40 species, grown all over the world, mainly 12 species produced in China. North American Ephedra is said to contain less ephedrine alkaloid content (not ephedrine group alkaloid content) v/s the ratios found in Chinese Ephedra. Ephedrine group alkaloids average .5 to 2.5% and up to 3.5% of the dried leaf contents. This variation of 700% is the problem when ma huang is used in dietary supplements.
What does it do? Ephedra contains ephedrine alkaloids that stimulate the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) and has a bronchial dilating effect (helps you breath better by dilating-opening the airways in the lungs). Ephedrine is also know to mildly stimulates the CNS and prevent the break down of epinephrine released by stimulation of the Central Nervous System (CNS).
A study was conducted on 10 samples of ephedra herb to determine the similarities in commercially available ephedra products compared to products containing ephedrine HCL. Ephedrine alkaloids derived from herbal sources were found to have the same effect as ephedrine HCL. The authors of this study (Gurley BJ, Gardner SF, and White LM) concluded: "the increased incidence of Ma Hung toxicity does not stem from difference in the absorption of botanical ephedrine compared with synthetic ephedrine. Rather it results from the accidental overdose often prompted by exaggerated off-label claims and a belief that “'natural' medicinal agents are inherently safe."
Ephedrine alkaloid; the same as Ephedrine HCL?
Yes and no. Ephedrine alkaloids are a group of ephedrines listed below. All ephedrine alkaloid containing plants (ephedra, sida cordifolia, etc.,) contain varying amounts of ephedrine alkaloids. Ephedrine HCL is a synthetic form of the CNS stimulating ephedrine group alkaloid called ephedrine. Pseudoephedrine HCL (found in OTC cold medication) is the synthetic form of the alkaloid pseudoephedrine, that has very little to no stimulating effect to the CNS.
In nature, the order of content amount in total ephedrine group alkaloids found in various species of ephedra is normally 1-2-4-5-3-6.
Of the 6 main ephedrine alkaloids, I am going to discuss the two most abundant and popular: Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine
1. Ephedrine - The Alkaloid ephedrine makes up 30% to 90% of total ephedrine group alkaloids in ephedra. Ephedrine is not as good as caffeine at stimulating the CNS, but when combined with caffeine, the two work in synergy because ephedrine prevents the break down of epinephrine released by the caffeine, enhancing caffeine's CNS stimulating effects.
Ephedrine is probably the most effective herbal alkaloid at stimulating a non-active Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS). Obesity can be directly linked to an inactive SNS. Ephedrine has been proven to increase in weight loss for obese individuals, but has no effect by itself in lean individuals (lean individuals do not need SNS stimulation, they just need CNS stimulation- put more fat in the blood). Caffeine by itself keeps lean individuals lean by keeping circulating blood lipid levels higher than normal.
2. Pseudoephedrine - Pseudoephedrine is probably synthetically produced more than all other ephedrine group alkaloids put together because of its approved use in OTC respiratory formulas, and cold medications. Pseudoephedrine does not raise blood pressure and stimulate the CNS to the degree of ephedrine. I have noticed that when isolated away from ephedrine it has little to no CNS stimulation at all. When combined synthetically or naturally with ephedrine, and the other ephedrine alkaloids, pseudoephedrine increases the CNS stimulating properties of ephedrine. This is why all ephedrine group alkaloid content is now required on a dietary supplement label.
With the wide variation of ephedrine alkaloid concentration in dietary supplements, it is possible to get a product with 18mg of ephedrine alkaloids, and 30mg of the other ephedrine group alkaloids without it being listed. A few companies still list ephedrine content as ephedrine alkaloids, and you cannot tell if they are referring to total group alkaloids, or just ephedrine alkaloids. I have also seen companies not list ephedrine content at all because it’s "proprietary", meaning they include that in their secret formula.
Why is this important? Say you tried an ephedra-containing product that consisted of 20mg of ephedrine alkaloids per serving (even though the product really contained 20mg of ephedrine group alkaloids with 10mg of the alkaloid ephedrine). After about 6 weeks you decided to take a different ephedra containing dietary supplement, and the label reads 20mg of ephedrine alkaloids per serving. Same as before right.....WRONG! Come to find out that product may really contain 20mg of ephedrine alkaloids, twice the amount of ephedrine as the previous product. You may take it the same way as before, but now you are at a greater risk for side effects or complications because you are getting 20mg of ephedrine per serving not 10mg.
Ephedra use in dietary supplements is not standardized. The FDA puts limits on the amount of ephedrine group alkaloids dietary supplements can suggest for use in one day (100mg in any 24 hours). But 100mg of the alkaloid ephedrine in 24 hours is way more dangerous than 100mg of ephedrine group alkaloids where less than 50% of the total alkaloids are ephedrine. Both products meet the FDA's limit because they do not put a specific limit on ephedrine alkaloid itself, just total group alkaloids. This variation is why I believe some products seem to be way stronger as pre-workout energizers than other because they all have varying amounts of ephedrine alkaloids in the total ephedrine group alkaloid content. The product with more ephedrine alkaloid is going to make you more jittery, having greater CNS stimulating properties.
As mentioned previously, with about 40 species of ephedra grown all over the world, and depending on species, parts used (aerial, stem, leaf or a combination of stem and leaf), harvesting, and extraction techniques, you will get varying amounts of ephedrine group alkaloid mixtures. Ephedrine is usually in the range of 30 to 90% of the total ephedrine group alkaloids. Currently there are USP standards being developed for some of the more popular dietary supplement ingredients, and hopefully this will lead to the requirement of ephedrine alkaloid content on supplement labels v/s the ephedrine group alkaloid content. This is the reason I believe doctors and the FDA would recommend the use of drugs to help someone, v/s herbs because from their
viewpoint, drugs produce more side effects than herbs, but drugs dosage can be made accustomed to the individual using the product in accordance to age, weight and sex. Also drugs are standardized for a more exact USP weight and variation from product to product and pill to pill than herbs.
ONE CAPSULE/TABLET HIGH EPHEDRINE SUPPLEMENTS
When a product has 20 to 25mg or more of ephedrine in one tablet, you cannot adjust the dosage in proportion to weight. At 25mg of ephedrine per tablet or capsule you are putting more ephedrine in the smallest dose possible than needed by first time users, and smaller individuals. Someone who weighs 110 pounds should not consume ephedrine in the same dosage as someone 220lbs. Someone 220lbs does not necessarily need 50mg of ephedrine at one time either. At a jump from 25mg to 75mg ephedrine, you have a huge variation from 1 capsule to 3 capsules.
Dietary supplement companies bragging that they have a product containing high or the highest amount of ephedrine alkaloids per capsule, (20mg to 70mg plus) are going to destroy the use of Ephedra in dietary supplements. With that much ephedrine in one capsule there is no way to take 1/2 the recommended dose to assess tolerance, or to adjust dosage to bodyweight, or time of day of consumption. I doubt you will get to bed before 3am if you consume 25 to 70mg of ephedrine alkaloids before a workout after 12pm in the afternoon, and you weigh less than 140lbs, and/or have never used ephedrine products before. Some supplement companies are not going to voluntary not recommend their product to anyone or recommend a less total daily dosage depending on bodyweight because this would mean less sales, and less sales mean less profit, and less profit means less advertising, and less advertising leads to less sales, etc.
High dose ephedrine manufactures, should have minimal body weight requirements to use their "one super ephedrine serving capsule" supplement. It only takes one incident of a teenager or kid, getting into a bottle of these high ephedrine content supplements to take 2 capsules, and its over. The kid may be facing death, or serious heart problems as well as anyone under about 140lbs, who has never used these products. If you see Ephedra (Mahung, ephedrine) banned for use in dietary supplement, it will because of the inconsistency in ephedrine group alkaloid content from product to product, and/or because one of those one capsule high ephedrine content supplements caused a adverse side effect in someone. I do not understand how some manufactures can take pride in putting 50mg plus of ephedrine group alkaloids in one capsule, and not listing ephedrine content. Or setting strict standards and usage directions for individuals under a certain bodyweight, or prohibiting the use of those products from individuals whom have never used ephedra products before.
07-08-2009, 02:08 PM
Ephedra Mahuang Extract (Leaves) is not the same of Ephedra (alkaloids)
so read before put wrong info here.
07-08-2009, 02:16 PM
07-08-2009, 02:20 PM
And there's more than a handful of companies using Ephedrine in their formulas anyway unlabelled. You just need to know who you're buying off.
07-08-2009, 02:31 PM
Who/what should we be buying then?
07-08-2009, 02:47 PM
07-08-2009, 02:54 PM
Sorry I'm being hit for board infractions even talking about this so I'll keep my mouth shut! There are places to buy in the US and lots of UK/Euro imports. What deal is that sorry?
07-08-2009, 03:17 PM
07-13-2009, 09:55 AM
07-13-2009, 12:30 PM