Keto and Clen

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    Keto and Clen


    Ive been cutting for 2 months and Im down to 239 10%Bf. i wanna reach 7% but my fatloss has slowed. I have been thinkin about trying keto to reach my goal. Would doin a keto diet for 3-4 wks with clen just be askin for muscle loss or would it be ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbrock View Post
    Would doin a keto diet for 3-4 wks with clen just be askin for muscle loss or would it be ok?
    It really depends on your body. The question to ask is have you done a keto diet for cutting before and if so how did it treat your body?

    I am personally not a fan completely low-carb diets as the usually make me feel like sh*t. I've found CKD to be a happy medium and is amazing for keeping muscle while cutting. Again, everybody is different, so I can't say for sure how it will work for you.

    If you decide to do the clen/keto diet thing be prepared to be lethargic as hell. A keto diet wll deplete your muscle glycogen stores (stored sugar in muscles) and add in clen which does the same...be prepared for your gym preformance to suffer and your muscles to looking "flat" (i.e. smaller).

    Here's what I think would be good options:

    1. If you've never done keto before:
    *you could just start slowly lowering your carbs over those 3-4 weeks keeping an eye on your muscle loss
    *or just lower your calories fat and carbs

    2. Try CKD, with a carb-up every one to two weeks. Keep your carb-ups clean, making sure you doing bloat out. Once your muscles are refilled with glycogen, it could give you a good idea on how much muscle you are losing.

    Either way, track your progress with pics; I find them to be a better judge than the mirror.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyno View Post
    It really depends on your body. The question to ask is have you done a keto diet for cutting before and if so how did it treat your body?

    I am personally not a fan completely low-carb diets as the usually make me feel like sh*t. I've found CKD to be a happy medium and is amazing for keeping muscle while cutting. Again, everybody is different, so I can't say for sure how it will work for you.

    If you decide to do the clen/keto diet thing be prepared to be lethargic as hell. A keto diet wll deplete your muscle glycogen stores (stored sugar in muscles) and add in clen which does the same...be prepared for your gym preformance to suffer and your muscles to looking "flat" (i.e. smaller).

    Here's what I think would be good options:

    1. If you've never done keto before:
    *you could just start slowly lowering your carbs over those 3-4 weeks keeping an eye on your muscle loss
    *or just lower your calories fat and carbs

    2. Try CKD, with a carb-up every one to two weeks. Keep your carb-ups clean, making sure you doing bloat out. Once your muscles are refilled with glycogen, it could give you a good idea on how much muscle you are losing.

    Either way, track your progress with pics; I find them to be a better judge than the mirror.
    Thats similar to what Ive been doin. But my fats arent high like a keto diet. I eat clean meats like chicken breast and tuna. The carbs I consume have normally been breakfast and PWO if I feel drained(30-50g). You see anything wrong with this?
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    Sounds solid man.

    You could also try concentrating your carbs around your workout. Like 30-50g of complex carbs 30 min before and 30-50g simple carbs during and/or after. It will give you an extra boost in the gym that can help keep your training intensity high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyno View Post
    Sounds solid man.

    You could also try concentrating your carbs around your workout. Like 30-50g of complex carbs 30 min before and 30-50g simple carbs during and/or after. It will give you an extra boost in the gym that can help keep your training intensity high.
    Thats the crazy thing bro. Im keepin almost all my muscle and I dont get fatigued till after my workout. Pretty much I didnt lose any weight/fat last week so I carbed up this weekend in hopes of restoring some glycogen. Ive never been this low bf nor have I ever tried to get down to 7%. And Im doin that to loose the love handles. Any tips on maybe picking up intensity on cardio or just keep doin what im doin and it ill come?
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    Sounds like you are doing things right, dude.

    For the love handles (a problem of mine as well), you might want to try Eviscerate by RPN or Napalm by Avant Research. I used Napalm before and it works quite well. Haven't tried Eviscerate yet, but my order is on the way. I've heard good reviews and it has Napalm in it. Add liquid or powdered clen to either for an extra punch.


    Have a few ideas. Using one or two of them might help you bust through this plateau:
    *drop 100-200 cals
    *add a "supplement," like clen or my personal favorite, albuterol
    *decrease rest periods between sets
    *add more cardio

    Then there is this:
    Getting Rid of Stubborn Bodyfat- by Lyle McDonald

    Without going into the brutally long and complicated mental computations that led me to this (and I'm still working on the overall scheme), here's my current thoughts on how to approach it.

    First and foremost, this is one of the places where morning/pre-breakfast cardio is probably crucially important.

    An hour or two before cardio, take 200 mg caffeine with 1-3 grams of L-tyrosine (NO ephedrine).

    There are two segments to the cardio:

    - The first segment is for mobilization, to get those stubborn fatty acids out of the fat cell.
    - The second segment is the oxidation part, to burn them off in the muscle.

    For the first segment of the cardio, use a machine that you don't normally use. So if you normally do the treadmill, do the first segment on the stairmaster or bike or something. Just make it different.

    First segment:
    warmup: 3-5 minutes
    go hard: 5-10 minutes. I mean hard, as hard as you can stand for the entire time. This will NOT be fun on lowered blood glucose. I've considered putting intervals here but haven't found the data I need to make up my mind. If you do intervals, go something like 5X1' all out with a 1' break (10' total intervals)

    Rest 5', just sit on your butt, drink water, try not to puke.

    Go to your normal cardio machine. Do at least 30 minutes at moderate/high moderate intensity (below lactate threshold but decent intensity). I'd say 45' maximum here but I'm still making up my mind and looking at data.

    Go home, and wait and hour before having a small protein meal (25-50 grams or so). No dietary fat. 2-3 hours later, go back to normal diet eating. Your daily calories shouldn't be any different than they were already, they are just distributed differently, you only have 100-200 immediately after cardio, and then the rest afterwards.

    I'd do that maybe 3 days per week to start, and see what happens.

    Why this works

    To get stubborn fat mobilized, you have to overcome a fairly severe resistance in terms of both blood flow and lipolysis, this requires very high concentrations of catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline). Sadly, jacking up levels of catecholamines (necessary for mobilization) limits burning in the muscle which is why you follow the high intensity with low intensity.

    Basically, you jack up levels to get the fat mobilized, and then let them fall so that the fatty acid can be burned in the muscle.

    I have a study showing that Ephedrine before intense activity lowers the catecholamine response, that's the reason for avoiding it. Studies also show a lower than normal catecholamine response as people adapt to a given type of cardio; doing a different machine will result in a higher catecholamine response than you'd other wise get.


    The bigger problem with stubborn fat has to do with:

    - Blood flow to the fat cells: which is typically very low, odds are your butt is cold to the touch compared to other areas of your body
    - It's harder to mobilize: both because of impaired blood flow, and because of adrenoceptor issues.

    Oral yohimbe (0.2 mg/kg) can be effective when used over the long term. Don't take it within 3-4 hours of taking ephedrine, and start with a half-dose to assess tolerance (some people get really freaky responses from it). IF you can find pharmaceutical yohimbine, it's far far better than the herbal version (and most of the herbal versions are crap, the only one I trust is Twinlab Yohimbe Fuel). Personally, I'd opt for alpha-yohimbine instead.
    And this:
    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...fat?page=0%2C0
    I've used it in the past a few times with great results. Started it again about a week ago. Puked after the first three workouts but I'm already starting to lean out. I hate this routine with a passion...but it works.

    Good luck bro.
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    Great info bro, you seem to be a duty expert when it comes to diets and cutting. Just started my clen today and love it!! my first time ever taking it
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    I started doin splits in my cardio in the mornings last week. So Im gonna try it his way. The topicals you suggested, does the fat usually stay gone or does it come back after your done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyno View Post
    Sounds like you are doing things right, dude.

    For the love handles (a problem of mine as well), you might want to try Eviscerate by RPN or Napalm by Avant Research. I used Napalm before and it works quite well. Haven't tried Eviscerate yet, but my order is on the way. I've heard good reviews and it has Napalm in it. Add liquid or powdered clen to either for an extra punch.


    Have a few ideas. Using one or two of them might help you bust through this plateau:
    *drop 100-200 cals
    *add a "supplement," like clen or my personal favorite, albuterol
    *decrease rest periods between sets
    *add more cardio

    Then there is this:


    And this:

    I've used it in the past a few times with great results. Started it again about a week ago. Puked after the first three workouts but I'm already starting to lean out. I hate this routine with a passion...but it works.

    Good luck bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbrock View Post
    I started doin splits in my cardio in the mornings last week. So Im gonna try it his way. The topicals you suggested, does the fat usually stay gone or does it come back after your done?
    Would trying the cardio routine and the workout together be to much? They both look good but already on a calorie deficit I do wanna lose muscle by doing both
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    Great info bro, you seem to be a duty expert when it comes to diets and cutting. Just started my clen today and love it!! my first time ever taking it
    Thanks Aaron. Glad the clen is treating you well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbrock View Post
    Would trying the cardio routine and the workout together be to much? They both look good but already on a calorie deficit I do wanna lose muscle by doing both
    I think combining them might be overkill; could be too much stress on your body.

    Adding cardio to the program will depend on your current conditioning level. If you already do a lot of it, then you can add a decent amount right off the bat. If not, then start with one or two sessions per week and add more each week as you progress thru the program.

    Atm, I do the workouts first thing in the morning in a fasted state. I drink a bcaa shake 30 min before and sometimes after depending on how I feel. Works great imo.

    You might also want to add an adaptogen like rhodiola, ashwaganha, relora, etc. They will help your body deal with the added stress that you are putting on it.

    As for the topical sh*t, you won't gain fat back after stopping if you can maintain your low levels of bodyfat. Not sure what would happen if you started gaining the weight back. You could ask the folks over at the RPN or Avant Research sections to get a more solid answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyno View Post
    Thanks Aaron. Glad the clen is treating you well.



    I think combining them might be overkill; could be too much stress on your body.

    Adding cardio to the program will depend on your current conditioning level. If you already do a lot of it, then you can add a decent amount right off the bat. If not, then start with one or two sessions per week and add more each week as you progress thru the program.

    Atm, I do the workouts first thing in the morning in a fasted state. I drink a bcaa shake 30 min before and sometimes after depending on how I feel. Works great imo.

    You might also want to add an adaptogen like rhodiola, ashwaganha, relora, etc. They will help your body deal with the added stress that you are putting on it.

    As for the topical sh*t, you won't gain fat back after stopping if you can maintain your low levels of bodyfat. Not sure what would happen if you started gaining the weight back. You could ask the folks over at the RPN or Avant Research sections to get a more solid answer.
    Im going to add the cardio. I changed my rest period on my workout today and could tell a huge diff. But on the routine you suggested: Whats the purpose of takin L-tyrosine? Also, why do I need to wait an hour after cardio to eat a small protein meal(I might could get by with a 30 min wait). Lastly bro would a small serving of oatmeal be bad after the session?
  

  
 

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