Persistant body fat - thinking about liposuction
- 04-15-2009, 06:57 AM
Persistant body fat - thinking about liposuction
Hi guys, I'm new here and I could really use your advice.
I'm 23, 5'10 and weigh 175 pounds. I had a body fat percentage calculation last week and got my results back today. 14,8%
My problem is this:
I was fat all through my teenage years, roughly 25 pounds at first, then as many as 55 between the ages of 17 and 19, when I decided to lose weight.
I managed to drop about 35 pounds and have bulked up a bit since then. No matter what I do, I can't seem to naturally lose the excess fat around my lower abs, lower back and weist, and my bottocks.
For the past 4 weeks I was on a low fat (less then 10g a day, with almost no saturated), low carb (less than 250g a day) and low sugar (less than 50g a day) diet.
Add to this I was weight training as usual 4 days a week doing cardio, plus 2 more days of cardio-only. My cardio consisted of interchanging between days of 1 hour on the treadmill at 20% incline at 7km/ph and rowing for 30 mins at the hardest resistence.
During those 4 weeks I lost less than a kg (less than 2 pounds), and since I started eating normally again, I put it back on.
For the last 4 years since losing the first amount of weight, I have spent every spring and summer trying to reduce my body fat and the only time I managed to see any results, my strength decreased by nearly 40% in most exercises (especially bench press, bicep and tricep curls).
Is there any real supplement out there than can help me get my body fat down to 10%? Or is liposuction my best option?
My sister studied nutrition and dietetics and told me that many times, for people who were fat like me, the fat cells during your teenage years get fixed to the amount of fat and your body will refuse to feed of it when dieting, but instead will feed of the muscle tissue first, and only when that's nearly completely depleted, will it feed of the fat deposits.
I've worked too hard and too long to build up the muscle I have, and now that I'm finally getting bigger, I refuse to have to lose it all in order to get ripped.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
- 04-15-2009, 07:22 AM
Maybe the response of your metabolism is too slow; check with your doctor for a lab test and check thyroid,sugar etc... is this Ok try DCP/Lean Xtreme and don`t miss add your amino`s
- 04-15-2009, 07:32 AM
I'm sorry, I don't know what DCP/Lean Xtreme is.
The doctor that took my body fat test suggested to me that I NOT try to reduce my body fat. That sounds extremely weird if you ask me, since she herself said that 12% was a normal BF% for men anyway, so why shouldn't I try to get down to it?
04-15-2009, 07:41 AM
GP's in the UK for the most part aint worth their salt.
Ive been mis-diagnosed from pillar to post over the years, her telling you 12% BF was normal is pure BS, most guys are sitting in the late teens and higher.
In short, if somethings not working, change it.
Post up a full diet and routine and be honest about it bro, weekened eating etc.
04-15-2009, 08:07 AM
Breakfast: 6x22g of crisp rice and wheat cereal bars, containing a total of 90g of carbs, 25g of sugar, 3,6g of fat (1,2 saturated), and 450 calories in total.
Then I would work out at the gym, usually taking between 1 and 2 hours.
Within 20 mins of returning home I would eat:
2 slices of low-fat turkey breast (no sauce, no side servings). This would contain approximately 50g of protein, 220 calories, and traces of fat and carbs.
Soon after that I would eat 2 more crisp rice and wheat cereal bars.
3 hours later, for my 3rd meal:
A can of tuna fish mixed with 125g of naturally sweet corn. Total of 265 calories, 22g of carbs, 2 g of fat (0.5 saturated) and 25g of protein.
Soon after, 2 more crisp rice and wheat cereal bars.
3 hours later, 4th meal:
exactly the same as before.
Again, 2 more crisp rice and wheat cereal bars.
3 hours after that, 5th meal:
same turkey breast slices.
900 from crisp rice and wheat cereal bars
440 from turkey slices
280 from tuna fish
250 from corn
Total Calories: 1,870
4g from corn
7g from crisp rice and wheat cereal bars
Total Fat: 11 grams, 3,4 saturated
180 from crisp rice and wheat cereal bars.
44 from corn
Total carbs: 224
50g from tuna
100 from turkey
Total protein: 150grams
I went off the diet about 4 days ago, and since then I have a veried diet which I don't stick to eating the same every day like I did for those 4 weeks.
As you can see, I tried my best to space the meals out so as not to eat everything in the first 8 hours of being awake and then feeling starved for the remaining 8 before sleeping.
Even after 4 weeks, I still felt hungry all during the day. At least now I can eat 3 times and actually feel full for a change.
04-15-2009, 08:37 AM
I dont know what Crisp Rice and Cereal Bars are but they sound like a very High GI food.
900 cals from a processed food source is a problem.
Whats your cardio look like? I am a firm believer in running to lose fat...
04-15-2009, 08:38 AM
I have also had success with not eating ANY type of processed food after 3pm.
No flour, sugar, processed grains etc..only lean protien, veggies, and a little fruit.
Everybody is different but its something to think about.
04-15-2009, 10:33 AM
This is from another forum really i don`t remember now but maybe can help you to reach your goals!
Good luck Bro!
The Master Thread: Cutting
Seems like too many threads being created for the same problems. Often titles will read "I'm fat! Help!" or "Help me with a diet". Well here I am going to try and set the record straight in brief layman's terms so new knuckleheads can get a grip on their nutrition when trying to cut some fat; without flooding the forums.
First thing that every new cutter should know is that there are 5 essential parts to a good weight cutting plan. I will briefly go through each one and their components. I will add links to specifics so readers can learn more. Here are the five, and in my mind, they are also in the order of importance:
1)Determinations- At the beginning of a new nutritional plan, just like a the beginning of a new training program, certain criteria and goals need to be established. If these things are not sought, your actions will likely be in vein or at least not productive as they could be. You will need to determine the following before starting your cut:
• Mesomorph, Ectomorph, Endomorph Find your type
• BMR, Body Fat, Caloric needs according to BMR and activity level
You will need these things to be able to establish an accurate and productive nutritional plan.
• BMR Calculator
• Daily Caloric Needs Use your BMR with this. There are other methods out there, they vary but are usually similar.
• Everyone needs goals, not only to create a measurable account of success but also for motivation
• If you’re dieting correctly you SHOULD NOT be losing more than 1.5-2 pounds per week. Set your goals in accordance with this. If you are losing more than this, there is a decent chance you are losing muscle. Your mileage may vary, of course.
2)The Diets- There is a seemingly infinite amount of diets out there; everywhere you look you will see a diet being advertised. Many of us are accustomed to hearing phrases like Atkins, Southbeach, Low-carb and Anabolic diet. Don’t be fooled, each of these diets and most others out there have their place, but if you’re a part of Anabolic Minds you probably have different goals then the majority population. Always pick a diet according to goals, NOT what is in or hip at the moment.
• When trying to cut, begin with determining how many calories you should be taking in by subtracting 500 from your daily caloric needs (needs that take activity level into account). After some time, you can adjust this number (500) according to your results. Again your mileage may vary.
• If you do not eat enough calories, you WILL LOSE MUSCLE and you will gain all of your fat back much easier than if you took the slow road. Slow and steady wins the race, right?
• Use Excel or another program to track your calories. I prefer excel.
• Whichever diet you decide on, you should try to consume ATLEAST four meals a day. Six or more meals a day is optimal.
• Do your best to distribute the big 3 as evenly as possible throughout these meals (protein, carbs, fats).
• Use exact measurements. There is no way you’ll be able to account for your intake if you do not use precise measurements. You do not need to have a food scale, but it is helpful. Measuring cups/spoons are very important.
• Cheating is cheating and comes with the same result as always. You cheat often enough and you will fail.
• Dieting to cut is not easy and usually isn’t fun. While there are certain things you can do to help yourself along mentally, it’s going to be tough regardless unless you’re a meth head.
•Chicken, turkey, beef, pork, fish, pretty much all meat
•Whole gain foods
•Almost all veggies
•Nuts, natural peanut butter
•Eggs, milk, cheese, yogurt
Standard: This diet is considered the standard, well balanced diet utilized by most lifters. It consists of calories 40% protein, 40% carbohydrate and 20% fats. You will determine your calories from the info in section 1. It’s important to have a well balanced diet with as few processed and fake foods as possible. Don’t skimp on those vegetables.
• These diets can be tailored to fit anyone’s preferences.
• Most other diets aside from the following 2 diets fall into this category.
The Anabolic Diet/CKD: This diet utilizes ketosis and the depletion of glycogen. It is a favorite of those cutting and has also been known to help those trying to bulk. This is my personal favorite as the food choice is great.
• This diet features a plan that focuses on a carb intake as close to 0 as possible for generally 5-6 days in a row followed by a massive “carb up” which allows muscle to refill on glycogen.
• I’m going to recommend this diet only to those who have a small to moderate amount of fat to lose. Additionally, if you aren’t mentally strong this one may be tough. Carb cravings suck.
• Anabolic Diet
TKD: This diet is similar to the CKD in that it utilizes ketosis and low carb intake to force the body to use fat for fuel instead of carbs. It differs, however in that it allows for more carb intake in and around workouts to allow for maximum performance. A little less difficult in my opinion, but still a difficult diet. Results may be slower than on CKD, but that is debated.
• In my mind these are the two most user friendly “bodybuilding” cut diets in terms of results and sustaining muscle. There are others out there, but they are less common. Stick with these and you’ll be set.
3) Training on a cut:
• Cardio is NOT mandatory. If you are utilizing your diet properly, you will not need to change ANYTHING outside of your diet to achieve some level of results.
• Training on a cut diet is for the most part similar to training on a bulk diet. While there are differences in reps/sets and weight according to specific diets and personal preference, many are able to maintain their same workout plan and achieve results. That being said, there are things you can do to improve and speed up your results.
• There are varying opinions on this subject, use your personal preference and experience to judge how you should be lifting.
• Many chose to increase reps to 12-15 or more while on cut diet.
• Extra cardio and or high intensity interval training can be used to increase results by burning more calories and hence increasing caloric deficit. Keep in mind though that too much of a deficit cause catabolism or in other words, losing the wrong kind of weight.
• Don’t read this and get all hot in the pants. Supplements are not needed to cut fat and for the most part, you will be wasting your money. Even if you chose to use the few supplements out there that do help, you will achieve NOTHING if the other steps in this process are not up to par.
• There are several types of supplements that aid in fat loss. There are stimulants, appetite suppressants and supplements that actually act on fat. There are also supplements that help to lean someone out as a byproduct of their actual function.
• DCP/ Leviathan Reloaded
• Venom Hyperdrive
• Transdermals- napalm, atomic meltdown etc.
• Green Tea or Green Tea Caps
• Anabolic Pump
• Lean Extreme
• Shred Matrix
• Yohimbe hcl
• Supplements are the LAST piece of the puzzle. LAST LAST LAST.
5) Persistence and Determination:
No one is going to lose the weight for you. No one is going to stick your diets out for you. No one is going to make you sweat in the gym but you. You live and die alone on this. For some people a support system, such as a dieting buddy, can help you along, but do not depend on anyone or anything (read:supplements) when striving for your goals. If you don’t stick to your well thought out, informed and strict plan, you WILL fail and remain the grotesque blob that you let yourself become after your ‘college’ or ‘high school football’ days that we hear about so often. Do not take shortcuts, there are none! If you fail, it’s your fault.
DISCLAIMER: This is not very in depth, there is a lot more to learn beyond these basics. I myself am just scratching the surface as far as my personal knowledge. Others will chime in with other pertinent information. I have probably posted some incorrect or challenged ideas in this thread. Feel free to correct me. Let’s stop with the senseless “OMG I’m FAT, HELP” threads. FYI: There are probably typos in here; I don't care.
04-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Agree about the crisp rice and cereal bars...they don't sound good at all!!!!
Replace it with rolled oats/protein shake, or other whole foods...focus on something lower on the GI scale.
04-15-2009, 11:24 AM
[QUOTE=lamboruns;1919273]I dont know what Crisp Rice and Cereal Bars are but they sound like a very High GI food.
900 cals from a processed food source is a problem.
Whats your cardio look like? I am a firm believer in running to lose fat...[/QUOTE]
Repped for this, but in a more generic sense, upping the cardio.
Ill take a closer look in a few hours.
04-15-2009, 01:35 PM
I'd suggest that you down your processed carb intake and up your fat and protein. For fat loss lower carbs may really help you out. And your body needs healthy fats to function properly.
You may not have lost fat because of a far too low calorie intake. What is your maintenance calorie level? you should start with eating 300 calories below that. If you eat more than a 500 calorie deficit every day, you can really detriment your fat loss process and hormone levels as well. At 1800 calories you very well could have been doing this exact thing.
04-15-2009, 01:58 PM
If the crispies or wheat cereal bars are for breakfast, drop em. Get some oatmeal, after you make it add in as much protein powder as you can without over saturating it. GOOOD stuff mate.
Its my breakfast, and I like to add a bannana on the side and some OJ, but with funds being so far negative I cant really do that so milk is all I get >.<
04-15-2009, 02:35 PM
At 15% BF, it really seems unnecessary for you to have liposuction. If you diet and lift right you should be able to lose that fat. It won't happen overnight. It may take a lot of time, but I'm sure that it will work.
04-15-2009, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I will try the same diet again, only this time I will substitute the cereal bars with various fruits and take my protein/creatine supplement as well. Hopefully this will do it.
I'll keep you posted.
04-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Eat More FATS!!!!
Babewifey had it completely right, you need more fats for your body to function properly. Fats should make up at least 20% of your caloric intake for the day to support your natural hormone production as well as keep your joints healthy. By starving your body from dietary fat you are going to end up storing more of it to compensate. Also do not be afraid of saturated fats either, they are the building blocks of testosterone. You need to re-evaluate your diet and set up a more balanced nutrition plan. Figure out your ideal caloric intake and post it up here and we will help you make a diet. Just google BMR calculator and post the results from that. You may have to take a few different ones and find the average amoung them.
Muscle Pharm Rep
04-15-2009, 09:38 PM
pmiller is right. EFAs are the key to good health, good test and fat loss.
I run upwards of 30g of EFAs per day.
04-15-2009, 09:43 PM
Ok, my BMR is 1888 and according to Harris Benedict equation, I need 2,930 calories per day, but I'm guessing this to either grow or maintain my current weight.
Should I perhaps include wholefoods like nuts in my diet for the fats? I read they have a high concentrate of fat.
04-15-2009, 10:01 PM
04-16-2009, 12:40 AM
how did you calculate your maintenance level so exactly? I hope you didn't use a chart or something cause they are worthless. your maintenance level depends on too many variables for an online chart or something out of a book to tell you what you are at.
04-16-2009, 01:42 AM
04-16-2009, 03:13 AM
Also, would a supplement containing L-Carnitine help me?
A guy at my gym suggested it to me. He used to wrestle in his teens, and a few weeks before competitions, he would use L-Carnitine during his workouts to reduce his body fat and lower his weight.
I ask because right now there is like a 70% off sale at a store near me, and as it suggests that I take it for 6 continuous weeks (at 6 to 9 pills daily) I can actually get a pretty good deal for them (prise wise).
Unfortunately, I can't post a link to them, but I can tell you they 're called PYRO-MX Leanburn by Sci-Mix, if anyone has the time to google them (it only takes a few seconds to find them) and report back on their use and effectiveness, I would really appreciate it.
Again, thanks for all for the replies. I can't thank you enough guys. It's really cool how you all chip in and help each other out.
04-16-2009, 04:53 AM
Jesus christ, i typed out a huge reply and the site had an error and didnt recover it.
Here are the cliffs
- The reason you are not losing weight is not because you arent taking a specific supplement
- Im not a fan of said supplement due to lack of quality logs and studies
- The reason you are not losing weight is your diet
- Your diet consists of poor/terrible sources of protein, simple carbs and no healthy fats
Firstly, i may be sounding a little harsh but this is the truth and the bottom line. We all hit a wall now and then, some try to go around, others try to go over, ive always found the best way is through it.
I also commend you on actually seeking out whats wrong, taking onboard what we are telling you and looking to fix it. What i will say is, all of these answers are subjective, even if they are based on studies i have read or logs ive followed, they are still my subjective views of those sources of information. In other words if someone tells you something that doesnt sound right or you think differently, dont accept it because they are in better shape than you, have an earlier join date or use big words . Research it for yourself.
04-16-2009, 10:15 AM
04-16-2009, 12:13 PM
bull**** you don't need supps to cut fat.
you cut fat by going into a caloric deficit and maintaining a heavy workload in your lifting. The fat will go away. If its not and you're maintaining your BW, then you haven't found your caloric maintenance (and thus havent been able to calculate a deficit properly).
The online calculators are bull**** they are worthless. Two guys the same shape and weight won't necessarily have the same maintenance.
If you're serious about cutting then you need to find your own maintenance. This may require getting a scale and weighing food and being a little exact for awhile. After enough time you will know what type of portions to eat to dip slightly under maintenance.
A big problem with a lot of people cutting fat is that they get into a headgame with themselves. They really want to lose a bunch of fat so they end up not eating enough and losing a bunch of muscle instead. So they always keep some fat but burn their muscle because they're in too far a deficit.
04-16-2009, 01:03 PM
First that is not a low carb diet.
Those crisp bats are really hurting your diet, along with a lower calorie intake hurting your metabolism. Babywifey and Sunny have already eluded to this.
You can cut tons of weight by a good diet and weight lifting with little to no cardio. Cardio sure does help, but it isnt needed. You can cut fat with the right intensity of weight training. You are at an ideal weight being 175 and 14% bf to lose bf and maintain weight. Remember muscles are heavier than fat so the scale lies. Go over your weight lifting regimen. Are you sweating after lifting? Do you feel like doing cardio?
My sister lost over 80 lbs by just changing her diet, with little to NO cardio. My wife lost all her baby fat from pregnancy by lifting weights and doing carido everyday. My dad lost 40 lbs from diet change alone with NO cardio whatsoever. Everyone is different, but diet is the number 1 priority to losing weight and bf. Without that, its all a lost cause. There are bunch of foods around you can supplement and improve your diet without breaking the bank. Dont feed into the hype that eating healthy is expensive. Eggs are healthy for you, so is the yoke. I eat 3-5 whole egss a day and i myself are under 10% bf. Matter of fact the chol will help your testosterone levels. Look for whole grain bread, nuts, Natty PB, SF jelly, olive oil, vinegar, chicken, fish, cottage cheese. Throw in some protein shakes and you can make a nice clean diet around any number of calories you need with sufficient protein, carb and fat values.
04-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Thanks everyone. I'm off to the super market to buy some of the stuff people mentioned.
Tomorrow I will weigh myself and go on a diet like you guys suggested. I usually sweat during my lifting when I do my back and pecs. Everything else is just sweaty armpits.
I also don't train my calfs and quads specifically as my cardio gives them a workout (20% incline walking and rowing).
04-16-2009, 10:06 PM
04-16-2009, 10:31 PM
Hey Hyperion, it sounds like you have made some great progress, and you are on your way to getting shredded if you play your cards right.
First, some good news ... your BMI and bodyfat % are both just fine. So now it is time to reframe things, shifting from a focus on weight to a focus on body composition. You may know that, but it it can't be said enough.
So cutting is the order of the day. Moreover, since your excess "health" is in a few key areas, the focus should be on getting those toned.
You've gotten a lot of great recommendations, and some advice on sifting through the tons of advice that has already been given. Some of the advice given has sounded really tough (6 consecutive days of carb deprivation, anyone?). If this has worked for whoever suggested it, more power to you, but I think that there are good results that can be had without enduring such deprivation.
Not to sound cynical, but I think the best cutting program will provide the best bang for the buck (quid?) ... as in, the best results for a reasonable amount of effort. You've already gotten some solid advice in terms of cutting out bad carbs, as well as some more stringent/programmatic recommendations.
I'd like to recommend a book that has been discussed in this forum, though probably not read as much as it should be. The book is
The Ultimate Diet 2.0
by Lyle McDonald
previewable on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=mJe6ymyZH7MC
This book has the massive advantage of being informed by the best science on the subject, being specifically formulated for bodybuilders who are in decent shape ath the outset, and perhaps most important, containing recommendations that are geared to getting maximal results without imposing the kind of hardships that make compliance go bye bye.
A key lesson of the book is that cutting, like any other important skill, is a discipline, and there is a learning process to get it right. The book lays out a of 6-8 week cutting plan, and the author makes clear that it takes several tries to get it just right. I like the program because instead of six days of deprivation, the caloric restriction is focused on two days per week. Moreover, there is the built in freedom to have desert or pizza on Friday and Saturday, the days that are most likely to tempt a cutter to stray. In short, the plan is designed to maximize compliance AND results, and it's highly flexible. The more you put into it the more you will get out of it.
Worth checking out, at least...
04-17-2009, 02:23 AM
Im a fan of lyles stuff and that diet is great, i agree that carb cycling and the like isnt required here.
However i think until the bare bones are addressed in his diet and training theres no need to consider a specialist programme, fact is average joe looking to lose weight doesnt need them as often their diet and training are out of wack, as above.
However im all for cutting the angles, especially when your diet and training is nailed.
Alarm bells are ringing constantly here, your intensity in the gym sounds quite low.
Case in point, ive seen plenty of logs where 300lb+ guys are running the v diet, 6 days no carb, living on protein shakes and flax, its over kill and your using up the advanced tools your going to need later when you hit bigger and bigger walls as you reach your goal.
It sounds like im tearing this guy apart, but really ive been where he is and im trying to save him time. When i sat myself down, really looked at my diet and became 'aware' of my time spent in the gym the pieces of the puzzle were all too clear.
My fat ass was not working hard enough.
As for foods, heres a list ive seen posted many times and i used when i was starting out, its NOT comprehensive but a good starting point to base your diet around.
______________________________ ______________________________ _____________
Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
Tuna (water packed)
Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut)
Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
Egg Whites or Whole Eggs
Ribeye Steaks or Roast
Top Round Steaks or Roast (aka Stew Meat, London Broil, Stir Fry)
Top Sirloin (aka Sirloin Top Butt)
Beef Tenderloin (aka Filet, Filet Mignon)
Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
Flank Steak (Sir Fry, Fajita)
Eye of Round (Cube Meat, Stew Meat, Bottom Round , 96% LeandGround Round)
Ground turkey, Turkey Breast Slices or cutlets (fresh meat, not deli cuts)
Low-fat cottage cheese
Nonfat Greek Yogurt
SLOW BURNING/COMPLEX CARBS
Oatmeal (Old Fashioned or Quick Oats)
Sweet Potatoes (Yams)
Beans (pinto, black, kidney)
Oat Bran Cereal
Farina (Cream of Wheat)
Multigrain Hot Cereal
Whole wheat or Spinach Pasta
100% Stoneground Whole Wheat Bread
Green Leafy Lettuce (Green Leaf, Red, Leaf, Romaine)
Green or Red Pepper
Lemons or Limes
Natural Peanut Butter
Olive Oil or Safflower Oil
Nuts (peanuts, almonds)
Other Tea (without sugar)
Coffee (without sugar)
Reduced Sodium Soy Sauce
Reduced Sodium Teriyaki Sauce
Hot Peppers and Hot Sauce
Sugar Free Maple Syrup
Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc )
Low Sodium beef or chicken broth
Plain or reduced sodium tomatoes sauce, puree, paste)
Stevia (natural sweetener)
______________________________ ______________________________ ______________
04-17-2009, 07:21 AM
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