carb cycling help
- 09-03-2008, 08:49 AM
carb cycling help
alright guys im currently arond 205 at 12-13% bodyfat and would like to get to 9-10% bodyfat before i start my test-e d-bol cycle... i would just like some help on my carb cycling diet.. im wondering how much fat should i intake on no carb days and how much on low and high days.. Also on no carb days what do i do for protein shakes as mine have 5 grams of carbs should i just not take them.. thanks..
Mayo, olive oil, Whole eggs?, Steak-ums?, burger beef?, and cheese?
and how much saturated fat should i include on no carb days.. im just nervous that if i dont eat enough fat my body will use protein for energy and not fat.. thanks
- 09-03-2008, 08:59 AM
“We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
- 09-03-2008, 09:20 AM
ok i will buy the ground beef then... and as far as olive oil what can i mix it with to taste good.. the reason why i figured mayo was good is because for 12grams of fat it only has 1.5 or 2 grams of satuarated fat and it mixes good with tuna.. but what would some fat/protein recipes be ..
09-03-2008, 10:16 AM
i personally don't shy away from saturated fats.
your body needs it to maintain a healthy hormone profile - especially during a cut.
only if you were significantly overweight or had high cholesterol would i recommend staying away from sat fat.
however, when consumming low carb you will need to eat a good amount of fat.
i eat a lot of nuts, advacado, olives when trying to get extra fats in my diet.
09-03-2008, 10:36 AM
http://www.troponinnutrition.com/Shelby.pdf for info on carb cycling.
Go to the EliteFTS - Powerlifting and Strength Training Products and Knowledge for Lifters, Athletes, Coaches, and Trainers site and read all of the Shelby Starnes questions about carb cylcing. You can submit him questions at the site also.
09-03-2008, 10:38 AM
09-03-2008, 11:24 AM
I like to add mayo to my tuna fish it is a great fat/protein meal!
Good advice to use oils to help bring up fat intake that extra bit of this diet. Keep in mind to not drop calories too low. Normally as the weeks go on I can slowly drop my intake down and still ahve steady weight loss.
Great diet tracker on here just to see how many carbs you take in during the day. Generally I am under 30g and it keeps me in ketosis.
09-03-2008, 11:48 AM
09-03-2008, 01:08 PM
Your fat intake on no-carb days should be ~70% of your calories and protein the remaining ~30%. I give rough estimates because you are probably going to be eating a small amount of carbs each day as well. On high carb days fat should only make up 10% of your macronutrient content. I personally like to go 60% carbs and 30% protein for the remaining but this is debatable. I will say though that the sweet spot during the carb up is definately 10% fat.alright guys im currently arond 205 at 12-13% bodyfat and would like to get to 9-10% bodyfat before i start my test-e d-bol cycle... i would just like some help on my carb cycling diet.. im wondering how much fat should i intake on no carb days and how much on low and high days..
I would invest in a good zero carb protien. If you shop around VPX zero carb can be had for as little as 33 bucks for a 4.4 pound tub and I'm fond of the graham cracker flavor (and no, I don't work for the company!). In the meantime you will be fine if you are taking in a couple shakes a day as you will still only be around 10g of carbs. And you can still use the rest of that protein powder during the carb up.Also on no carb days what do i do for protein shakes as mine have 5 grams of carbs should i just not take them.. thanks..
Sounds good. I use all of those. Animal fat is fair game on this diet. I would include 1g of EPA/DHA per day as well. The content of EPA/DHA varies with different brands of fish oil but for many brands this will equate to roughly 10 caps per day.Fat sources
Mayo, olive oil, Whole eggs?, Steak-ums?, burger beef?, and cheese?
You will be fine if saturated fat makes up ~33% of your daily fat intake. I sure don't shy away from it. Saturated fat may be shyed away from on a carbohydrate based diet, but it is a different ballgame when you consume saturated fats without the presence of insulin like you are doing on a carb cycling diet.and how much saturated fat should i include on no carb days.. im just nervous that if i dont eat enough fat my body will use protein for energy and not fat.. thanks
As long as you keep your macros like I posted above you should have very little conern about losing muscle. Fat is very protein sparing.
09-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Great info Botch!
Thus far this diet is doing wonders for me as it has in the past. Once you get past the first hump this diet is nice and easy!
09-03-2008, 09:46 PM
so if i ate like 50% fat and 50% protein i would have a chance of using fat for protein right? how does this diet look for no carb day
4 strips of bacon
3 whole eggs, 3 egg whites..
piece of cheese?? or protein shake??
steak ums with piece of cheese?
meal 3 ckn olive oil and broccoli/ romaine salad
meal 4 tuna/mayo some nuts
burger? bacon? cheese?
meal 6 peanut butter cottage cheese...
Can all these meals be eating okay and still lose fat.. carb total would be around 10grams on no carb day..
09-03-2008, 09:48 PM
this is pretty much what i did on the anabolic diet.. but i just didn't know if it would work because im no carb for 5 days as opposed to 2 or 3 no carbs spread out throughtout the week you know what im saying? thanks
09-03-2008, 09:55 PM
what does your carb cycling diet look like on an average week out of curiousity? just days you train vs off days in relation to carb vs no carb days. im looking to tweak my diet and watned to get a feel for what other people are doing.
right now im taking in about 60% fats 30% protien on 'no' carb days. you probably already know about glutamine but its helped me a lot taking it before training and cardio to not burn muscle
09-03-2008, 10:12 PM
Search around for a few other threads anablic/ckd master thread has pretty much everything in it.
Cycling is pretty much < 30g crabs sunday-friday night
Have a split of 70% fat 30 Protein
on carb up day around 70 carbs and only like 10 or so grams of fat
The split I generally used is if you do your cabr up friday night into Sat.
sunday run to help get back into ketosis
mon/tue are your primary work out days for heavy lifts
wed/thur run days and a little extra work outs
5 full body work out (depletion workout) Begin carb up right after that is done.
09-03-2008, 11:31 PM
ohh ok so your saying pretty much run a keto diet... I was thinking along the lines of carb cycling like this
monday no carbs
tuesday low cars
sun high... or something similar but catch my drift, i have no problem doing the keto diet but it seems my strength suffered when going on it which is why i didn't like it but if its the best way to preserve muscle and diet then i can easily do no carbs 5 days a week.. i just worry about my strength...
09-04-2008, 09:48 AM
09-04-2008, 09:55 AM
If strength is an issue you can use something liek TKD diet and comsume carbs. right before your workout to aid in energy and strenth. They will get burned off in the workout and you should return to ketosis soon after.
The diet to mentioned works good as well but you more then likely won't be in a keto state. On the otherhand you will be still low carbing for the most part and it will provide good energy.
Any diet where you eat less ( when cutting) and healthy will be a good one.
If you do, do the diet to said watch the fat intake as the primary reason fat intake is so high on CKD is becuase it is the primary source of energy however, if your still burning carbs for energy you could easily overshoot a balanced fat intake.
09-04-2008, 12:56 PM
i think im going to try a tkd diet where i eat fat/protein every other meal except pre/post... this seems like the best option so i can still maintain 90% of my muscle mass... then on off days i would eat all fat/protein .... and do cardio correct.. i will make sure i eat protein every 2/3 hours to prevent any catablism... does this sound ok? also another benefit to the high fat/ high protein diet except pre and post would be the increased test levels i really can feel a differencee...
09-04-2008, 01:03 PM
Yes a some carb intake before your w/o then on off days just solid <30g carbs also goes for cardio days.
Remember to try to keep a 70% to 30% fat/protein intake. You want fat being your primary source in food.
The incrase in test can jsut be in your head as well since your feeling more energy vice the days with no carbs. I do like to take test boosters on a cut to be honest.
09-04-2008, 02:07 PM
what im doing right now which seems to be working well is lifting MWF (MADCOW 5X5) and eating around 60% carbs those days with no cardio. Tu, Th, Sat, i do fasted steady cardio in the morning, eat a breakfast high in complex carbs with no carbs the rest of the day and do HIIT about 10-11 hours later allowing my blood sugar to completley drop. for some this may be over training but ive been doing it for close to a month with me and my buddies glutamine and posiedon before cardio and lifting. ive dropped two lbs and still hit my numbers every week starting PR's this week.
"everything works, but nothing works forever"
tcd is legit..its a lot easier to stay with too especially if your cant handle 5 days with <30g of carbs like me
09-04-2008, 03:16 PM
ok so when im on off daysfrom lifting the extra fat i eat won't store as fat right i should be in some level of ketosis... so pretty much this is what an off day will look like with cardio 70/30 fat/protein split.. then when i lift which is 5 days a week i will do a 70/30 fat protein split with every meal except pre/ and post workout shake..?..
09-04-2008, 10:24 PM
Thats correct, on off days keep a almsot no carb 70/30 split of fat/protein and on training days take in carbs before/after your workout.
You also should be able to go longer without a refeed this way. Since you will be taking in carbs 5 days a week when workingout. If you feel you need one make sure you drop down the fat intake for that day protein can stay the same.
Ketogenic Diet Summary
09-04-2008, 11:57 PM
ok and for postt workout nutrition would this diet just include the post workout shake with 70-80 grams of sugar/complex carbs and then a complex carb/protein meal... or would it just be the shake ..?
09-05-2008, 05:08 AM
I suggest a carb intake before your workout the idea is to burn them during your workout so they don't truely count against you in a diet sense.
Afterwards a protein shake or a fat/protein mix. Your not going to need that extra crab boost after the workout you want your body to head right back towards fat for fuel
09-05-2008, 09:55 AM
ok sounds good thanks alot, and you said that i should keep most of my muscle and burn off a good amount of bodyfat.. this board is definitley one of the better ones i dont really like bodybuilding... lol
09-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Yes, you should be able to keep mostly all your muscle. You make feel a little weaker during your workouts if that is the case you might want to lean towards the TKD.
Watch how many calories you take in just because your on a diet does not mean that you should eat 1kcal a day. Find out what your daily intake should be and try to go no lower then 500cals below that.
09-05-2008, 10:54 AM
yeah, i never diet down to hard especially since ill be on clen and a like to take a low dose of t3 at 50mg a day.. i heard it gives a minor anabolic effect so i will tkae 25mg in the mourning then usually 25 mg after i lift to increase the protein absorbtion...
09-05-2008, 11:33 AM
its all about controlling carbs at certain times in the day depending on when you lift and do cardio. sounds like your on top of it though man good luck
09-07-2008, 01:30 PM
I've used something like this in the past and didn't work nearly as well for me personally as going 5 days no carb with a 2 day carb up (from a fatloss standpoint). I was playing in soccer games at the time though and it did help with energy levels.ohh ok so your saying pretty much run a keto diet... I was thinking along the lines of carb cycling like this
monday no carbs
tuesday low cars
I'm guessing that you probably didn't tailor your training to your diet which is crucial with a diet such as this. I've seen best results by working out with what my glycogen levels can support. For me, this includes heavy weight early in the week (6-8 reps) say Monday, Tuesday, and maybe Wednesday, and then on Friday a full-body depletion workout with the carb up immediately following. You may also get a greater degree of glycogen supercompensation doing it this way. Think of your body like a dried out sponge at the end of the week...when you perform that full body depletion workout your body is primed to soak up as many carbohydrates as it can. The higher the reps during this workout, the better.or something similar but catch my drift, i have no problem doing the keto diet but it seems my strength suffered when going on it which is why i didn't like it but if its the best way to preserve muscle and diet then i can easily do no carbs 5 days a week.. i just worry about my strength...
09-07-2008, 02:31 PM
09-07-2008, 02:43 PM
Steak-um's are prepackaged thin steaks that you can buy at the grocery store and keep in the freezer.
09-07-2008, 02:49 PM
09-07-2008, 02:53 PM
I can't tell what kind of cut it is and the package doesn't seem to specify. Each portion is 10g of fat and 8g protein with no carbos.
09-07-2008, 02:57 PM
09-08-2008, 11:21 AM
they also make steak-ums that are like .5 inch thick and round like a pork chop, but when you cook them they fall apart into delicious shredded beef. Extra good! I ate lots of them when I was on the AD.
09-09-2008, 12:52 AM
when I carb cycle i do a low,low,no,low,no,high split and this works great for me. I eat 5 meals a day with 50G of protein in each meal.
on low days I eat 50G of oats in the morning with 55G (2 scoops) of True Proteins whey isolate cold-filtration (has 0 carbs and 0 fat) and 1 cup of fibrous veggies during the day for meals 2 and 3. The last meal of the night a eat somthing with some fats in it like steaks for 96/4 burger or Tilapia, and for meals 1-4 I eat clean protein like chicken, eggs/eggwhites/eggbeaters, or 99% fat free ground turkey
On no carb days I try to follow the same guidline except to oats in the morning and at the end of the day meals 4 and 5 add in plenty of good fats. You can get these from reduced fat cheese, marinade everything in EVOO, foods mentioned above, nuts, natty peanut butter etc.
On the high days, I go all out on carbs, eat as much carbs as you want but the trick is to get good whole grain carbs and eat NO fat this day. I usually get things like Healthy harvest pasta, or whole grain bagels and fat-free cream cheese etc. also keep up the 50G of protein for all 5 meals
While your doing this be sure to take a daily multi and supplement with EFA's. On high fat days I always do cardio at night and the next morning BEFORE eating my first meal.
09-15-2008, 05:25 PM
i know how to lose weight but my problem is im scarred of losing size... have you lost size doing your carb cycling routine?
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