Preview Q & A for Reformualted Blood Shot May 2017

[VeinNutrition]

Hey AM family,

We're working on a reformulation of BloodShot and this a preview of what the formulation is going to look like below. Would love to hear some feedback and/or suggestions. We're not 100% concrete on this formulation, so there's still time to make adjustments!

60 servings, 1 Serving = 1 Capsule

Per Serving:

Compound Dose (mg)
DMHA 150
Noopept 30
Hordenine 40
Synephrine 30
Eria Jarensis 100
Caffeine 150
Rhodiola 5% 200


Why are you reformulating?

We are reformulating mainly because we are switching production to a single manufacturer. Before we were using two different ones to run our products. As a result, we have to comply with a few restrictions this manufacturer has, one being no use of 1,4 DMAA.

Why did you take out DMAA?

The writing is on the wall for DMAA, it's only a matter of time before it's officially banned. We'd like to have a product that can sustain that ban. Our manufacturer seems to be of the same opinion and has been pushing for a DMHA switch. If you're still really interested in DMAA, we have it in our current batches of Rupture as well as Osmotic Energy. The latter may be a good supplement if you're looking just for DMAA, it's 120 tablets per bottle, each tablet is 15mg DMAA, 75mg caffeine, and 5mg Yohimbine.

Why 60 servings of capsules?

Our thought process for an encapsulated product is that we wanted to make a true stim and focus product only. So we originally cut out the beta alanine and cut the citrulline malate in half. Then, we looked at that formula and thought, if we removed the citrulline malate, we could add a few more stimulants and even put it in a capsule.

What if I want some pump in my pre-workout too?

If you're looking for a high stim + high pump PWO, we're actually going to be coming out with a stim-free PWO around the same time as the reformulated BloodShot. It'll be loaded with cit malate, hydromax, alpha GPC and a few other ingredients. It's name is TBD, but it's going to a full pump product. Generally, it's hard to make a one size fits all preworkout, especially for more advanced users who have preference on what they like or don't like, and what works for them and what doesn't. That's why we've designed a line of preworkouts that you can use individually or stack with each other to tailor to your specific needs.

 

[carguy123]

Very interesting, I always kinda wondered what your guys thought was on the DMAA case and what not. I'm digging the new formula and have always wanted a decent capped pre ever since Uncut got discountined. Best of luck to you guys

 

[TheMovement]

Glad to see the innovation and the adaptation to the demands of the market. Curious to see the end result!

 

[VeinNutrition]

Very interesting, I always kinda wondered what your guys thought was on the DMAA case and what not. I'm digging the new formula and have always wanted a decent capped pre ever since Uncut got discountined. Best of luck to you guys

Thank you very much. We know there's definitely a demand for DMAA, and honestly we could probably get away with running a small batch and selling it all before the ban comes. It could take months or even years for the ban to be official. Mesomorph is still selling with DMAA, so if there is a large demand for DMAA we can consider doing a first run with DMAA and eventually removing and replacing with DMHA.

 

[Mowglisml]

Have you considered changing the name?.. since it is no longer the og bloodshot.

 

[VeinNutrition]

Have you considered changing the name?.. since it is no longer the og bloodshot.

Interesting point! Any suggestions? We also need a name for our Stim-Free PWO...seems like potential for a contest

 

[patrick25]

I'll chance it on years and keep it exactly the same then if you need to pull it then do it then your first formulation was very well thought out. Just an opinion.

 

[VeinNutrition]

I'll chance it on years and keep it exactly the same then if you need to pull it then do it then your first formulation was very well thought out. Just an opinion.

We unfortunately can't do the original formulation for 2 main reasons

1. We cannot use 1,4 DMAA anymore
2. We cannot have more than 75mg of DMAA per serving

 

[patrick25]

The 1,4 is because you switched manufacturers correct. Couldn't you go back to them then keep the 1,3 at 75mg.

 

[VeinNutrition]

The 1,4 is because you switched manufacturers correct. Couldn't you go back to them then keep the 1,3 at 75mg.

Yes that's part of it. Also the manufacturer who had 1,4 DMAA actually was forced by the FDA to dispose of all their DMAA. So even if we stayed with them, we would not have been able to use 1,4 DMAA or 1,3 DMAA.

One of our other products Rupture already has 75mg of 1,3 DMAA per serving.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Subd

 

[patrick25]

Is there any way around this the only reason I push for it is its been along time since something this good has come around and your fan base will really grow off this flagship product I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like changes to something that's pretty much a 5 star product. I also noticed you guys respond to comments fast and respect that. Thank you.

 

[VeinNutrition]

Is there any way around this the only reason I push for it is its been along time since something this good has come around and your fan base will really grow off this flagship product I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like changes to something that's pretty much a 5 star product. I also noticed you guys respond to comments fast and respect that. Thank you.

There's really no way around the 1,4 DMAA ingredient. We're lead to believe that the reason one of our manufacturers was forced by the FDA to dispose of their DMAA raws is because they had/were using 1,4 DMAA. The added fact that our new manufacturer won't touch 1,4 DMAA either shows us that's not really a product we want to be messing around with. As to the per serving DMAA limit, you can see we have 60 servings in our new formulation versus 30 servings in the old formulation. So you'll get the same amount of DMAA per tub/bottle but we have to legally say that an individual should not exceed 1 serving a day.

Beyond those two things, the new proposed formula has a few more stimulants and removes beta alanine and the citrulline malate. Our feedback from our original product was that beta alanine is nice for people who like the tingles, but otherwise it doesn't really do much in a stimulant sense. Same goes for citrulline malate, good for pumps/endurance but not a stimulant.

We try to respond fast as we can

 

[blokpost]

I like the profile. DMAA of course would be a great addition.
Maybe slightly increase the dose of caffeine?

 

[VeinNutrition]

I like the profile. DMAA of course would be a great addition.
Maybe slightly increase the dose of caffeine?

What would you like to see it as? Our thought was that IF someone were to take 2 capsules, although we say do not exceed more than 1 capsule a day, then it would be 300 mg of caffeine. Bumping it to 200mg would be 400mg for 2 capsules and pushing to 250mg would be 500mg for 2 capsules.

We've also thought about having caffeine tablets or capsules available as a core essential. The reason being, some people prefer lower caffeine, some people like higher caffeine. And caffeine is a very cheap ingredient, so we would rather go lower on caffeine and then someone who likes more caffeine can always supplement with caffeine pills. Whereas if we went higher on the caffeine, those who want lower caffeine really have no recourse with the product. What are your thoughts?

 

[Bengal]

Balls........

 

[blokpost]

What would you like to see it as? Our thought was that IF someone were to take 2 capsules, although we say do not exceed more than 1 capsule a day, then it would be 300 mg of caffeine. Bumping it to 200mg would be 400mg for 2 capsules and pushing to 250mg would be 500mg for 2 capsules.

We've also thought about having caffeine tablets or capsules available as a core essential. The reason being, some people prefer lower caffeine, some people like higher caffeine. And caffeine is a very cheap ingredient, so we would rather go lower on caffeine and then someone who likes more caffeine can always supplement with caffeine pills. Whereas if we went higher on the caffeine, those who want lower caffeine really have no recourse with the product. What are your thoughts?

Thought about 300mg caffeine.
Otherwise profile looks great to me. Some yohimbine and citicoline would be also great.

 

[MidwestBeast]

A few thoughts:

- I like the idea of caps. Makes this easy to take along with a pump pre, which is almost certainly powder, but also makes it a solid choice for a fat burner or pick-me-up (this is the type of thing I would keep on hand for late nights of studying, road trips overnight, etc.).

- Someone who has a better understanding of the synergy of the ratio of caffeine : DMHA should weigh in (that's not me). I know a lot of people talked about with DMAA, at least, a lower caffeine level seemed to make the product feel/work better. I would wager there's a similar threshold with DMHA and the rest of these ingredients -- I would do some alpha testing in house and see. There should be an optimal ratio out there.

- I saw mention of yohimbine -- I would keep it out (just because it's polarizing to many people and is another thing that's easy enough to add if you want to). Only way I would change that is if you had a solid extract of Alpha-Y you wanted to add, but again, not a necessity as it could be taken in addition easily enough.

- Adding DMAA would certainly make this a stronger product; however I don't know that it makes it better. If you're looking at ANYTHING to add as a core/standalone product to sell alongside that, it would be DMAA and not caffeine. If you truly want to do that with caffeine, you can, but there are plenty of other cheap sources for it already (generally not going to be something you'll be able to sell and make a profit on and for a smaller company, I would focus on other SKUs, personally).

 

[VeinNutrition]

A few thoughts:

- I like the idea of caps. Makes this easy to take along with a pump pre, which is almost certainly powder, but also makes it a solid choice for a fat burner or pick-me-up (this is the type of thing I would keep on hand for late nights of studying, road trips overnight, etc.).

Pump pre will be a powder yes, and it will be a bigger tub because of how fluffy the end product will be. We are also going to have about 1.5g of BCAAs, as recommended by our manufacturer to reduce clumping.

- Someone who has a better understanding of the synergy of the ratio of caffeine : DMHA should weigh in (that's not me). I know a lot of people talked about with DMAA, at least, a lower caffeine level seemed to make the product feel/work better. I would wager there's a similar threshold with DMHA and the rest of these ingredients -- I would do some alpha testing in house and see. There should be an optimal ratio out there.

As company, we generally don't like to dose caffeine too high. I also believe that different bodies chemistries will react differently. A certain ratio may work great for me, but not as well for you. This is why if we close caffeine lower, it gives the flexibility to add more caffeine if needed. But if we put in too much caffeine, a consumer can't really remove or reduce caffeine from our formula. So essentially, it's always easy and cheap to supplement your own caffeine if you want to go higher, but not much recourse if you want to go lower.

- I saw mention of yohimbine -- I would keep it out (just because it's polarizing to many people and is another thing that's easy enough to add if you want to). Only way I would change that is if you had a solid extract of Alpha-Y you wanted to add, but again, not a necessity as it could be taken in addition easily enough.

I agree. Yohimbine is one of those ingredients that your body either agrees with or doesn't. Polarizing is a good word to describe it, as it can completely turn some people away from the product just because of one ingredient.

- Adding DMAA would certainly make this a stronger product; however I don't know that it makes it better. If you're looking at ANYTHING to add as a core/standalone product to sell alongside that, it would be DMAA and not caffeine. If you truly want to do that with caffeine, you can, but there are plenty of other cheap sources for it already (generally not going to be something you'll be able to sell and make a profit on and for a smaller company, I would focus on other SKUs, personally).

I agree with this as well. Single ingredient SKUs we cannot compete with big companies on pricing, so better for a smaller company to stick with custom blends and branded products. On the flip side though, I'm ok with breaking even on a caffeine standalone product if it gives our customers a one-stop shop experience. I'm sure the more advanced and experienced user can just go on Amazon and buy a bottle of caffeine tablets (very cheap btw and will last you a long time) but I'm also thinking about the average consumer who wants a one stop shop experience. Especially if we mention "you shold stack A,B, C with X,Y, Z and you can get all those products from us.

Very good points and I think we are on the same train of thought. I've made above comments in bold.

 

[VeinNutrition]

Thought about 300mg caffeine.
Otherwise profile looks great to me. Some yohimbine and citicoline would be also great.

Thanks for your input! Take a look at my above posts on our thoughts on caffeine and yohimbine and let me know if you agree or disagree.

I will take a look into citicoline

 

[schizm]

Not a fan of caps and generally makes cost of the product go up. Really would like to see DMAA left in it. Never noticed much stim from synephrine. And yes, def keep yohimbe out of it. Hate the stuff.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Not a fan of caps and generally makes cost of the product go up. Really would like to see DMAA left in it. Never noticed much stim from synephrine. And yes, def keep yohimbe out of it. Hate the stuff.

Was thinking of you specifically when I made my comment lol

 

[schizm]

Was thinking of you specifically when I made my comment lol

Awwww, what a sweet fella ?

 

[nduronio]

Glad I got a few tubs before it sold out I was wondering what the main difference in the 1,4 vs 1,3 was. Couldn't find much online. Also for some reason I noticed that Rupture gives me more energy and feel good than bloodshot despite it being lower in stims. Any reason why this would happen?

 

[Mowglisml]

Interesting point! Any suggestions? We also need a name for our Stim-Free PWO...seems like potential for a contest

hmm
and responding after above discussion.

If you can still get away with DMAA, possible to keep same ingredient profile but replace 1,4 with dmha or just replace the 60 of 1,3 and 60 of 1,4 with 75 mg of 1,3? This could be called Bloodshot version 2.
The new formulation seems to me a lot more of a fat burner. ..

Possible Names.
1. new formulation - Blood Flare
2. new pump fomulation - Vein Blare

 

[ELROCK]

No Y please! Everything else looks solid and I like the idea of capping it.

 

[nduronio]

Glad I got a few tubs before it sold out I was wondering what the main difference in the 1,4 vs 1,3 was. Couldn't find much online. Also for some reason I noticed that Rupture gives me more energy and feel good than bloodshot despite it being lower in stims. Any reason why this would happen?

So I think I just answered my own question. Apparently I missed the memo about the incorrect serving size and have been double dosing along with and extra 150mg of caffeine from BCAA energy. This on top of taking OL ignite throughout the day no wonder I've been feeling messed up all week...

 

[Bengal]

Add DMAA, caffeine 150-200, skip the yohimbe, add Msten lol

 

[JAMES1980]

Love that 150mg DMHA 150mg Caffeine ratio.

 

[JulzRulz]

Sub'd. Is there any place I can still get a tub of OG Bloodshot?

 

[patrick25]

Sub'd. Is there any place I can still get a tub of OG Bloodshot?

Same

 

[VeinNutrition]

Add DMAA, caffeine 150-200, skip the yohimbe, add Msten lol

Let's go all the way then +dbol +drol +sdrol. Lol liver hurts just thinking about that.

 

[VeinNutrition]

Love that 150mg DMHA 150mg Caffeine ratio.

Appreciate the feedback brother.

 

[VeinNutrition]

Sub'd. Is there any place I can still get a tub of OG Bloodshot?

Same

Sorry guys, no more Blood Shot available for retail market. We comp'ed those who buy the original formula so that they got what they bought but moving forward we can't sell or giveaway any of the original formula product for liability reasons. We've had several people ask us and our response has been the same for everyone, so there's also a fairness aspect to it as well.

 

[VeinNutrition]

hmm
and responding after above discussion.

If you can still get away with DMAA, possible to keep same ingredient profile but replace 1,4 with dmha or just replace the 60 of 1,3 and 60 of 1,4 with 75 mg of 1,3? This could be called Bloodshot version 2.
The new formulation seems to me a lot more of a fat burner. ..

Possible Names.
1. new formulation - Blood Flare
2. new pump fomulation - Vein Blare

Another restriction we have is that we cannot have DMAA and DMHA in the same formulation. If we go the DMAA route, I may want to wait a few weeks and see the results of the two motions filed by Hi-Tech on April 17th.

I can see where you're coming from with the fat burner, any recommendations to alleviate that?

 

[Bengal]

Sorry guys, no more Blood Shot available for retail market. We comp'ed those who buy the original formula so that they got what they bought but moving forward we can't sell or giveaway any of the original formula product for liability reasons. We've had several people ask us and our response has been the same for everyone, so there's also a fairness aspect to it as well.

I knew it wouldn't be around long. Never expected to see just 1 run though. I was fortunate or unfortunate enough depending on how you look at it to sample the OG version. One of the very best period.

 

[Mowglisml]

Another restriction we have is that we cannot have DMAA and DMHA in the same formulation. If we go the DMAA route, I may want to wait a few weeks and see the results of the two motions filed by Hi-Tech on April 17th.

I can see where you're coming from with the fat burner, any recommendations to alleviate that?

I see.. i guess same formula but replace 1,3 and 1,4 with dmha only. Wonder how that would work...

 

[blokpost]

Maybe vein could make bulk dmaa caps? 25mg per capsule.

 

[bashar]

You have lost me vein n. The original bloodshot was unique, you could have easily switched the 1.4 with DMHA while keeping the 1.3 but the new formula is weak...

 

[VeinNutrition]

You have lost me vein n. The original bloodshot was unique, you could have easily switched the 1.4 with DMHA while keeping the 1.3 but the new formula is weak...

Sorry but new manufacturer that's GMP Certified won't allow DMHA and DMAA in the same formulation. We're going to be phasing out DMAA soon as well, the future doesn't look too good for it. Unfortunately this is something we have no control.over and have to play by the FDA's rules.

 

[VeinNutrition]

Maybe vein could make bulk dmaa caps? 25mg per capsule.

The writing is on the wall for dmaa, I don't think it'd be wise to make a product that would eventually be pulled.

 

[kelvarnsen]

Sorry guys, no more Blood Shot available for retail market. We comp'ed those who buy the original formula so that they got what they bought but moving forward we can't sell or giveaway any of the original formula product for liability reasons. We've had several people ask us and our response has been the same for everyone, so there's also a fairness aspect to it as well.

Damn I wish I had ordered this way back instead of just chuckling when I read about the scooper fiasco. Just read a review of 1,4 and it sounds like I'd really enjoy it. Kudos to you guys for coming up with a great formula.

Hopefully the person that reviewed it is able to push forward with their 1,4 product even though it sounds like Hi Tech may be out of commission for a bit.