Article: Bringing Up Lagging Legs

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    Article: Bringing Up Lagging Legs



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    Love IT! But no hard work for calves...
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    I'm tryin to understand how stiff-legged deads are "quad dominant"...
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    Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I'm tryin to understand how stiff-legged deads are "quad dominant"...
    the same way front squats are quad dominate and hammy dominate at the same...
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    Great another "split" article. Targeting people with inferior leg development the majority of the time means targeting people who dislike training legs. Telling that same person to now have two seperate "leg days" is a laughable approach
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    Well, people that are naturally fat will have larger and therefore stronger legs and thus don't mind training legs since it is their more developed muscle. I could say the same about my shoulders, which I now train almost none.

    I have to dang near kill myself on leg days to see results. Throwin up in the bathroom, three heartbeats away from cardiac arrest, sweating 2lbs off my body, etc.

    Since I started splitting my legs, I have seen slight increases in mass in general and slightly more development for my hams - this was all w/ a sub 300 T-levels. So while you have a point, it doesn't contend that splitting is a bad idea. It's a bad idea for those who don't even train legs consistently or hard, but it could be a really excellent idea for those of us that have to drain our entire energy reserves to work the quads alone. I spend an entire session doing chest alone, so why wouldn't I spend an entire session training quads which are twice the size of my chest? Not to mention that to train hams effectively, you need to incorporate some really heavy lifting (particularly deadlifting), which again is a problem when you need 12+ sets for quads alone...
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    o think they need to swap front and back squats no?
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    never-mind... your hitting your "legs" total twice a week, each day gets a different emphasis
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    Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I'm tryin to understand how stiff-legged deads are "quad dominant"...
    Quad dominate... Not quad only....
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    Originally Posted by smitty_time View Post
    Quad dominate... Not quad only....
    Well...when I do stiffs or romanians, I do them on the blocks ( short legs ). It's hams-exclusive for me every time.
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    Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    Well...when I do stiffs or romanians, I do them on the blocks ( short legs ). It's hams-exclusive for me every time.
    And glutes right lol the program looks like a normal leg day workout he just changes the energy expenditures from one muscle group on Monday to the other on Thursday Friday so neither are just for one so you can have a ham and glute excercise on even a quad day. Unless I missed something
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    Stiff leg deads are in no way, shape, or form "quad dominant". They are hamstring dominant.
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    No calf work or abduction or adduction.

    Nice.
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    Originally Posted by CK7 View Post
    Stiff leg deads are in no way, shape, or form "quad dominant". They are hamstring dominant.
    He's not saying that one day is just quads and the other is hams his program has both on both days just hitting quads first then hams( same day) and the other is hams first then quads. Still a split just exhausting one before the other so one side either quads or hams isnt neglect every week since if you did squats every week first your hams would suffer since your energy is lower after you Exaust your quads.
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    Rdl's and stiff legged DL are hamstrings only IMO definetly not quad dominant
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    Originally Posted by Mp859 View Post
    Rdl's and stiff legged DL are hamstrings only if done correctly IMO definetly not quad dominant
    That is literally impossible
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    Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    No calf work or abduction or adduction.Nice.
    This! One dimensional.. lol
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    I am glad I trained my legs hard from the start. Personally I like doing hams and quads same day. Really enjoying the results of Mountain Dog training.
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    Someone is a bit slow. No one said stiff leg deadlifts were quad dominant. They are in the quad dominant workout, after the quad exercises,. If you look at the two workouts, the hamstring dominant one starts with hamstring exercises and then quads and calves. The quad dominant workout starts with quad exercises and then hams and calves.
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    Originally Posted by 804 View Post
    This! One dimensional.. lol
    Hammer those calves and ab/ad machines and see how much size you get from those. Given that the article alludes to adding size, your comment is misplaced.
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    Originally Posted by girthypiece View Post
    Hammer those calves and ab/ad machines and see how much size you get from those. Given that the article alludes to adding size, your comment is misplaced.
    If you want to have a good athletic ROM with those big legs, than these 3 are very crucial. And adding these workouts into a leg day can increase ROM instantly.. Which equals More ROM for those heavy exercises and less discomfort. I'm not saying they'll add strength, but they can aid in strength increase. But you're correct they will not add direct size.
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    Originally Posted by 804 View Post

    If you want to have a good athletic ROM with those big legs, than these 3 are very crucial. And adding these workouts into a leg day can increase ROM instantly.. Which equals More ROM for those heavy exercises and less discomfort. I'm not saying they'll add strength, but they can aid in strength increase. But you're correct they will not add direct size.
    These are machine exercises with nearly zero carryover into compound lifts. They do exactly the opposite of what you have proposed. Joint mobility is not the topic of the article.
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    Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I'm tryin to understand how stiff-legged deads are "quad dominant"...
    ... They arent quad dominant, both given workouts are leg workouts but in both workouts the first few exercises are selected to mainly target quads or hammies. SLDL are later in the quad focused leg day because they ont target quads directly at all.
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    Originally Posted by girthypiece View Post
    Great another "split" article. Targeting people with inferior leg development the majority of the time means targeting people who dislike training legs. Telling that same person to now have two seperate "leg days" is a laughable approach
    Lol... That's a pretty accurate statement.
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    Lol at the guy saying that calf, abductor and adductor are crucial. You're either a physical therapist, a wimp, or a joker.

    Calf work is great for aesthetics. For athletic performance and carryover to other lifts?! No value
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    Originally Posted by Tampoco View Post
    Lol at the guy saying that calf, abductor and adductor are crucial. You're either a physical therapist, a wimp, or a joker.

    Calf work is great for aesthetics. For athletic performance and carryover to other lifts?! No value
    ??? How do they not have carryover pr improve other lifts??

    Im curious?
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    Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post

    ??? How do they not have carryover pr improve other lifts??

    Im curious?
    Abduction and adduction are like doing internal and external rotation exercises for your shoulder. They are at most rehab exercises for strained adductors that can sometimes occur during wide stance squatting. Externally rotating your shoulder with light weights will not strengthen your bench because they are not primary movers of your arms therefore no carryover. Same with hip ad/abduction. In general, these stability muscle groups get strengthened alongside heavy compound lifts and do not need separate attention. Generally only after an injury are they ever used. Big calves are big testicles, their value in general, is trivial...
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    And I will also add this about calves, genetic predisposition rules here. Your time is better spent with a barbell on your back.
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    Has anyone here implemented this type of training "quad dominate" and "ham dominate" days to their routines each week? How did it work for you and did you make decent gains?
    Keepin it around 40/35/25...
    F*** supplements, be a d*** man and get that **** naturally ya dig?!!
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    Originally Posted by girthypiece View Post
    Abduction and adduction are like doing internal and external rotation exercises for your shoulder. They are at most rehab exercises for strained adductors that can sometimes occur during wide stance squatting. Externally rotating your shoulder with light weights will not strengthen your bench because they are not primary movers of your arms therefore no carryover. Same with hip ad/abduction. In general, these stability muscle groups get strengthened alongside heavy compound lifts and do not need separate attention. Generally only after an injury are they ever used. Big calves are big testicles, their value in general, is trivial...
    But what happens when you apply heavy weights? Have you ever finished off a hardcore squat routine with ab/add exercises w/ moderate to heavy weight?

    I have never done them consistent enough to say whether they do much beyond leaving me really, really sore the next few days but that's more than I can say for a lot of other leg workouts...
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    Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    But what happens when you apply heavy weights? Have you ever finished off a hardcore squat routine with ab/add exercises w/ moderate to heavy weight?

    I have never done them consistent enough to say whether they do much beyond leaving me really, really sore the next few days but that's more than I can say for a lot of other leg workouts...
    Ask yourself this. If you were to finish up a bench press session and then hammered your rotator cuff with aggressive sets of banded external rotation, would you not be sore as hell? Of course you would be. Then ask yourself why you are sore? Surely you squat on a regular basis, why then are you so sore from ad/abductor work? Because they are not directly involved in squatting! Being that they are not primary movers in compound lower body movements, it is foolish to expect any benefit from them that is not rehabilitation focused from an injury or similar.
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    Originally Posted by girthypiece View Post
    Ask yourself this. If you were to finish up a bench press session and then hammered your rotator cuff with aggressive sets of banded external rotation, would you not be sore as hell? Of course you would be. Then ask yourself why you are sore? Surely you squat on a regular basis, why then are you so sore from ad/abductor work? Because they are not directly involved in squatting! Being that they are not primary movers in compound lower body movements, it is foolish to expect any benefit from them that is not rehabilitation focused from an injury or similar.
    Wasnt arguing, just making sure you are peeking at this from multiple angles. Quite honestly, I only use them for stretching purposes because I am stubby and tighter than most.
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    Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    Wasnt arguing, just making sure you are peeking at this from multiple angles. Quite honestly, I only use them for stretching purposes because I am stubby and tighter than most.
    I wasn't arguing either. I just wanted to use your response to give a different perspective to those who are wanting to learn how to evaluate their own training methods
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    Originally Posted by AllPump3dUp View Post
    Has anyone here implemented this type of training "quad dominate" and "ham dominate" days to their routines each week? How did it work for you and did you make decent gains?
    I train this way and have for the last 2 years. I am a competitive natty BB (2nd place in HW Open last competition) and powerlifter (220#class).

    At 6'2 my hams are my biggest weakness in terms of physique, so I have split my program to have two leg days.

    Tuesday is dead, good morning, GHR, hypers, leg curl, and leg presses.

    Friday is squat, lunge, leg press, hypers, rdls, and leg extensions.

    I finish both days by training my testicles...I mean calves.

    Current PR's are 435 atg raw squat and 575 raw conventional dead.

    I train using 5/3/1 with various assistance templates/schemes.

    Slow and steady progress, but for anyone but a noob that's to be expected
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    Originally Posted by Tampoco View Post

    I train this way and have for the last 2 years. I am a competitive natty BB (2nd place in HW Open last competition) and powerlifter (220#class).

    At 6'2 my hams are my biggest weakness in terms of physique, so I have split my program to have two leg days.

    Tuesday is dead, good morning, GHR, hypers, leg curl, and leg presses.

    Friday is squat, lunge, leg press, hypers, rdls, and leg extensions.

    I finish both days by training my testicles...I mean calves.

    Current PR's are 435 atg raw squat and 575 raw conventional dead.

    I train using 5/3/1 with various assistance templates/schemes.

    Slow and steady progress, but for anyone but a noob that's to be expected
    Repped for testicles reference. Have you tried blood flow restriction training for calves?
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    Originally Posted by Tampoco View Post
    I train this way and have for the last 2 years. I am a competitive natty BB (2nd place in HW Open last competition) and powerlifter (220#class).

    At 6'2 my hams are my biggest weakness in terms of physique, so I have split my program to have two leg days.

    Tuesday is dead, good morning, GHR, hypers, leg curl, and leg presses.

    Friday is squat, lunge, leg press, hypers, rdls, and leg extensions.

    I finish both days by training my testicles...I mean calves.

    Current PR's are 435 atg raw squat and 575 raw conventional dead.

    I train using 5/3/1 with various assistance templates/schemes.

    Slow and steady progress, but for anyone but a noob that's to be expected
    I started implementing this today as followed (quad dominate)

    5x5 Barbell Back Squat
    5x5 Deadlift
    4x10 Leg Press
    3x10 Good Mornings
    4x10 BB Hip Thrusts
    12,12,10,8,8 Seated Calf Raises
    5x12 Smith-Machine Calf Raises

    How does this look plus i added a heavy 1 set burn out session at the end on leg extensions. Should i change anything or does this look pretty solid for quad, ass, and calf day?

    new PR was 235 @ 5 reps today. Increases in numbers like a mother f****er!!!!!!
    Keepin it around 40/35/25...
    F*** supplements, be a d*** man and get that **** naturally ya dig?!!
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    Originally Posted by AllPump3dUp View Post
    I started implementing this today as followed (quad dominate)

    5x5 Barbell Back Squat
    5x5 Deadlift
    4x10 Leg Press
    3x10 Good Mornings
    4x10 BB Hip Thrusts
    12,12,10,8,8 Seated Calf Raises
    5x12 Smith-Machine Calf Raises

    How does this look plus i added a heavy 1 set burn out session at the end on leg extensions. Should i change anything or does this look pretty solid for quad, ass, and calf day?

    new PR was 235 @ 5 reps today. Increases in numbers like a mother f****er!!!!!!
    I think that it's an ambitious day, but I don't think anyone can perform to their best potential on deadlift 5x5 after a squat 5x5. You may want to have another leg day for dead or have your deadlift as the opener/main event on your back day.

    Those are definitely some great moves though
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    Originally Posted by girthypiece View Post
    Repped for testicles reference. Have you tried blood flow restriction training for calves?
    Hey

    I don't have any experience with restriction training, but I imagine it hurts like hell. I do worry about vein thrombosis and or compartment syndrome, but I would love to see accelerated gains in the hams and calves.

    What has your experience been with the method?
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    Originally Posted by Tampoco View Post
    I think that it's an ambitious day, but I don't think anyone can perform to their best potential on deadlift 5x5 after a squat 5x5. You may want to have another leg day for dead or have your deadlift as the opener/main event on your back day.

    Those are definitely some great moves though
    Sounds like a good move. Could i replace it with a front squat 5x5 or what rep scheme am i looking for? I was definitely surprised about the weight i hit on that last dead, 235 for 5 reps. when just a few months ago 235 was my 1 rep. ****in monster now hahaha
    Keepin it around 40/35/25...
    F*** supplements, be a d*** man and get that **** naturally ya dig?!!
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    Originally Posted by AllPump3dUp View Post
    Sounds like a good move. Could i replace it with a front squat 5x5 or what rep scheme am i looking for? I was definitely surprised about the weight i hit on that last dead, 235 for 5 reps. when just a few months ago 235 was my 1 rep. ****in monster now hahaha
    Lol yes you are a god among men... 235x5.

    I recommend you get on a basic program and give it a year or so before you get creative. Set ambitious goals for yourself and plan the next year as a journey for 400lb dead, 300lb squat, 225lb bench or something like that.

    Front squats are great, but a 5x5 scheme is going to have you around ~80% of your max, which is tough after already hitting back squat.

    Today my deads were 5x5 at 455 and on my 5th set I went balls out for 10 reps. Couldn't quite lock out #11. Glutes quit on me
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