Article: Post Workout Protein Needs

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    Article: Post Workout Protein Needs



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    "That translates to just under 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day. Consume any more, and its likely just going to waste."

    Sure, but wouldn't you rather give your body more than enough to take full advantage of the synthesis process than not enough and not take full advantage of each workout?
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    Look up Layne Norton. He has a lot of insight on protein needed. May surprise you.
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    Good info
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    Duplicate
    Last edited by drewsicle3210; 02-06-2013 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Duplicate
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    the 1:1 ratio is simply a lie. Its been proven time and time again that an excess in protein (amino acids) is needed for not only muscle proliferation, hypertrophy, and repair. In maintance sure the 1:1 thing is fine, but for those that are serious lifters and athletes 1.5 or 2:1 is more appropriate and beneficial. Your body uses aminos for daily metabolic functions and then uses excess for repairs and other process.
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    Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    the 1:1 ratio is simply a lie. Its been proven time and time again that an excess in protein (amino acids) is needed for not only muscle proliferation, hypertrophy, and repair. In maintance sure the 1:1 thing is fine, but for those that are serious lifters and athletes 1.5 or 2:1 is more appropriate and beneficial. Your body uses aminos for daily metabolic functions and then uses excess for repairs and other process.
    1:1 turns out to be a solid recommendation. 1.5:1 is top end, 2:1 will probably never be needed. Your FSR (Fractional Synthetic Rate), caused by training (particularly volume), establishes how much protein you can utilize for muscle tissue proliferation. Someone with 180-185lbs of lbm, which is pretty freaking jacked, under moderate volume loads, can generally utilize around 30-35g of protein per meal. This will go up with really high training volume, but not drastically.

    Now, the main reason to not jack protein up to super high levels is this: On a gram for gram basis, carbohydrates are more anabolic than protein, because of their effects on insulin and mTOR. If you take in too much protein and keep carbs and fats the same, you get fatter. If you jack protein up and adjust carbs down you don't get a big enough anabolic response and you dont get as jacked. Fats can be adjusted, but their are optimal levels of fat as well, so if they are adjusted down, it can put you in a similar situation.

    Excess protein is the same as any other excess calories. too much turns to fat.
    Need2 Transformation Progress http://anabolicminds.com/forum/needtobuildmuscle-mrsupps/167648-legacyfighters-needtobuildmuscle-contest.html
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    Originally Posted by Legacyfighter View Post
    1:1 turns out to be a solid recommendation. 1.5:1 is top end, 2:1 will probably never be needed. Your FSR (Fractional Synthetic Rate), caused by training (particularly volume), establishes how much protein you can utilize for muscle tissue proliferation. Someone with 180-185lbs of lbm, which is pretty freaking jacked, under moderate volume loads, can generally utilize around 30-35g of protein per meal. This will go up with really high training volume, but not drastically.Now, the main reason to not jack protein up to super high levels is this: On a gram for gram basis, carbohydrates are more anabolic than protein, because of their effects on insulin and mTOR. If you take in too much protein and keep carbs and fats the same, you get fatter. If you jack protein up and adjust carbs down you don't get a big enough anabolic response and you dont get as jacked. Fats can be adjusted, but their are optimal levels of fat as well, so if they are adjusted down, it can put you in a similar situation.Excess protein is the same as any other excess calories. too much turns to fat.
    Good job, Thanks
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    Originally Posted by Legacyfighter View Post
    1:1 turns out to be a solid recommendation. 1.5:1 is top end, 2:1 will probably never be needed. Your FSR (Fractional Synthetic Rate), caused by training (particularly volume), establishes how much protein you can utilize for muscle tissue proliferation. Someone with 180-185lbs of lbm, which is pretty freaking jacked, under moderate volume loads, can generally utilize around 30-35g of protein per meal. This will go up with really high training volume, but not drastically.

    Now, the main reason to not jack protein up to super high levels is this: On a gram for gram basis, carbohydrates are more anabolic than protein, because of their effects on insulin and mTOR. If you take in too much protein and keep carbs and fats the same, you get fatter. If you jack protein up and adjust carbs down you don't get a big enough anabolic response and you dont get as jacked. Fats can be adjusted, but their are optimal levels of fat as well, so if they are adjusted down, it can put you in a similar situation.

    Excess protein is the same as any other excess calories. too much turns to fat.
    not be a dick, but did you read the part where i said that your body uses aminos for far more than just muscle proliferation and reconstruction? Amino acids are the basis and building blocks of around 90% of our bodies required metabolic functions, everything from nueronal repair, to digestion, to regulation of our autonomic and sympathetic nervous systems.

    Your right, if your talking about PURE SIZE, carbs are more anabolic than protein. but one could argue that your body can go the longest without carbs in the diet. Read that again because i think what you read was "CARBS ARE THE LEAST ESSENTIAL MACRO AND ARENT IMPORTANT", what i said was that "one could argue that your body can go the longest without carbs included in the diet."

    luckily for us, our bodies are smart, and it prioritizes where these nutrients go, namely it will use all macros for 1. Major/required metabolic funtions. and then 2. repair and reproduction of all tissues and cells in the body. It will partition more nutrients into making RBC, luekocytes, and nervous tissue before it will dedicate the required resources to maximize the repair of muscle tissue via the mTOR, and other various pathways.

    This is why i say that PWO, and in diets in general, proteins should be at the center, and then the other macros should be based on that requirement.
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
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    MANotaur: I completely understand that amino acids are used for more than just muscle proliferation. I also never thought that you meant that carbs are the least essential macro and therefore aren't important. You obviously understand that carbs are important based on your post. However, the fact remains that 1.5:1 is the most anyone will ever need. Maybe in cases of severe overtraining when muscular damage is through the roof and your FSR curve is ridiculously elevated. You just won't find any studies saying that more that 1.5:1 are ever needed, even for athletes. Once the basic levels of protein for recovery and adaptation have been consumed, carbohydrates become more anabolic on a gram per gram basis.

    Like you stated, carbs are a non essential nutrient. The body can make its own glucose through gluconeogenesis. Glucose is important because it is the CNS' primary fuel source. Without it, we die. The body can only produce so much glucose through gluconeogenesis though. So, if performance is the goal carbohydrates MUST be consumed.

    Finally, I agree that protein is the number one most important nutrient in sports performance. All of macros should be decided on AFTER protein amounts have been established. BUT, overall protein consumption does not need to be super high. 1.5:1 should be close to ideal. This takes into account ALL of the functions of proteins and amino acids. Once that base line has been established carbs and fats should be adjusted accordingly.

    Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    not be a dick, but did you read the part where i said that your body uses aminos for far more than just muscle proliferation and reconstruction? Amino acids are the basis and building blocks of around 90% of our bodies required metabolic functions, everything from nueronal repair, to digestion, to regulation of our autonomic and sympathetic nervous systems.

    Your right, if your talking about PURE SIZE, carbs are more anabolic than protein. but one could argue that your body can go the longest without carbs in the diet. Read that again because i think what you read was "CARBS ARE THE LEAST ESSENTIAL MACRO AND ARENT IMPORTANT", what i said was that "one could argue that your body can go the longest without carbs included in the diet."

    luckily for us, our bodies are smart, and it prioritizes where these nutrients go, namely it will use all macros for 1. Major/required metabolic funtions. and then 2. repair and reproduction of all tissues and cells in the body. It will partition more nutrients into making RBC, luekocytes, and nervous tissue before it will dedicate the required resources to maximize the repair of muscle tissue via the mTOR, and other various pathways.

    This is why i say that PWO, and in diets in general, proteins should be at the center, and then the other macros should be based on that requirement.
    Need2 Transformation Progress http://anabolicminds.com/forum/needtobuildmuscle-mrsupps/167648-legacyfighters-needtobuildmuscle-contest.html
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    Originally Posted by Legacyfighter View Post
    MANotaur: I completely understand that amino acids are used for more than just muscle proliferation. I also never thought that you meant that carbs are the least essential macro and therefore aren't important. You obviously understand that carbs are important based on your post. However, the fact remains that 1.5:1 is the most anyone will ever need. Maybe in cases of severe overtraining when muscular damage is through the roof and your FSR curve is ridiculously elevated. You just won't find any studies saying that more that 1.5:1 are ever needed, even for athletes. Once the basic levels of protein for recovery and adaptation have been consumed, carbohydrates become more anabolic on a gram per gram basis.

    Like you stated, carbs are a non essential nutrient. The body can make its own glucose through gluconeogenesis. Glucose is important because it is the CNS' primary fuel source. Without it, we die. The body can only produce so much glucose through gluconeogenesis though. So, if performance is the goal carbohydrates MUST be consumed.

    Finally, I agree that protein is the number one most important nutrient in sports performance. All of macros should be decided on AFTER protein amounts have been established. BUT, overall protein consumption does not need to be super high. 1.5:1 should be close to ideal. This takes into account ALL of the functions of proteins and amino acids. Once that base line has been established carbs and fats should be adjusted accordingly.
    I agree that 1.5 is ideal . But I don't necessarily agree with the premis that more than that is bad. But with all things, moderation is key and the individual needs to pay attention to their body. Also I should clarify that I was meaning overall in a diet and not just pre or post workout!

    But your right though there aren't any studies that support that claim of 2:1 and I need to be careful about that. I've just personally found that my body is a protein and amino hog and I do very well with a 2:1 ratio and the bulk of my carbs peri workout

    ~ MANotaur
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.
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    Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    I agree that 1.5 is ideal . But I don't necessarily agree with the premis that more than that is bad. But with all things, moderation is key and the individual needs to pay attention to their body. Also I should clarify that I was meaning overall in a diet and not just pre or post workout!

    But your right though there aren't any studies that support that claim of 2:1 and I need to be careful about that. I've just personally found that my body is a protein and amino hog and I do very well with a 2:1 ratio and the bulk of my carbs peri workout

    ~ MANotaur
    Its not that too much protein is inherently bad. Its just that it may not be optimal. Now, here is something interesting: On your non workout days you can actually increase that protein intake to 2:1, especially if you trained hard for the days leading up to it. The days after a heavy/ high volume training load, the FSR curve is elevated, so increased protein requirements exist. On these days carbs should be limited in order to optimize insulin sensitivity and reduce overall fat acretion. On workout days, too much protein can affect the overall anabolic response negatively, because the MOST important factor on these days is glucose uptake. Not to a crazy amount, but it is slightly suboptimal.

    If you work well on higher amounts of protein, there is no way I can argue against it. People all have their own variables that make them a little different.
    Need2 Transformation Progress http://anabolicminds.com/forum/needtobuildmuscle-mrsupps/167648-legacyfighters-needtobuildmuscle-contest.html
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