Article: Should Obesity Be Stigmatized?

[MANotaur]

Hello Pot.

I only utilized such an analogy because you felt the need to do so in the last debate thread. Using an extreme example.

Your inability to view the entire issue though is a bit reprehensible. You are putting a band aid over a bullet wound. To say the increasing science coming to light on genetic mutations has no bearing, and to just get over it, is ignorant to the issue at hand. We are just starting to scratch the genetic surface on all research too.

Ironically I wasn't even using that as a main arguement topic... I just asked if they are lumped in the same group. You went on a crusade about using it as a crutch. You never answered me though... do you think people like this want to be fat? They just say, I'm genetically screwed, so might as well keep going?

A complex problem has no easy solution.

i think theres very few people in the world that want to be fat, but unfortunately great scientific discoveries and breakthroughs far too often get abused and misused. i do see the entire issue at hand and i understand that there are way to many issues to just single out one, but the point is that something, somewhere, has to be done in order for people to make the decision to get the help they need themselves

and yeah i have a habbit of doing that lol just ask southpaw.

but your absolutely right it is a complex problem and it doesnt have an easy answer, but we have to start somewhere. i just feel that sugar coating isnt the way to do it. granted that stigmas isnt the best, ive just found that with my personality and my experiences, its a least a good way to get the ball rolling.

[MANotaur]

Which is astonishing because you write like a drunk person talks at 3 in the morning. I kid! :)

i amaze myself at times too....i cant tell you how many times i go through and read something ive written and say..."the hell did i just say?"

no need to kid...its the truth! (see what i did there :))

[southpaw23]

I go to the gym, but I don't love it and that includes sparring, lifting, conditioning etc. I hate it, nobody wants to get up in the morning and do that stuff. Of course I do it anyway. I'd take a pill if one existed where I'd no longer need to do those things. Not everyone wants to go to the gym and refer to everyone as "bro" for an hour and a half.

[TexasGuy]

Well some of these examples have gotten a little out of hand. We can't compare tobacco addiction to obesity but we can compare obesity to a cleft lip?

With very few exceptions, obesity is a "disease" of choice.

All of a sudden, within the last decade or so, something like 35% of the US population wound up with some kind of obese gene? Not hardly. Sure there are genetic issues but they are certainly limited in scope. And if you consider overweight and not just the obese you are looking at another 33%. Together, obese and simply overweight people comprise roughly 66% of the whole population of the United States over the age of 20.

Outright bullying may not be the way to go but coddling sure as **** isn't either.

I, for one, would like to see better education relating to health. I think physical education and nutritional classes should be mandatory in our educational system. I agree with laws forcing restaurants to show nutritional info. Unfortunately, most people don't even know what the hell they are reading.

I think doctors should refer overweight and especially obese patients to physical therapy clinics who should broaden their scope to bringing people in to healthy ranges. Exercise should be prescribed for cholesterol, tight muscles et cetera instead of pharma solutions.

I do believe a media campaign to create awareness would be helpful, not only to spread information and create an interest in health but as personal, periodic reminders too.

Considering cigarettes, these methods do work. Slapping a surgeon generals warning on a box and then using the media to push the message of how dangerous tobacco can be certainly enlightened a generation of people who smoke significantly less than previous generations, although tobacco is still legal and readily available for consumption. We are simply more educated about its downside nowdays and usage is down significantly.

If people shun smokers in public places (I do and am happy for smoking bans) it only helps to reinforce the message, although the campaign against smoking isn't based on "shunning" people at all, this aspect is simply human nature.

If doughboy is ostracized and decides to take charge of his health because of it, good. How many wimpy kids picked up a dumbell or started playing sports to "show them"? A lot. And if he decides to ingore information and helpful tools to be healthy, screw him. We all make the beds we sleep in and personal responsibility is unfortunately a rare commodity these days, probably an underlying factor but a different topic altogether.

He and his fat wife create sensory pollution for me in public. It's disgusting, unsettling and smelly, not unlike a garbage dump. Not only that but I fly, a lot. I can't tell you how many fat people have hung over in my seat space on a plane and then hit that ****ing stewardess light for cokes and peanuts the whole god damned flight. They definitely owe me some "rent" on my flight space. And when they eat, they are noisier than my dogs, but I digress.

Negative reinforcement does have it's place when positive coaxing obviously isn't working.

[MANotaur]

Two different things. Cleft lip and palate are separate, but often are seen together, but not always.

used to be the thought, just recently (within the past year) theyve found that they are always together its just that one trait may not be as expressed to the degree as others. so with that theyve ruled deemed the proper term "cleft palate" as thats what the brains behind the discovery felt appropriate.

unless its changed again you might be more up to date than me

[TexasGuy]

I go to the gym, but I don't love it and that includes sparring, lifting, conditioning etc. I hate it, nobody wants to get up in the morning and do that stuff. Of course I do it anyway. I'd take a pill if one existed where I'd no longer need to do those things. Not everyone wants to go to the jump and call everyone "bro" for an hour and a half.

I love working out and don't call anyone a bro, unless I'm being sarcastic.

I find inherent pleasure in setting and accomplishing goals and the gym is one place I can manifest this pleasure, along with self improvement.

If I'm feeling stressed, a heavy leg day or even a long run is like a drug, mentally and physically considering hormonal releases.

Working out in the morning, I feel more energetic, upbeat and ready to take on the world. Sometimes I need to exercise the willpower you mention but not on a regular basis.

I would take a pill too to be sure I cover all my bases, but it would never replace genuine achievement for me.

I feel like you are saying fat asses are weak minded, unmotivated individuals who happen to lack willpower to boot, which is probably true.

I don't know how to fix that, not without some kind of exterior motivation since the interior is obviously whacked. Generally the lazy and unmotivated need a kick in the ass as opposed to a carrot (cupcake) on a stick too, because they are lazy and unmotivated to chase that cupcake.

Make their couch uncomfortable though and they will move.

[MANotaur]

Well some of these examples have gotten a little out of hand. We can't compare tobacco addiction to obesity but we can compare obesity to a cleft lip?

With very few exceptions, obesity is a "disease" of choice.

All of a sudden, within the last decade or so, something like 35% of the US population wound up with some kind of obese gene? Not hardley. Sure there are genetic issues but they are certainly limited in scope. And if you consider overweight and not just the obese you are looking at another 33%. Together, obese and simply overweight people comprise roughly 66% of the whole population of the United States over the age of 20.

Outright bullying may not be the way to go but coddling sure as **** isn't either.

I, for one, would like to see better education relating to health. I think physical education and nutritional classes should be mandatory in our educational system. I agree with laws forcing restaurants to show nutritional info. Unfortunately, most people don't even know what the hell they are reading.

I think doctors should refer overweight and especially obese patients to physical therapy clinics who should broaden their scope to bringing people in to healthy ranges. Exercise should be prescribed for cholesterol, tight muscles et cetera instead of pharma solutions.

I do believe a media campaign to create awareness would be helpful, not only to spread information and create an interest in health but as personal, periodic reminders too.

Considering cigarettes, these methods do work. Slapping a surgeon generals warning on a box and then using the media to push the message of how dangerous tobacco can be certainly enlightened a generation of people who smoke significantly less than previous generations, although tobacco is still legal and readily available for consumption. We are simply more educated about its downside nowdays and usage is down significantly.

If people shun smokers in public places (I do and am happy for smoking bans) it only helps to reinforce the message, although the campaign against smoking isn't based on "shunning" people at all, this aspect is simply human nature.

If doughboy is ostracized and decides to take charge of his health because of it, good. How many wimpy kids picked up a dumbell or started playing sports to "show them"? A lot. And if he decides to ingore information and helpful tools to be healthy, screw him. We all make the beds we sleep in and personal responsibility is unfortunately a rare commodity these days, probably an underlying factor but a different topic altogether.

He and his fat wife create sensory pollution for me in public. It's disgusting, unsettling and smelly, not unlike a garbage dump. Not only that but I fly, a lot. I can't tell you how many fat people have hung over in my seat space on a plane and then hit that ****ing stewardess light for cokes and peanuts the whole god damned flight. They definitely owe me some "rent" on my flight space. And when they eat, they are noisier than my dogs, but I digress.

Negative reinforcement does have it's place when positive coaxing obviously isn't working.

texas...before we get started i have to preface your entry with "eat ****"

and also...LADIES AND GENTLEMAN! TEXAS IS HERE!! did you bring GW along?

i have to agree with you though that ignorance isnt an excuse and kids do need to be better educated about the issues at hand as well as adults.

[southpaw23]

Well some of these examples have gotten a little out of hand. We can't compare tobacco addiction to obesity but we can compare obesity to a cleft lip?

With very few exceptions, obesity is a "disease" of choice.

All of a sudden, within the last decade or so, something like 35% of the US population wound up with some kind of obese gene? Not hardley. Sure there are genetic issues but they are certainly limited in scope. And if you consider overweight and not just the obese you are looking at another 33%. Together, obese and simply overweight people comprise roughly 66% of the whole population of the United States over the age of 20.

Outright bullying may not be the way to go but coddling sure as **** isn't either.

I, for one, would like to see better education relating to health. I think physical education and nutritional classes should be mandatory in our educational system. I agree with laws forcing restaurants to show nutritional info. Unfortunately, most people don't even know what the hell they are reading.

I think doctors should refer overweight and especially obese patients to physical therapy clinics who should broaden their scope to bringing people in to healthy ranges. Exercise should be prescribed for cholesterol, tight muscles et cetera instead of pharma solutions.

I do believe a media campaign to create awareness would be helpful, not only to spread information and create an interest in health but as personal, periodic reminders too.

Considering cigarettes, these methods do work. Slapping a surgeon generals warning on a box and then using the media to push the message of how dangerous tobacco can be certainly enlightened a generation of people who smoke significantly less than previous generations, although tobacco is still legal and readily available for consumption. We are simply more educated about its downside nowdays and usage is down significantly.

If people shun smokers in public places (I do and am happy for smoking bans) it only helps to reinforce the message, although the campaign against smoking isn't based on "shunning" people at all, this aspect is simply human nature.

If doughboy is ostracized and decides to take charge of his health because of it, good. How many wimpy kids picked up a dumbell or started playing sports to "show them"? A lot. And if he decides to ingore information and helpful tools to be healthy, screw him. We all make the beds we sleep in and personal responsibility is unfortunately a rare commodity these days, probably an underlying factor but a different topic altogether.

He and his fat wife create sensory pollution for me in public. It's disgusting, unsettling and smelly, not unlike a garbage dump. Not only that but I fly, a lot. I can't tell you how many fat people have hung over in my seat space on a plane and then hit that ****ing stewardess light for cokes and peanuts the whole god damned flight. They definitely owe me some "rent" on my flight space. And when they eat, they are noisier than my dogs, but I digress.

Negative reinforcement does have it's place when positive coaxing obviously isn't working.

There was an overweight 16 year old kid who'd come into my gym. He would workout in the corner and I'd hear people make snide remarks about him, mind you he was doing something. The act of getting up and walking into a gym when you're obese is a sign of strength. Rather than making fun of the kid, which would have led him to go home and feel worse about himself, feel stressed and succumb to triggers, end up making poor choices, I worked out with him. I dragged him to play sports and put him on my team, against the wishes of everyone else on the team. Lol. At the end of 3 months he dropped a substantial amount of weight, had more self confidence and gained a new friend. He's a good kid, who deserved help not someone's pity or shame.

[southpaw23]

I love working out and don't call anyone a bro, unless I'm being sarcastic.

I find inherent pleasure in setting and accomplishing goals and the gym is one place I can manifest this pleasure, along with self improvement.

If I'm feeling stressed, a heavy leg day or even a long run is like a drug, mentally and physically considering hormonal releases.

Working out in the morning, I feel more energetic, upbeat and ready to take on the world. Sometimes I need to exercise the willpower you mention but not on a regular basis.

I would take a pill too to be sure I cover all my bases, but it would never replace genuine achievement for me.

I feel like you are saying fat asses are weak minded, unmotivated individuals who happen to lack willpower to boot, which is probably true.

I don't know how to fix that, not without some kind of exterior motivation since the interior is obviously whacked. Generally the lazy and unmotivated need a kick in the ass as opposed to a carrot (cupcake) on a stick too, because they are lazy and unmotivated to chase that cupcake.

Make their couch uncomfortable though and they will move.

And that's great. I find inherent pleasure in reading, going to museums and traveling. Lifting things up and putting them down just happens to fall in there somewhere. It's not like we're curing cancer over here, you know what I mean. Perspective.

[MANotaur]

There was an overweight 16 year old kid who'd come into my gym. He would workout in the corner and I'd hear people make remarks, mind you he's doing something. The act of getting up and walking into a gym when your obese is a sign of strength. Rather than make fun of the kid, which will lead him to go home and feel worse about himself, feel stressed and succumb to triggers and make poor choices, I worked out with him. I dragged him to play sports and put him on my team against the wishes of everyone else on the team. Lol. At the end of 3 months he dropped a substantial amount of weight, had more self confidence and gained a new friend. He's a good kid, who deserved help not pitied or shamed.

^^
this is how its done! and you are applauded for it!
your a good man! its a shame you have to lose all of our arguments ;)

[southpaw23]

^^
this is how its done! and you are applauded for it!
your a good man! its a shame you have to lose all of our arguments ;)

Lol. I only lose on a "fitness" forum...infer away.

[TexasGuy]

There was an overweight 16 year old kid who'd come into my gym. He would workout in the corner and I'd hear people make snide remarks about him, mind you he was doing something. The act of getting up and walking into a gym when you're obese is a sign of strength. Rather than makeing fun of the kid, which would have led him to go home and feel worse about himself, feel stressed and succumb to triggers, end up making poor choices, I worked out with him. I dragged him to play sports and put him on my team, against the wishes of everyone else on the team. Lol. At the end of 3 months he dropped a substantial amount of weight, had more self confidence and gained a new friend. He's a good kid, who deserved help not someone's pity or shame.

That kid got the education, support and more than likely negative motivation to make the changes I discussed in the post you quoted. Good for him. Now if he can do it...

[TexasGuy]

And that's great. I find inherent pleasure in reading, going to museums and traveling. Lifting things up and putting them down just happens to fall in there somewhere. It's not like we're curing cancer over here, you know what I mean. Perspective.

As do I. Perspective, however, is broad regarding health. Nobody finds pleasure in being unhealthy. And obesity is potentially more dangerous than cancer. Heart disease is the number one killer of Americans, with cancer in second place.

Maybe we should be creating at least the same level of awareness for the dangers of obesity. We hear all about carcinogens and various habits to avoid in order to avoid cancer. Lets bring on the fat ass habits to avoid heart attacks too. It would be a public service if nothing else.

We aren't talking about striated shoulders and glass cutting abs here, but general health. "Perspective" is a weak argument against health.

Edit: Obesity is even believed to lead to certain types of cancer, as fat cells retain various carcinogens ingested from our environment and, oddly, ****ty foods. It's very deadly and certainly deserves aggressive attention.

[MANotaur]

Lol. I only lose on a "fitness" forum...infer away.

lol you might actually be a bigger smart ass than i am...thats hard to do

That kid got the education, support and more than likely negative motivation to make the changes I discussed in the post you quoted. Good for him. Now if he can do it...

good point with "now if he can do it"
the "pass it on" trait really is an important factor in all of this. its important to be able to relate to others when your seeking or giving advice.

[MANotaur]

And obesity is potentially more dangerous than cancer. Heart disease is the number one killer of Americans, with cancer in second place.

i though it was accidents....im pretty sure that it is accidents actually...

[TexasGuy]

i though it was accidents....im pretty sure that it is accidents actually...

Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death in the United States; one in every three deaths is from heart disease and stroke, equal to 2,200 deaths per day.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/heartmonth/


Perhaps accidents for children.

[MANotaur]

Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death in the United States; one in every three deaths is from heart disease and stroke, equal to 2,200 deaths per day.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/heartmonth/

Perhaps accidents for children.

your right...just checked my references...overall your right, i was thinking demographic, leading cause of death in men between the ages of 18 and 45 is accidents

[MANotaur]

and still no GW?? really tex?

[TexasGuy]

Just total deaths. And that doesn't even account for all the fat kids today that will follow their fat parents, and earlier. I'm betting we see a wider margin of obesity related deaths in the next decade or two to come. But hey, 66% of the total population can't be wrong, and we certainly shouldn't tell them they are too fat.

[MANotaur]

just did it for you!

and heaven forbid we not tell them