Cissus RX FAQ?
- 01-21-2006, 10:40 AM
Cissus RX FAQ?
I bought 2 bottles of this the other day for a nagging shoulder issue.
Anyhoo, i was looking on here and on your synergymuscle site for a full write-up and/or an FAQ etc to no avail. I've run a few searches, but there's not much together in one place so its getting confusing.
Anyone link me to a full write-up or FAQ please?
- 01-21-2006, 11:29 AM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
Author : Nandi [Contact Author]
Summary : An herbal extract with antiglucocorticoid action
By Karl Hoffmann
Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus’ ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.
With studies showing that hormone replacement therapy in postmenopausal women may increase the risk of breast cancer and heart disease, many women are looking at alternatives to estrogen to help prevent osteoporosis. Although there appears to be no published research showing that Cissus increases bone density in osteoporosis, or helps prevent the disease, the fact that the herb speeds recovery of fractures suggests that may increase bone density as well. It would almost certainly help speed the recovery of fractures that are a common occurrence with osteoporosis. Chronic glucocorticoid therapy is a high risk factor for the development of osteoporosis. Glucocorticoids are believed to interfere with the action of osteoblasts, the cells that are responsible of the deposition of new bone material. The drug mefipristone (RU-486), an antiglucocorticoid as well as progesterone antagonist, has been successfully used to treat osteoporosis but the side effects, such as endometrial hyperplasia, are serious enough to preclude its routine use for the treatment of osteoporosis. Cissus seems to be devoid of such side effects and may prove to be a viable compound in osteoporosis treatment.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucocorticoids, including the body’s endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and overtraining) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucocorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing suggests it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this were the case it would be of even greater benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.
Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).
The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus extract is between 100 and 500 mg, depending on the concentration of the extract and the severity of symptoms. For the powder of the dried plant, the Ayurvedic texts recommend a dosage of 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.
Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis constitutes one of the ingredients of an Ayurvedic preparation, `Laksha Gogglu', which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.
1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8
2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.
3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.
4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.
5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.
6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.
7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 01-22-2006, 10:41 AM
01-22-2006, 12:19 PM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
no problem hun...
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
01-22-2006, 12:54 PM
Interesting to see that the only benefits referenced with studies are for healing of fractures and increases in bone density.
Only a statement of "the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing suggests it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons".
Sounds like Cissus is best use for bone/fracture issues.
01-22-2006, 01:13 PM
In bone Fractures connective tissue is injured. For a fracture to heal the connective tissue must also heal.Originally Posted by jmh80
Yes all of Cissus Research focuses on fracture healing, but the overwhelming Real world feedback is that it also heals tendon, ligament and cartliage related injuries.
01-22-2006, 01:18 PM
'Tis true - most folks seem to have commented on tendon/ligament issues and CRX's effect on them.
01-22-2006, 02:08 PM
I have tendonitis at the elbow insertion point of the long head of my bicep brachii. I am 159 capsules into a bottle of Cissus and have not found any relief. Not doubting other user's experiences, it just hasn't helped me out.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
01-22-2006, 02:18 PM
I didn't see any relief from what feels like liagement pain right above my right kneecap. I used 2 bottles.
Some folks simply don't respond.
01-22-2006, 02:56 PM
Yup, there will be non responders, but you must also change your training style to a rehab approach...
01-24-2006, 08:54 PM
have you tried neoprene/rubber, gusseted, elbow bracing sleeves? I bought some at a sports store, Nike brand, that work perfectly and have helped eliminate my issues with elbow tendonitis and pulling motion pain.Originally Posted by jonny21
01-27-2006, 05:25 AM
Been on six days now (today is the 6th).
My shoulder is hurting more now than it was. Any ideas? Reduced cortisol effect perhaps? Is this a typical effect to occur before speedy healing?
You could really do with putting together an FAQ for stuff like this.
I've been using 4 caps thus far but i'm tempted to bump it to 6 a day.
01-27-2006, 06:32 AM
I had a bad right shoulder for a long time, incline benches seemd to aggreviate it. Tried all sorts. Cissus sorted it out in about 4 weeks. But i did have to adjust my training. I dosed up to 6 caps per day 3*2
After 6 days you may get some mild analgesic effects but its gona take longer than that.
01-27-2006, 08:36 AM
While on the subject, has anyone else gotten a dodgy shoulder from the way they sit at the computer for extended lengths of time?
I'm right handed and use my right hand to control the mouse, and i'm almost certain that has something to do with it.
01-27-2006, 08:54 AM
Jeez its as if your talking to me, im suffering from it right now at work! drives me nuts!
01-27-2006, 08:59 AM
Its more in the right trap than shoulder, almost where the neck joins the shoulder. I find i sometimes hunch my shoulders when working and it causes it. As soon as i get home its fine!
01-27-2006, 09:48 AM
I'm just about done my second bottle of CRX. At first I noticed nothing from the 2 X 2 caps dosing, than after a second week using 2 X 3 I soon began to notice my RC not hurting as bad. Now I can again do 10 reps with 200 lbs and without any limiting pain. I phrase this carefully because at the moment, my pain is about 80 to 90 % gone. I am going to continue to load up on the CRX sometimes now using 3-3-2 ( I take Celadrin 3 X ED as well) and keep my lifts on the light side until I am absolutely positive that it is safe to open it up again. Cissus has become a permanent part of my supplementation profile.
01-27-2006, 08:05 PM
I guess I am not suprised to hear that there are non responders because it must happen for everything. My experince has seen no non responders yet. Only a sample of 3 so far but after having "miracle like" reduction in pain in my bicep tendonitis I gave a bottle to a friend with knee tendonitis. He thanks me all the time he now plays pain free. (He plays like 4 days a week so he is not letting up on it) Another friend who plays baseball has reported improvement in his shoulder after only 2 weeks- he is a catcher. I just gave out 3 more bottles to see how others react. (I got a good price on one of synergy's buy 4 get 1 free deals) One is a chiropractor so I am very curious to get his reaction. Of all products I have ever tried this is the one that has made all the difference to me.
01-28-2006, 10:05 AM
Robboe, I had a very bad shoulder and other ailments but your shoulder sounds very similar to mine. When I got the Cissus I dosed it at 6 caps a day for 2 bottles worth and it worked wonders in both my hip and shoulder. I've been off of it for 3 weeks now and no more pain or relapse, this stuff gives as good results as your products doOriginally Posted by Robboe
01-31-2006, 03:26 PM
I'm currently taking glucosamine/chondroitin for my bum left shoulder and left elbow, but haven't noticed a substantial improvement. I plan to try Cissus RX soon to see if this helps. Should I continue my
glucosamine/chondroitin when I start the Cissus RX?
01-31-2006, 03:49 PM
01-31-2006, 06:25 PM
are you sure that is the mouse in your right handOriginally Posted by Robboe
01-31-2006, 09:33 PM
many people I know have that, (me included at one point)from leaning on their mouse hand/wrist, or over compensating and trying to take pressure off the wrist by supporting the arm and partial body lean all on the elbow - putting more stress on the shoulder. Take a good look at your posture and workstation set up. Do you have arms on the chair you use? Are they even with the desk surface? What kind of mouse do you use? Any wrist pad used? Do you put pressure on the palm/heel of your hand, or support your arm by firmly planting your elbow on the chair arm? Make sure you center you keyboard/monitor with your chair and have the mouse in easy reaching distance to not over extend your arm. sit square to desk/monitor and feet comfortably flat on the ground..etcOriginally Posted by Robboe
02-01-2006, 03:18 AM
I have an office chair with no arm rests.
My typical stance is hunched over, resting on my left elbow with my hand holding my chin and my right hand resting on my mouse. I have a mouse matt, and it is exactly in line with the edge of my desk.
Does that help?
02-08-2006, 08:11 AM
I have read in sereral places on the net that extended periods of mouse work at a computer desk can cause shoulder/trap tightness.
I suffer with this as i work for an IT company and see a sports masseur every other week to work on the trap area/subscapular release as after several weeks without treatment (and heavy deadlifting) the tightness can extend all the way up to the base of my skull.
Just my two penneth ;-)
02-08-2006, 08:31 AM
02-09-2006, 02:08 AM
I pay £22 for an hour mate, or £15 for half - V cheap but then ive used this person for a while now.
06-26-2007, 09:00 PM
Anyone take just 3 caps per day of supercissus and get good results....I don't feel like dropping anymore money on my PCT which is gettin a little expensive.
06-26-2007, 09:01 PM
06-26-2007, 11:42 PM
- 5'9" 175 lbs.
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Rep Power
06-27-2007, 07:35 AM
Cissus helped heal me up last year with a quickness after I had surgery to repair my broken arm. Has to be one of the best supps out there for repair.
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