PRIME question????

wolfe14

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Ok so I've been using Prime for 2 months now, Im doing the 12 week asteroid stack and Im seeing great results..But My question is this: If Prime is not a Test booster then what is it???? It claims to be a "Muscle Pill""

Could anyone please provide and answer to this? How does Prime build muscle is my question?? Hopefully someone can saitisfy my curiousity
 

Swoldierboy

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actually, prime does have a test booster in it but it also mixes with other things so its not technically a test booster or pct.if u look up tribulis which is one of the main ingredients in prime, it is a natural test booster. ppl take this alone to increase free test
 

Swoldierboy

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i took one bottle of prime and only noticed strength, not size. i heard its better to take two bottles back to back but still..
 
R-Mac

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actually, prime does have a test booster in it but it also mixes with other things so its not technically a test booster or pct.if u look up tribulis which is one of the main ingredients in prime, it is a natural test booster. ppl take this alone to increase free test
ACTUALLY it doesn't have a test booster bro...different type of trib in Prime than ALL the other products, the trib you are referring to is a completely different flavor of the trib family
 
lyfespan

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Good stack, ran it for 12 wks, nice strenght, and i did get size, as i used this to get me back off the couch(been a long tyme not werking out, wuz way outta shape)it even helped me lose my ****iedo(you know, your stomache stix out futher, than your ****ie do) and the Jack3d and look out. Very good for the begginers, even helps them plan out diet if ya use AP, and theres even the lil werkout book, with sum good stuff in it as well as different dosing plans.
 
DreamWeaver

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did you up your calories?
Yes if you want size on Prime you really have to pack away the groceries ..otherwise Prime is much better for recomp, but what a recomp. I will take fat loss and muslce gain with increase of 40-60 lbs on major lifts any day.

That in my opinion is the best way to use Prime, I have seen a loss of around 2% body fat while remaining the same weight. Which means an increase of 3-5 lbs of lean mass. This can easily be achieved in 6-8 weeks. Body composition that's what it's all about. Just find how much you need to eat to maintain your current weight on Prime which will definitely be above maintenance.
 
borobulker

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Ok so I've been using Prime for 2 months now, Im doing the 12 week asteroid stack and Im seeing great results..But My question is this: If Prime is not a Test booster then what is it???? It claims to be a "Muscle Pill""

Could anyone please provide and answer to this? How does Prime build muscle is my question?? Hopefully someone can saitisfy my curiousity
What’s In USPlabs Prime™?
USPlabs Prime™ contains two extremely potent, novel ingredients.
First is SuperAnabolic™: Our exclusive engineered extract of a species of Tribulus called Tribulus Acquaticus.

Next is CellMend™: another extract exclusive to USPlabs of a power-herb called Terminella Chebula

SuperAnabolic™
As mentioned, SuperAnabolic™ is a rare species of herb in the same family as Tribulus Terrestris. However, once you try USPlabs Prime™ you’ll soon realize the comparisons stop there.
Just like Tribulus Terrestris, Tribulus Aquaticus contains active steroidal saponins. However, the saponins in USPlabs Prime™ are unique to our specific extract of Tribulus Aquaticus and have not been found in any other compound in the world.

It’s obvious that these steroidal saponins allow for a retention of nitrogen and either a decline in the catabolic processes related to skeletal muscle or an improvement in protein synthesis; the end result of which is increased muscle mass.

CellMend™ – “King Of Medicines”
In India there has long been a secret herb used by the strongest, most virile men in India. Day in and day out, these men wake up and perform 12-14 hours of back-breaking physical labor.

In India, these men get paid on a daily basis for the work they do. There are no paychecks. On average, these men get paid $0.75-$1.00 each day in cash.

The Ayurvedic medicinal system points to a wonder-fruit called terminalia chebula. Its viewed as one of the most potent CNS and body adaptagenic compounds the world has ever seen. It’s proposed that terminalia chebula balances the entire body mentally and physically - placing your body in a perfect state of balance during times of intense stress.

Terminalia Chebula is called the “King of Medicines” by those in India. It’s always listed first in the Ayurvedic meteria medica because of its extraordinary powers of healing. According to Charak, the most eminent Ayurvedic physician, Terminalia Chebula is the best fruit for rejuvenation and disease cure.

Additional Terminalia Chebula benefits:
  • Also contains antioxidant components, which indicates it may increase the life of tissues.
  • In Ayurveda, Terminalia Chebula is used for ‘Srotoshodhana’ or purifying the channels of body
  • It’s thought to stimulate & protect the liver.
  • When taken with meals, it’s believed to sharpen the intellect, increases strength, stimulates the senses, expel urine, stool and other waste materials from the body.
  • It’s used in nervous weakness & irritability. It promotes the receiving power of the five senses.
  • Based on its comprehensive properties, it promotes appetite and helps indigestion.
Pretty cool compound, right?
 

Sub7

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It was once stated by USP Labs that PRIME works not by activating the androgen receptor (AR) but through non AR mediated means. When I asked how we knew this, I was pointed to a study that shows PRIME does not impact the cortisol receptors (if I am not mistaken, it does not act as a cortisol antagonist). So can we conclude based on that info that PRIME does not activate AR (due to the relationship between androgen and cortisol receptors?)? If my understanding is wrong, can someone shed further light on how/why PRIME does/does not activate AR?
 
oufinny

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i took one bottle of prime and only noticed strength, not size. i heard its better to take two bottles back to back but still..
Read the label and booklet inside and you will see that it is recommended to take it for a minimum of 6 weeks. Also, there are diet suggestions inside that are designed around adding mass.
 
strategicmove

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It was once stated by USP Labs that PRIME works not by activating the androgen receptor (AR) but through non AR mediated means. When I asked how we knew this, I was pointed to a study that shows PRIME does not impact the cortisol receptors (if I am not mistaken, it does not act as a cortisol antagonist). So can we conclude based on that info that PRIME does not activate AR (due to the relationship between androgen and cortisol receptors?)? If my understanding is wrong, can someone shed further light on how/why PRIME does/does not activate AR?
1) Our original postulate was that PRIME did not possess hormonal activity.
2) Did you read the PRIME study?
3) Did you see the following thread?
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/114262-usplabs-conducts-study.html
4) What, in your opinion, is the relationship between "androgen and cortisol receptors"?
 

Sub7

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Yes I did read the study and I did read the thread you linked. Let me ask again:

Does PRIME activate the androgen receptor?
The study says nothing about the ar. It concludes "PRIME does not have antagonistic activity at the glucocorticoid receptor".

Thanks

PS:
"4) What, in your opinion, is the relationship between "androgen and cortisol receptors"?"
I do not know the answer to this question, so please elaborate.
 
strategicmove

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Yes I did read the study and I did read the thread you linked. Let me ask again:

Does PRIME activate the androgen receptor?
The study says nothing about the ar. It concludes "PRIME does not have antagonistic activity at the glucocorticoid receptor".

Thanks

PS:
"4) What, in your opinion, is the relationship between "androgen and cortisol receptors"?"
I do not know the answer to this question, so please elaborate.
The glucocorticoid receptor is an important site for the modulation of hormonal activity involving deep metabolic results, including androgen:glucocorticoid ratios, useful signals for the presence of anabolic (and/or anti-catabolic) activity. According to the study, PRIME does not act via glucocorticoid antagonism, suggesting that it does not act via inducing a hormonal action. Considering the existence of a negative correlation between glucocorticoids (in particular, cortisol) and androgens (in particular, testosterone), the lack of a glucocorticoid-antagonistic action by PRIME translates into a neutral effect on androgen levels, answering not only your first question, but your question (4) as well.
 

Sub7

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A very evasive and murky answer. First you ask about the relationship between glucocorticoids and androgens, as if there was a one-to-one correlation between these two, and then throw this one out:

"According to the study, PRIME does not act via glucocorticoid antagonism, suggesting that it does not act via inducing a hormonal action. Considering the existence of a negative correlation between glucocorticoids (in particular, cortisol) and androgens (in particular, testosterone), the lack of a glucocorticoid-antagonistic action by PRIME translates into a neutral effect on androgen levels, answering not only your first question, but your question (4) as well."

What you are saying is "PRIME will not effect androgen levels VIA THE GLUCOCORTICOID PATHWAY". You are not saying anything more or beyond this. You do not at all touch upon the main question that i had which was:

DOES THIS FU@KIN PRODUCT BIND TO THE AR???

Instead of simply stating "we do not know for sure because the only product we looked at analyzed the relationship to the g.corticoid activity" you speak with a terrible attitude and throw out circumstantial evidence that by no means provides a satisfactory answer to my question and then finish by saying: "answering not only your first question, but your question (4) as well."

no it does not.

and to say "According to the study, PRIME does not act via glucocorticoid antagonism, suggesting that it does not act via inducing a hormonal action" WHAT??????? Are you drunk man? Are you saying that any substance on earth that does not not act via glucocorticoid antagonism has no hormonal activity in the body. Are you aware that there are numerous other hormones in the body in addition to glucocorticoids?

So someone a little more straightforward, from the company or otherwise, please chime in here. This person is a pain in the neck to deal with.

Sub7

PS: Funny, I only had one single question. So "answering not only your first question, but your question (4) as well." shows an inability to distinguish between your and my questions even. I copied and pasted your question, which you ended up thinking was mine. Hahahahaha.... ridiculous.
 
strategicmove

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It was once stated by USP Labs that PRIME works not by activating the androgen receptor (AR) but through non AR mediated means. When I asked how we knew this, I was pointed to a study that shows PRIME does not impact the cortisol receptors (if I am not mistaken, it does not act as a cortisol antagonist). So can we conclude based on that info that PRIME does not activate AR (due to the relationship between androgen and cortisol receptors?)? If my understanding is wrong, can someone shed further light on how/why PRIME does/does not activate AR?
My first impulse was to ignore your post, as I do not respond to such rude comments. That is not my style, and never will be. Yet, I could not resist to remind you that you were the first to get yourself trapped in the relationship between "androgen and cortisol receptors", even though androgen receptors, according to your subsequent statement were not mentioned in the study.


A very evasive and murky answer. First you ask about the relationship between glucocorticoids and androgens, as if there was a one-to-one correlation between these two...
I deliberately asked that question because I suspected you did not understand what you wrote. Your response confirmed it.

By the way, correlations can go either way, even one-to-one correlations.

DOES THIS FU@KIN PRODUCT BIND TO THE AR???
I do not know about any "fu@king" product. PRIME certainly isn't one.

Instead of simply stating "we do not know for sure because the only product we looked at analyzed the relationship to the g.corticoid activity" you speak with a terrible attitude and throw out circumstantial evidence that by no means provides a satisfactory answer to my question and then finish by saying: "answering not only your first question, but your question (4) as well."
Do you read what you write before posting?

... WHAT??????? Are you drunk man? Are you saying that any substance on earth that does not not act via glucocorticoid antagonism has no hormonal activity in the body. Are you aware that there are numerous other hormones in the body in addition to glucocorticoids?
If you read the earlier link I suggested and if you read my earlier post, and understood both, you would not resort to insults.

So someone a little more straightforward, from the company or otherwise, please chime in here. This person is a pain in the neck to deal with.
Thank you.

PS: Funny, I only had one single question. So "answering not only your first question, but your question (4) as well." shows an inability to distinguish between your and my questions even. I copied and pasted your question, which you ended up thinking was mine. Hahahahaha.... ridiculous.
You admitted you did not know the relationship between androgen and cortisol receptors, and asked me for elaboration. Hence, it was ultimately your question!

To summarize, I do not think my posts were anything but neutral. Your condescending and insulting response was unjustifiable. As a consequence, I am going to leave you a negative reputation comment. My first ever!
 

Sub7

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A whole bunch of nothing with absolutely no new input whatsoever.

I know you really do not wish to answer this question, but let me ask one more time.

DOES PRIME BIND TO THE ANDROGEN RECEPTOR AND WHY?
(my question is not "does it impact hormone levels in the body", so do not evade by answering a made-up question. Please answer the question above)

Sub7

PS: "I am going to leave you a negative reputation comment". And you thought I would care about that? HAHAAHAHAAAA... crazy...
 
strategicmove

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A whole bunch of nothing with absolutely no new input whatsoever.

I know you really do not wish to answer this question, but let me ask one more time.

DOES PRIME BIND TO THE ANDROGEN RECEPTOR AND WHY?
(my question is not "does it impact hormone levels in the body", so do not evade by answering a made-up question. Please answer the question above)

Sub7

PS: "I am going to leave you a negative reputation comment". And you thought I would care about that? HAHAAHAHAAAA... crazy...
One last response to your post. So as to avoid writing what you refer to as "a bunch of nothing", I will cast my response as a brief question:

If it has been established that PRIME does not boost testosterone levels, how can it bind to (and activate) androgen receptors?

You do not necessarily have to answer this question, but at least you get my "bunch of nothing"!

By the way, I am glad you did not care about the negative reps. Makes me feel better! :D

Wish you a pleasant day!
 

Sub7

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"If it has been established that PRIME does not boost testosterone levels, how can it bind to (and activate) androgen receptors?"

You really must be joking, right? So substances that do not increase testosterone levels do not bind to and activate androgen receptors? Are you even serious in making this statement? Dianabol does not increase testosterone levels -obviously it decreases them- yet binds to androgen receptors.

How could PRIME bind to androgen receptors without actually increasing testosterone levels in the body? Simple, by binding to them directly.

Furthermore, it has not been established that PRIME does not impact testosterone levels in the body. The study has only looked at glucocorticoid receptors. It is very possible to impact testosterone levels in the body without showing any activity at the g.corticoid level. HcG does not impact glucocorticoids directly but would increase testosterone for example.

Someone else from USP LABS would serve the company well by stepping into this discussion and rescuing your company from this person's hands. Your reputation is really going down the drain. This is getting truly ridiculous.
 
freezito

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One question bro? Have u tried Prime or you just a hater? I dont know the ins and outs and all the technical mumbo jumbo, but what I do know is it works. If you dont want to use prime, then go to the forums and talk about the products you use. Prime is tried and proven, go hate somewhere else

And u state Usplabs reputation is going down the drain? Have you followed this board and other boards? Usplabs is at a alltime high buddy, you better go see the head doctor because your dillusional!
 

Sub7

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bump to the top

anyone with a shred of knowledge about endocrinology can see that the answers provided to my original question are flat-out wrong, so I ask the company for a better answer
 
freezito

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There's a diffrence between wanting answers and picking a fight! Ur not getting answers because no one feels like arguing with. U already have shown ur not capable of handling a debate. What u have shown is a strong dislike for usplabs and ur ability to slander their name. Do a search I believe there is a study on prime
 

Sub7

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Freezit,

I know you do not understand the "technical mumbo-jumbo" and unfortunately this is precisely what we are discussing here. If you like, I can try to open up another thread where you can discuss "results from PRIME" without any technical talk so you can follow what is being discussed. Would you be interested int hat?

You say there is a study that I should search for, but you failed to realize that we are talking exactly about that study. It is right here in this very thread, so why should anyone need to search for that? Did you even read what we have been saying to each other? I have read the study and am questioning how it is relevant. So if you do not have any comments that are relevant to this thread let me know and I will make another thread for you. Or if you wish to contribute to this thread maybe you can ask a friend who understands the technicalities discussed here and he can help you post?

Thanks a lot and god bless you.
 

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"If it has been established that PRIME does not boost testosterone levels, how can it bind to (and activate) androgen receptors?"

You really must be joking, right? So substances that do not increase testosterone levels do not bind to and activate androgen receptors? Are you even serious in making this statement? Dianabol does not increase testosterone levels -obviously it decreases them- yet binds to androgen receptors.

How could PRIME bind to androgen receptors without actually increasing testosterone levels in the body? Simple, by binding to them directly.

Furthermore, it has not been established that PRIME does not impact testosterone levels in the body. The study has only looked at glucocorticoid receptors. It is very possible to impact testosterone levels in the body without showing any activity at the g.corticoid level. HcG does not impact glucocorticoids directly but would increase testosterone for example.

Someone else from USP LABS would serve the company well by stepping into this discussion and rescuing your company from this person's hands. Your reputation is really going down the drain. This is getting truly ridiculous.

It does not increase testosterone because it does not increase testosterone verified by 20 blood test on human subjects before released.

We ran two Clinical and 3 test overall.

1. Clinical one showed it did not bind to the androgen receptor
2. Clinical two was on glucocorticoids.
3. Over 20 blood test confirming no significant change in Free test, total test, and LH.


Please name another supplement that a company has vested this much research. You should probably appreciate our efforts but in this industry, hate is the common path of choice.

Wish you the best sir.
 

Sub7

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1. Clinical one showed it did not bind to the androgen receptor
2. Clinical two was on glucocorticoids.
3. Over 20 blood test confirming no significant change in Free test, total test, and LH.
Can you please provide a link where I can read "Clinical One"?

Thank you
 
freezito

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if your so interested sub7, why all the hate? you wont answers, u want documents, u want links, but you go and bash the company and their reps in the same breath. Treat people with respect and they will treat u with respect
 

Sub7

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Free zit,

I did not ask you for anything, so it matters not if you would give me or not; you do not have anything to give me anyways.
 

wolfe14

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Free zit,

I did not ask you for anything, so it matters not if you would give me or not; you do not have anything to give me anyways.
Dude....I'm going to be very polite in saying Thank you for highjacking my thread and turning this into a VERY NEGATIVE B*tch FEST!!!

Now Get The F*CK OFF and start your own thread! Nobody wants to hear your b*tching! Sounds as if you need a tampon more than the answers that you are seeking..

Thank you in advance!
 

Sub7

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My question stands,

I would much appreciate if USP Labs people can provide a link where we can read how and why PRIME does not bind to androgen receptors. Afterwards, I will address the other issues brought up Wolfe..

I am merely asking to read the study, and doing so very respectfully as you can see. The company just said " Clinical one showed it did not bind to the androgen receptor " so I merely wish to know where that study can be accessed.

Thanks again...
 

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Freezit,

I know you do not understand the "technical mumbo-jumbo" and unfortunately this is precisely what we are discussing here. If you like, I can try to open up another thread where you can discuss "results from PRIME" without any technical talk so you can follow what is being discussed. Would you be interested int hat?

You say there is a study that I should search for, but you failed to realize that we are talking exactly about that study. It is right here in this very thread, so why should anyone need to search for that? Did you even read what we have been saying to each other? I have read the study and am questioning how it is relevant. So if you do not have any comments that are relevant to this thread let me know and I will make another thread for you. Or if you wish to contribute to this thread maybe you can ask a friend who understands the technicalities discussed here and he can help you post?

Thanks a lot and god bless you.
So much Irony on the way you conduct yourself and ending with "god bless you."

People hide their evil nature(hatred, whatever you like to call it) and justify it with religion...it is disgusting and arrogant behavior.

Casey will be posting the study soon.
 

Sub7

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So much Irony on the way you conduct yourself and ending with "god bless you."

People hide their evil nature(hatred, whatever you like to call it) and justify it with religion...it is disgusting and arrogant behavior.

Casey will be posting the study soon.
Are you such an idiot that you were unable to get the sarcasm in the ending of my message making reference to religion?

Your behavior of calling a message that has nothing to do with you and does not interest you in any way possible "disgusting and arrogant" is idiotic. Calling someone names who has not interacted with you in any way other than merely asking for a study -which is all the interaction I had with you- is just beyond ridiculous.

I am reading the study right now and may God Bless you.
 

Sub7

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Am I missing something here? he study that USP Labs just posted reaches this conclusion:

"without knowledge of the molecular weight of this compound and, hence, not knowing the respective Molar concentrations of these doses, it is difficult to assess the physiological relevance of these doses as agonists of hAR."

?????

The study says that it is difficult assess the physiological relevance of these doses as agonists of hAR and you guys say "Clinical one showed it did not bind to the androgen receptor".
No, this is not what the authors of this study concluded at all.
 

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Are you such an idiot that you were unable to get the sarcasm in the ending of my message making reference to religion?

Your behavior of calling a message that has nothing to do with you and does not interest you in any way possible "disgusting and arrogant" is idiotic. Calling someone names who has not interacted with you in any way other than merely asking for a study -which is all the interaction I had with you- is just beyond ridiculous.

I am reading the study right now and may God Bless you.

Thought you couldn't dig a deeper hole in lousy character. I was wrong.
 

Sub7

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Thought you couldn't dig a deeper hole in lousy character. I was wrong.
Answer the question I raised about your study please.

Your comments posted on this thread contradict the authors' own conclusions at the end of the PDF you posted.
 

Guest

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Answer the question I raised about your study please.

Your comments posted on this thread contradict the authors' own conclusions at the end of the PDF you posted.
Both extracts showed very low, or what was stated to be "faint" AR agonism activity by the researchers. This can be seen by simply looking at the data instead of just scrolling down to the read the conclusions. One should always read the study from the methods on down before drawing their own conclusions, instead of simply relying upon what the researcher concluded.

There was a communication error and the researchers thought that we were submitting single, purified compounds when were were sending extracts. This is why the report mentions that because of the unknown MW of compounds (again, they were not compounds, but rather, extracts) 1 and 2 were unknown, it is not possible to give any definitive statement about their molecular potencies as AR agonists relative to the DHT. Because they were assuming this was an isolated compound with unknown molecular weight, there could have been any number of individual molecules, which is the reason for the comment.

Anyhow, when looking at the data, it is rather simple. From the attached graph, the highest doses tested for each compound (4.45 uGm in 500 ul media) showed normalized RLU values of approximately 0.9. Compare that to data presented in Figure 4.2.2 of the report and you'll see that 0.9 RLU corresponds to a concentration of DHT that is somewhat higher than that of the third data point (= 0.908 pg DHT in 500 ul media), which is at the very beginning of the functional agonist dose for DHT. Consequently, one can in effect say that 4.45 ug/500 ul of Extracts 1 & 2 have AR agonist activities that are roughly equivalent to 0.9 pg/500 ul of DHT. This is almost a 5 million-fold difference between these two mass concentrations. When one considers the error in the writeup, it is highly unlikely that there is any significant androgenic activity to the extract.
 

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This sounds like a good analysis but I will need to show some of what is in the report to a geneticist friend of mine who does similar research. I am not enough of an expert to understand the entirety of the attached study without his help.

And if I recall correctly you had earlier said that we do not yet know what pathway PRIME acts through, is that still the case? I am asking because if it does not bind to AR then one wonders what the mechanism of action is. If, as was the case previously, this is still unknown, I do not think there is any problem with that. Many substances, including some prescription drugs have unidentified "moa"s.
 

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This sounds like a good analysis but I will need to show some of what is in the report to a geneticist friend of mine who does similar research. I am not enough of an expert to understand the entirety of the attached study without his help.

And if I recall correctly you had earlier said that we do not yet know what pathway PRIME acts through, is that still the case? I am asking because if it does not bind to AR then one wonders what the mechanism of action is. If, as was the case previously, this is still unknown, I do not think there is any problem with that. Many substances, including some prescription drugs have unidentified "moa"s.
MOA is unknown at this point.

We have a more elaborate test on protein synthesis that we are exploring but the cost is well over 100k..
 

Sub7

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OK, this answers the question and should have been the answer given right at the beginning instead of the almost entirely irrelevant glucocorticoid research.

I guess I have addressed everyone here and there is nothing else for me to do in this unproductive thread.

Oh hold on, I didn't answer Wolfe14, did I?

Dude....I'm going to be very polite in saying Thank you for highjacking my thread and turning this into a VERY NEGATIVE B*tch FEST!!!

Now Get The F*CK OFF and start your own thread! Nobody wants to hear your b*tching! Sounds as if you need a tampon more than the answers that you are seeking..

Thank you in advance!
Listen dumb@ss. Having started a thread does not make it yours and on an open forum anyone can ask anything they like on any thread. Unless you are a moderator, which you are not, you can go and fu@k yourself bit@h, which is precisely what I suggest you do.

Take care gentlemen and don't bother answering as I won't check this thread anymore.

May God Bless Every Single One of You...
 

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OK, this answers the question and should have been the answer given right at the beginning instead of the almost entirely irrelevant glucocorticoid research.

I guess I have addressed everyone here and there is nothing else for me to do in this unproductive thread.

Oh hold on, I didn't answer Wolfe14, did I?



Listen dumb@ss. Having started a thread does not make it yours and on an open forum anyone can ask anything they like on any thread. Unless you are a moderator, which you are not, you can go and fu@k yourself bit@h, which is precisely what I suggest you do.

Take care gentlemen and don't bother answering as I won't check this thread anymore.

May God Bless Every Single One of You...
wow, what a loser.
 

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Lol.... I bet he's small
He definitely checked the thread again. You cannot get schooled on this level and leave with all your dignity. You have to comeback and try to recover a smidgin of it....just a smidgin sub7 just a smidgin.
 

wolfe14

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I bet he has no friends in life and SUCKS at Living!
 

Xpballer

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He definitely checked the thread again. You cannot get schooled on this level and leave with all your dignity. You have to comeback and try to recover a smidgin of it....just a smidgin sub7 just a smidgin.
You know he got owned though.....










(poke, poke)
 

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