ATP Transdermal

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    ATP Transdermal


    If it's possible to localize delivery then an ATP Transdermal would be unbelievably beneficial just think of the workouts. Even if it goes straight into the bloodstream the benefits would be great.

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    Originally posted by DreamWeaver
    If it's possible to localize delivery then an ATP Transdermal would be unbelievably beneficial just think of the workouts. Even if it goes straight into the bloodstream the benefits would be great.
    Yeah...thats cool and everything...but where do you get the ATP in bulk form???

     

    LG.
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    Oh I may be able to help out there I have some sources for raw product.
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    Originally posted by DreamWeaver
    Oh I may be able to help out there I have some sources for raw product.
     

    Raw ATP????....damn thats cool....

    PM me with this source you speak of...

     

    LG.
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    are there any studies to show that ATP can be supplemented?

    I think that there are several problems:

    1. blood levels of ATP will not correlate to muscle ATP, how will it be transported across the muscle cell membrane which is impermeable to ATP?

    2. high blood levels may screw up other processes. If they somehow could get to muscles, they could also get to adipose!

    3. this point makes the other two a moot point, a muscle's ATP levels are dictated by Creatine Phosphate (CP) stores. The muscle cells have much more CP than ATP and the amount of ATP is pretty constant until CP runs out as ATP is replenished extremely fast. This works for about 15 seconds and during rest, the process is reversed and CP is replenished. So it seems that one would be better off supplementing with creatine as this is the limiting factor (except for the few who have maximal levels naturally - nonresponders).

    PS I could be wrong, but my info is pretty up to date and this is a well known and understood process.

    PPS I welcome any questions or discussion, don't hesitate to respond/ask

    sources:
    Anatomy & Physiology Elaine N. Marieb 2002 Benjamin Cummings
    any other decent anatomy textbook will have the same info

    cheers, pete
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    Yup, from everything I've read, creatine monohydrate is the closest you can get to supplementing with adenosine triphosphate.  It's just one step away (ATP -> ADP+P and some energy, then picks up another P from the creatine to become ATP again) Now, trisodium phosphate is another matter, you can get that in industrial floor cleaner and General Mills kids' cereals.  But I don't think that has any recognized performance enhancing attributes.
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    Actually a friend had a product (oral) that worked about twice as good as creatine. I am also told that some pros inject it. I am not up on the science (I just train) but the energy boost from oral ATP was very good and it was used extensively by some pretty notable power lifters.
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    i don't know about the atp supplements, I do know that AMP supplementation can lead to increased ATP production, but this is not as applicable to healthy people as much as those with deficiencies. the ATP concentrations in all cells can only be so high. in different cells with different energy needs, there are many different mechanisms to regenerate ATP as needed. ATP cannot cross the cell membrane at a high enough rate to have an obvious effect. AMP supplementation works through either correcting deficiencies caused by poor diet or of a genetic origin, or through another pathway.

    the ATP products on the market usually do not contain ATP, but things that increase glycogen storage, which can lead to faster ATP replenishment through either the lactic acid pathway or through complete breakdown of glucose. this may be of use to those on keto diets, but not really to those eating a balanced diet with good carbs.

    if anyone has references on any studies, please post, thanks, pete

    PS bro do you really think pros need ATP when some use several grams of steroids, 10000+ IU of GH, IGF1, insulin, etc every week
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    Well I know some natural guys who use it ( the pros using it was just hearsay). One of the naturals I supplied has 30 years experience and he loved it. The benefits were quite obvious, better workouts increased apetite. My friend who was making it can't afford to keep on producing it and I have people bothering me for more and I can't get any more. I have brought up the idea of a trasdermal with the original people and thought you guys might be able to give me a hand. As far as the scientific stuff well I put more stock in experienced lifters than I do in science. I have a demand that needs to be met so I am trying to figure out a solution.
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    i remember a product by alternative nutrition that sounds similar to what you mentioned. it was great, first time it gave me actual results, second time it didn't, but i also noticed that the bottles i order from ************ had gone old (i was out of the country by then, so couldn't return). in any case, i just checked and alternative nutrition had almost no products left with dps. maybe they've gone under. shame, it was a good company.

    i think it was called ATP Mass.

    -5
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    actually, does anyone remeber what exactly was in ATP mass?

    i think it was 200 mg of ATP or some ATP like chemical, right?

    anything else?

    -5
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    Yah that's Jims company, that was a good product.
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    would it be possible to homebrew ATP Mass?

    DreamWeaver, do you know what exactly was in a cap of that stuff?

    Also, the transdermal idea is interesting, but it might not work as well as the oral, since no one really seemed to know why it worked in the first place. it made you hungrier and maybe stronger (or maybe that was just because of the increased food intake), but people didn't gain as much fat as they usually did when eating an equivalent amount...

    -5
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    The reason why it worked is pretty simple in my mind. It gave you better workouts, hence you got hungrier and became more anabolic. Yah there were benefits like very little fat gain for massive consumption.

    The other ingredients were present just to help the ATP make it past the digestive system without being destroyed. The bottom line is will ATP itself absorb through skin. According to Jim there are pros who inject it.
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    I found the ingredients and a write up for ATP MASS.

    ATP Mass - A Dietary Supplement
    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size 1 capsule
    Servings per container - 70


    Amount per Serving % Day Value
    ATP IAdenosine-5 - Triphosphate Disodium Salt 200 mgs -
    Grapefruit Extract (Citrus paradis) (dried whole fruit) 100 mgs -
    Lecithin (from soybean powder) 100 mgs -
    Alpha-Zein (from com protein) 100 mgs -
    Magnesium (from magnesium oxide) 15 mgs

     

     

    ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate): 200mg
    ATP is an energy-storage molecule made in our bodies that serves as an immediate energy source for all energy-requiring cells, especially muscle cells. Composed of three phosphorus atoms, ATP is the fuel that is burned to release energy during physical activity. However, because ATP stores are depleted quickly, muscle glycogen is broken down to produce more ATP. That's why many bodybuilding experts feel that supplementing with ATP is extremely helpful in reducing glycogen break-down and promoting increased strength and muscle-mass gains. By adding ATP supplementation to your training program, along with proper protein and fluid intake, you will see and feel amazing results.


    Magnesium: 15mg
    Magnesium is an essential cofactor in hundreds of enzymatic reactions in the body. Magnesium is required for protein synthesis, manufacturing of DNA, fatty acid synthesis, anaerobic breakdown of glucose, removal of toxic substances from the body, maintaining healthy bone tissue and much more. Most importantly for bodybuilders, all enzymatic reactions with ATP require magnesium.


    Grapefruit Extract: 100mg
    There are substances known as CYP3A4 enzymes in the small intestine that break down various drugs and chemicals after they are ingested. When broken down, the efficacy of these chemicals is greatly reduced. Subsequently, researchers have been searching for a way to inactivate these drug-destroying enzymes to improve the absorption and subsequent potency of medications.
    It was discovered that individuals who took various prescription drugs along with grapefruit juice appeared to obtain enhanced results from their medication. It was eventually found that grapefruit extract contains a substance called 6,7-dihydroxybergamottin or DHB. DHB belongs to a class of substances called furanocoumarins. Studies have shown that when people consumed furanocoumarins with prescription medications, the medications can became more potent over just a week's time. Furanocoumarins appear to work by either inactivating or inhibiting the CYP3A4 enzymes. In other words, the enzymes are destroyed before they can wipe out beneficial drugs and other important substances. Thus, more of the medication can absorb into the intestinal lining to perform its desired function(s).
    To enhance the absorption of the ATP molecule, grapefruit extract has been added to our unique formula to that you can achieve awesome results.


    Lecithin: 100mg

    Not only does this contain beneficial phospholipids for liver and cardiovascular health, but lecithin also acts as a bioevailability agent to enhance absorption and utilization of ATP.


    Zein: 100mg

    To further maximize benefits ATP, a revolutionary natural ingredient called Zein, derived from corn protein, has been added to our formula. Zein forms a protective barrier around the active ingredients, works as a suspension and time releasing agent. The matrix of this formula has been specifically designed to release the ATP in the body at the precise time needed for optimum absorption and utilization by the body. Plus, Zein has high resistance to stomach acid, though it is still able to be digested by intestinal enzymes. This feature further helps improve effectiveness and results. It is also important to note that Zein's effectiveness greatly depends on the quality of the form used. Unlike some other companies, we use only a high quality, pharmaceutical grade alpha Zein for maximum effectiveness. Commonly used as a time releasing agent by pharmaceutical companies, 98% pure alpha Zein is more potent than gamma and beta forms, which are used primarily as coating agents.
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    Yah that was a good product but he didn't have the marketing behind it to make it more popular.
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    good info on the product mega... does anyone know whether:

    1. a similar product to ATP mass exists?

    2. ATP IAdenosine-5 - Triphosphate Disodium Salt would absorb through the skin in t-gel like formula?

    3. where to buy ATP IAdenosine-5 - Triphosphate Disodium Salt?

    thanks.

    -5
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    I don't think a similar product exists there was on other ATP product put out by AST or somebody but he product was crap.

    I don't know if it will absorb well through the skin that's why I started the post.

    I know the person who tried to market the original product and could find out from him where to get it.
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    Originally posted by crazypete
    are there any studies to show that ATP can be supplemented?

    I think that there are several problems:

    1. blood levels of ATP will not correlate to muscle ATP, how will it be transported across the muscle cell membrane which is impermeable to ATP?

    ATP does not enter cells on the same transient "grade" as other things. it utilizes glucose to get there. other cellular processes also require energy like this so i figure this is how ATP would reach cells.
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    Originally posted by DreamWeaver
    Actually a friend had a product (oral) that worked about twice as good as creatine. I am also told that some pros inject it. I am not up on the science (I just train) but the energy boost from oral ATP was very good and it was used extensively by some pretty notable power lifters.
    was this "syntheselen" that your buddy used? i found it the other day. looks interesting. they sell it as an oral but it is actually made to inject.
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    No it was the ATP Mass
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    has anyone used here syntheselen? check it out and tell me what you all think please.http://www.synthetek.com/Products/Sy...ntheselen.html
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    Interresting I will get back to you on this one.
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    bdc, maybe you should get some ATP, homebrew a formula similar to ATP Mass, and see if it work. if it does then you could start selling that stuff.

    back in the day, the product received a lot of positive feedback. out of 20 replies, aproxiamtely 19 were good, 1 bad. they existed on the old bb.com, but when they reformated the forum layout & everything, all those threads were lost.

    -5
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    It was a good product for sure.
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