How much DMSO to add to Androgel?

[pjmc]

Hey Guys, I'm a newbie here...

Quick question to anyone who knows or has experience with this. My doc currently has me on 2 5gram packets of Androgel daily, 1 to apply in the morning and 1 for the evening. The part that sucks is, the absorption rate of Androgel is only about 1% which leaves approximately 5 mgs of T absorbed into the skin AT BEST, and this is on top of the fact that a lot of guys don't absorb the gel properly into their system.. including moi :sad:

I was reading over the boards and decided to try adding a bit of DMSO to each daily application, as I heard this can severely jack up the amount of T in the gel you absorb.. The part I'm stuck at his how much DMSO to mix in with 5 grams of Androgel. At most, I would like to atleast double/triple the amount of T which can be absorbed from the Androgel.

Any help would be appreciated..

BTW, the part I forgot to mention is I purchased an 8oz bottle of Pure DMSO 99.9%..

Thanks guys

 

[Rostam]

If the medication has been prescribed by your physician, stick to what he said and don't mess it up with DMSO. If you asked your doctor to prescribe androgel in hope to increase your BB performances and your weight gain, I don't think androgel is the road to go.
Furthermore I doubt the absorption of androgel be only 1%.
What's the concentration of the androgel?

 

[pjmc]

What do you mean by concentration?

My Androgel box says:

testosterone USP 1% gel, each packet is 5.0 grams, which means 5 mgs is absorbed, I've read this off the information sheet and the ACTUAL BOX. So I'm 100% sure of what I'm talking about.

My problem with Androgel is that I don't absorb it very well and it's not getting my T up high enough to an 'optimal' level.

Has anyone ever used DMSO with this before?

 

[Rostam]

So the concentration of your gel is 1% which means you have 50mg of T in 5gr of gel. It doesn't mean the absorption rate is only 1%.

And how do you know you don't absorbe it well? Did you do blood works?

I don't think adding DMSO to androgel is a good idea specialy if it was prescribed by your physician for a specific reason.

 

[pjmc]

My bad, I must've mixed up what the concentration and absorption rate meant, however I was right about 5mgs being delivered, check it out:

This is from http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/androgel_ids.htm

"The recommended starting dose of AndroGel® 1% is 5 g delivering 5 mg of testosterone systemically, applied once daily (preferably in the morning) to clean, dry, intact skin of the shoulders and upper arms and/or abdomen."

http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2003/03SEP_PI/AndroGel_PI.pdf

"Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin

surface from AndroGel​

® is absorbed into systemic circulation. Therefore, 5 G and 10 G​

of AndroGel​

® systemically delivers approximately 5 mg and 10 mg of testosterone, respectively."​

 

[pjmc]

Yeah, me and my doc checked my Free T and Total T and both came up in the low end of 'normal'.

He said I should give the gel more time to work cuz it'll 'take more time to kick-in'

bah :sad:

 

[Parteeman]

Rub the Androgel on your nuts. It increases the absorption rate to about 50%, so that out of a 5gm packet with 50 miligrams of test, you will absorb 25 mg. Do two of those daily on your nuts, and your getting 50 mg/qd or 350mg/week, which should elevate your test levels at least to the uppermost range of normal.

 

[goes4ever]

I would add a few drops of dmso before rubbing it on your nuts...........remember if you rub it on your nuts it is gonna BURN!........my training partner is on androgel, and tried it...lol

 

[pjmc]

What's goin on bros.. thanks for the replies.

I'll try rubbing the gel onto my nuts this time, that sounded strange.. rofl
When you say add a 'few drops of dmso' to each gel application, how many are we talking here? And this is of the DMSO 99.9% solution correct? I'm still not sure how to calculate the absorption rate once DMSO is added

 

[goes4ever]

from their website:

Apply AndroGel once daily in the morning to clean, dry skin. Empty the entire contents of the package into a clean hand and apply to the shoulders and upper arms and/or the abdomen. Wash hands thoroughly with soap and water. Allow the application site to dry before dressing, then be sure to cover the treated area with clothing. Avoid bathing, showering, or swimming for 5 to 6 hours after application. Do not apply AndroGel to the genitals.

do a search on here about androgel and dmso, I think someone talked about using several drops per packet to help absorbtion into skin

 

[goes4ever]

read this
http://youngagainproducts.com/articles/DMSO Instead of Hypodermic Needles.htm

 

[Parteeman]

I know that the Androgel info says not to run it on your nuts. That's precisely because it dramatically increases the absorption rate. If you're trying to get more out of the Androgel, increasing the absorption rate is not a bad thing. Scrotal skin is much thinner than other skin, thus causing much better absorption. Aside from a bit of burning, it's not going to hurt you any more than a shot of the equivalent mg of prop would.

 

[Beau]

I saw your avatar and just about threw up in my mouth. What the heck ......

 

[triceptor]

Rub the Androgel on your nuts. It increases the absorption rate to about 50%, so that out of a 5gm packet with 50 miligrams of test, you will absorb 25 mg. Do two of those daily on your nuts, and your getting 50 mg/qd or 350mg/week, which should elevate your test levels at least to the uppermost range of normal.

this is an extremely bad idea. there is a very high amounf of 5 Alpha Reductase in the scrotum and thus a very high conversion to DHT... not to mention just inches away from the prostate.

 

[triceptor]

there are much better choice than DMSO for penetration enhancement. Not that DMSO doesn't work, it does. But with a terrible ordor exuded from your body and the possibility of severe skin irritation.

you could use d-limonene as a penetration enhancer. Also if you go the route of DMSO dilute it to 75% and that will make it penetrate better. Use distilled water to dilute it. DMSO works by disrupting water in the startum corneum which allows for drugs to pass through. If your skin is dry - especislly from using a hydroalcoholic gel like Androgel, this will ensure better penetration.

Also Androgel has a manufacturer stated delivery rate of ~10%...

 

[triceptor]

I saw your avatar and just about threw up in my mouth. What the heck ......

that's gotta be a female BB.. andro-clit. looks like a little penis...

 

[Beau]

Boy - I guess. That might be a bit startling without advance warning. Holy cow.

 

[Parteeman]

Good point on the DHT conversion, but it has never proven to be a problem for me. If you're prone to male pattern baldness, could be a problem.

Yeah, I think it's a female BB whose clit is engorged from testosterone use.

 

[jcam222]

there are much better choice than DMSO for penetration enhancement. Not that DMSO doesn't work, it does. But with a terrible ordor exuded from your body and the possibility of severe skin irritation.

you could use d-limonene as a penetration enhancer. Also if you go the route of DMSO dilute it to 75% and that will make it penetrate better. Use distilled water to dilute it. DMSO works by disrupting water in the startum corneum which allows for drugs to pass through. If your skin is dry - especislly from using a hydroalcoholic gel like Androgel, this will ensure better penetration.

Also Androgel has a manufacturer stated delivery rate of ~10%...

How would you use the d-limonene with the androgel? I am on HRT and very intersted in this concept.

 

[1.5 Calf]

Not sure why you would mix the DMSO with the Androgel. Up to you, but I always hated the damn garlic taste. Take it for an old finnaplex mixing nut. If you are getting it from you Dr. and test levels are low maybe you need and HRT Dr. There are several options. Injectable test or even implanted pellets. I loved them but do cause a little bruising if you are prone to it. You might want to ask him.

 

[chocko]

d-limonene + androgel?

Bump. Can someone clarify? I.e. how much to add and what would be the expected result in % absorbed?

How would you use the d-limonene with the androgel? I am on HRT and very intersted in this concept.

 

[triceptor]

Bump. Can someone clarify? I.e. how much to add and what would be the expected result in % absorbed?

it's hard to know for sure unless you've experimented with it. You may want to begin with ~2% and see how it efefcts the gels viscosity. be sure it doesn't cause seperation. I have experience only with PhloJel Ultra in this area.. you will have to experiment a bit to find the best %

 

[chocko]

Sources for D-Limonene?

Ok, even if I wanted to experiment with D-Limonene, I can't find any online suppliers. Anyone know of a supplier that CURRENTLY has D-Limonene? I don't really want to order a 10 gallon drum from an industrial supplier... (edit!)

 

[chocko]

Is replying to myself like talking to myself? Anyways, I found it on ebay... Chemistry Connection sells it and they told me they would post a listing for a 8 oz bottle just for moi They have good feedbacks so they look cool. Search for "Limonene" if ur interested.

Ok, even if I wanted to experiment with D-Limonene, I can't find any online suppliers. Anyone know of a supplier that CURRENTLY has D-Limonene? I don't really want to order a 10 gallon drum from an industrial supplier... (edit!)

 

[jcam222]

it's hard to know for sure unless you've experimented with it. You may want to begin with ~2% and see how it efefcts the gels viscosity. be sure it doesn't cause seperation. I have experience only with PhloJel Ultra in this area.. you will have to experiment a bit to find the best %

Do yoiu suppose a good starting point would be a couple drops of limonene for one packet of androgel

 

[triceptor]

Do yoiu suppose a good starting point would be a couple drops of limonene for one packet of androgel

it depends upon how big the drops are and how much androgel you start out with. I've never worked with androgel, but I recall people refering to dosing in weight instead of volume - 1G of androgel -vs- 1ML of androgel. Is the ratio 1G = ~1ML?

With PhloJel Ultra 1G = 1.01Ml, so if you wanted to add d-limonene to PhloJel Ultra at a concentration of 2% you would add 2ML of d-limonene for every 100G/ML of PhloJel Ultra... get the idea... you'll need to know the volume to weight ratio of androgel to answer the Q properly

 

[jcam222]

It looks like 5gms is roughly 3ml. Thats a rough estimate as the stuff was hard to load in a pin from the pump. I am going to try .6 ml of d-limonene for a few days to see if I notice a difference.

As a secondary idea and maybe completelty stupid but Im a novice at this......what if you apply the androgel. Allow it to dry and form its reservoir and then follow with an application of d-limonene . Would that do anythi8ng?

 

[chocko]

I would think that the penetration enhancing effect would be greatest when the gel is a solution before the alcohol has dried.

It looks like 5gms is roughly 3ml. Thats a rough estimate as the stuff was hard to load in a pin from the pump. I am going to try .6 ml of d-limonene for a few days to see if I notice a difference.

As a secondary idea and maybe completelty stupid but Im a novice at this......what if you apply the androgel. Allow it to dry and form its reservoir and then follow with an application of d-limonene . Would that do anythi8ng?

 

[Rafec]

how about using rubbing acohol before androlgel?

 

[centeroiler]

Androgel already has alcohol in it. No use. Pre-apply DMSO.

how about using rubbing acohol before androlgel?

 

[living2die]

Would using DMSO as a penetration enhancer for a homebrew TD formula risk increasing the absorption of the various types of alcohols and other nasty chemicals used in the transdermal formula ?

I am referring to basskiller's transdermal recipe, which calls for Iso Alcohol, Isopropyl Myristate, and other toxic chemicals.

Reason I ask, for awhile I was applying large doses of my TDS, (upwards of 15mL) and noted that I felt a bit like I had some type of cognitive decline, that I would suffer after prolonged periods of applying these large fifteen mL doses.

Also, it is easy to find medical literature that examine cases where individuals suffer toxic exposure and neurological deficits when exposed to large doses of Iso Alcohol for prolonged periods.

Any help would be great !

 

[bomb402]

The problem here is you are using Androgel. Androgel is the biggest crock of **** I have ever heard of. 400$ a month for a 1% testosterone smelly gel that is harder to rub in than cream and jacks up your estrogen levels and doesn't end up doing **** for your T levels. Do some research and switch. Not to mention that the Androgel salesgirls are in every doctor's office which is why all the doctors push that product over a 40$ better alternative so hard. They all know that they will eventually put you on shots of cypionate since they don't want to let the cat out of the bag that androgel is 10 times more expensive than something that works far better. To the guy above me, stop thinking about playing chemist and switch.

 

[delariva]

Would using DMSO as a penetration enhancer for a homebrew TD formula risk increasing the absorption of the various types of alcohols and other nasty chemicals used in the transdermal formula ?

I am referring to basskiller's transdermal recipe, which calls for Iso Alcohol, Isopropyl Myristate, and other toxic chemicals.

Reason I ask, for awhile I was applying large doses of my TDS, (upwards of 15mL) and noted that I felt a bit like I had some type of cognitive decline, that I would suffer after prolonged periods of applying these large fifteen mL doses.

Also, it is easy to find medical literature that examine cases where individuals suffer toxic exposure and neurological deficits when exposed to large doses of Iso Alcohol for prolonged periods.

Any help would be great !

Bump for answers.

 

[Rostam]

Bump for answers.

Yes. DMSO will enhance penetration of any inpurities you may have on your skin or in your formula.

 

[pcn]

The problem here is you are using Androgel. Androgel is the biggest crock of **** I have ever heard of. 400$ a month for a 1% testosterone smelly gel that is harder to rub in than cream and jacks up your estrogen levels and doesn't end up doing **** for your T levels. Do some research and switch. Not to mention that the Androgel salesgirls are in every doctor's office which is why all the doctors push that product over a 40$ better alternative so hard. They all know that they will eventually put you on shots of cypionate since they don't want to let the cat out of the bag that androgel is 10 times more expensive than something that works far better. To the guy above me, stop thinking about playing chemist and switch.

+1 for making the switch. I can vouch for the estrogen increase from the damn androgel. Shots are the way to go, and seem to work much better, consistant levels. Cheaper too.

 

[jrv1939]

I found a tesosterone transdermal with both DMSO and d-limonene in it after my doctor stopped writing me my script for Androgel. I wouldn't recommend rubbing it on your nuts though. You don't want to shut down your natural test production.

In my blood work my test levels are stable now above 800 now so I've just stayed on the t-gel. the site took forever to find. google androrxshop if you want a more inexpensive treatment so you can experiment. I've been using their product for a few months now. Good stuff.

But seriously, dont rub it on your nuts the DMSO in it would not feel great on your balls.

 

[grega60438]

On the nuts=Great Balls Of Fire! LOL

 

[abs322]

androgel is a nice complement to the shot, just use both...say 4-8 pumps/day of androgel 1.62 plus 100mg/wk cyp insurance should cover both