1,4 andro trans & 1-Test
- 06-20-2004, 11:35 PM
- 06-24-2004, 05:08 AM
Originally Posted by knox
......it was crystal clear, no probs.
It might be possible to add 1-test to Big 1....go to the forums at 1fast or avant....they should have the answer there. Hope that helps.
- 06-24-2004, 12:45 PM
scorpio, i really appreciate your reply. i will go ahead and try mixing the 12g into the transport matrix. i will post the results. thanks again.
06-24-2004, 05:46 PM
Why not just go oral with the 1,4 andro and save yourself the hassle of rubbing on a transdermal, and possibly recover more orally than transdermally?
06-24-2004, 06:29 PM
the rubbing will be a hassle but i want the better absorption and plus the price is cheaper.
06-24-2004, 11:20 PM
Transdermal Absortion ~40%Originally Posted by knox
Oral Availability of 1,4 andro ~45%
06-25-2004, 10:35 AM
why is the absorbtion rate of 1,4 andro different compared to other transdermals? i was always told transdermal absorbtion is higher compared to an orally taken supplement since it enters the blood stream quicker.
06-25-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by knox
Yes, your statement above is correct!
06-25-2004, 01:41 PM
methylated androgens and 1,4andro are the exceptions to the rule.
06-25-2004, 03:09 PM
So, the question is, that correct? i just cant see how it would be.Transdermal Absortion ~40%
Oral Availability of 1,4 andro ~45%
06-25-2004, 03:39 PM
can you please explain this rule to me or maybe a link where i can find this. thanks.Originally Posted by cookmic5
06-25-2004, 04:04 PM
"Generally," transdermals yield a higher absorbtion of the androgen because orally the substance is broken down by the liver before it can get into the bloodstream. However, with certain substances, i.e. methylated, the ability to bypass the liver and make it to the bloodstream is better. So, putting a methylated substance into a transdermal solution is a complete waste since the absorbtion is above 90% orally.
1,4andro is not methylated though, and it has been debated back and forth whether it is worth it to put it into a transdermal. General consensus seems to say it's best orally:
Others, however, say it can be used effectively transderamaly. Run a search, I believe a board member named DDD was an advocate of transdermal 1,4andro. The conversions posted above do seem to be consistently supported and cited... whether that makes them true I don't know.
06-25-2004, 04:16 PM
If the absorption rate is so debatable, the hassle of applying a transdermal should sway you toward oral 1,4 andro.
06-25-2004, 04:34 PM
thanks for the information cookmic5. this does make a logical reason to use the oral over the dermal. do any of you have a preference of a particular oral 1,4 andro?
06-25-2004, 04:38 PM
BTW, i already have 12g of 1,4 andro. could i make my own oral version by putting the powder in some capsules?
06-25-2004, 04:44 PM
Unless of course you are already using something else in a transdermal and can just add the 1,4andro into the solution(s).Originally Posted by Sgt. Ownage
06-25-2004, 04:49 PM
yes, you can buy a capping machine (I believe 1fast has them) and caps (I know 1fast has them) and make your own caps... I don't know how frustrating this maybe however as I've never had cause to do it.Originally Posted by knox
06-25-2004, 05:07 PM
i was going to stack 12g of 1,4 andro dermal with a Big1 w/ 6g of 1-Test added to it, 2 bottles of 1-T estergels by molecular to total around 600mg of 1-Test and 400-600mg of 1,4 andro for 40 days. i bought a transport matrix to hold the 1,4 andro. but, if i can get the 1,4 andro into some capsules then i could use the transport matrix for something else, possibly 4ad. i could see myself getting quite frustrated trying to cap my own orals. is this tho only option to take it orally?
06-25-2004, 05:16 PM
Make a solution. So much easier than capping.
06-25-2004, 10:54 PM
I agree. Mix it in a solvent and buy an oral syringe at Meijer. Solutions are way easier to deal with than making 200 caps.Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
06-26-2004, 10:28 AM
17-a methylated compounds will make the molecule more difficult to metabolize by the liver but will also stress the liver due to the fact. However, there has been much research into non-17a methylated protecting groups and several have been identified. The most widely used is the 1-ene double bond group...in our world this equates to 1-test and 1,4-andro both of which has been successfully used orally.Originally Posted by knox
IMO, it would be best to dissolve the 1,4 in whatever convenient solvent you may have (PEG-400, Glycerin, Everclear, etc) rather than capping. It is more accurate and a hell of a lot easier. Now, everyone around here knows that my company makes the T-GEL's so it would be too easy to sway you that way but the fact is it would be in your best interest as a homebrewer to just take the 1,4 orally.
Also, DDD did have a strong argument on transdermal delivery of 1,4-andro but his base was dependent on individual views of inherent activity of unconverted prohormones. In other words, do you believe that prohormones exert anabolic action in the unconverted state? I do...maybe not as much as the parent compound...but does exert some affinity to the receptor as has been demonstrated by a few studies. So, the crux of his argument was that 1,4 or any other prohormone was useless until converted and that time released delivery via transdermal was best to eliminate or reduce enzyme saturation for conversion.
06-26-2004, 11:32 AM
this process of homebrewing is all new to me. i am unfamiliar with making solutions or where to begin. if i ordered the T-gels would this solve my problem completely? or is there an easier/cheaper way of making a solution? i remember DDD stating that when taken orally the conversion happened too fast and some of the substance was wasted. but, the amount of people for the transdermal compared to oral dilevery is quite visible. any suggestions for making this solution? thanks.
06-26-2004, 12:11 PM
I would just buy some T-Gel. Dermabolics/BSL Transport Matrix are a hassle to deal with (watery, don't dissolve as fast). T-Gel dissolves fast and doesn't drip everywhere...plus I get a ton of podwer into one 4oz.Originally Posted by knox
06-26-2004, 12:34 PM
Solution's are easy. Get some PEG 400, determine what the ratio will be(mg/ml) then pour powder into PEG 400, shake, heat in a warm water bath for 30 minutes and you have your solution.Originally Posted by knox
06-26-2004, 03:54 PM
hey i appreciate everyone's help. i will look into the solution or t-gel. i still have the transport matrix that i will possibly use 4ad for a later stack. but, thanks everyone.
08-25-2004, 11:19 PM
are there any local places that i can get some peg 400 from???
Like walmart or something???? I dont feel like ordering this **** off the internet too.
also how much 14 andro can u get into a ml of solution????
09-06-2004, 09:01 AM
Since this thread was recently reopened, I thought I'd ask... Where do people come with the 45% figure shown below?
Why 45%? The reason I ask is that one manufacturer implies it's only 11%? Or maybe 45% refers to bioavailability pre-conversion, and 11% refers to what's left post-conversion.Transdermal Absortion ~40%
Oral Availability of 1,4 andro ~45%
From product label:
"That's because scientific studies show up to 11% converts to actual Boldenone. So by taking 300mg a day X 7 days (total 2,100mg a week)... an 11% conversion rate equals roughly 220mgs"
Last edited by rrgg; 09-06-2004 at 10:40 PM.
09-06-2004, 11:26 AM
if you wanted to take the powder orally couldn't you just mix Xmg's into water or juice and take it that way rather than capping?
11-02-2004, 12:51 AM
I just mixed 10 grams of 1,4 Androdione from 1Fast into a 4oz. bottle of TGel, and even after two hot water baths and shaking, it didn't fully dissolve
Quite a bit of the crystals were left on my skin, and it felt sandy.
Guess I'll have to reheat and repeat.
BTW, I am taking ~700mg. 1,4 AndroDIOL orally each day, and another 333+ mg. of 1,4DIONE each day, in hopes of getting the best of both worlds.
11-02-2004, 07:29 AM
Originally Posted by Brodus
Are you stacking it with anything? Are you capping or did you buy caps/tablets?
11-02-2004, 07:38 AM
I actually am not going to stack it with anything, except Citrulline Mallate.
Oh, and I capped the 1,4Diol.
One thing-->the 1,4 Diol is about twice as "lofty" and half as dense as the 1,4Dione. It's hard to get a lot in capsules.
The 1,4 Diol is a chalky, fluffy powder, and it sucks up moisture.
1,4DIONE is sort of crystally, and looks totally different.
I'm waiting to start this cycle until after I hear what goes down w/ the new Methyl Bulker beta testing.
11-02-2004, 08:57 AM
why did you decide to cap them and use a dermal enstead of mixing up an oral solution?
11-02-2004, 09:00 AM
I capped the 1,4 Diol b/c I am sick of swallowing nasty ****!
I've actually gotten really fast w/ my cap-m-quik, too.
The 1,4Dione is trans b/c I feel that a balanced delivery of one is a good thing.
They also covert slightly differently, which should be beneifical.
And I'll be taking 700-900 mgs. of the Diol orally, which is plenty. Add to that 300-600 transdermal 1,4DIONE, and that's a good mix, I believe.
11-02-2004, 10:07 AM
Is it possible to use a solvent on the 1,4ad-dione before mixing it into the t-gel? (I'm planning to try this in phlojel at the end of the year.)
11-02-2004, 08:49 PM
in an upcoming cycle i'm going to run 1,4 andro and dump it into an olive oil solution. can't tell you if that will taste any better then the peg since i've never tasted olive oil or peg.
11-02-2004, 09:21 PM
11-03-2004, 12:56 AM
i'm pretty sure i haven't, but if i have i don't recall what it tasted like.
11-03-2004, 03:17 AM
It's used in cooking all of the time! It tastes really good...a somewhat nutty flavor.
11-03-2004, 10:11 AM
that is good to hear. i bet i have tasted it i just didn't know what it was. you may find my sippin' on my solution all day long if it has a hint of christmas flavour.
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