Why in the world would you run suspension in a transdermal. You're wasting 150+ mg PER DOSE ! ?! !? !? !? !
Ive done some searching on TNE transdermas but I still have a few questions I'm looking to get answered. I'm planning to run 200mg TNE ED with Penetrate (possibly with DMSO added) as the carrier. Assuming 25% absorption that should leave me with around 50mg ED. Ive ran previous injectables but decided this time to experiment with something new.
I have a wife and 1yr old at home so Id really like to be as careful as I can about not getting any secondhand transfer to them. What is the typical absorption time for transdermals? Meaning that if I apply it to me calves in the morning, should I be worried about rubbing up against the old lady at night?
My other question is also along the same lines. If I was doing this in a TNE suspension, I would pin before my workouts. Is it advisable to apply a transdermal before a workout or is it better to use it after a workout? I would think the sweat might interfere with the absorption?
Thanks for any help. Ive done a few searches, but haven't found what Im looking for.
Why in the world would you run suspension in a transdermal. You're wasting 150+ mg PER DOSE ! ?! !? !? !? !
If this test goes well then my next cycle will include a transdermal as well as test suspension. Every day injections can be a pain after a few weeks but if I have an effective transdermal method I feel that I would be able to cycle between the two (3wks inject, 1wk TD).
TNE in base form is so cheap, it's basically free. I don't want to become a human pincushion, so I'd like to see how this pans out. I wonder how it would work subq?
Some research is finding it works just fine, even as enth:
Right now Ive gotten everything I need and I plan on starting it around the 10th of December so I may decide to keep an informal log here. Ill be using the test base in Phlojel Ultra at 100mg/ml and appliying it 2x ED. An hour after each application Ill be applying Penetrate with 5-10% DMSO in the same area in hopes of getting some of the residual through as well. Each application will be post shower and exfoliation and I will be rotating sites every time so that each site should only get used once every 5 days. Preworkout Ill be taking Niacin for capillary dilation hopefully to help flush out the site. Any other suggestions to increase absorption?
I'm thinking about doing blood or saliva tests pre cycle and then after the first week. I found them from ZRT for 30 bucks a pop from an online HRT site and have been thinking about it but I don't know if blood or saliva would be more accurate. Any suggestions?
I think subQ would work but it might end up being more of a hassle then IM with something like enth but with a test suspention and the frequent injections required it might work out well. Ive never had anything subQ so I don't know pain wise how it would be but I tolerate IM shots well. Depending on how this experiment goes I might be up for that next.
I was doing some more research on improving transdermal effectiveness when I came across iontophoresis. I searched for it on the site but didn't find anything. I think it would be as simple as applying the TD then covering the area with a piece of aluminum foil, applying a 12-18v with low amps and running a positive current through the application area and attaching a negative terminal somewhere else. Has anyone tried this?
My interest in subq TNE is IM TNE is reputed to hurt like the devil. I also don't like the idea of poking that many holes in my muscle tissue. I can tell you that subq GHRP/CHC-1295/IGF-1lr3 is completely painless. Then again, IM IGF-1lr3 is also completely painless. Probably the pain in TNE comes from the crystals and the BA. All this is just a sort of pipe-smoking idea though; I have no real intentions of following through with it.
I look forward to your log. I probably wouldn't go through all the trouble to get extra absorption. In my experience with TD 4AD and Tren, it's going to work pretty well if you slather enough on (TNE has lower molecular weight, so it should work even better). The main problems with TD anything is probably inconsistency in dose and worrying about it getting on other people. Are you shooting for any particular number for your applications? I was thinking shooting for 150-200mg applied each day or so would be a good number to start with. I figure if I'm getting 350mg of base a week, that's like a 500mg of test e. Probably keep it closer to the 150mg/day figure for stacking with tren @120mg/day.
Ive been doing more reading about Iontophoresis and it seems some of the sites in studies get treated for hours making it pretty impractical for me. I think Ill stick with the two carrier method and see how it all goes.
I'm reading more into the SubQ and it sounds like it could be interesting. I think Ill keep reading up on it but I should have some left over TNE and may try that next.
Next idea - microneedle dermal roller. These things are pretty cheap on ebay and from the studies on pubmed they increase the effectiveness of a transdermal considerably.
Effect of applying modes of the polymer microneedle-roller on the permeation of l-ascorbic acid in rats.
You SK, Noh YW, Park HH, Han M, Lee SS, Shin SC, Cho CW.
College of Pharmacy and Institute of Drug Research and Development, Chungnam National University, Daejeon, South Korea.
Despite the advantages of drug delivery through skin, transdermal drug delivery is only used with a small subset of drugs because most compounds cannot cross the skin at therapeutically useful rates. Recently, a new concept known as microneedle was introduced and could be used to pierce effectively to deliver drugs using micron-sized needles in a minimally invasive and painless manner. In this study, the polymer microneedle-roller was fabricated so that it can be applied into the permeation of l-ascorbic acid. Moreover, a recent publication suggested the possibility of ascorbic acid 2-phosphate as a hair restorer; hence, this study was carried out to check the effect of l-ascorbic acid itself on the hair growing rate in rats according to the presence of various application frequencies of the polymer microneedle-roller. When the polymer microneedle-roller was applied nine times with four directions into rat's shaved skin, the permeation of l-ascorbic acid increased by 10.54-fold compared to that of the absence of the polymer microneedle-roller. The histological examination revealed that the skin pretreated with various application frequencies of the polymer microneedle-roller had more transport pathways. The faster hair growing phenomenon was observed in the presence of polymer microneedle-roller compared to the absence of the polymer microneedle-roller.
Effect of microneedle on the pharmacokinetics of ketoprofen from its transdermal formulations.
So JW, Park HH, Lee SS, Kim DC, Shin SC, Cho CW.
College of Pharmacy, Chungnam National University, Daejeon, South Korea.
Non-invasive transdermal delivery using microneedle arrays was recently introduced to deliver a variety of large and hydrophilic compounds into the skin, including proteins and DNA. In this study, a microneedle array was applied to the delivery of a hydrophobic drug, ketoprofen, to determine if transdermal delivery in rats can be improved without the need for permeation enhancers. The ability of a microneedle to increase the skin permeability of ketoprofen was tested using the following procedure. A microneedle array was inserted into the lower back skin of a rat using a clip for 10 min. Subsequently, 24 mg/kg of a ketoprofen gel was loaded on the same site where the microneedle had been applied. Simultaneously, the microneedle was coated with 24 mg/kg of a ketoprofen gel, and inserted into the skin using a clip for 10 min. As a negative control experiment, only 24 mg/kg of the ketoprofen gel was applied to the shaved lower back of a rat. Blood samples were taken at the indicated times. The plasma concentration (C(p)) was obtained as a function of time (t), and the pharmacokinetic parameters were calculated using the BE program. The group loaded with the microneedle coated with ketoprofen gel showed a 1.86-fold and 2.86-fold increase in the AUC and C((max)) compared with the ketoprofen gel alone group. These results suggest that a microneedle can be an ideal tool for transdermal delivery products.
Iíve decided to keep an informal log/series of updates to that Ill post to the thread. Ill be running TNE in Phlojel ultra with 15% DMSO at 50mg/ml. Ill be applying 1ml twice a day after using a 1mm dermal microneedle roller. Following the application Ill be using Penetrate with 10% DMSO to hopefully pick up some extra non absorbed TNE.
Today is day 2 and so far so good. Ive had good pumps in the gym both days and feel good which based on my previous experience with AAS is a good sign things are headed in the right direction.
Also I noticed that the TD is slightly gritty. I compounded it after working it through a mortar and pestle for quite a while so Iím not sure what went wrong. In the future if I attempt this again I may dissolve the TNE in the DMSO first and then add that to the Phlojel.
THanks for posting this: I look forward to your updates. My mind is still reeling about the microdermal thing. Maybe I'll get one and rub it on my forehead with minox and hope some hair grows.
Ive decided to transfer over from the phlogel ultra to 100% dmso to give a comparison. I dissolved 5g of TNE in 50ml of 99% dmso. Ill keep the same protocol of 1ml 2 x a day for a total of 200mg of TNE. Ill also be keeping the dermal roller use before each application to keep all things consistent as possible.
The DMSO/TNE mixture in my opinion is an improvement over the phlojel ultra. After using this combination for a few days I definitely feel like Im on cycle whereas with the phlojel I noticed an improved sense of well being and improved libido but not what I would describe as comparable to previous IM cycles.
Using the dermal roller with 1ml of 99% DMSO has a slight sting, more of an annoyance than a pain and it fades within 5-10min. I mixed the solution with peppermint extract which masks the garlic/oyster smell very well. I haven't tasted any thing or noticed a change in the smell of my breath.
Mixing this solution is far simpler than compounding it in a lotion/gel. The DMSO dissolves the TNE very easily and with a concentration of 100mg/ml I just fill the 1ML dropper and rub it in.
I just wanted to wrap this up as I am into my PCT.
My overall thoughts of the TNE transdermal were good, but I would recommend it only for specific purposes. For me it was a cutting cycle that I wanted to have a low dose of test that I could take with my while I traveled.
While taking a T3/clen combo I gained 5lbs over the course of 6 weeks. I attribute the gains to mostly water but I feel confident that the slight increase of test prevented some of the catabolic affects of the T3. Additionally as I mentioned above I took the combination on several flights (5 domestic and 1 international flight) and never had a problem as DMSO isn't on any controlled or banned substance list.
While transdermal TNE can be affective, I feel that its usefulness is limited in the amount that someone can tolerate and how much is actually absorbed. Its definitely not something for a bulking cycle or and is not cost effective by any means but does have its place under certain conditions.
FWIIW, I agree with your comparison between DMSO and Phlogel ultra. DMSO definitely has higher absorption; I'm guessing DMSO is something like twice as effective. Unfortunately, over time, I developed a sensitivity to it, and it basically makes my skin fall off. Phlogel doesn't have this problem.
I'm getting decent results from 600mg4AD/300mg trenbolone applied daily in phlogel. I plan on trying TNE in phlogel eventually (once the 4AD is gone); I'll probably use a rather larger dose than you did.