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Advice On Routine

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    Advice On Routine


    I dont mean for my first posts to be about others helping with my routine as i plan to stay around to try to learn quite a bit even after this topic goes. However, i guess the first post has to start some where.

    Ill try to give all neccessary info, if i forget something that would help then please let me know. All criticism good and bad is wanted, perferably negative so i know what to improve upon.

    im 19, 6'3 178lbs and hbf 360 says i have 12.2% bf and closest to a mesomorph body type. sophomore at university. Started lifting just to hang out with the guys i met at college and i really did everything half assed. Just used the time in the gym to have fun w/ everyone. In the 2 semesters i lifted, i did make some improvements and gained much more knowledge than i knew before and by the end of the spring semester, i was pretty serious about exercise in nutrition but still alot of my time lifting was wasted. With the summer coming up, i decided i wanted to cut the bf so i could try to have a 6 pack for summer (seeing as my moms fiancee has a pool and my gf has 3 beach houses) so i could look good. However, i feel like a scrawny ***** so im changing my goals to adopt to improving strength and increasing size rather than tone, however if i could keep semi-lean that would be nice but if not then whatever.

    My current routine: I dropped the isolation routines that i was doing before because i feel i can increase frequency. I am now doing a 5 day upper and lower body split. upper, lower, upper, lower, upper Mon-Fri and then weekend rest. I usually do cardio as a warmup, a 2 mile run to the gym and the same run home. I usually dont follow a structured routine once im at the gym, rather pick exercises that i pull from a pool of ideas but i try to hit a muscle group for 8-15 sets per day. I usually do 2 weight exercises for my abs/obliques in a day and then end my gym time with planks and side planks. ALot of my exercises are supersetted too.

    Ex: Monday- upper body
    run to the gym, stretching with light weight for 5 minutes. Then something like:
    DB bench 5x5 supersetting w/ hammer curls 4x8
    Front Pull Down 4x8 suppersetting w/ dips 4x10
    lower back extension machine 4x10
    Weighted oblique bend 4x12 db shrugs 4x10
    Military press 4x8 supersetting with regular curls 4x10
    T-bar row 4x10 supersetting with weighted leg raises
    Closegrip bb bench press 4x10 suppersetting w/ 4x5 skull crushers
    db front raise 4x10
    preacher curl 4x8
    flies 4x8
    Db bent over row 3x10
    tricep extensions 4x8
    planks and side planks

    My diet is pretty clean but is probably a huge problem in the eyes of experienced lifters because as much as i try, i dont think im bringing enough in. It consists of 5-7 varying inconsistant small meals and 4-5 protein shakes. If i added it up, i probably get 130g of protein and under 2000 calories a day. I eat when im up, usually granola, oatmeal, or yogurt with a protein shake. I usually lift in the morning within 2 hours of breakfast and preworkout is usually simply a protein shake (starting a brief trial of no-xplode i got from a friend to see if i liked it). pwo is another protein shake followed 30 mins later by usually a small can of tuna, half a small turkey or chicken sandwhich. After that, i try to drink 2 protein shakes through the course of the day but i struggle to get much else down, a dinner meal of a small salad and whatever the entree is, salmon, ribs, steak, chicken, turkey etc... I have read up about it and think i need to try cycling my carbs, but maybe you guys could give some input about that?

    Supplementing: Multivitamin, Fish oil, Protein w/ bcaas (if u consider it a supp), Melatonin (for sleep purposes), a gram of glutamine in the morning, and sometimes a gram of arginine at night. Also the no-xplode but i will only use that 3 more times before i have to decide if i should buy it or not.

    Gave alot of information i know but any help would be highly appreciative. I have been reading between numerous forums (am,tmag,bb, and ironmag) to gain information although any individual advice would be great. Thanks
    Last edited by hok610; 06-10-2008 at 12:58 PM. Reason: revising

  2. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by hok610 View Post
    i feel like a scrawny ***** so im changing my goals to adopt to improving strength and increasing size rather than tone, however if i could keep semi-lean that would be nice but if not then whatever.
    That would be your first mistake right above. There is no such thing as toning. If you're going to be serious about lifting toward goals, those goals need to be real. You've really got two options: gain muscle and fat; lose musle and fat. Without chemical assistance that's what it boils down to. Also remember strength and size are not synonymous. There are plenty of scrawny guys who can hurl monster weight around. Generally one comes with the other via training so long as the diet is there to support growth.

    My current routine: I dropped the isolation routines that i was doing before because i feel i can increase frequency. I am now doing a 5 day upper and lower body split. upper, lower, upper, lower, upper Mon-Fri and then weekend rest. I usually do cardio as a warmup, a 2 mile run to the gym and the same run home. I usually dont follow a structured routine once im at the gym, rather pick exercises that i pull from a pool of ideas but i try to hit a muscle group for 8-15 sets per day. I usually do 2 weight exercises for my abs/obliques in a day and then end my gym time with planks and side planks. ALot of my exercises are supersetted too.
    What's your reasoning behind this? Physiologically as I recall beyond a few sets you're not doing much of anything but burning calories. Why 8-15 sets, got free time to kill?

    For routines, start simple. Always start simple. Then build on the simple to address needs/weaknesses as they arise. Having a high frequency isn't bad, but are you applying an effective stimulus at each training session? If not, why do it? An overly complex routine starts to make the basics like progression hard to come by and track, and leads to a lot of wasted time, an irregular routine the same. You've got the basic lifts: Squat, deadlift, bench, row, clean and press. A routine structured around progressing the weight upward in those movements will, with the right diet, lead to growth.

    My diet is pretty clean but is probably a huge problem in the eyes of experienced lifters because as much as i try, i dont think im bringing enough in. It consists of 5-7 varying inconsistant
    Inconsistent is bad; consistent is good. Address this problem. Plan your meals. Plan at least a core of meals to guarantee some basic level of calorie intake.

    small meals and 4-5 protein shakes. If i added it up, i probably get 130g of protein and under 2000 calories a day. I eat when im up, usually granola, oatmeal, or yogurt with a protein shake. I usually lift in the morning within 2 hours of breakfast and preworkout is usually simply a protein shake (starting a brief trial of no-xplode i got from a friend to see if i liked it). pwo is another protein shake followed 30 mins later by usually a small can of tuna, half a small turkey or chicken sandwhich. After that, i try to drink 2 protein shakes through the course of the day but i struggle to get much else down, a dinner meal of a small salad and whatever the entree is, salmon, ribs, steak, chicken, turkey etc... I have read up about it and think i need to try cycling my carbs, but maybe you guys could give some input about that?
    Cycling carbs is an advanced technique and if you can't maintain a regular diet what makes you think you can handle carb cycling? You need to get the basics in order. Buy food, buy it in bulk to save money, get calorie dense food, and plan a diet. Don't worry so much about protein grams. Concentrate on overall calories and good food choices and the protein and carbs will come as needed.

    Supplementing: Multivitamin, Fish oil, Protein w/ bcaas
    All good, though the BCAAs are an extra cost you can drop if you want in my opinion.

    , a gram of glutamine in the morning, and sometimes a gram of arginine at night. Also the no-xplode but i will only use that 3 more times before i have to decide if i should buy it or not.
    Reasoning behind these? Unless you're a burn victim or simply love pumps, they really don't do anything. The vast majority of supplements out there are useless concoctions of underdosed products which only show effectiveness in specialized circumstances anyway. If you can afford them and feel like indulging, go right ahead. Otherwise get your basics in order and then worry about getting your test or GH up an extra 0.5-0.7% by eating this or that herb or amino.
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    I agree with most of what you said except the gain muscle and fat thing. Unexperienced or novice lifters can gain muscle and lose fat without drugs. You can do this as long as you are not terribly lean to begin with and eat properly. I can still do this from time to time when i have gotten a little heavier than i like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    That would be your first mistake right above. There is no such thing as toning. If you're going to be serious about lifting toward goals, those goals need to be real. You've really got two options: gain muscle and fat; lose musle and fat. Without chemical assistance that's what it boils down to. Also remember strength and size are not synonymous. There are plenty of scrawny guys who can hurl monster weight around. Generally one comes with the other via training so long as the diet is there to support growth.



    What's your reasoning behind this? Physiologically as I recall beyond a few sets you're not doing much of anything but burning calories. Why 8-15 sets, got free time to kill?

    For routines, start simple. Always start simple. Then build on the simple to address needs/weaknesses as they arise. Having a high frequency isn't bad, but are you applying an effective stimulus at each training session? If not, why do it? An overly complex routine starts to make the basics like progression hard to come by and track, and leads to a lot of wasted time, an irregular routine the same. You've got the basic lifts: Squat, deadlift, bench, row, clean and press. A routine structured around progressing the weight upward in those movements will, with the right diet, lead to growth.



    Inconsistent is bad; consistent is good. Address this problem. Plan your meals. Plan at least a core of meals to guarantee some basic level of calorie intake.



    Cycling carbs is an advanced technique and if you can't maintain a regular diet what makes you think you can handle carb cycling? You need to get the basics in order. Buy food, buy it in bulk to save money, get calorie dense food, and plan a diet. Don't worry so much about protein grams. Concentrate on overall calories and good food choices and the protein and carbs will come as needed.



    All good, though the BCAAs are an extra cost you can drop if you want in my opinion.



    Reasoning behind these? Unless you're a burn victim or simply love pumps, they really don't do anything. The vast majority of supplements out there are useless concoctions of underdosed products which only show effectiveness in specialized circumstances anyway. If you can afford them and feel like indulging, go right ahead. Otherwise get your basics in order and then worry about getting your test or GH up an extra 0.5-0.7% by eating this or that herb or amino.
    To start, Thank you for great post and no im not a burn victim. I simply was going off of what i read and what some people i talk to have said so when i saw a sale or had a little extra money in my pocket, i figured id give things a try to see for myself.

    As for the theory behind the 8-15, i just talked to some one i know who has been pretty serious about lifting for 2 years now or so and said that if i was getting discouraged by doing the same things in and out then i could try making a plan similar to his which was the 5 day upper and lower body splits. From there i just put what was going through my head into a routine and figured 8-15 sets would be enough per muscle group if i stimulate them 2-3 times a week. Obviously from what you are saying, its a suspect idea at best to prematurely formulate my own plan.

    If i had to plan a exact goal, then more fat and more muscle is what i would have to pick. From going with that, i will have to plan meals and foods accordingly i guess like you said not just half assing everything. Good deal.

    Thank you. any other advice?
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    I usually do cardio as a warmup, a 2 mile run to the gym and the same run home.
    Running this much around your lifting will significantly slow your progress in the gym. Ride a bike if you have to, but doing two things that have opposite effects is a great way to get nothing done.

    3-4 compound lifts per session is more than enough for a novice lifter. Get a experienced lifter to help you with your form. Stick with;

    Squats, Bench, Deadlifts, Pull-ups, DB rows, Overhead pressing

    After those if you want to add in a couple single joint movements, ab work, extra low back, sprints, etc...

    Eat meat, veggies, eggs... whole foods, simply work on cutting the crap out. If it comes in a box leave it alone.

    Keep a training log. Trying to outdo yourself is a great motivational tool.

    Most importantly, be consistent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squires View Post
    Running this much around your lifting will significantly slow your progress in the gym. Ride a bike if you have to, but doing two things that have opposite effects is a great way to get nothing done.

    3-4 compound lifts per session is more than enough for a novice lifter. Get a experienced lifter to help you with your form. Stick with;

    Squats, Bench, Deadlifts, Pull-ups, DB rows, Overhead pressing

    After those if you want to add in a couple single joint movements, ab work, extra low back, sprints, etc...

    Eat meat, veggies, eggs... whole foods, simply work on cutting the crap out. If it comes in a box leave it alone.

    Keep a training log. Trying to outdo yourself is a great motivational tool.

    Most importantly, be consistent.
    Great. Thank you for the advice. I will definatly cut out the running then which would be great now that its hitting the high 90's here.

    I dont mean to sound ignorant here or anything so please dont let it sound negatively, but cdb and squires, you guys both said stick to the basic routines, doing these kinds of exercises alone will stimulate each muscle enough for growth? Meaning i dont have to incorporate any other lifts, for instance, than those squires reccomended? Also for doing these kinds of exercises, what kind of frequency should i go for? 3x a week? I mean i am not completely weak or anything, probably nothing like u guys though. #'s for instance would be 40s 3x10 regular hammers and curls, 65s for db bench 3x10, usually db row 65s 3x10 too etc. I really appreciate your guys' time, i am just trying to make sure i understand what is being suggested as its different from what ive been told in the past
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    Let's do a comparison of leg extensions and squats:

    muscles used in the first; the quads

    in the second; well its easier to go with whats not used; arms, pecs, and lats.

    I use this for an example why multi-joint exercises are better use of training time than single-joint.

    Setting up splits: the two options are whole body 3 times a week, or upper/lower 4 times a week.

    For whole body set-up A and B days, each based on 3 lifts a day. Day A; squat, bench and pull-ups. Day B; deadlift, press, and db rows. Each day has a lower body lift, a push, and a pull. This allows for balanced development. Feel free to add a couple more movements at the end, but three big movements should fry you if done properly. 3-5 sets with 5-8 reps in them.

    Upper/Lower split: again set-up A and B days; Mon upper A, Tues lower A, Wed rest, Thurs upper B, Fri lower B. With this split more volume can be done. Do different exercises on A and B days (ie bench day A, db bench day B). For every push there needs to be a pull (ie bench then do pull-ups). Same sets and reps as before, if you add some single joint movements at the end(its ok to do it, just don't make single-joint movements the bulk of your training) higher reps can be used.

    Keep things simple, and a training log is a must.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hok610 View Post
    To start, Thank you for great post and no im not a burn victim. I simply was going off of what i read and what some people i talk to have said so when i saw a sale or had a little extra money in my pocket, i figured id give things a try to see for myself.
    Save some money then, avoid them.

    As for the theory behind the 8-15, i just talked to some one i know who has been pretty serious about lifting for 2 years now or so and said that if i was getting discouraged by doing the same things in and out then i could try making a plan similar to his which was the 5 day upper and lower body splits. From there i just put what was going through my head into a routine and figured 8-15 sets would be enough per muscle group if i stimulate them 2-3 times a week. Obviously from what you are saying, its a suspect idea at best to prematurely formulate my own plan.
    Keep in mind a lot of people in gyms who are serious about lifting aren't necessarily serious about learning what effective lifting techniques are. Not that it's hard, there are a myriad of proven programs out there like West Side and 5x5 developed by people who have succeeded in the field and who have successfully trained other to succeed.

    If i had to plan a exact goal, then more fat and more muscle is what i would have to pick. From going with that, i will have to plan meals and foods accordingly i guess like you said not just half assing everything. Good deal.
    Lots of lean meat and complex carbs. You want to minimize fat gain while maximizing muscle gain. More advice than that, a nutritionism would have to pop in. Generally though eating a 'clean' surplus diet is what's called for. When cutting you'd knoc carbs downor out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hok610 View Post
    I dont mean to sound ignorant here or anything so please dont let it sound negatively, but cdb and squires, you guys both said stick to the basic routines, doing these kinds of exercises alone will stimulate each muscle enough for growth?
    Yes. And, working more muscles at once, they will be more efficient over time. The key to muscle growth is weight progression over time and a proper diet to allow for a calorie surplus. Now that's not to say you can't grow doing a whole bunch of isolation exercises. You can. The point is why bother taking 2 hours to complete what you can in 1 hour? After 3-5 sets you've really gotten all you're going to get out of a workout, so keep i to that.

    Meaning i dont have to incorporate any other lifts, for instance, than those squires reccomended? Also for doing these kinds of exercises, what kind of frequency should i go for? 3x a week? I mean i am not completely weak or anything, probably nothing like u guys though. #'s for instance would be 40s 3x10 regular hammers and curls, 65s for db bench 3x10, usually db row 65s 3x10 too etc. I really appreciate your guys' time, i am just trying to make sure i understand what is being suggested as its different from what ive been told in the past
    Go for two to three times a week along the lines of the splits Squires laid out, those are good approaches. You can always add exercises, but there should be a point to each addition is all. Keep things generally heavy, 8-5 reps per set.
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    Great, thanks so much guys for all the posts. They are all very helpful. ill try to write an actual consistent plan based on what you guys said... for a gym routine and diet and ill post it up to see if its any better.
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    Aight, does this look any better? 4 Day Upper and Lower Split

    Monday: Upper A
    Warmup/Stretch
    -DB Bench Press 5x5
    -Pull Ups 4x ? (15)
    -Iso Bicep Curls 4x8
    -Bent Over Row 4x8
    -Standing Military Press 4x8
    -Chin Ups 4x? (10)

    Tuesday: Lower A
    Warmup/stretch
    -Leg Press 4x8
    -Weighted Leg Raises 4x8
    -Dead Lift 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Clean 4x8
    -Oblique Bend 4x8

    Wednesday: Rest

    Thursday: Upper B
    Warmup/stretch
    -Incline Bench Press 5x5
    -Wide Grip Pull Down 4x8
    -Hammer Curl 4x8
    -Close Grip Bench Press 4x8
    -Upright Row 4x8

    Friday: Lower B
    Warmup/stretch
    -Squats 4x8
    -Decline Weighted Sit-up 3x15
    -Dumbbell Lunges 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Weighted Crunch 4x8
    -Dumbbell Step-ups 4x8

    Tried to incorporate everything that you guys said with the compound exercises and squires recommendations for reps and sets. Let me know how that looks
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    CDB, you said earlier my first problem is that i need a specific goal. I understand i cant do something to do both, mass gain muscle and mass drop bf, however; would these be fair goals to strive for? Current weight 178, BF 12.2%

    Short-term goal: By September 2, 2008, I would like to get my weight to 190 at 10% bf. I will attempt this by cycling 2 week surplus, 1 week deficit and cardio until September 2nd.

    Long-term goal: By May 1, 2009, I would like to get my weight up to 210lbs at 8.5%. I will attempt this by bulking up until mid-March. From mid-march until may 1, i will start cutting to reach my bf goal.

    Or are those to specific and unrealistic?

    *if all this is reasonable, the routine and the goals, then i am going to get my meal plan set and start a log for everything starting Monday. short term goal maybe to much to hope for because that is similar to hoping for mass increase and decrease at the same time. I have read people saying that the surplus shouldn't be that high that its quite a noticeable difference. If thats the case, then hardcore physical activity for a week with lifting and a deficit... could it be possible?*
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    I would use 5x5 for squat and bench and 3x5 for deadlift. I would deadlift first on lower day 2, and squat first on lower day 1. I would not use 5x5 for dumbell pressing. I would do my close grips after my incline. These are personal preferences mostly and ways i thing that you will get the most out of the exercises. My preference is to pick one weight and complete all your sets with it and then move up 5 or 10 lbs the next week. I also would not kill a bodypart twice a week meaning i would proaby do an incline barbell bench for 5x5 one day and the other upper day i would do an dumbell bench for 2x12 followed by close grips for 3x10. I think most people make the mistake of trying to take every exercise to failure every week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hok610 View Post
    Aight, does this look any better? 4 Day Upper and Lower Split

    Monday: Upper A
    Warmup/Stretch
    -barbell incline Press 5x5
    -Chin Ups 4x? (10)
    -Bent Over Row 3x10
    -Standing Military Press 3x8
    -Iso Bicep Curls 3x8
    -tri pushdowns 3x15


    Tuesday: Lower A
    Warmup/stretch
    -squats 5x5
    -Clean 4x8
    -some kind of hamstring work
    -Weighted Leg Raises 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Oblique Bend 4x8

    Wednesday: Rest

    Thursday: Upper B
    Warmup/stretch
    -flat dumbell bench 2x12
    -close grips 3x10
    -pullup
    -rear delts 3x12
    -side lateral raises 3x12



    Friday: Lower B
    Warmup/stretch
    -deads 3x5
    -leg press 3x20
    -Dumbbell Lunges 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Weighted Crunch 4x8
    -Dumbbell Step-ups 4x8

    Tried to incorporate everything that you guys said with the compound exercises and squires recommendations for reps and sets. Let me know how that looks

    THis is more my style. More do to personal preference. I also like using one weight like i explained above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    I would use 5x5 for squat and bench and 3x5 for deadlift. I would deadlift first on lower day 2, and squat first on lower day 1. I would not use 5x5 for dumbell pressing. I would do my close grips after my incline. These are personal preferences mostly and ways i thing that you will get the most out of the exercises. My preference is to pick one weight and complete all your sets with it and then move up 5 or 10 lbs the next week. I also would not kill a bodypart twice a week meaning i would proaby do an incline barbell bench for 5x5 one day and the other upper day i would do an dumbell bench for 2x12 followed by close grips for 3x10. I think most people make the mistake of trying to take every exercise to failure every week.
    Monday: Upper A
    Warmup/Stretch
    **-DB Bench Press 2x12**
    **-Close Grip Bench Press 3x10**
    -Pull Ups 4x ? (15)
    -Iso Bicep Curls 4x8
    -Bent Over Row 4x8
    -Standing Military Press 4x8
    -Chin Ups 4x? (10)

    Tuesday: Lower A
    Warmup/stretch
    **-Squat 5x5**
    -Leg Press 4x8
    -Weighted Leg Raises 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Clean 4x8
    -Oblique Bend 4x8

    Wednesday: Rest

    Thursday: Upper B
    Warmup/stretch
    -Incline Bench Press 5x5
    -Wide Grip Pull Down 4x8
    -Hammer Curl 4x8
    -Upright Row 4x8

    Friday: Lower B
    Warmup/stretch
    **-Dead Lift 3x5**
    -Decline Weighted Sit-up 3x15
    -Dumbbell Lunges 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Weighted Crunch 4x8
    -Dumbbell Step-ups 4x8

    As for weight recommendations, i stick to the same weight for everything too. I try to get something that ill get within a rep or 2 of exhaustion on the last set and just stick to that through every set. This is what you would suggest? ** are the alternations i made based on your post
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    THis is more my style. More do to personal preference. I also like using one weight like i explained above.
    I see. Thats a great help. Thanks. I tried reposting with the changes, guess at the same time you did. I already mentioned weight, i think we are similar in that aspect. I also like how you added the tri push down. i wanted to add something like that, but didn't know if that contribute to too much or not.
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    What you laid out looks good. It would be better to have the cleans on the deadlift day. Cleans then go to deads, saves time, and they are mechanically similar (the first half of the clean is just a fast dead). Keep the reps low on cleans, low reps are better for developing power. You will only need 1-3 sets of deads by putting both lifts on the same day. Always pay attention to form on every lift.

    Get lifting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squires View Post
    What you laid out looks good. It would be better to have the cleans on the deadlift day. Cleans then go to deads, saves time, and they are mechanically similar (the first half of the clean is just a fast dead). Keep the reps low on cleans, low reps are better for developing power. You will only need 1-3 sets of deads by putting both lifts on the same day. Always pay attention to form on every lift.

    Get lifting.
    I will get lifting, hopefully tomorrow. I think i have mono, which is blowing because i feel like **** and completely weak. Which is why right now, i have so much extra time. Focus on form too, got it

    Kk so mixing the 2 posts of advice together:

    Monday: Upper A
    Warmup/Stretch
    -barbell incline Press 5x5
    -Chin Ups 4x? (10)
    -Bent Over Row 3x10
    -Standing Military Press 3x8
    -Iso Bicep Curls 3x8
    -tri pushdowns 3x15


    Tuesday: Lower A
    Warmup/stretch
    -squats 5x5
    -some kind of hamstring work
    -Weighted Leg Raises 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Oblique Bend 4x8

    Wednesday: Rest

    Thursday: Upper B
    Warmup/stretch
    -flat dumbell bench 2x12
    -close grips 3x10
    -pullup
    -rear delts 3x12
    -side lateral raises 3x12



    Friday: Lower B
    Warmup/stretch
    **-Clean 4x5**
    **-deads 2x5**
    -leg press 3x20
    -Dumbbell Lunges 4x8
    -Calf Rises 4x8
    -Weighted Crunch 4x8
    -Dumbbell Step-ups 4x8

    ** edit** Should i consider swapping lunges or step-ups from b to a day? just to balance it out more since it seems theres only 3 exercises that arent abs on A and 5 on B? or doesnt it really matter? And I am assuming since no one commented, doing 2 weighted ab exercises on lower day is fine
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    Quote Originally Posted by hok610 View Post
    ** edit** Should i consider swapping lunges or step-ups from b to a day? just to balance it out more since it seems theres only 3 exercises that arent abs on A and 5 on B? or doesnt it really matter? And I am assuming since no one commented, doing 2 weighted ab exercises on lower day is fine
    Swapping? Don't overthink everything, both are good lifts, just pick one.

    Squats, deads and cleans will ad more to your ab strength than most common "ab" exercises. The primary action of the trunk muscles is to stabilize the spine, not flexion(crunch movement). Planks (push-up position, but on the elbows) held for time are good indicator of preparedness for lifting (greater than 30sec). Ab wheels are fantastic, and cheap. Buy one if your gym doesn't have one.

    Get healthy.
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    Great, Thanks. I will stop trying to over think everything and try to write up a meal plan while i'm down.
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    Everything looks good. Keep me updated, i want to know how it goes. Maybe start a training log so we can see your progress. You will get alot of feedback that way as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    Everything looks good. Keep me updated, i want to know how it goes. Maybe start a training log so we can see your progress. You will get alot of feedback that way as well.
    Ok. That sounds like a plan. I will plan to start logging monday assuming i can get myself out of bed. Thanks for all your help again.
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    I will start a log but i haven't been able to really goto the gym this week though because i am still weak as hell and mostly bed ridden. Also, i leave Sunday for the outer banks with my friends family. I am going to start logging it when i get back from that though. Hopefully it will go well. Thanks again to those who helped out.
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    cool, i started a log as well, I figure if i am going to dish out training advice, you should at least be able to see who is dishing it.
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