Full body workout VS. 3 Day Split

[frezel]

:dance: :smite: hey guys,

i have been doing a 3 day split chest/tri, back/bi, shoulder/legs and recently under advice of someone i changed over to a full body workout and dont feel as good as i did on the 3 day split.
i have been only doing it for about 2 weeks and maybe im not giving it enought time. what is your guys thoughts on full body training? do u like it or recemend i go back to the 3 day split.

here is what im doing for full body
Monday:
Military Press
Bench Press
Bent-over Row
Barbell Curl
Triceps Extension
Parallel Squat
Standing Calf Raise
Deadlift
Crunch

Wednesday:
Alternating Dumbbell Military Press
Parallel Bar Dip
Pull-up
Alternating Dumbbell Curl
Triceps Extension Bench Press
Front Squat
Seated Calf Raise
Back Raise
Hanging Leg-raise

Friday:
Upright Row
Incline Press
One-arm Dumbbell Row
Concentration Curl
Lying Triceps Extension
Dumbbell Lunge
Standing Calf Raise
Deadlift
Sit-up

Should i do each of these routines heavy? im trying to gain size? i am doing roughly 3 sets about 8-10 reps each exercise.

im also coming off the superpump, hypershock high too, i wonder if that has alot to do with it? this is the first month all im taking is Eass's and some creatine ethyl ester. Anyway letme hear what u guys think about full body routines vs split body

 

[thesinner]

Do only ONE "working set", the other two should be warmups and not challenging. You're not working out to kill your muscle, you just want enough to tell your body "you are small".

Instead of doing 8-10 reps, try changing your reps every other week. Example: 2 weeks @ 12 reps, 2 weeks @ 8-10, 2 weeks @ 6 reps.

If you want to keep at a constant 8-10 reps, try changing up the tempo in which you are performing your reps.

Reason I suggest changing up the reps or tempo is because your body will learn to "pace" itself and become more efficient. If size is your goal, efficiency is NOT DESIRED.

 

[frezel]

thanks for the inf, but what do u guys think of actual full body training, is it effective to build size?i feel abit sceptical about this routine, and if im only really doing one hard working set thats even less exercising that i have been doing, maybe i was over training before?

 

[thesinner]

There's actually a lot of pro's who train full body 3x per week.

What do you do on your off days? The reason I ask is because I like to run on my off days, and I've found that with full body 3x per week, my legs never get a chance to recover. I think this should be the deciding factor on whether or not you go full body or a 3-day split.

 

[frezel]

yeah my legs are getting kicked big time, i have just been sucking up the pain, exspecially my calves they kill me. hey , thesinner if im doing 3 sets of say bench press for example and i can bench like 225 10x's, and u say to do a warm up sets for the first 2, should i do something like

set 1 145 x 12
set 2 145 x 10
than max out? or do 225 like 8 - 10x's?

Were u saying that only one of the sets i should go big
:

 

[thesinner]

yeah my legs are getting kicked big time, i have just been sucking up the pain, exspecially my calves they kill me. hey , thesinner if im doing 3 sets of say bench press for example and i can bench like 225 10x's, and u say to do a warm up sets for the first 2, should i do something like

set 1 145 x 12
set 2 145 x 10
than max out? or do 225 like 8 - 10x's?

Were u saying that only one of the sets i should go big
:

Because you are training to build muscle mass/size, only 1 set is needed. Several studies have been done comparing 1 set vs. 3 sets. 3 sets greatly improves strength, but compared to 1 set shows no added benefits in building muscle. Believe it or not, increased strength may actually constrict your ability to build muscle mass. That's why you'll see a big bodybuilder who benches the same weight as a powerlifter half his size.


For your warm up and working sets go like this:
1st set: 10 reps with a weight you could easily do for 20
2nd set: 8-10 reps with a weight you could do for 15
work set: 8-10 reps to a "sticking point"

*Sticking point: this is a part in your motion where you despite how hard you push, the weight will not budge. For example, on the bench press this usually occurs when you're arms are bent at about 90 degrees.

 

[Movin_weight]

i like the full body 3x week routine... in about 2 months my back and shoulders have blown up

but i haven't seen alot of growth in my legs or arms... i'v decided this is due to overtraining so i'v recently dropped the amount of sets i do for both, we'll see if this helps

 

[frezel]

movin _weight how many sets are you doing and what does your full body routine consist of?

the sinner thanks again for al your help, ill keep at this for a month to see what it does, i really needto get my diet in shape as well.

 

[Irish Cannon]

How about split it up into two workouts, and then train everything 2x a week. That's what I was doing for my last routine, and it worked real well. 10 sets for each body part, two of which were warmups.

Mon = Back/Bis/Legs/Traps
Tue = Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Calves

Thur = Same as Mon but different exercises
Fri = Same as Tue but different exercises

 

[Movin_weight]

My routine is not that strict... i just make sure that I rotate which bodypart I start with, and make sure i hit a core lift for each muscle group

So one day i'll start with Military press, 2 days later i'll start with squats, 2 days later i'll start with bent rows ect...

I make sure i hit at least 1 core lift per bodypart x2 working sets of 8-10 reps... Then i'll usually superset 1-2 secondary lifts for each bodypart for 3x10

keep in mind I do this all in an hour or less so i'm usually haulin azz around the gym...

I may start hitting legs only twice a week since i don't think they are getting enough rest, especially when i add in cardio on some off days

main lifts consist of:
deadlifts
incline Bench
Bent over rows
Squats
Military press

Secondary lifts:
Lat pulldown/pullups
hack squat
flys
shrugs
dumbell raises
dumbell rows
leg raises

 

[Gutterpump]

I make sure i hit at least 1 core lift per bodypart x2 working sets of 8-10 reps... Then i'll usually superset 1-2 secondary lifts for each bodypart for 3x10

Movin, I'm doing the same routine as you and noticed the same effects, my back and shoulders blew up, I'm a lot wider, but my chest and arms stayed the same this way (but have gotten harder). I think it's over-training as well maybe, it's just weird getting used to the routine and doing fewer sets because I don't feel as though I'm hitting all the angles I could by doing more sets spread across different excercises vs hitting simply flat bench one day, incline db next day, etc.

 

[Movin_weight]

yeah i agree it takes a while to get used, some times i even sneak in the gym on an off day to hit some isolation lifts just because 2 days is so long to wait! lol

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm good at staying away on my off days, but I think I might be doing too many sets right now on my on days.

Here's an example of wht I would do for chest:

I usually do 1 warmup set. then 2 working sets of a core lift like Incline Bench - then I do 1 set of db flies (lower than 50% of 1repmax though, for reps) - then I do 1 set of cable flies - then 1 set of (not sure what it's called, hold DB's tight together over chest, and press for reps) to work inner chest. I'm trying to do all this so I can get more chest definition (and more size in my inner/upper chest) since I don't think simply doing bench will properly work the pecs. Might be my downfall atm though, but I'm trying to keep the weight low on the isolations so maybe it will be ok.

 

[camaroguy18]

Just for reference, I've trained full body 3x a week since high school (so around 8 years now) and have found that when taking a break from it, it takes a few weeks to get the endurance back up to a point where I can make it through all lifts, and all sets.

My routine is typically as follows:
(Note, when I list two, they are lifts that alternate from one to the other each week)

Flat Bench/Incline D-bells
Rows/Lat pulldown
Dips (weighted)
Pull ups (weighted)
Squats
Butterfly
Preacher curls/hammer curls
Tris (with the rope pulldown)
Shoulder press
Shrugs
Hamstring curl
Calf raise
Abs and lower back

All lifts are done in a 'drop set' manner - so I start off with the max weight that I can lift 7-8 reps. Then I drop weight each consecutive set and go to failure each set (usually 3-5 sets).

I'm sure many of you will think this is over excessive, and granted my workouts do take a few hours-- but in all honesty my body and mind are accustomed to the routine and in the past I have tried to split days...only to revert back to this method.

 

[Gutterpump]

Do only ONE "working set", the other two should be warmups and not challenging. You're not working out to kill your muscle, you just want enough to tell your body "you are small".

I am assuming that with this method (only 1 working set), that you must work to failure on that set.

A normal HST routine is 3 sets of equal volume.

I find I'm training different groups differently now though (diff # of sets):

I usually start with legs (lower weight on each):

3 set of squats
2 sets leg extentions
2 sets of hamstring curls
on some days I do leg press
calf raises

then shoulders:

2 sets of clean and press
2 sets of hammer strength machine press

Chest:

2 sets flat or incline bench
1 set db flies
1 set cable flies
sometimes I do a set of seated machine flies

Tris:

dropset usually till failure or close - pushdowns

Back:

2 sets - seated cable pulls
2 sets - lat pulldown or close grip pulldown

Bi's:

2 sets - olympic BB curls
1 set - hammer curls

Lower Back:

cable trunk rotations
4 sets

Abs

4+ sets


Don't know if this is overtraining, going to see how it works out but I'm open to any tweaks / comments on it.

 

[Jim Mills]

I may start this full body workout Saturday.... I'm going to do Legs and Abs on Mondays.... I'm going to try it for 8 weeks, then switch it up.

Saturday

Inc DB flys 3 sets for 8 reps

Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 sets 8 reps

Machine Row 3 sets 8 reps

ez-bar Curls 3 sets 8 reps

Triceps cable Push Downs 3 sets 8 reps


Tuesday

Bench Press 3 sets 8 reps

Side DB Raises 3 sets 8 reps

Wide Grip Pulldowns 3 sets 8 reps

Incline DB curls 3 sets 8 reps

Rope pressdowns 3 sets 8 reps


Thursday

seated machine Flys 3 sets 8 reps

Bent over DB raises 3 sets 8 reps

Bent over BB rows 3 sets 8 reps

hammer curls 3 sets 8 reps

close grip bench 3 sets 8 reps

 

[SteelEntity]

My problem with full body routines is that by the time you get to your last couple body parts you are already burnt out,and not able to lift to near the intensity as you did for your first few body parts. If you change it around every other workout I guess that would help.

 

[camaroguy18]

My problem with full body routines is that by the time you get to your last couple body parts you are already burnt out,and not able to lift to near the intensity as you did for your first few body parts. If you change it around every other workout I guess that would help.

that's why I save abs/lower back and some of the smaller muscle groups for the end....I couldn't imagine benching or squatting at the end of a workout!

 

[Movin_weight]

yeah rotating what you begin with each day solves that prob, but i'v had days where i'd squat, then bench, then hit rows... and since your keeping the volume down, my lifts didn't really suffer

 

[frezel]

i did this full body 2 weeks and i know thats not enough to get anythning going , but i feel like switching form the 3 day i lost alot of pump feel, and soreness, im not sure i like this! I feeel as if though i am on vacation from working out, but at the gym im busting my arse!!!! is this normal, i might have to go back to 3 day im so confused.....

 

[camaroguy18]

i did this full body 2 weeks and i know thats not enough to get anythning going , but i feel like switching form the 3 day i lost alot of pump feel, and soreness, im not sure i like this! I feeel as if though i am on vacation from working out, but at the gym im busting my arse!!!! is this normal, i might have to go back to 3 day im so confused.....

do you lift with a partner? It's very difficult to full body train your muscles into fatigue to the point that they'll be sore the next day without one

...my old partner has 'found the light' in smoking pot and no longer lifts, so my workouts have been ****ty as of late with no partner

 

[Gutterpump]

do you lift with a partner? It's very difficult to full body train your muscles into fatigue to the point that they'll be sore the next day without one

If you can't train to failure in one set during a fullbody workout, just add more volume. 3 or 4 working sets w/lower weight should do it. Just like an HST routine. Just make sure to change up # of reps every 2 weeks and work with a progressive load. You have to be careful not to overtrain like this though.

 

[frezel]

ive come to the conclusion i have no clue how to train , and honestly keep changing my routine, i am overweight and starting to notice myself get skinnier but also see all my hard training disappear or so it seams, i understand im leaning out but i like my bigger look, i wanted to be skinny but built, seems like i have to lift heavier and do more cardio. i cant stand this belly of mine, if i could cut it off i would be cool, rest of me is great....I have a hard time with eating less calories to lose weight and than when i train i feel like i need to eat alot to get big, its a horrible cycle in my head. I hate cardio and really need to get that going... or ill never lose this spare tire. As far as traiing here are my goals ... im 5'11, 207lbs about 30%body fat according to online calculators, i hate to say 30 cause i feel like its less, really all i have is a belly. rest of me s pretty tone. i want to get to about 190 and up my size/mass, naturally, i have lots of friends at gym and they tell me that i will never get to where i want to be with out the assistance of roids, but i know it can be done naturally. Is there a way to train that i can get big and how do i eat to get skinner but bigger.All seems very tricky to me

 

[Gutterpump]

To be honest, what I did was basically train twice a day, 5 days a week (cardio in am, workout in pm - workout was a 5-day split, strength training mostly but with lots of compound excercises). This is what I did when I first started out. I got bigger and noticeably leaner. Have you tried this before?

I'm liking the 3-day fullbody workout now because I feel like it's more of an intense workout and ramps up my metabolism, but it's harder to fine-tune since overtraining is easy like this, which can halt your gains. I think if you can tweak it right for you so you're not overtraining, and then doing ab work/core excercises on your offdays with a bit of morning cardio, then it can work well for you. This is the direction I'm going in now since I am in the same boat as you. A lot of it is cleaning up the diet though as well.

 

[Gutterpump]

ps: If you want to eat to get leaner, but bigger, do a search for the anabolic diet (aka CKD diet)

 

[Movin_weight]

i agree, i love the intesity of the full body training and the full body pump, the secret is fine tuning so your incorporating all the major muscle groups equally

 

[EasyEJL]

I think I will only do hard full body workouts again if i'm on gear.

 

[Movin_weight]

yeah i'm a young gun and the doms are still frickin unreal sometimes... these last 2 weeks have been the first that i'v done this routine completely natural, no natty testboosters, PH, or anything... just protein and a little creatine and i'll admit i'm in pain some days

 

[frezel]

is novadex xt a good supp to take thats somewhat natural? Ok i guess ill try this full body again and try to find tune it, currently im on creatine ethyl mixed with EAA's and whey protein thats it

 

[SteelEntity]

Novedex XT is used for pct, using it alone would not do much good.

Whoever it was who said they were 30% BF and only have a chubby mid section... theres no way its that high. 30% is not just a little chunky, but noticeably fat.

 

[EasyEJL]

in theory novedex xt will raise your testosterone by decreasing the amount that aromatizes to estrogen. so it can work outside of pct. its still not really "natural" in that respect

 

[nelix]

I do something like:
1/6/1/6/12

 

[bound]

I do full body three days a week, but I change up my reps/sets each day. So Monday I might do 8-10 sets of three, Wednesday 5x5, Friday 3sets of 8-10. I just pick three heavy, basic compound movements for each day, one leg, one pushing, one pulling. Then I just add in whatever I'm concentrating on that week. Like this week it's been shoulders, so after the three main exercises, I've been doing a couple sets of a couple shoulder exercises. Next week it might be arms.

Now this works well for me, I'm an ecto, and I don't need a ton of volume. On top of that, one of my jobs is loading trucks overnight for UPS. That's four hours of crazy GPP work five nights a week. My volume stays low, cause I already need 5,000+ cals a day to gain.

 

[Movin_weight]

i switched from the full-body 3times per week to a 3-bodypart split 4 days per week... and within 2.5 weeks i started making strength gains

so instead of hitting everthing 3 days out of the week i'm hitting back/shoulders/tri's, then back/legs/bi's, 2-3days rest, and repeat

I started experiencing symptoms of overtraining after about 2months of the full-body routine... gains haulted, lost some strength, worn out and lethargic all the time... this switch definately was what i needed

Full body was nice for a little while but ended up being too much stress on the CNS for me and not enough recovery time in-between lifting days... although my intensity and volume was prob too high to begin with

 

[LatSpread]

a split routine, whether 3 or 4x/week is going to be much better than any full body routine.

 

[AM07]

a split routine, whether 3 or 4x/week is going to be much better than any full body routine.

Depends what your goals are. From an athletic performance standpoint, FB trumps over the traditional BB routine.

 

[asianbabe]

Full body workouts are really tough. I love them, but it hampers recovery but cardio sucks hard since you are recovering from your leg workouts all the time. I prefer to do a five day split now with two leg days.

 

[SteelEntity]

I don't even get the point of these polls. Everyones different, you need to try them for yourself, or you will just be second guessing your efforts at the gym.

 

[pantera101]

I don't even get the point of these polls. Everyones different, you need to try them for yourself, or you will just be second guessing your efforts at the gym.

Very true.I've been doing mainly split routines for over a year cause thats what bb's do(the majority anyway).I like changing things up and I'm starting to realize that full body wo's seem to be best for me.I just started doing full body wo's again but with a twist,I'm going to do upper body on mon. and thurs. and legs on tues. and fri.This way i can get a real leg wo instead of just ass to grass sq's.I think part of the beuty with full body wo's is you can focus on the basic heavy compound lifts, and you keep things short and sweet.(avoids overtraing)Imo you should never just stick to one type of training for too long though.

 

[j0sh710]

ya i have always been interested in this, i have done full body workouts for about a week then just decided to go back to split routines.

so most bodybuilders use full body workouts?

 

[pantera101]

no most hit one or two body parts a day and very few (ronnie coleman) will hit each muscle twice a week using split routines.usually one in the early day and then later.but most hit one or two muscle groups at a time and then again 5 to 7 days later.

 

[SteelEntity]

I'm curious to see if I could work each body part twice a week while on gear. I know I can't do it naturally. Calves responded well to twice a week.

 

[pantera101]

some bb's lift twice a week for a lagging bodypart only and usually one at a time.One popular way is to lift heavy one day of the week and then go for the pump the next. i've read that ronnie colemans two back wo's for the week are divided into one for thickness and one for width,and some pros have started following that for bringing up their backs and it worked for them.But pros are on a whole different level genetics and drug wise.Not many people, even pros can do a split routine and hit muscles twice and still recover.I'd like to clarify when i say you can keep a full body wo short and sweet,i mean the actual wo for 1 muscle.If youre doing a three day a week full body wo, you can do inc bench on mon flat on wed and decl or dips or inc again(to bring up upper chest) on fri bb rows on mon pullups on wed and deads on fri etc.I do no more than 3 work sets.with a split routine youd do all those lifts and maybe then some in one wo.youre definately right about the gear thing that might let you get away with it.It seems most peoples calves respond better to two or three times a week and higher reps,unless they were born with bigger calves,but once again i read all the time and strongly agree that you should always change things up every now and then.

 

[j0sh710]

from what i just read that you said pantera i think it would be good for me to do a 3 days a week, workout doing 2-3 body parts a day then do low reps one week 6-8 3 sets and high reps next week maybe 10-15 3-5 sets

 

[Dadof2]

At the very least doing a full body routine would be a good break from your usual training regimine.

 

[Jim Mills]

At the very least doing a full body routine would be a good break from your usual training regimine.

I started doing this....
4 day split for 8 weeks
(M) chest
(T) arms
(W) off
(T) Back
(F) off
(S) Shoulders & Legs
(S) off
Then take a week off and move to a full body workout for 8 weeks (3 days a week)... Then repeat.
I'm going to try this for a few months and see how it goes.

 

[j0sh710]

there are so many different approaches to body building i wish that i could just know how to do everything perfect, like the best everything.

 

[pantera101]

from what i just read that you said pantera i think it would be good for me to do a 3 days a week, workout doing 2-3 body parts a day then do low reps one week 6-8 3 sets and high reps next week maybe 10-15 3-5 sets

theres thousands of ways to train and none within reason are wrong.I did something similar to this but i was doing 4 sets of4 one week and then 2-3 sets of 15-20 next.It's usually suggested to do less sets with higher reps.I was also hitting every muscle at each workout m,w,and fri.Not telling you to do this, its just what i did at one point.youre obvisouly here to learn, as am i, and probably everyone else.So just to let you know my favorite web site to read,learn,and to be reminded of things i should do but sometimes get away from, is t-nation.com.They post 1 or 2 new articles mon-fri and you can go to the article library? to read old ones.

 

[pantera101]

there are so many different approaches to body building i wish that i could just know how to do everything perfect, like the best everything.

thats cool you said that after my last post

 

[pantera101]

edit..... i wast typing while you said that